What's the deal, Stefan?

[Mark Sir Link]

It's been over a year now. We've had this twisted classic for over a year. So when will it stop, Stefan? Can you claim profits have gone up since the installment of NPC-Server on Classic? Sure, it has a larger playerbase, but it's still trial accounts. The "New" Classic (which is really an oxy*****) is probably bringing profits downward, since there are two quests in which the trials embark to gain the same status has everyone else. Two quick, easy, quests. So what's the point? What MAJOR security risk lies in having a server with no NPC-Server? When has it been possible for people to launch attacks globally from a single server? Stefan, please, just return classic to what it was before the NPC-Server was released.

Many of the players had paid for accounts to play Graal the Adventure. I know I sure did. Whole reason I got my p2p. I've been shortchanged in my payments, since I only got to play it as a p2p for a good 3 months. Those 3 months were unforgettable, and they must remain so for me to have a hope.

Stefan. What advantages are you possibly seeing? The oldbies aren't satisfied with this server. The largest profit potential, the newbies, aren't either. So just bring it back. Bring it all back. Take away the NPC-Server. Give us back our items, our bowling alleys, Babord, Avalon, Nimda. Let us relive these, because Classic is no longer the area to look for profit. Let us have it back.

EDIT: This isn't my first forum account, but my p2p is suffering a permaban for trivial reasons. However, Forum PMs and protest to Stefan himself have yet to work. I thank you for the interjection and warning, but I will have to disregard them.

EDIT 2: Who has asked for conversion, Master Storm?

EDIT 3: I never expected immediate action. I at least hoped someone would contact me so I can convince them or they may convince me as to what would be best for classic. However, none of this is yet to happen. I will dwell further into the bit about Graal making no more money now.

Ibonic has said that graal is in debt. Classic in it's current state is costing GraalOnline money. Not enough people play it, or pay to play it, that it is worth keeping up. Trials who enjoy classic have no incentive to upgrade, since the two quests take up 10 minutes of time, and they're at equal standing with everyone else.

The event that inspired me to start a bridge protest and create this thread happened today, as well. Some guy by the account name Celarion walked up to level14, and started asking questions. He said
"I've been saving up to get a p2p. I used to play pre-p2p. How do I get my old character and stuff back."

Telling him he'd never see it again was a bit painful. This guy surely enjoyed classic enough to upgrade. Perhaps other nooblets will see the light, and follow suit. But first, they need a server that actually requires an upgrade.

So take down the NPC-Server. Add the old levels, all the old NPCs. Don't bother converting them. Just give it back to us.



Classic, R.I.P. 1/6/05

[starwarsdude]

amen.

[Mykel]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

It's been over a year now. We've had this twisted classic for over a year. So when will it stop, Stefan? Can you claim profits have gone up since the installment of NPC-Server on Classic? Sure, it has a larger playerbase, but it's still trial accounts. The "New" Classic (which is really an oxy*****) is probably bringing profits downward, since there are two quests in which the trials embark to gain the same status has everyone else. Two quick, easy, quests. So what's the point? What MAJOR security risk lies in having a server with no NPC-Server? When has it been possible for people to launch attacks globally from a single server? Stefan, please, just return classic to what it was before the NPC-Server was released.

Many of the players had paid for accounts to play Graal the Adventure. I know I sure did. Whole reason I got my p2p. I've been shortchanged in my payments, since I only got to play it as a p2p for a good 3 months. Those 3 months were unforgettable, and they must remain so for me to have a hope.

Stefan. What advantages are you possibly seeing? The oldbies aren't satisfied with this server. The largest profit potential, the newbies, aren't either. So just bring it back. Bring it all back. Take away the NPC-Server. Give us back our items, our bowling alleys, Babord, Avalon, Nimda. Let us relive these, because Classic is no longer the area to look for profit. Let us have it back.

You only have 48 posts, so you probably aren't aware that on this forum we aren't allowed to have an opinon that goes against administration and voice it out loud. They will tell you to make a support ticket, which defeats the purpose most of the time.

[Polo]

These 'bring back Classic' threads are getting repetitive now. The simple fact is that it just isn't really feasible. The GServer has moved on a lot in the last year, and support for non-NPC Server's just isn't a realistic proposition anymore.

