Spellcasting improvements

[Admins]

May be you should actually try the thing before posting x-x
Spells on hotkeys fire to the mouse position. Also it is easier to target objects now, the mouse doesn't need to be exactly above the object. Targeting with the mouse needs to be the default way of aiming since (most) spells don't make sense without aiming. If you have a good idea for using the old way of casting without making the new way rubish then please say

[Draenin]

The new way is not complete rubbish. It just needs fine-tuning.

[MasterNuke]

... *resists violence*...
You are not understanding my point! A good number of spells and prayers are commonly casted on self. In many situations, others may be around. Having the new casting method is an INCONVINIENCE because even if you press A to cancel targeting, YOU ARE STILL GOING TO FACE THE DIRECTION OF THE MOUSE CURSOR, THUS POSSIBLY CASTING CERTAIN SPELLS ON THE WRONG TARGETS. When it concerns certain spells, you don't get a second chance and such clumsy casting can result in DEATH.
You are also not understanding that IT REQUIRES MORE THAN NORMAL COORDINATION to manuver, move the mouse to the target, and hit the cast button all at the same time. For oldbies of Graal, this would mean breaking a several year habit of using the ASD+arrow keys. It may have looked good in testing, but in real use, it is HORRIBLE.

Being a good spellcaster and a good sitting duck are two different things. If you can't tell the difference, get someone else to work on the spell system.

[Admins]

Well MasterNuke if you don't understand then just wait until the new spell things are completely done. I have asked if the new targeting system should temporary be disabled but no one has replied to that. And if you don't have ideas about how to change the mouse targetting without making it rubbish then I cannot help.

[Waltz5]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well MasterNuke if you don't understand then just wait until the new spell things are completely done. I have asked if the new targeting system should temporary be disabled but no one has replied to that. And if you don't have ideas about how to change the mouse targetting without making it rubbish then I cannot help.

Why implement something if it's not done completely? By your words we're getting a false impression of the system because it's not fully done. Whose fault is that?

Disable it until the whole new system is done.

He already gave you an idea:

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

It'd be much better if you make it so if you hold A while casting, it targets to the mouse cursor, instead of how it is now.

Your reasoning of "Targeting with the mouse needs to be the default way of aiming since (most) spells don't make sense without aiming." makes little sense to me. The most common spells in my opinion are used without aiming (Restoration, Summon Avatar, Lightning, Icestorm). Bullet and cause wounds are the only major ones that will use targeting.

And think of it this way, is it easier to have targeting from the start or have targeting as an option? The players have told you it's easier to have it as an option.

[Draenin]

Binding aiming functions to a key will not make the system rubbish, Stefan.

[--Chris--]

I completely agree with Masternuke/Ed. Furthermore, magic resistance isn't always attribute-able as spells have different attack-types and they rotate to my knowledge.

[Admins]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Binding aiming functions to a key will not make the system rubbish, Stefan.

Try yourself Try aiming by pressing A + O + mouse at the same time (like someone suggested before) Currently (with the mouse aiming) you just move the mouse over a target and press the hotkey.

Ok things we can do:
- have an option where you can target the spell in your view direction (automatically targetting objects in front even if they are moving?), plus make it possible to cast diagonally
- have another option where it casts to the mouse position, but shows where it casts to (point on the terrain or circle around a player or npc)

Question is how you can switch between the two modes easily, A is already used for unlocking the target.

Update: ok disabled the mouse targetting temporary

[Raeiphon]

Or better yet, introduce fast-casting, based off a stat, say, dex? More dex you have, faster you cast things without the delay, and 30 dex'd be instant cast with .2 movement delay.

[sage_scooby]

I think it would be nice when you ready your wand you see something indicating the current target. Or if you ready the wand and it starts at no selection. Then you'd press "A" to cycle through targets that are in range, and it would cycle back to nothing eventually.

After your target is selected you just press your hotkey and fire away. Simple and your hands still stay on the keyboard the whole time.

[Valder]

Originally Posted by Raeiphon

Or better yet, introduce fast-casting, based off a stat, say, dex? More dex you have, faster you cast things without the delay, and 30 dex'd be instant cast with .2 movement delay.

