Enlightenment: the unbalanced server

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

It's dawned on me quite recently, although a lot of you probably realised this a long time ago (i hope) that event/alch items are not the biiiiiiiig thing causing unbalance in the server. While alchemy items such as the fhom and stuff do add rather a humungous(Sp) boost, i suppose, the only thing that needs fixing there is either alch ingredients get re-added, or the fhoms and stuff get taken away and the whining of their owners gets ignored. Either way, it isn't a huge problem.

The main big problem, that's causing platinum to lose it's worth and all non-event/alch items to become completely ineffective, is Enchant Armour and Increased Weapon Damage.

Think about it people, the problem with powerplayers isn't the fact that their level is too high and normal players aren't doing enough damage, it's because their AC/wc is too high and normal players can't even land a single hit!

The PPs sit there with at least +6 EAs on each of their items, while the attacks of normal people just bounce straight off them. After laughing at the lil' red writing saying "Failed" above player's heads, the PPs swing their weapon (loaded up with around 8 IWDs and a few EWs maybe) and the player is dead within say 5 hits. Another case is that the PP's weapon is so souped up with stuff and (his level comes here i suppose) so his WC is through the roof. This means that with each successive hit, you're immobilized, and so you can't hit back at ALL because of their high AC and WC. (Quick, someone make a band called AC<lightningbolt>WC)

This is fact, you may choose to deny it but it is fact
If EAs and IWDs were not about, then two major things would happen:
A)Normal players would be able to hit those who would otherwise have been impenetrable due to EAs. Event/alch items/relics will start to make a difference again, but only a -slight- difference. This would give their wielders an advantage, yes, but a fair one.
2)Players will do roughly the same amount of damage and will not be completely done over in 5 swings. Fighting will become fighting again, not just *swing swing* "Haha, pwnt!". Also, eventweapons will start to give a -slight- advantage. A fair one, this time, whereas otherwise IWDs just make things crazy-style unfair.

The IWDs are the reason i sometimes say a certain thing to normal players trying to buy eventweapons with every item they currently own. I say "Dude...eventweapons aren't any better than normal ones. they give like 1 extra damage, which makes absolutely no difference once you IWD them. Just stick with craftable weapons". With IWDs around then in the long run, you will have say 64 damage with an event weapon, or 60-63 damage with a craftable weapon. Doesn't make a lot of difference, especially with high AC of most players.

UNFORTUNATELY...
Yes, the big unfortunately is that unfortunately, this problem cannot be fixed due to the selfishness of the graalian population.
Getting rid of the IWD and EA scrolls would mean that you'd have to get rid of, or at least cleanse somehow, all the weapons and armours that have been EA'd and improved already.**NOTE: IF YOU DID NOT DO THIS, THEN IT WOULD JUST BE LIKE THE ALCHEMY ITEMS. NO CHANCE OF ANYONE ELSE GETTING THEM AND SO THE GAME BECOMES EVEN MORE UNFAIR**
Anyway, back to the point. The reason this won't ever be done is because all the selfish fatheaded players on GK, mostly the PKers and powerplayers since they wouldn't really be powerful without their EAs and IWDs, would whine and whine and female dog and female dog if their precious items got taken away.
If deletion of all Enchanting and Improved weapon damage was to take place in the near future then these lamers would sit there going "OMDGOFMGFS NOWAY WE SPENT AGES DOIN THIS UR NOT GUNA JUST GET RID OF IT".
Tough luck, lamers. I've spent ages trying to find EAs and IWDs for my stuff too. i've upgraded a weapon to be pretty powerful, but i'd still like to get rid of it all. The only reason you people don't want to get rid of it all is because if it were to go, you wouldn't be allmighty anymore.
You wouldn't be able to sit around all day and kill anything that crawled into Bmode, ruining their game. Awwww, such a shame how you wouldn't be able to cause unhappiness to everyone else isnt it

One last thing: EAs and IWDs are one of the set of items making proper money obsolete. Along with brutal maps, diamonds, and event items, these items are being traded around instead of money like it should be and was intended...if it's the ECONOMY you want to balance out, getting rid of IWDs and EAs might be one way to do it...