I admit that there is a lack of quests on the server right now, but getting everything working smoothly with GS2 and NPC Server has taken longer than I expected. Since his appointment, Massokre has been slowly reforming the LAT team and they are now making great progress to getting more quest and content out soon. As these start going up, along with some other ideas that we have in discussion, trial players will quickly find that they cannot simply log on and be instantly competitive.

People need to realise that we can't just revert to the version of Classic they want. It's not just a simple matter of 'uploading the old levels'. Conversion of old content takes a long time, and in some cases isn't even possible to get a direct 1:1 clone. Whilst we are happy to bring back the more popular places, its simply not possible to have such an 'old Classic'. Sorry.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Polo

These 'bring back Classic' threads are getting repetitive now.

You now, this sentence sort of stopped me from reading on because everything that follows has got to be some protest against Mark_sir_link's completely reasonable request I wholeheartily agree with.

[Darklux]

Originally Posted by Polo

These 'bring back Classic' threads are getting repetitive now. The simple fact is that it just isn't really feasible. The GServer has moved on a lot in the last year, and support for non-NPC Server's just isn't a realistic proposition anymore.

I admit that there is a lack of quests on the server right now, but getting everything working smoothly with GS2 and NPC Server has taken longer than I expected. Since his appointment, Massokre has been slowly reforming the LAT team and they are now making great progress to getting more quest and content out soon. As these start going up, along with some other ideas that we have in discussion, trial players will quickly find that they cannot simply log on and be instantly competitive.

People need to realise that we can't just revert to the version of Classic they want. It's not just a simple matter of 'uploading the old levels'. Conversion of old content takes a long time, and in some cases isn't even possible to get a direct 1:1 clone. Whilst we are happy to bring back the more popular places, its simply not possible to have such an 'old Classic'. Sorry.

When I go on classic i see thousands with Lat tag, noone with Nat tag.
You should open big "hiring nats" post, 2 small quests after 1 year or so is cheap, there should be hired some enthusiasthic nats that are willing to rebuild old quests with gs2.

[NicoX]

Originally Posted by Darklux

When I go on classic i see thousands with Lat tag, noone with Nat tag.
You should open big "hiring nats" post, 2 small quests after 1 year or so is cheap, there should be hired some enthusiasthic nats that are willing to rebuild old quests with gs2.

On Classic the most LATs are also Scripters...

[Kamaeru]

I agree in full. Classic in its full-fledged "The Adventure" state was a beautiful thing. In alot of ways, it matched even Zelda in professional quest design (the pyramid quest was nothing short of genious), and I also feel that it was just as good, if not even better in many ways as Graal2001 in originality and overall awesomeness. There were so many places to go and things to see, I don't think it's fair to destroy something so memorable for such a silly reason.

[Malinko]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

*Insert Post Here*

I understand that's it's been a few months since the NPC-Server was introduced to Classic. I've heard a lot of complaints that the world isn't developing quite enough, though I do see a number of progress updates that seem promising in the future. Of course, I agree, it's ridiculous to wait a long period of time to re-gain what Classic once had.

Though, I do not think Stefan is ignoring the complaints about Classic, but might be thinking about the future potential that Classic will have with a NPC-Server. I do know that having a NPC-Server is a benefit, but I didn't see much flaws of it without a NPC-Server. I'm sure a lot of people can argue that, but in general, the people of Classic didn't have a problem with it.

You propose to upload the "old" Classic with all the atrributes, levels, etc. restored, which I'm not sure is possible, but if so, can't the people of Classic come up with some sort of compromise between all and the staff? Perhaps if a restore was possible, there could be another "Classic Development" world which will be private for staff to further continue with the NPC-Server conversion without interrupting Classic itself. I know how that was in the past, but it's better than waiting around with "nothing", correct? Perhaps a compromise can be made? I'll read the edits in the first post and pass it on to high staff if I can. I think if this could happen, then the NPC-Server conversion to a future Classic should be assembled with a well put together team to speed up the progress, whether is being globals or people who wish to help.

Originally Posted by Mykel

You only have 48 posts, so you probably aren't aware that on this forum we aren't allowed to have an opinon that goes against administration and voice it out loud. They will tell you to make a support ticket, which defeats the purpose most of the time.

That's a bad generalization of the forums. We don't want new people to think of this. The administration does hear what complaints, concerns, and suggestions are being made. Though, it should be presented in a professional method, which Mark_Sir_Link has done. Another note, the GraalOnline Support Center is organized, which we direct people to for a number of reasons.

Originally Posted by Polo

*Insert Post Here*

The threads might be getting repetitive, but as Manager, take the repetitive threads into consideration to improve Classic. Whether a complaint, concern, or suggestion, it's useful to hear from the people who are on Classic. If the development progress is going along slow, then seek additional help? From what I know, jake13jake has been the ONLY person I've seen with some sort of "plan". If some things are completed, then release them? It's bad to wait.

Originally Posted by Darklux

When I go on classic i see thousands with Lat tag, noone with Nat tag.
You should open big "hiring nats" post, 2 small quests after 1 year or so is cheap, there should be hired some enthusiasthic nats that are willing to rebuild old quests with gs2.

Well, on Classic, LATs are known as developers rather than player relations staff.

I remember once Ibonic and Lyndzey wanted to re-make Classic back to its former state, of course with the NPC-Server I assume. I don't know the information behind it, but think of it as something to work with. This note is for Master Storm and all the other developers on Classic.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Darklux

When I go on classic i see thousands with Lat tag, noone with Nat tag.

LAT = Levels Administration Team.
Levels usually contain more than just tiles.

[Luda]

and bring the god dang diggity dang arrow noises back dangit

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Malinko

You propose to upload the "old" Classic with all the atrributes, levels, etc. restored, which I'm not sure is possible, but if so, can't the people of Classic come up with some sort of compromise between all and the staff?

Shouldn't staff compromise with the people who play it instead of the other way 'round?

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Malinko

I understand that's it's been a few months since the NPC-Server was introduced to Classic. I've heard a lot of complaints that the world isn't developing quite enough, though I do see a number of progress updates that seem promising in the future. Of course, I agree, it's ridiculous to wait a long period of time to re-gain what Classic once had.

That's not the problem.
The new additions could be great, but it's no longer the same server, it's not "Classic".

I remember once Ibonic and Lyndzey wanted to re-make Classic back to its former state, of course with the NPC-Server I assume. I don't know the information behind it, but think of it as something to work with. This note is for Master Storm and all the other developers on Classic.

They weren't the only ones.
As far as I know Stefan wouldn't allow such a server.

[Codein]

Originally Posted by Minoc

LAT = Levels Administration Team.
Levels usually contain more than just tiles.

Aye, they don't just contain tiles, but the job name states Levels and not scripts. Sure, it's quite fine adding things in levels, but wouldn't it be better to hire people who deal with NC?

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Codein

Aye, they don't just contain tiles, but the job name states Levels and not scripts. Sure, it's quite fine adding things in levels, but wouldn't it be better to hire people who deal with NC?

They do hire scripters, but there is no reason to create a whole team for 2-3 people.

[Codein]

Originally Posted by Minoc

They do hire scripters, but there is no reason to create a whole team for 2-3 people.

Well, why don't they actually create a whole team and hire for it so progress speeds up?

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Codein

Well, why don't they actually create a whole team and hire for it so progress speeds up?

Because progress is better when the scripters and the tilers are working together.

[Codein]

Originally Posted by Minoc

Because progress is better when the scripters and the tilers are working together.

They would be, but dedicate themselves to scripting, and tilers dedicate themselves to what they do.

Also, when there are not leveling projects or vice versa for scripting, the two teams could help each other.

[Elk]

100. post

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Codein

They would be, but dedicate themselves to scripting, and tilers dedicate themselves to what they do.

Self dedication doesn't require multiple teams.

[Codein]

Originally Posted by Minoc

Self dedication doesn't require multiple teams.

Well, yeah, but it'd still be worthwhile to make a new Scripting team. When decent scripters look for work, and they look at Classic, they only see Level spots open, and not even a scripting team, they'll think twice about working there.

It'd even be worthwhile renaming levels to "Development" or something like it.

[Malinko]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

Shouldn't staff compromise with the people who play it instead of the other way 'round?

Well, I am not Classic staff.

Though, in general, if a massive amount of people wish to have things added or changed, then the staff should take it into some consideration.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Codein

Well, yeah, but it'd still be worthwhile to make a new Scripting team. When decent scripters look for work, and they look at Classic, they only see Level spots open, and not even a scripting team, they'll think twice about working there.

You missed my original point completely.
This argument is getting nowhere.

[Kronan]

LAT's on Classic include: Scripters, Level Makers, Graphics People, Gani people.

It's basically "Developer"

[Codein]

But it's misleading and you'll end up with more level designers than anything else.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Codein

But it's misleading and you'll end up with more level designers than anything else.

It's only misleading newbies, who can't contribute to the team.

[Codein]

Oh, so there is someone, who is highly skilled, yet hasn't played or touched classic, or this post, and they come to Classic, trying it out and notices that they might be in need of their skills, but they're only hiring for Levels Team.

Heck, I didn't know that until you told me. I wouldn't consider myself highly skilled, but I'm not a newbie and I can contribute in some way.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Codein

Oh, so there is someone, who is highly skilled, yet hasn't played or touched classic, or this post, and they come to Classic, trying it out and notices that they might be in need of their skills, but they're only hiring for Levels Team.

There is no such someone.

Heck, I didn't know that until you told me. I wouldn't consider myself highly skilled, but I'm not a newbie and I can contribute in some way.

What's your definition of 'newbie'?

[Codein]

Originally Posted by Minoc

What's your definition of 'newbie'?

Someone who is new to the game.

Originally Posted by Minoc

There is no such someone.

You don't know that.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Codein

Someone who is new to the game.

GREAT! Define 'new'.

You don't know that.

Yes I do. ;)

Btw, don't you think they should change the tag to (Levels Administration Team) instead, just in case an extremely skilled levels maker doesn't know what LAT means?

[Codein]

Oh, right, funny man, now you're just being stupid.

Graphics, Ganis or major Script does not relate to Levels, end of. If a graphics designer was interested in contributing to the project, and the only team they had would be levels, then they'd be put off, and even go away. This means less contributors, less progress and people who complain and make jabs at the server in it's current state - people like you, for instance.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Codein

Graphics, Ganis or major Script does not relate to Levels, end of.

Originally Posted by Codein

If a graphics designer was interested in contributing to the project, and the only team they had would be levels, then they'd be put off, and even go away.

Fortunately, most people are gifted with common sense.

Originally Posted by Codein

This means less contributors, less progress and people who complain and make jabs at the server in it's current state - people like you, for instance.

Reread.
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...5&postcount=13

[Codein]

Originally Posted by Minoc

Fortunately, most people are gifted with common sense.

It's common sense to think "Right, they're hiring Levels Team, I think I might apply for Graphics Design."? Right.

Originally Posted by Minoc

Reread.
http://forums.graalonline.com/forum...05&postcount=13

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the poll you made not too long ago, that suggested you were bashing the current project.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Codein

It's common sense to think "Right, they're hiring Levels Team, I think I might apply for Graphics Design."? Right.

You are a lost cause..

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the poll you made not too long ago, that suggested you were bashing the current project.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...87&postcount=9

[Codein]

Originally Posted by Minoc

You are a lost cause..

I thought the same when you pulled that crap about "Only people with common sense would know that the Levels Team is expected to do everything".

[CidNight1142]

I'd have to say the probably solution to this would be just rename the "LAT" team or whatever to "development" or the "wedoeverythingsquad"...I mean, thats the common sense here...

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by CidNight1142

I'd have to say the probably solution to this would be just rename the "LAT" team or whatever to "development" or the "wedoeverythingsquad"...I mean, thats the common sense here...

A solution to what exactly?

[Codein]

The solution to the inevitable arguement.

[CidNight1142]

Originally Posted by Minoc

A solution to what exactly?

To the confusion over the development squad on classic.
I suppose if you're only looking for classic players, its not bad, since anyone with reasonable hours on classic will probably know the whole "LAT means developer in general" thing. But if you're searching for help from the general development pool, which includes many people who have never played classic, it might help to have a less misleading name.

[Inverness]

Classic does not need to hire any more scripters if they have enough and the LATs can script aswell, it is the same with Aeon, Napo and myself are the only major scripters on the server because most other staff know enough about scripting to do what scripts they need for their own project themselves, which is why we're not hiring scripters.

Originally Posted by Codein

The solution to the inevitable arguement.

Levels are what make a server, and levels have graphics and npcs in them. Scripts are Graphics are worth nothing without levels, I don't see anything wrong with the name except for the fact that its is misleading. Changing the name to Developer would make their job more obvious to players who do not understand the difference.