No because Dex is used for walking speed. Casting time should be lowered if you have high INT, because well... INT IS USED FOR MAGIC!?

[Admins]

Faster spell casting will be added for low-level spells

[ReBorn_Spirit]

How about use A to lock your target to your cursor instead of unlocking it.
OR you could use A to enable/disable the targeting system for your character, and have it tell you in the bottom right corner of the screen.

[Draenin]

One thing's for sure: Aiming spells should be optional, like it has been for a long time now. That doesn't mean that your work should be thrown away, Stefan. It just means that you ought to make a function that allows you to disable / enable the aiming system you just created easily. (Like pressing 'A' to toggle it on and off, for example.)

[Admins]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Question is how you can switch between the two modes easily, A is already used for unlocking the target.

Still someone will need to help me for this...

[Raeiphon]

Possibly have a preferences menu where you can set this? I'm pretty sure the ctrl and alt hotkey sets havent been totally binded yet.

Like, Ctrl + P to open a preferences menu where you can specify what magic aiming system you want to do, sort of like what Maloria has.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Still someone will need to help me for this...

Do you mean helping you with actual coding, or providing explanations?

[Admins]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Do you mean helping you with actual coding, or providing explanations?

I would say you can answer that question yourself

[Draenin]

Well, you could probably place the mouse system you just developed into a function that is toggled off and on when you press a singular key that is unused.

[ReBorn_Spirit]

I would say that using a key to enable or disable it would be more effective, or a command to turn it on or off for your own character.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by ReBorn_Spirit

I would say that using a key to enable or disable it would be more effective, or a command to turn it on or off for your own character.

Precisely.

[cutelilmurderer]

The new magic system was brilliant, aim with the mouse and hit the target from miiiiles away. Certain spells like Large Bullet would peirce a few enemies in a row. Brillant. Why has it been reset to the old way? The old way is frustrating, so at least tell me why Stefan!!

[cutelilmurderer]

The thing is that if you have a set of hotkeys for spells (like i do!) you can do quicker alchemy and casting without the frustration of dragging the spells. I think people are getting frustrated because they don't fully understand the concept of the mouse acting as a reticle. A lot of posts here are all about accidental casting, which fully tells me that people are not actually experimenting with what the new spellcaster is capable of. I press "R" to fire a quick blast of LBullet at annoying small targets while offing a larger enemy (lord) without casting on him. There are many times where I went into the underground for leveling on rexes with the new system and never missed with the new system in place.

Frankly, the old magic system has to go. The magic system developed now makes the game seem more real-time which is what I imagine was intended. The new magic script is brilliant Stefan, especially for new players. In fact I have found that I saw more players actually using bullet while this system was in place with no complaints of misdirection. Most players will just cast lightning to spam damage in a radical amount of space just to hit one target in the general area. With the new system players are not worried about freezing or burning items.

About particle effects:
Excellent idea, spells like "slow" and "create bomb" wouldn't lag up a machine as trucked out as many machines are these days. Even with minimal graphic settings the game shouldn't be so latent the way it is on my machine. I like the way the direction the magic system is going so long as the system developed is kept in place.
(aiming with the mouse and utilizing hotkeys is the best thing to happen to GK)

[Waltz5]

Originally Posted by cutelilmurderer

A lot of posts here are all about accidental casting, which fully tells me that people are not actually experimenting with what the new spellcaster is capable of. I press "R" to fire a quick blast of LBullet at annoying small targets while offing a larger enemy (lord) without casting on him. There are many times where I went into the underground for leveling on rexes with the new system and never missed with the new system in place.

Yes the new system works well with spells like Large Bullet or Cause Wounds. However it fails with spells such as Restoration (or anything you'd cast on yourself) or Icestorm. I don't think you'd fully understand the faults with it unless you spar a lot or are B-Mode.

[cutelilmurderer]

Not true, move the mouse to yourself to cast on you. I do it often to go shopping with friends (charisma) or cure a whole group of people consecutively. The whole thing is especially accurate if you use hotkeys (as apposed to typing "/cast restoration" and then pressing attack) for faster casting and quick use of commonly used spells.

