A Fishin' Town!

[WanDaMan]

I got heavilly influenced by the UN levels. I need to add lights and other features to the levels - but that can wait untill I get online or somethin'

VS:CONFLICT

[contiga]

Very sexy boi!

[Crono]

I really don't like the detail in any of them. The house in the middle screenshot with the new roof on top and old wall on bottom doesn't work either.

Nice cliffing as usual, but the lack of trees kind of makes the levels feel empty.

Your deep water style is annoying in those levels, I don't know why.

Overall I'd say 5.5/10 :X

[syltburk]

I like it, nice creativity and tiling.

Good job, but sry srsly i aint rating lolollol

[Eagle]

I really like it.

[MysticalDragon]

Wan your levels are uberly sexi and always has been :o

[Stone_Tower]

Preety nice, if I was too rate it I would give it a 2.5/4. Its not bad, it just needs some work. Not bad though.

[petro1212]

Never like strips of 2 tipes of grass lines; long strings that is. Personaly think its nicer to have them combined in small pieces.

The level is nice overall, but I agree with Crono.. or atleast have the share the same view

[SayianOozaru]

the first one looks nice, but the other 2 are weak :x

[contiga]

Originally Posted by petro1212

Never like strips of 2 tipes of grass lines; long strings that is. Personaly think its nicer to have them combined in small pieces.

The level is nice overall, but I agree with Crono.. or atleast have the share the same view

Your opinion doesn't count, you can't make levels yourself

[konidias]

I think it's complete garbage. No offense, and this is just my opinion... but why do people go through all the time and effort to make these elaborate levels which lack any real creativity or design? You're simply using like every tile you can find to make some insanely complex tiling that doesn't even make sense.

Take the 3rd level for example. You're using what are supposed to be beach tiles for ocean shores, as standing water tiles. You focus so much on your "mad awesome tiling!!11" that you don't focus on adding trees, or signs, or tables and chairs so people can like... sit down.

Honestly, if this level was online I'd avoid it at all costs. It doesn't look pleasant to be in at all. Walking through that upper water area would be hell. You'd constantly be falling in water and popping back out like 20 times just to get from one side to the other. You've got a tree stump out there in the middle of nowhere... Who cut that tree down? Some guy who decided "hey, I need some lumber, I think I'll cross this insanely zig-zaggy watery terrain to get to that one tree way over there so I can cut it down and then cross the water all over again to take back the logs."?

I would say 95% of the LATs on Graal today don't take anything into account except "is my level crazily tiled enough?!?". It's really annoying and a horrible direction to take Graal's levels in.

This kind of level wouldn't even be found randomly in a fantasy world, let alone actual real nature.

Here are some things I like to take into consideration when making levels:

1. is it somewhere people would like to go to hang out
2. does it serve any purpose other than showing your ability to make crazy tile designs?
3. are there focal points in which players can rest their eyes on instead of just non-stop chaos (as in your levels)
4. why are the objects in the level there, and why does it make sense for them to be there
5. is this level comfortable to walk through, or is it too complicated and messy?

Sorry that I blew up like this but I needed to get it off my chest.

/end rant

[WanDaMan]

Oh-god. I can't be bothered. Goodluck Zodiac.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by contiga

Your opinion doesn't count, you can't make levels yourself

Are you ****ting me? He's better than your LAT team will ever be.

I think it's complete garbage. No offense, and this is just my opinion...

I think you should SHUT UP LOL JUST MY OPINION NO OFFENSE SERIOUSLY!! <3<3<3

Take the 3rd level for example. You're using what are supposed to be beach tiles for ocean shores, as standing water tiles. You focus so much on your "mad awesome tiling!!11" that you don't focus on adding trees, or signs, or tables and chairs so people can like... sit down.

I know it doesn't take a cook to judge how food tastes but please show us what you're talking about.

Honestly, if this level was online I'd avoid it at all costs.

There's a significant difference between an eye candy level and a practical playing level.

I would say 95% of the LATs on Graal today don't take anything into account except "is my level crazily tiled enough?!?". It's really annoying and a horrible direction to take Graal's levels in.

So who does? Please tell me, as I am ignorant and misinformed.

1. is it somewhere people would like to go to hang out

I agree here, look at Npulse. Their levels are ugly because of the tileset but some parts look really nice. Thing is that they're in the corners of the OW and people only hang out either in the spar or in the OLD MAIN.

2. does it serve any purpose other than showing your ability to make crazy tile designs?

It shows he has a good understanding of how to use the tileset and has LATing skills.

3. are there focal points in which players can rest their eyes on instead of just non-stop chaos (as in your levels)

WOAH PEOPLE ACTUALLY REST THEIR EYES ON LEVELS? My god! Looks like I'm gonna make a focal level!

