Graal Forums  

Go Back   Graal Forums > Development Forums > Level Design
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-18-2009, 08:32 PM
Pimmeh Pimmeh is offline
Rgesitreed Uesr
Pimmeh's Avatar
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
Posts: 1,586
Pimmeh has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Pimmeh Send a message via MSN to Pimmeh
My level

Hey everyone, seeing as people were complaining about the lack of activity and new levels here, I was gonna post a level that i have more or less completed recently.

I'd like some constructive criticism (that means NOT just: "You do this wrong" I have my own style, suggestions please) on it before I add in images and the like...

Oh, its for a playerworld project, so there is still some flaws in the tileset.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	graal.png
Views:	253
Size:	158.1 KB
ID:	47184  
__________________
Oh, Death,
No wealth, no ruin, no silver, no gold
Nothing satisfies me but your soul
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-18-2009, 11:13 PM
Luda Luda is offline
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,071
Luda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to Luda
That's a church right? Could have another roof on top of it with a cross on it and I noticed that there is only one set of steps and it's on the higher set of cliffs
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-18-2009, 11:49 PM
maximus_asinus maximus_asinus is offline
RIP DarkCloud_PK
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,746
maximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond repute
I noticed that you're missing the corner pieces when you're connecting different grass and sand tiles, and when you're doing diagonal cliffing. I attached an example with some of the parts I'm talking about.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	graal.png
Views:	164
Size:	233.3 KB
ID:	47185  
__________________
Save Classic!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-18-2009, 11:51 PM
maximus_asinus maximus_asinus is offline
RIP DarkCloud_PK
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,746
maximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond reputemaximus_asinus has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luda View Post
only one set of steps and it's on the higher set of cliffs
There is a cave door on the lower and middle part of the cliff, I assume they connect.
__________________
Save Classic!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-19-2009, 02:03 AM
Loriel Loriel is offline
Somewhat rusty
Loriel's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,059
Loriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimmeh View Post
Hey everyone, seeing as people were complaining about the lack of activity and new levels here, I was gonna post a level that i have more or less completed recently.
I think the level is pretty neat. There is a simple overall design with a decent amount of detail, and I can see everything fitting together and into a larger overworld. I would expect to see some trees separate from the forest mass, but I realise they would not fit in anywhere on this level, so maybe elsewhere.

Are the tiles leading up to the lower cave entrance blocking? It seems a bit counterintuitive to make the path you are expecting people to take look so obstructed. Also the two cave entrances being on the same y coordiante is a bit strange-looking, considering you expect the physically-lower one to be visually-lower as well if they are so close together. Props for the actual use of caves and multiple levels of elevation, though, caves are cool.

Is the line of mud at the bottom a path? I am used to seeing the "flatter" grass/mud transitions used for paths so I would feel awkward actually using that path, but I am not sure whether those are available on your tileset. Also it is a bit warped, who walks like that?

I do not like the building. The roof should extend somewhat beyond the wall, and for the windows being so fancy, the wall and especially the hole (does not even look like a door, to me) looks awfully plain. I guess you might be fixing both of those by adding NPCs at a later stage, though.

Quote:
I'd like some constructive criticism (that means NOT just: "You do this wrong" I have my own style, suggestions please) on it before I add in images and the like...
That line is just arrogant as hell and makes you look like a huge jerk, in my opinion. Trust me, I am pretty knowledgable about either.

Preemptively attacking those you might criticise you, and also using the "it is my style defense" before anyone even criticised your style, are just signals that you are not even really interested in critique.

Quote:
Oh, its for a playerworld project, so there is still some flaws in the tileset.
I really dislike the tileset overall, I do not think the colors are fitting together well at all and all the contrast and oversaturated stuff is pretty distracting (depending on the sprites you use, I guess).

I do not think the cliff tiles are tall enough, especially if there are caves in them (can characters even fit through them?), and they look way too right-angled relative to the ground, even more so considering that there are apparently stairs leading up on them. The level of detail and contrast on the cliffs (tiny, pale yellowish bricks) makes them stand out from the Graal/Zelda-style grass and trees design (with bushes and trees and rocks that are basically huge blobs, with detail drawn on, and glowingly green). The grass being darker and more saturated than the cliffs is somewhat offputting too.