I have the first five keys bound as follows:
Keep in mind this is a shopping bind!
1.Armor (with cha -5) removal
2./cast charisma
3.Dagger of Fortune Equip
4.Cha +2 equip
5.Cha +2 equip

Since you can't cast indoors this is an instant way to boost up your CHA in order to get that special item. It allows for versatility without error margin. Like I said earlier mistakes are due to lack of exploration or practice. Sometimes with the old system I would "/cast charisma" and nothing would happen, meaning I probably just charmed someone or something else. I could drag it out of the menu but it's drastically slower and everyone around you can see the spell you are using that way. I know that the hotkeys have been greatly used these last few days because of it.

When the system came out, I took two friends and helped them with the trouble ("casting in weird directions" as they put it) they were having with the magic system. They praised it and told me how great it was in places like West Haunted House and beaches.
I took a small group of new players aside and asked them to cast using the old system and they complained about missing and even slow moving targets being frustrating. The system needs to stick, It's very useful to primary casters and would make a positive use of the underused "Brigid" altar.

A little "off key" here, I noticed that with a hotkey like LBullet assigned I could do quick melee turns in association with the mouses position when a weapon was equipped and a spell was not used. Made melee fights a little more interesting with multiple enemies.

[MasterNuke]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Still someone will need to help me for this...

You wouldn't need to put in modes if you just made A the "spell targeting" button instead of the "cancel spell targeting" button.


And my argument about accidental casting has more to do with casting while in action, and not casting on slow sluggish monsters that aren't even aggroing you anyway. Try manuvering around, casting, and aiming with the mouse all at the same time. It doesn't work so well. Thus, putting us back at square one with spell control in the heat of battle.

Also, you will find that you won't have enough reasonable hotkeys for every spell you use eventually.

I will agree that the system is GREAT for long distance Player vs Low-aggro range monster... but in close quarters, it leaves you a sitting duck and it becomes exponentially easier to fowl up and take a smack to the face.

The system is flawed. Got it?

[Admins]

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

You wouldn't need to put in modes if you just made A the "spell targeting" button instead of the "cancel spell targeting" button.

You still need a way to cancel spell targetting if your spells are locked on players or monsters.

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

I will agree that the system is GREAT for long distance Player vs Low-aggro range monster... but in close quarters, it leaves you a sitting duck and it becomes exponentially easier to fowl up and take a smack to the face.

The old spell effects are not really good for fast action anyway

[Valder]

Originally Posted by Stefan

You still need a way to cancel spell targetting if your spells are locked on players or monsters.


The old spell effects are not really good for fast action anyway

You have an entire keyboard full of keys to use. Maybe add spell targeting as a skill and let people set it to whatever hotkey they want.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Stefan

You still need a way to cancel spell targetting if your spells are locked on players or monsters.

Set a button for toggling it on and off.

[Stevsen]

This new system might not be perfect, but the stupidest thing to do is to turn it off. It was in the testing phase. Everything has faults, nothing is perfect. Just let Stefan and his team (if he has one) work. LIVE WITH NOT BEING ABLE TO F**CKING OWN EVERYONE WITH YOUR OH MIGHTY SPELLS FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS/WEEKS, TILL IT WORKS!

Its a god damn game.

(Sorry for the rudeness in the post, im just tired of hearing the same old song).

[Waltz5]

Originally Posted by Stevsen

jibberish

Yes let's not try to improve on things and get player opinions.

[cutelilmurderer]

Someone mentioned the new spell locking/cancelling as a skill? That seems like a very good idea, so that the players who don't like it have the option not to use it. This way everyone gets their way and can target the old way and new way without that force to use the unfamiliar. I would definitely use it though. Similar to the Shopping skill and it's negative and positive effects. Good input Valder!

[Admins]

No a skill would be too complicated, and hart to use for switching something on / off, and it wouldn't be really logical

[cutelilmurderer]

True enough, I still like the new system much much better. I really liked curving shots around objects on the ground and smashing it into an enemy from the side. Made for some really cool tactics in the arena. Of course after trying in the arena I noticed that a player who sees himself/herself losing will automatically spam some kind of "cover-the-whole-area-with-fire" tactic and hope I'm running around on fire. Not that this isn't the way everyone on Kingdoms spars anyway. It was cool to finally have a magical advantage without the other player SEEING what spell i'm dragging out to cast on him.