The only time when EAs and IWDs could possibly be removed would be when the reset happens, when the server is completed and finished. In other words, it will never happen. (No, this is not sarcasm).
While i know this will never get done, i still think it should be if you want the game to be balanced =/

[Zurkiba]

Get rid of levels and let people choose between the differnt weapon classes...

Then have a kingdom weapon which is slightly better...

Then War will be more fun and okie dokie!

[DragonX]

Why are all your posts insanely long...Nobody wants to read all of it (Though I did..). Anyways, you are speaking from the standpoint of a regular player without event items and such, but think about it if you were a powerplayer, would you want your weapons to be stripped of the IWD and your armor of the EA? There has to be a way to please the majority of the players, not just those who are weak and dare I say, lazy.

Everyone started out without anything. Whether you decide to work your way up is your choice. I worked my way up and I am kind of (not really anymore...) a powerplayer. I used to PK a TON (about a year and a half ago?) but then I stopped and I just leveled up just to beat maps easier. Removing EA and IWD would make it almost impossible to beat maps if you aren't around level 50 or so (I am level 38..).

[Well that's all I have to say about it right now...if I think of more stuff to say I will edit this.]

[Zurkiba]

Originally posted by DragonX
Why are all your posts insanely long...Nobody wants to read all of it (Though I did..). Anyways, you are speaking from the standpoint of a regular player without event items and such, but think about it if you were a powerplayer, would you want your weapons to be stripped of the IWD and your armor of the EA? There has to be a way to please the majority of the players, not just those who are weak and dare I say, lazy.

Everyone started out without anything. Whether you decide to work your way up is your choice. I worked my way up and I am kind of (not really anymore...) a powerplayer. I used to PK a TON (about a year and a half ago?) but then I stopped and I just leveled up just to beat maps easier. Removing EA and IWD would make it almost impossible to beat maps if you aren't around level 50 or so (I am level 38..).

[Well that's all I have to say about it right now...if I think of more stuff to say I will edit this.]

Some people dont want to exploit bugs though...

And I had a ton of money on 2k1... how did I feel about it being stripped from me? I was fine because it was for the better good of the server.

NOR should a person waste his/her life to enjoy a game

[DragonX]

Originally posted by Zurkiba

Some people dont want to exploit bugs though...

And I had a ton of money on 2k1... how did I feel about it being stripped from me? I was fine because it was for the better good of the server.

I never exploited a bug and I am doing great (even for leaving for 2 months.).

That's nice, but I doubt everyone has that same mindset. I mean, sure, I wouldn't mind a reset but I am sure Tec (level 92) and many other people who leveled up during the time brutals came out, would loathe a reset.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee
It's dawned on me quite recently, although a lot of you probably realised this a long time ago (i hope) that event/alch items are not the biiiiiiiig thing causing unbalance in the server. While alchemy items such as the fhom and stuff do add rather a humungous(Sp) boost, i suppose, the only thing that needs fixing there is either alch ingredients get re-added, or the fhoms and stuff get taken away and the whining of their owners gets ignored. Either way, it isn't a huge problem.

True, they aren't the big problem, but I do wish something were done with them. Like you said, either make them or get rid of them, but in between just doesn't work.

The main big problem, that's causing platinum to lose it's worth and all non-event/alch items to become completely ineffective, is Enchant Armour and Increased Weapon Damage.

I don't see how these scrolls are devaluing plat. :o

Think about it people, the problem with powerplayers isn't the fact that their level is too high and normal players aren't doing enough damage, it's because their AC/wc is too high and normal players can't even land a single hit!

If you want to be able to hit them, go level up, prepare a weapon to +7 or whatever, load on the EA's (you can buy them in stores for 1k each, that's cheap) and you can hit them, and they'll hit you less. Or, even easier, cast a spell. AC doesnt affect spells :P

The PPs sit there with at least +6 EAs on each of their items, while the attacks of normal people just bounce straight off them. After laughing at the lil' red writing saying "Failed" above player's heads, the PPs swing their weapon (loaded up with around 8 IWDs and a few EWs maybe) and the player is dead within say 5 hits. Another case is that the PP's weapon is so souped up with stuff and (his level comes here i suppose) so his WC is through the roof. This means that with each successive hit, you're immobilized, and so you can't hit back at ALL because of their high AC and WC. (Quick, someone make a band called AC<lightningbolt>WC)

Again, just make your own weapon, or get good with magic. Making your own wouldnt take you more than a week if you tried.