4. why are the objects in the level there, and why does it make sense for them to be there

Because its a nice space filler/looks good.

5. is this level comfortable to walk through, or is it too complicated and messy?

Refer to my eye candy level vs practical online level.

You never comment on my work, why don't you? I need some professional analysis.

[contiga]

Originally Posted by Gerami

You never comment on my work, why don't you? I need some professional analysis.

I think it is because he is only able to post 1 post a day, and doesn't want to waste it on your s_h_i_t_t_y levels! (But I can be wrong )

[Crono]

Originally Posted by contiga

I think it is because he is only able to post 1 post a day, and doesn't want to waste it on your s_h_i_t_t_y levels! (But I can be wrong )

1) You avoided the swear filter, good job.

2) ****ty? Why do you ask me to work for you then?

[Rapidwolve]

I have respect for you because if I tried to create something like that I'd miserably fail. XP

8.5/10

great detail btw

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Gerami

I know it doesn't take a cook to judge how food tastes but please show us what you're talking about.

You're right, it doesn't... and no.

There's a significant difference between an eye candy level and a practical playing level.

Eye candy? That's not eye candy to me. It's a mess. The difference between an "eye candy" level and a practical level is that eye candy levels are a waste of time and show nothing. You might as well draw them with pencil and paper.

So who does? Please tell me, as I am ignorant and misinformed.

I don't know who DOES. I know who DOESN'T.

It shows he has a good understanding of how to use the tileset and has LATing skills.

No it doesn't. It shows that he can make squiggly water tiles. That doesn't mean you can make decent levels for actual servers. I had a LAT just like him tryout for my server recently while going by my specifications for the level and it turned out like crap, so being able to make crazy pathways and water tiles does not mean you can make good levels. It's like a guy who can do all sorts of tricks with a basketball but can't play the game for beans.

WOAH PEOPLE ACTUALLY REST THEIR EYES ON LEVELS? My god! Looks like I'm gonna make a focal level!

Your sarcasm is very discreet! But yes, people rest their eyes looking at just about everything. (that has a focal point) A level with a bunch of random squiggled pathways has no focal point, so the person looks at their own character while playing and pays no real attention to the level. If you put things in a level that catch a player's eye, then your level is good and it has a focal point. Too much detail is overwhelming. Nobody will be familiar with that level because of it's tiling... Yet I can practically close my eyes and remember Classic levels and I haven't played on those in years.

Because its a nice space filler/looks good.

That space could have been filled with something better. Not only that, but because most people don't plan levels out in advance they end up with a lot of that filler space. Which causes them to fill it in with any random tiles they can find. Which in turn, makes ugly levels.

Refer to my eye candy level vs practical online level.

Again, eye candy levels serve no purpose at all. You summed it up when you called the opposite "practical" because practical actually has a reason to be there. Why even bother making this kind of level if it's not going to be used and it shows no skill in practical level making at all? Like I said, you might as well draw the level on a piece of paper and say "here is my level". It might as well be moved to the graphics forum.

You never comment on my work, why don't you? I need some professional analysis.

Contiga is right, I can only post once (or actually twice) per day... so that's why I don't post often.

I'll upgrade again probably after my server is released.

[contiga]

Originally Posted by Gerami

2) ****ty? Why do you ask me to work for you then?

I was probally under influence of a LOT alcohol, else I'd never ask you..

Originally Posted by konidias

I had a LAT just like him tryout for my server recently while going by my specifications for the level and it turned out like crap, so being able to make crazy pathways and water tiles does not mean you can make good levels.

That guy was Inferno. Inferno owns, he's not as crazy as Wan or Crono yet

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by contiga

That guy was Inferno. Inferno owns, he's not as crazy as Wan or Crono yet

[MysticalDragon]

Originally Posted by Rapidwolve

I have respect for you because if I tried to create something like that I'd miserably fail. XP

8.5/10

great detail btw

thats a bit harsh I give him 15/10 , it seems that alot of players hate on him because they can't obtain his great skill.But the jealousy will be eased soon enough. (Konidias)
If he had help like Wan, Bomy would be ownaged and player count would boost instead of dramatically droping like it did :P

[Crono]

Originally Posted by konidias

You're right, it doesn't... and no.

Then don't talk.

Eye candy? That's not eye candy to me. It's a mess. The difference between an "eye candy" level and a practical level is that eye candy levels are a waste of time and show nothing. You might as well draw them with pencil and paper.

Eye candy levels show off your tiling skills, but don't concentrate on playiblity. If you can't grasp this I don't know how your levels on G2k1 will look like.

I don't know who DOES. I know who DOESN'T.

Who doesn't?