The grass/grass and grass/mud transitions do not seem quite polished enough to me, but that might be because you omitted the corner tiles. The mud itself is a bit too repetitive, I think, and seems to be lacking the standard tileset random variations with rocks and everything.

Sorry for going on about the tileset so much when you posted in the levels and not the graphics forum, but I think I would like your level more if it was in the default tileset.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:03 AM
Luda Luda is offline
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,071
Luda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to Luda
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus_asinus View Post
There is a cave door on the lower and middle part of the cliff, I assume they connect.
oh nvm

holy crap loriel
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:18 AM
Loriel Loriel is offline
Somewhat rusty
Loriel's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,059
Loriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luda View Post
holy crap loriel
What did I do wrong now?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:22 AM
Soala Soala is offline
Ideas on Fire
Soala's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In my head
Posts: 3,208
Soala is a jewel in the roughSoala is a jewel in the rough
Jesus, I love the swamp tiles !

It's a really nice idea to put a church on some cliffs, I bet there is a dungeon deep there !
Nice level, it can't really look bad with that tileset (from Ardeo right?)

I suggest you add some water (cliffs or paths) to the level, to make it more colorfull and enjoyable =)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:27 AM
Loriel Loriel is offline
Somewhat rusty
Loriel's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,059
Loriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandralove View Post
It's a really nice idea to put a church on some cliffs, I bet there is a dungeon deep there !
All the cool churches are built upon ancient indian burial mounds.

Quote:
I suggest you add some water (cliffs or paths) to the level, to make it more colorfull and enjoyable =)
For the love of Galen, do not do this. Not every level has to range from the sea to the mountains.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:39 AM
Soala Soala is offline
Ideas on Fire
Soala's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In my head
Posts: 3,208
Soala is a jewel in the roughSoala is a jewel in the rough
Well then, have another suggestion maybe? Water fits with everything

Maybe add a sign to notice people about the way, etc... ?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:52 AM
Loriel Loriel is offline
Somewhat rusty
Loriel's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,059
Loriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandralove View Post
Well then, have another suggestion maybe? Water fits with everything

Maybe add a sign to notice people about the way, etc... ?
My suggestion is not adding water.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:55 AM
Soala Soala is offline
Ideas on Fire
Soala's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In my head
Posts: 3,208
Soala is a jewel in the roughSoala is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
My suggestion is not adding water.
Okay
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-19-2009, 08:28 AM
Pimmeh Pimmeh is offline
Rgesitreed Uesr
Pimmeh's Avatar
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
Posts: 1,586
Pimmeh has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Pimmeh Send a message via MSN to Pimmeh
I am gonna force to let my graphics guy (Codein <3) read your post, Loriel, seeing as I have no graphic knowledge and will not be able to change much of it.
The criticism part was not meant to be arrogant, I just.... Well, sometimes people presume that their style is the only working one, and that has been the reason I am reluctant to posting here.

Oh, and Maximus, those corner tiles are left out on purpose (except for on the cliffs, better fix that. The grass has the corner tiles, but it looks way too... blocky... I guess, if I use those tiles. The way I used them in the higher/lower grass right now, to me it looks like a more natural flow from high to low, if you catch my drift.

And Loriel, I have read your entire post, but picking it apart and responding to each different part is too much, if you dont mind.
You have a good point on the cliffing, and I will try to make them higher if it doesnt disrupt the level too much.

The blocking off the cave entrance is for gameplay purposes. I am indeed going to make a dungeon below there, and although I am not sure what exactly the dungeon will be themed with, a dark diablo influenced tileset is certainly what I aspire.

I like the criticism so far Yes, it is for Ardeo, and I have a very logical way I have set the gmap up, so water is indeed not an option, maybe a well or something if I can convince Codein to make one.

Haha, you guys are giving him tons of work!