This is fact, you may choose to deny it but it is fact
If EAs and IWDs were not about, then two major things would happen:
A)Normal players would be able to hit those who would otherwise have been impenetrable due to EAs. Event/alch items/relics will start to make a difference again, but only a -slight- difference. This would give their wielders an advantage, yes, but a fair one.

Then people who are level 20 and people who are level 50 will have almost no difference, while one level takes significantly longer to reach than the other.

2)Players will do roughly the same amount of damage and will not be completely done over in 5 swings. Fighting will become fighting again, not just *swing swing* "Haha, pwnt!". Also, eventweapons will start to give a -slight- advantage. A fair one, this time, whereas otherwise IWDs just make things crazy-style unfair.

If you don't like the damage, get some +armour and +resists. Or, even easier, cast the armour spell on yourself a few times followed by some protection from ____ spells. When I do that, I the damage I recieve is waaaay lower. Try it some time. Of course you can't do anything about Gov weapons, but that's a god issue.

The IWDs are the reason i sometimes say a certain thing to normal players trying to buy eventweapons with every item they currently own. I say "Dude...eventweapons aren't any better than normal ones. they give like 1 extra damage, which makes absolutely no difference once you IWD them. Just stick with craftable weapons". With IWDs around then in the long run, you will have say 64 damage with an event weapon, or 60-63 damage with a craftable weapon. Doesn't make a lot of difference, especially with high AC of most players.

Some event weapons make a difference. They usually give extra bonuses to attacktypes, which helps against people who prepare against many types of elements.

UNFORTUNATELY...
Yes, the big unfortunately is that unfortunately, this problem cannot be fixed due to the selfishness of the graalian population.
Getting rid of the IWD and EA scrolls would mean that you'd have to get rid of, or at least cleanse somehow, all the weapons and armours that have been EA'd and improved already.**NOTE: IF YOU DID NOT DO THIS, THEN IT WOULD JUST BE LIKE THE ALCHEMY ITEMS. NO CHANCE OF ANYONE ELSE GETTING THEM AND SO THE GAME BECOMES EVEN MORE UNFAIR**

No and no. The scrolls are fine, just get some yourself, they aren't that hard to find in stores.

Anyway, back to the point. The reason this won't ever be done is because all the selfish fatheaded players on GK, mostly the PKers and powerplayers since they wouldn't really be powerful without their EAs and IWDs, would whine and whine and female dog and female dog if their precious items got taken away.

If you're going to complain about balance, look at something that needs it, like melee VS magic. There's something that needs balance.

If deletion of all Enchanting and Improved weapon damage was to take place in the near future then these lamers would sit there going "OMDGOFMGFS NOWAY WE SPENT AGES DOIN THIS UR NOT GUNA JUST GET RID OF IT".
Tough luck, lamers. I've spent ages trying to find EAs and IWDs for my stuff too. i've upgraded a weapon to be pretty powerful, but i'd still like to get rid of it all. The only reason you people don't want to get rid of it all is because if it were to go, you wouldn't be allmighty anymore.
You wouldn't be able to sit around all day and kill anything that crawled into Bmode, ruining their game. Awwww, such a shame how you wouldn't be able to cause unhappiness to everyone else isnt it

First, people spend hundreds of hours to become 'allmighty'. If you spend that much time to a game, you deserve it. Just like in another game I play, my friend devotes all his time to it and gets 3 levels a day, while I spend only a few hours at it and get 1 level every 3 days. You shouldn't handicap people who want to play the game, and you shouldn't complain when they're so much stronger than you, if you don't spend as much time as them. Obviously more playing = stronger player. It's like that in every game. live with it.
Second, not everyone with massive levels goes out and PKs everyone around them, and for those that do, that is fine. Battle Mode is exactly that - battle.

One last thing: EAs and IWDs are one of the set of items making proper money obsolete. Along with brutal maps, diamonds, and event items, these items are being traded around instead of money like it should be and was intended...if it's the ECONOMY you want to balance out, getting rid of IWDs and EAs might be one way to do it...

People aren't going to trade something of high value for plat, they want something that has value to them. Sure, some people pay money (IRL) for things, some people trade stocks, some people barter (my hat for your sunglasses). I buy lots of things with money, so it obviously isn't obsolete.

The only time when EAs and IWDs could possibly be removed would be when the reset happens, when the server is completed and finished. In other words, it will never happen. (No, this is not sarcasm).
While i know this will never get done, i still think it should be if you want the game to be balanced =/

Like I said, if you want to loock at balance (and the lack thereof), look at melee vs magic.

[Satrek2000]

The only thing removing IWDs and EAs would do is to remove some diversity. There are two ways to balance - one is to chop everything down to ground level - the other, better one in my opinion, would be to leave these scrolls, then re-add alchemy recipes or craftability for the random alchemy items with reasonable ingredients, a proper war-system, and maybe a skill-practice-system Stefan suggested in another thread. No reset, it's just life when someone else was there earlier to get a chance someone else did not. That doesn't keep people from rping, and after all, this is what GK is about.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by graaliholic


No and no. The scrolls are fine, just get some yourself, they aren't that hard to find in stores.

Uh, yes they are. The reason i say this is because:
A)You need lots and lots of plat. Once you have the plat, and im talking lots here, you have to sit there for ages buying up useless scrolls until you get one, and most of the time it comes up with like ISBs or something.
B)The powerplayers are usually the ones who have all this plat (not due to them being powerplayers, really. i can get lots of plat too. Perhaps this bit is due to laziness). Anyway, they DO sit at the shops and buy everything up, and when they get to EAs and IWDs they buy them, even when they don't need them. They do this so that they can go off and trade them for other items that most players don't have.

Or, if an EA does miraculously just get put up as a restock by the shop, the powerplayers get to them first most of the time. It is not easy to get these scrolls, no matter how hard you try.
I am not a lazy player. I try and try and try, i have built myself up quite well, i'm like lvl24 now which is quite an acomplishment for me. I've got a powerful weapon now, but it's taken a few months to fill all the slots (no, i haven't been spending ALL the time looking for scrolls). But now i have no AC so its useless, so im trying to get EAs now but it's -hard-. HARD.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee
Uh, yes they are. The reason i say this is because:
A)You need lots and lots of plat. Once you have the plat, and im talking lots here, you have to sit there for ages buying up useless scrolls until you get one, and most of the time it comes up with like ISBs or something.

You don't have to load up on useless scrolls, just wander around, store to store, and when you find it, you buy it, and continue walking.

B)The powerplayers are usually the ones who have all this plat (not due to them being powerplayers, really. i can get lots of plat too. Perhaps this bit is due to laziness). Anyway, they DO sit at the shops and buy everything up, and when they get to EAs and IWDs they buy them, even when they don't need them. They do this so that they can go off and trade them for other items that most players don't have.

Okay, how would they buy the scroll before you, if you're just sitting in front of a pile of scrolls, buying whatever appears? They would have to push you out of the way, which would take them more time than it would for you to buy whichever IWD or EA. Also, getting lots of plat is easy. For me, it's as easy as killing 2 lords (or having someone else kill them, it doesn't matter). then I take the tradable parts, get 2 of (magnifying lens/walking stick/glass sword), and bless them to +2. They then sell for a good 500 plat each, which will allow you to buy scrolls

Or, if an EA does miraculously just get put up as a restock by the shop, the powerplayers get to them first most of the time. It is not easy to get these scrolls, no matter how hard you try.

I don't consider myself a powerplayer (i haven't leveled in over 5 months :P) but when I have money on me and I'm shopping for scrolls, I'll just wander fron store to store, and if I don't see one, I'll go out and find more lord parts, bless, sell, and go looking for scrolls again in half an hour.

I am not a lazy player. I try and try and try, i have built myself up quite well, i'm like lvl24 now which is quite an acomplishment for me. I've got a powerful weapon now, but it's taken a few months to fill all the slots (no, i haven't been spending ALL the time looking for scrolls). But now i have no AC so its useless, so im trying to get EAs now but it's -hard-. HARD.

A good way to bust through the insane AC is to either find someone who can bless +2 to DianCecht, +whatever to Ogma, and then prepare the weapon with lots of EW scrolls. You'll get a nice WC boost (that'll help puncture a hole in their AC) and with Dian or Ogma, once you land a blinding or poisoning hit, their AC/ WC will drop, which makes things slightly easier.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by graaliholic


A good way to bust through the insane AC is to either find someone who can bless +2 to DianCecht, +whatever to Ogma, and then prepare the weapon with lots of EW scrolls. You'll get a nice WC boost (that'll help puncture a hole in their AC) and with Dian or Ogma, once you land a blinding or poisoning hit, their AC/ WC will drop, which makes things slightly easier.

No, for DC's blindness or Ogma's poison to take effect, you have to actually hit them, and even then the effect may not be put upon them on the first hit, which is near impossible to do with the ACs they have.
And what would be the point in pumping the slots full of EWs? That would mean there is no room for IWDs meaning you'd do less damage, which'd mean there wasnt a lot of point anyway.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee


No, for DC's blindness or Ogma's poison to take effect, you have to actually hit them, and even then the effect may not be put upon them on the first hit, which is near impossible to do with the ACs they have.
And what would be the point in pumping the slots full of EWs? That would mean there is no room for IWDs meaning you'd do less damage, which'd mean there wasnt a lot of point anyway.

You don't use the weapon to take them down, you use the weapon so you can hit them, lower their defence, then take them down with something stronger >.> EW scrolls are much easier to come by, and cheaper. You said you have a good weapon, you use that afterwards .

[Satrek2000]

How about this - lower the number of Improved stats Bonus scrolls - while some may use them, they're much too common as they are now. Also, who'll ever use an Improved Charisma Bonus?

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by Satrek2000
How about this - lower the number of Improved stats Bonus scrolls - while some may use them, they're much too common as they are now. Also, who'll ever use an Improved Charisma Bonus?

Yeah i think this could be a good idea if you mean "lower the improved stat bonus appearances and increase the appearances of EAs and IWDs" or something like that.
Scrolls like the Improve Power/Wisdom Bonuses shouldn't be lowered, because you need these to get high high high grace which i one day plan to do, once i've collected like 3948349082894 stat up potions to do it with X_X
But scrolls like improve strength and const and stuff are never used by anyone, so yeah get rid of them. More EAs and IWDs might mean it's easier for everyone to get them, but im not sure. It could just end up in the powerplayers having even more of them

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee
Yeah i think this could be a good idea if you mean "lower the improved stat bonus appearances and increase the appearances of EAs and IWDs" or something like that.

In general, that's what I meant. But I think the improved stats bonus scrolls should be equally common, except maybe charisma. After all, you need more IWDs than ISBs - an IWD requires a slot, i.e. a few diamonds. An ISB requires a slot and a number of stat potions, at least two, which aren't that common either.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by Satrek2000
How about this - lower the number of Improved stats Bonus scrolls - while some may use them, they're much too common as they are now. Also, who'll ever use an Improved Charisma Bonus?

Better idea: since hardly anyone will waste money preparing a weapon for stats (unless it's wisdom for grace), just get rid of the rediculously high potion requirement cost to use the scrolls. CF had tons of these potions, so it was fine there. But here, not everyone has an extra 50 strength potions, so lower it to just one every time or just get rid of the cost. Maybe then some people will prepare a dagger for dex, or a huge axe with strength.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by graaliholic


Better idea: since hardly anyone will waste money preparing a weapon for stats (unless it's wisdom for grace), just get rid of the rediculously high potion requirement cost to use the scrolls. CF had tons of these potions, so it was fine there. But here, not everyone has an extra 50 strength potions, so lower it to just one every time or just get rid of the cost. Maybe then some people will prepare a dagger for dex, or a huge axe with strength.

Sounds good. Like, the only area i -can- understand where they put potion reqs in was for wis/pow. Like, it is kind of ridiculous how it doubles each time, but if it maybe just added an extra potion on each time it'd be better. It would prevent people just going out and getting 50000 base grace by filling up 14 slots with IPB scrolls in an instant, but it would make it tricky to do.

Whereas getting rid of the str and dex and stuff ones would be coolies. You could lay it down on the tables and say "Behold! The axe of the titans!" or some crap like that. It'd be fun

[graaliholic]

I just had a thought about improve stat scrolls: since the costs only start going insane when you have no -'s you can improve a _______ of woe for 2 potions each, since the -'s counter balance the +'s you add. But the idea is: make scrolls that are the same (improve stat scrolls) and cost no potions, but instead add a minus to the weapon you're preparing, for balance issues, so each + to a stat, it would also get:
+1 Strength -1 Power (sacrifice mental power for physical)
+1 Dexterity -1 Stength (sacrifice strength for speed)
+1 Constitution -1 Charisma (sacrifice beaty for health)
+1 Intelligence -1 Wisdom (sacrifice knowledge for wisdom)
+1 Wisdom -1 Intelligence (sacrifice wisdom for knowledge)
+1 Power -1 Strength (sacrifice physical power for mental power)
+1 Charisma -1 Constitution (sacrifice health for beauty)

Well that's just my thought for today :P.

Edit: or maybe make it like a spell, barbs add the str, theives dex, alchs int priests wis knight con/cha (just because) and sorcs pow.. but limit like ea... the caster has to be able to make it, so a level 40 thief could add 4 to dex and a 30 sorc could add 3 pow, but together it would have to be like a combination of 4 of pow/dex.. something like that.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by graaliholic
I just had a thought about improve stat scrolls: since the costs only start going insane when you have no -'s you can improve a _______ of woe for 2 potions each, since the -'s counter balance the +'s you add. But the idea is: make scrolls that are the same (improve stat scrolls) and cost no potions, but instead add a minus to the weapon you're preparing, for balance issues, so each + to a stat, it would also get:
+1 Strength -1 Power (sacrifice mental power for physical)
+1 Dexterity -1 Stength (sacrifice strength for speed)
+1 Constitution -1 Charisma (sacrifice beaty for health)
+1 Intelligence -1 Wisdom (sacrifice knowledge for wisdom)
+1 Wisdom -1 Intelligence (sacrifice wisdom for knowledge)
+1 Power -1 Strength (sacrifice physical power for mental power)
+1 Charisma -1 Constitution (sacrifice health for beauty)

Well that's just my thought for today :P.

Edit: or maybe make it like a spell, barbs add the str, theives dex, alchs int priests wis knight con/cha (just because) and sorcs pow.. but limit like ea... the caster has to be able to make it, so a level 40 thief could add 4 to dex and a 30 sorc could add 3 pow, but together it would have to be like a combination of 4 of pow/dex.. something like that.

The first suggestion, now that i've thought about it, would be awesome, and would work really well in balancing the server. I was going to say it was crap but then i realised how cleverly you've arranged the stats.
It'd be good because it would mean the more physical power you gain, the more magical power you lose and vice versa, meaning no more excessive multi-classing. Good idea

The second one sounds nice too

[Satrek2000]

The idea is good, but I think you should add some cost for adding such a scroll - like 3 extra diamonds or whatever. Otherwise, you could always change your stats the way you see fit. Also, +wis -int sounds like too good a deal - sure, you need int to learn, but once you know the basic set of good spells, wisdom has a larger effect as it affects max grace, grace regen and prayer learning.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by Satrek2000
The idea is good, but I think you should add some cost for adding such a scroll - like 3 extra diamonds or whatever. Otherwise, you could always change your stats the way you see fit. Also, +wis -int sounds like too good a deal - sure, you need int to learn, but once you know the basic set of good spells, wisdom has a larger effect as it affects max grace, grace regen and prayer learning.

Yes, but it would be the same as constantly switching rings, which people do. Sure wisdom makes a nice bonus, but you do have to take the weapon off to cast spells, and then put it back on right after you cast, and if you want to melee a bit you have to take it off again... I think mostly people would use it to get the god spells/relics, which would really be a bad thing, maybe then people would start following other gods other than 90% on gov. people would go to bile or ogma for deseases, or aengus for his bow and defence spell (+30 resist all, yum ), or, if other methods of getting good wis and pow come around, brigid, for her nice gloves, awesome shield, and better spells .

[Ziro_Vitrudestec]

Ugh...it disgusts me to see ANYONE complain about an idea that will bring balance.

The fact is, if balance is going to be brought upon, people with the most power in the game are going to be unhappy if they're attatched to their power. This is the whole point of balance, people lose their power to come down to where others can "reach" them.

Yes, people may quit and complain about these issues. The fact is though, that with balance, you can have more players come to the server. