Lets discuss the flaws with the forums

[Spark910]

Originally Posted by Mykel

The rule says promoting. Simply talking about it in a regular fashion isn't promoting it.

But your not supposed to have drank alchol yet, I assume thats the laws over there im not quite sure, but if you start saying all these names and brands it would promote people to find out what they all are and possibly try them?

[Damix2]

(Edit by Spark: Read my post above)

[Mykel]

Originally Posted by Spark910

But your not supposed to have drank alchol yet, I assume thats the laws over there im not quite sure, but if you start saying all these names and brands it would promote people to find out what they all are and possibly try them?

Hrm. I see where you are coming from. But I honestly don't think it will effect anyone's decision. Oh well.

[Spark910]

Originally Posted by Mykel

Hrm. I see where you are coming from. But I honestly don't think it will effect anyone's decision. Oh well.

You see the example you used I have no idea what it is, like if I said Walkers to you, I don't think you'd be able to tell me what that is (You are american right?) because over different countries they change the names slightly for the same brands. And I have no idea what captain morgan is, all I picture is my history teacher Mr Morgan on a boat... so I'd go and look what it is.

[brock128]

Originally Posted by Gerami

No, leave it there. Think about it, other MMORPG's obviously outperform Graal and since Graal is p2p they will lose people. Or so unixmad thinks.

However in another point, it would actually be good because usually on other MMORPG's (I have experienced this several times) the Graalians tend to join together and help one another. Not only that but we also tend to tell others in the mmorpg about Graal. Sure we dont like explaining the whole thing, but it does add popularity to Graal.

But realistically, "brock", I doubt this rule will be removed. If you're manager of a p2p and want users to only play yours then this rule fits in "fine". Maybe we can bring up enough good points to get the rule taken away if and only if unixmad views this

There has been no proof of lost profits because of MMOs. Also, if people really anted to find out about an MMO, they wouldn't go to the graal boards.

Originally Posted by Spark in an unneeded edit

Stay on topic. And I remove those for the reason stated in the 1st line of my top post, if you would read.

It IS on topic. There was no reason to delete my post. I did read it. And just because there were 3 topics on a similar matter doesn't mean that you can delete it. Otherwise this board wouldn't exist because we're all talking about graal.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Mykel

The rule says promoting. Simply talking about it in a regular fashion isn't promoting it.

Assume for a moment that the parents of a player actually find the forums. They have a look around to see what their children are reading.

Now, is the first thing coming to their mind "Oh, probably some of these people are over 18," or is it "Ok, these people are probably my child's age and they are discussing drinking alcohol. This is a bad influence. My child is not going to come here anymore."?

That's just one scenerio. The other is it makes the forums as a whole look bad. This isn't a usergroup oriented around discussing illegal activities. And yes, there is a difference between alcohol and driving. It[alcohol] ruins lives. Don't bring your arguments in with the "well omg bad drivers ruin lives", because that doesn't matter. Most people under the legal age to drive won't be able to drive, and probably won't be bad drivers if they. I know alot of kids who drink though, and there is no quantity control; they get absolutely hammered because they are young and stupid and don't know the effects. I don't want someone else to get that idea from here.

Ok, so I'm not a moderator, but those are the reasons I like the rule in place.

[Spark910]

Stefans take on the alchol thing:
*Stefan: in several countries its illegal to make advertising for it
*Stefan: no alchohol advertising here (here meaning france)
*Stefan: if i would have some children and someone is trying to convince them to take drugs or speak like drugs are cool then i would not tolerate that

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Hmm, here are my problems:


A) 10 character filter.
It is completely pointless. You can do one of two things:
-Have no filter, and have a few people putting "needless" posts like "lol" down, and have the moderators either ignore these harmless posts, or edit them out. With this, you have a few pointless short posts, but plenty of short posts which are quite reasonable.
-Have a filter, causing both the pointless posts and the reasonable posts to have thigns like "10 characters" added on the bottom. This means that the posters get annoyed because they can't type what they want and have to pointlessly add something on, and this annoys the moderators because it's pointless. Everybody loses.