I have this vague complaint about my own work, there is something missing in the detailing, maybe someone can help me spot it? Since I have no clue...
__________________
Oh, Death,
No wealth, no ruin, no silver, no gold
Nothing satisfies me but your soul
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-19-2009, 12:09 PM
Luda Luda is offline
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,071
Luda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud ofLuda has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to Luda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
What did I do wrong now?
it was just long thats all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
My suggestion is not adding water.
lol
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-19-2009, 01:48 PM
Loriel Loriel is offline
Somewhat rusty
Loriel's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,059
Loriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to allLoriel is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimmeh View Post
The criticism part was not meant to be arrogant, I just.... Well, sometimes people presume that their style is the only working one, and that has been the reason I am reluctant to posting here.
[...]
And Loriel, I have read your entire post, but picking it apart and responding to each different part is too much, if you dont mind.
Yeah, do not worry, this is just, like, my opinion and everything. I am a bit oversensitive to people asking for constructive criticism, expecting praise and damning any comment as flaming. However, I am not anything like an authority on level design so I am not going to get mad if you do not change every detail of your level to please me.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:28 PM
Crow Crow is offline
ǝɔɐɹq ʎןɹnɔ
Crow's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,153
Crow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond repute
I don't like the colors of the tiles, and I hope you got permission to use this tree. Also, the tree does not fit the other tiles.
Level: church looks a bit boring, too many grass-bush tiles for my taste. Cliffs seem to be a bit short, no?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:37 PM
Codein Codein is offline
jwd
Codein's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Greater Manchester
Posts: 2,423
Codein has a spectacular aura aboutCodein has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Codein Send a message via MSN to Codein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crow View Post
I don't like the colors of the tiles, and I hope you got permission to use this tree. Also, the tree does not fit the other tiles.
Level: church looks a bit boring, too many grass-bush tiles for my taste. Cliffs seem to be a bit short, no?
Angelu gave me permission some time a go.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-19-2009, 08:33 PM
Pimmeh Pimmeh is offline
Rgesitreed Uesr
Pimmeh's Avatar
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
Posts: 1,586
Pimmeh has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Pimmeh Send a message via MSN to Pimmeh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
Yeah, do not worry, this is just, like, my opinion and everything. I am a bit oversensitive to people asking for constructive criticism, expecting praise and damning any comment as flaming. However, I am not anything like an authority on level design so I am not going to get mad if you do not change every detail of your level to please me.
You do understand my concerns about it all, dont you? Sometimes people can be arrogant and ignore any possible other way, losing track of the idea that there can be different styles, no matter how weird they may be (Cubism, what?)
__________________
Oh, Death,
No wealth, no ruin, no silver, no gold
Nothing satisfies me but your soul
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-29-2009, 04:02 AM
Rave_J Rave_J is offline
Graal Developer
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 848
Rave_J can only hope to improve
Send a message via AIM to Rave_J Send a message via MSN to Rave_J Send a message via Yahoo to Rave_J
I think it would stand out better if you were more creative with the grass add more dirt do little bit more different style with the tree's i think it would give it more flavor to the level
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-29-2009, 04:17 AM
Pimmeh Pimmeh is offline
Rgesitreed Uesr
Pimmeh's Avatar
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
Posts: 1,586
Pimmeh has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Pimmeh Send a message via MSN to Pimmeh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rave_J View Post
I think it would stand out better if you were more creative with the grass add more dirt do little bit more different style with the tree's i think it would give it more flavor to the level
Could you elaborate? Different style with the trees seems kinda non-descript... I dont really get what you mean.
__________________
Oh, Death,
No wealth, no ruin, no silver, no gold
Nothing satisfies me but your soul
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:16 AM
bahamutstevetff bahamutstevetff is offline
Chalk one up to me!
bahamutstevetff's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: England, Wymondham, Norfolk
Posts: 4,145
bahamutstevetff will become famous soon enough
Send a message via MSN to bahamutstevetff Send a message via Yahoo to bahamutstevetff
i still think the bushes look like watermelons ^.^
__________________
if revenged is best served cold, and revenge is sweet....then basically revenge is ice cream.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:50 PM
Matt Matt is offline
iZone Administrator
Matt's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2,690
Matt is a jewel in the roughMatt is a jewel in the rough
I like the building.
__________________
Need Playerworld or Account support?
GraalOnline/Toonslab Support Center
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright (C) 1998-2019 Toonslab All Rights Reserved.