No it doesn't. It shows that he can make squiggly water tiles. That doesn't mean you can make decent levels for actual servers. I had a LAT just like him tryout for my server recently while going by my specifications for the level and it turned out like crap, so being able to make crazy pathways and water tiles does not mean you can make good levels. It's like a guy who can do all sorts of tricks with a basketball but can't play the game for beans.

I would agree here if it wasn't for the fact that Wan, a person who has a lot of eye candy levels, also has a worldmap thats pretty practical.

Your sarcasm is very discreet! But yes, people rest their eyes looking at just about everything. (that has a focal point) A level with a bunch of random squiggled pathways has no focal point, so the person looks at their own character while playing and pays no real attention to the level. If you put things in a level that catch a player's eye, then your level is good and it has a focal point. Too much detail is overwhelming. Nobody will be familiar with that level because of it's tiling... Yet I can practically close my eyes and remember Classic levels and I haven't played on those in years.

Levels with squiqqly roads are typically not in MAIN TOWNS. They are in the outskirts where you walk from point a.5 to b. Too much detail I agree on, but Wan doesn't typically overdetail neither do some very good lats I know.

You go ahead and continue making love to completly straight cliffing and roads which a 5 year old could do. I'll stick to things that require skill and ease off on eye candy leveling when required.

That space could have been filled with something better. Not only that, but because most people don't plan levels out in advance they end up with a lot of that filler space. Which causes them to fill it in with any random tiles they can find. Which in turn, makes ugly levels.

Agreed.

Again, eye candy levels serve no purpose at all. You summed it up when you called the opposite "practical" because practical actually has a reason to be there. Why even bother making this kind of level if it's not going to be used and it shows no skill in practical level making at all? Like I said, you might as well draw the level on a piece of paper and say "here is my level". It might as well be moved to the graphics forum.

Why bother making graphics if they're not going to be used? It does show LATING skills just not the kind of LATING you find on a normal server. You check out Wan's forest on classic and tell me it's horrible. I know you're not like this but you are beginning to sound like someone who tried to LAT, failed, and begins to hate modern LATing because it's too hard.

Contiga is right, I can only post once (or actually twice) per day... so that's why I don't post often.

i luv u no lngr ;-;

I was probally under influence of a LOT alcohol, else I'd never ask you..

My ass, you've asked me multiple times on Babylon RC back in early 2005. Don't lie, you're just mad because I keep dissing Nicox and you along with everything the two of you ever do. Grow up Contiga, I thought you were slightly better than that.

That guy was Inferno. Inferno owns, he's not as crazy as Wan or Crono yet

I don't know what you mean by crazy but I rank Wan #1 and Inferno above me. We're not crazy, we just don't like to make practical levels all the time, eye candy levels help you with tiling. Sure not practical but it gives you an understanding of the tileset WHEN YOU DO MAKE PRACTICAL LEVELS.

How are you gonna make a nice worldmap if your cliffs look like **** and go straight the entire way around? Seriously.

[contiga]

Originally Posted by Gerami

1 - My ass, you've asked me multiple times on Babylon RC back in early 2005. Don't lie, you're just mad because I keep dissing Nicox and you along with everything the two of you ever do. Grow up Contiga, I thought you were slightly better than that.

2 - How are you gonna make a nice worldmap if your cliffs look like **** and go straight the entire way around? Seriously.

1 - Babylon had/has crazy levels, so we could use you NicoX doesn't Develop anything, he just manages a bit.. and euh, you never dissed me, because I basically never talk to you. I'm grown up, not to mention that about you.

2 - I'm not talking about cliffs, cliffs can be "un-straight".. tho, messy details, like half arsed grass, and other **** that doesn't mean anything for players, shouldn't be there.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by contiga

1 - Babylon had/has crazy levels, so we could use you NicoX doesn't Develop anything, he just manages a bit.. and euh, you never dissed me, because I basically never talk to you. I'm grown up, not to mention that about you.

You didn't ask me to develop for babylon, you asked me to develop for your server(s). Define crazy levels. If you were grown up you wouldn't be pulling **** out of your ass, you damn right know you've asked me to work for you multiple times.

2 - I'm not talking about cliffs, cliffs can be "un-straight".. tho, messy details, like half arsed grass, and other **** that doesn't mean anything for players, shouldn't be there.

I don't like half grass, i don't like ugly detail.

Plus that worldmap comment wasn't directed to you.

[contiga]

Originally Posted by Gerami

You didn't ask me to develop for babylon, you asked me to develop for your server(s). Define crazy levels. If you were grown up you wouldn't be pulling **** out of your ass, you damn right know you've asked me to work for you multiple times.

Plus that worldmap comment wasn't directed to you.

With crazy I mean.. extremely crazy detailed levels (a lot of detail, which is not needed to give it a nice look).

Wan, I didn't want to take you down or so, saying you are a crazy person.. I more meant it in a sort of positive + negative way, I like it, but on the other side its over detailed.

I feel responsible for G2k1's worldmap also, since I am developing the gmap there..

[Crono]

Originally Posted by contiga

With crazy I mean.. extremely crazy detailed levels (a lot of detail, which is not needed to give it a nice look).

Wan makes good detail, these levels were just UN influenced.

Wan, I didn't want to take you down or so, saying you are a crazy person.. I more meant it in a sort of positive + negative way, I like it, but on the other side its over detailed.

Agreed, these levels are not nicely detailed.

I feel responsible for G2k1's worldmap also, since I am developing the gmap there..

R.I.P G2k1

[bgumeny]

Originally Posted by konidias

You focus so much on your "mad awesome tiling!!11" that you don't focus on adding trees, or signs, or tables and chairs so people can like... sit down.

Yes, we all know how badly players always want to rest their pixel legs. It can get tiring sitting in a computer chair watching your game character stand up...

As Gerami said they are just show-off levels done to help practice tiling skills and such. They are very helpful in familizarizing a player with the tileset so that when they do have to make a practical level they know where to find certain tiles. It also helps LATs be more creative.

Originally Posted by konidias

Again, eye candy levels serve no purpose at all. You summed it up when you called the opposite "practical" because practical actually has a reason to be there. Why even bother making this kind of level if it's not going to be used and it shows no skill in practical level making at all? Like I said, you might as well draw the level on a piece of paper and say "here is my level". It might as well be moved to the graphics forum.

So graphic artists can post their random GFX, but LATs cannot post random levels showcasing their talents? The purpose of eye candy levels is to show off an LAT's talents, and also to get criticism and improve their levels. I completely disagree with you and feel that they serve quite a purpose.

[Eagle]

How can you possibly say that Wan's levels are garbage? I must admit that I didn't read every single thing, but I read a part about how just becasue he uses squiggly water/path and stuff doesn't make him a good LAT or show his understanding of the tilesey, actually, it does. He obviously knows a great deal of the tileset to be able to make those types of things, even if you don't like it. You didn't make any sence there at all..

One thing that will probably hurt my 'case', but I thought this was... funny?

I THINK KONIDIAS KNOWS THE TILESET BEST SINCE HE MADE IT LAWL

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Eagle

How can you possibly say that Wan's levels are garbage?

yarly, it's just these ones that are good LATing wise but still ugly.

I THINK KONIDIAS KNOWS THE TILESET BEST SINCE HE MADE IT LAWL

No he edited the old pics1.png I believe.

[Eagle]

Originally Posted by Gerami

No he edited the old pics1.png I believe.

He said that he made it for 2k1, dunno.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Eagle

He said that he made it for 2k1, dunno.

He made the current pics1.png, as in edited the old one. He didn't actually MAKE it though, more like edited. He's responsible for the stones roads and stuff.

[Eagle]

Stone roadds and houses, to me, are the main changed from the old to new tileset. I always use that village path.

[konidias]

I edited the trees, pathways, houses, signs, and some other various tiles. I'm not stating that because of that I'm a better LAT or something. That doesn't prove anything at all... In fact, I don't like most of the tiles I edited. It was a long time ago, and I never intended the edited tiles to be used as the default tileset.

Anyway, I won't trash his level anymore. I got my points across and I hope that some people will understand what I'm saying and stop making these types of levels and make more functional stuff. Because I look at new servers that get released (like Zodiac) and they do indeed use this type of leveling on their server, and it's positively horrid. I walked around the overworld for about 10 minutes and I was just confused and not impressed. All over the place there are spaces in which it appears you can walk through but you can't. There are trees you can walk behind and then trees you can't, there are way too many squiggly paths that seem to have no real reason for existing... etc...

I dunno, maybe that's what the majority likes... I just don't think it looks good is all.

[Crono]

Zodiac and this are very different.

Zodiac's are horribly done and just keep going up and down. Wans are far more rounded and more road like.

[draygin]

While I'm not as harsh as konidias I generally agree with him.

I would hate to play in a level that cluttered online. The levels themselves aren't bad in terms of skill. They would just be a nightmare to play in.

In situations like this less is better you dont need every tile covered and in general on overworlds I've always been a firm believer that detailing should be used sparingly. (By sparingly I dont mean non existant just not every section of the level covered in detail.)

I know this is a little old but I haven't checked the forums in a few weeks and this one struck my fancy.

[WanDaMan]

My intention behind the town was to mimic & adopt the style used on Unholy Nation.

I'm going to "mirror" several levels from well known servers, **** or good I'm not bothered.