B) Alcohol/voilence rule.
Guys...take a look at graal, ok? Every single server revolves around either hacking each other's brains out with swords, or shooting each other with guns or bows, etc. Talking about violence...which none of us do...would be far less effective in promoting violence than the actual game itself, k?
Then take a look at the game some more. Just about every server has a bar/pub/inn it, and guess what the npcs give you? That's right, npc beer. There are bottles of alcohol on the damned TILESET, for goodness sake. Now, have you ever heard of a case where a player has seen any of this beer, etc, and said "wow, all this makes me want to go out and drink some in real life! Maybe it will restore my hearts so i can go PK down at the park!". I highly doubt you have, k. Graal shows alcohol on a regular basis, and it is harmless, and on the forums we rarely even talk about alcohol, much less promote it.

C) My mother is annoying, i can't think of anything else right now.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Monkeyboy_McGee

Hmm, here are my problems:


A) 10 character filter.
It is completely pointless. You can do one of two things:
-Have no filter, and have a few people putting "needless" posts like "lol" down, and have the moderators either ignore these harmless posts, or edit them out. With this, you have a few pointless short posts, but plenty of short posts which are quite reasonable.
-Have a filter, causing both the pointless posts and the reasonable posts to have thigns like "10 characters" added on the bottom. This means that the posters get annoyed because they can't type what they want and have to pointlessly add something on, and this annoys the moderators because it's pointless. Everybody loses.

I do agree it is annoying.

Originally Posted by Monkeyboy_McGee

B) Alcohol/voilence rule.
Guys...take a look at graal, ok? Every single server revolves around either hacking each other's brains out with swords, or shooting each other with guns or bows, etc. Talking about violence...which none of us do...would be far less effective in promoting violence than the actual game itself, k?
Then take a look at the game some more. Just about every server has a bar/pub/inn it, and guess what the npcs give you? That's right, npc beer. There are bottles of alcohol on the damned TILESET, for goodness sake. Now, have you ever heard of a case where a player has seen any of this beer, etc, and said "wow, all this makes me want to go out and drink some in real life! Maybe it will restore my hearts so i can go PK down at the park!". I highly doubt you have, k. Graal shows alcohol on a regular basis, and it is harmless, and on the forums we rarely even talk about alcohol, much less promote it.

Still, it is a fantasy game. It's not suggesting you do it in real life, by any means.

[brock128]

And neither are the topics on graal. The only topic that I saw didn't even promote beer, it just said ONE study showed that beer MAY kill some "weak" brain cells.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by brock128

And neither are the topics on graal. The only topic that I saw didn't even promote beer, it just said ONE study showed that beer MAY kill some "weak" brain cells.

Here are 778 links.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=%22eff...-8&hl=en&meta=

You can use them if you'd like.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Still, it is a fantasy game. It's not suggesting you do it in real life, by any means.

Aye, but nor are we on this forum. And to me, there isn't really a great deal of difference between the game and the forums...the game's pixel and words on my screen, the forums are just words on my screen, none of it's related to me IRL in any way. The game's not real and the forums are potentially not real also. that's how i feel, anyway.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Monkeyboy_McGee

Aye, but nor are we on this forum. And to me, there isn't really a great deal of difference between the game and the forums...the game's pixel and words on my screen, the forums are just words on my screen, none of it's related to me IRL in any way. The game's not real and the forums are potentially not real also. that's how i feel, anyway.

NGRT is generally a place for discussion of real issues.

[brock128]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Here are 778 links.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=%22eff...-8&hl=en&meta=

You can use them if you'd like.

I was quoting the post. I didn't even really read it, I saw the topic, skimmed it a little, and then it wasn't there the next day. You're awfully touchy

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by brock128

I was quoting the post. I didn't even really read it, I saw the topic, skimmed it a little, and then it wasn't there the next day. You're awfully touchy

I'm just showing you some of the other studies, in case you only thought there was one.

[brock128]

Sorry, I thought the point was that it's negative or something... Don't mind me, way too tired... Sorry...

[DarkShadows_Legend]

I think discussion of bans should be allowed, but only to clarify what
the user did that was wrong so that others can have an understanding of
what the person did and why the persons actions are not allowed.

*Stefan: no alchohol advertising here (here meaning france)

I took 2 french classes and when we got to the parts discussing
culture it was mentioned that it is normal to see food-related
advertisements promote drinking wine. Drinking beverages containing
some alcohol seemed to be shown in just about every video shown in
class.