It doesn't keep you guessing, and that is what I loved about it. Manually placing the runes in the ground and inspiring fear into your opponent when he steps on an antimagic rune, not a bad thing. I remember thinking, "Oh ok I see he is using cause typhoid so I'd better prepare my _____."

The new way it's like, "Hey this guy just poisoned me with something, let's see if I am fast enough to get him back with something he won't expect like _____."

One match I decided to cast Holy Orb rather than cast Holy wrath to trick my opponent into fearfully run over a Rune of Death, which if you see me physically drag it out, you will watch your step in that area. The system made it feel more like a real-time targeting reticle as I mentioned before, and was great for newer players who hadn't adapted the old system yet anyways.

I guess my point is it was a very cool and creative addition to what was a much needed change in the dragging system. I hope all of the improvements are that astounding.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by cutelilmurderer

True enough, I still like the new system much much better. I really liked curving shots around objects on the ground and smashing it into an enemy from the side.

You could do that to begin with.

Originally Posted by cutelilmurderer

I guess my point is it was a very cool and creative addition to what was a much needed change in the dragging system. I hope all of the improvements are that astounding.

True, it makes combat harder for people fighting melee, but the system is also endlessly annoying when trying to fire in the direction you're facing, which sometimes has to happen quickly. Sometimes there isn't enough time to stop, grab your mouse, and aim at someone with it just to ensure that the shot goes in the right direction. By default, projectiles should go in the direction one is facing.

[MasterNuke]

Originally Posted by cutelilmurderer

True enough, I still like the new system much much better. I really liked curving shots around objects on the ground and smashing it into an enemy from the side. Made for some really cool tactics in the arena. Of course after trying in the arena I noticed that a player who sees himself/herself losing will automatically spam some kind of "cover-the-whole-area-with-fire" tactic and hope I'm running around on fire. Not that this isn't the way everyone on Kingdoms spars anyway. It was cool to finally have a magical advantage without the other player SEEING what spell i'm dragging out to cast on him.

It doesn't keep you guessing, and that is what I loved about it. Manually placing the runes in the ground and inspiring fear into your opponent when he steps on an antimagic rune, not a bad thing. I remember thinking, "Oh ok I see he is using cause typhoid so I'd better prepare my _____."

The new way it's like, "Hey this guy just poisoned me with something, let's see if I am fast enough to get him back with something he won't expect like _____."

One match I decided to cast Holy Orb rather than cast Holy wrath to trick my opponent into fearfully run over a Rune of Death, which if you see me physically drag it out, you will watch your step in that area. The system made it feel more like a real-time targeting reticle as I mentioned before, and was great for newer players who hadn't adapted the old system yet anyways.

I guess my point is it was a very cool and creative addition to what was a much needed change in the dragging system. I hope all of the improvements are that astounding.

All your situations assumed that your spells actually did something to your opponent, your opponent didn't know how to combat magic, and your opponent was under level 54.

My point was that this was an addition targeted to the sitting duck aspect of spell casters and this improvement was not thought through completely.

[Stevsen]

Originally Posted by Waltz5

Yes let's not try to improve on things and get player opinions.

And lets not read what others post .

I said it was stupid that everyone wanted it to be turned off instead of leaving it on. You might not even have found all flaws in it, but that doesn't matter cause you cant "own" people.

[Draenin]

You're putting the issue into a very primitive light, Stevsen. It is not a matter only concerning higher-end folks. It affects newer people as well.

[Raeiphon]

Or making it an ability.

Focused Casting, when enabled, lasts about 10 minutes, and allows you to aim with spells by using the mouse. A simple solution.

[Stevsen]

Originally Posted by Draenin

You're putting the issue into a very primitive light, Stevsen. It is not a matter only concerning higher-end folks. It affects newer people as well.

Yes, but did you see any new folks complaining?