B) Alcohol/voilence rule.
Guys...take a look at graal, ok? Every single server revolves around either hacking each other's brains out with swords, or shooting each other with guns or bows, etc. Talking about violence...which none of us do...would be far less effective in promoting violence than the actual game itself, k?
Then take a look at the game some more. Just about every server has a bar/pub/inn it, and guess what the npcs give you? That's right, npc beer. There are bottles of alcohol on the damned TILESET, for goodness sake. Now, have you ever heard of a case where a player has seen any of this beer, etc, and said "wow, all this makes me want to go out and drink some in real life! Maybe it will restore my hearts so i can go PK down at the park!". I highly doubt you have, k. Graal shows alcohol on a regular basis, and it is harmless, and on the forums we rarely even talk about alcohol, much less promote it.

Thats funny.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

I took 2 french classes and when we got to the parts discussing culture it was mentioned that it is normal to see food-related advertisements promote drinking wine. Drinking beverages containing
some alcohol seemed to be shown in just about every video shown in
class.

It actually is illegal to advertise drinks with alcohol in them in France, but the wine industry has been trying to get an exemption from that ban.

[haunter]

... Wine doesn't need advertising... They have too much of it... They're practically giving it away out on the streets over there! @_@;

[Googi]

Originally Posted by protagonist

NGRT is generally a place for discussion of real issues.

Like FTP, the Lance of Longinus, and ROFLCopters.

[Loriel]

And if I ever met someone mad enough to have children with me, and subsequently someone tried to disallow them from speaking about alcohol and drugs, I would not tolerate that either.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by haunter

... Wine doesn't need advertising... They have too much of it... They're practically giving it away out on the streets over there! @_@;

I'm sorry Mr.Levels Mod but you're not on topic

I'm ok with the no-alcohol rule. I hate alcohol and wish all those alcohol companies would die. They literally ruined my life. This rule is just a way to get back at them in my view.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Googi

Like FTP, the Lance of Longinus, and ROFLCopters.

The playing/using of these in real life.

I hope you see the difference between discussing those and alcohol?

[Dach]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Because on the rare occasion that it IS done, the reply we get is "What rule have I broken" thats why

Point being, a rule against promoting illegal/(severely)harmful activities implies that promoting consumption of alchoholic beverages is not allowed. Pin-pointing certain subjects is just going to cause more problems than it solves (see: all uprisings against said rule).

Originally Posted by Gerami

I'm sorry Mr.Levels Mod but you're not on topic

He's showing that people will do things like drink alchoholic beverages without it being promoted.

[Rick]

I see a problem with the lack of enforcement of non-critical rules, mainly the usage of oversided (width, height, & filesize) or inappropriate signatures, avatars, and user pictures. I would like it if the signature rule revised to make sizes smaller (at least in the height part).

The other issues I feel that should be looked into have already been discussed, so I will not repeat them.

[robinrobin1]

I have a problem with the account sharing rule.
In the user agreement it clearly states that you must be 13 years old to play. With the account sharing rule a no players will beable to have a p2p account since they didn't buy the account themselfs.
How on earth will anyone under 18 have a credit card, legally? They can't. So the only way for them to have a p2p account is for a friend or parent to buy them it. And some parent's don't like to give out their credit card information online. So then if that friend or parent bought them a p2p, that is considered account sharing according to the rules and that isn't allowed.
So technically any player who is under 18 and has a p2p account is "account sharing." I think you need to redefine that rule since that would be the only way for a player under 18 to have p2p account.

[brock128]

You don't understand account sharing. The parent buys the account in thename of the kid. Although what I don't get is why you can't give your account to a friend when you're done with it...

[Spark910]

Originally Posted by robinrobin1

I have a problem with the account sharing rule.
In the user agreement it clearly states that you must be 13 years old to play. With the account sharing rule a no players will beable to have a p2p account since they didn't buy the account themselfs.
How on earth will anyone under 18 have a credit card, legally? They can't. So the only way for them to have a p2p account is for a friend or parent to buy them it. And some parent's don't like to give out their credit card information online. So then if that friend or parent bought them a p2p, that is considered account sharing according to the rules and that isn't allowed.
So technically any player who is under 18 and has a p2p account is "account sharing." I think you need to redefine that rule since that would be the only way for a player under 18 to have p2p account.

Your not sharing if you upgrade it for someone, as your not using it afterwards.

[thrashsoul]

They give babies wine in france, thats why they are always quiet at dinner. (watched it firsthand)

[Googi]

Originally Posted by robinrobin1

How on earth will anyone under 18 have a credit card, legally? They can't.

Kamuii does.

(somehow)

[Damix2]

Originally Posted by Googi

Kamuii does.

(somehow)

As do I, I actually found a err...glitch is the system.

If you have a Simon mall around you, you know that they recently made a deal with Visa. Instead of giving gift cards out, they give you a visa card with a certain amout of money on it. Being bored, I tired using one online and it worked, the money was taken off the card and I recieved my item. So now anytime I need something, I just go and get a gift card from the mall.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Damix2

If you have a Simon mall around you, you know that they recently made a deal with Visa. Instead of giving gift cards out, they give you a visa card with a certain amout of money on it. Being bored, I tired using one online and it worked, the money was taken off the card and I recieved my item. So now anytime I need something, I just go and get a gift card from the mall.

Woah. And you don't even get billed?

But then that's not really a credit card, is it?

[ZanderX]

Originally Posted by Googi

Kamuii does.

(somehow)

A) I'm Jewish. This means I am entitled to money.

B) Serious answer: It's a shared card with my mother. I have my own card, as does she, and both cards have both of our names on it. But she never uses hers, so it is pretty much exclusively mine.

[Spark910]

Anymore rule problems to point out? Or have we covered everything?

[AlkarenHyralt]

The MMORPG rule has been around since before really I even came into power.

It came from the massive ammount of threads in the NGR forum long ago abour RO, which was luring many, many graal players to it, and away from graal.

Of course RO follows the old rule how someone will use something until something better comes along. Except replace use with play and there you go.

Otherwise, the complaints I have are vast and I see no point in typing them all out, for they will not be fixed.

The MMORPG rule will not be removed though, it came from unixmad himself. It'd be hard to remove.

[brock128]

Yeah, that's great and all, but I'd say RO is worse then graal in it's current state.
and considering classic and 2k1 are dead that means graal is pretty bad in my eyes

That, and instead of saying "OH GOD DON'T TALK ABOUT OTHER MMORPGS" - MAKE GRAAL BETTER! Have Stefan work on the servers people signed up for and loved! Not that Everquest clone!

[Damix2]

Originally Posted by Googi

Woah. And you don't even get billed?

But then that's not really a credit card, is it?

It serves as a sort of debit card I guess. I guess it really is not a credit card but it works for purposes where a credit card is needed.

[Nappa]

My complaint is how we are being treated by children.

How about another set of forums made for people who ya know, don't need their mommys permission to read something and dont care about reading mature things ? Maybe not another forum but another part of the forums where we can talk about anything, and graalonline is not responsible about the content of it.

[Milkdude99]

Originally Posted by Damix2

As do I, I actually found a err...glitch is the system.

If you have a Simon mall around you, you know that they recently made a deal with Visa. Instead of giving gift cards out, they give you a visa card with a certain amout of money on it. Being bored, I tired using one online and it worked, the money was taken off the card and I recieved my item. So now anytime I need something, I just go and get a gift card from the mall.

Errr Visa , Mastercard debit cards (only those with their logos on them) will act like credit cards online, that is not a glitch but done by the Banks by design.

Originally Posted by Nappa

My complaint is how we are being treated by children.

How about another set of forums made for people who ya know, don't need their mommys permission to read something and dont care about reading mature things ? Maybe not another forum but another part of the forums where we can talk about anything, and graalonline is not responsible about the content of it.

Maybe because Graal cares about the content of it's Forum whereas others don't and throw that lame clause in to cover for that. The Forums as well as the Game are aimed at to be a Family Game where most ages can play and post and therefore the rules. The Forums and Game is not rated PG-17 you know and can just post anything you like..

[Nappa]

Do you know how many forums don't have 1/10 of the rules we have but sustain far better then graal forums do ?

Why do you keep slapping rules on us for no reason ? These rules were added BECAUSE SOMETHING COULD HAPPEN.

Why don't we all kill our mothers because they could mutate into evil turtle monsters.

Hey, its possible.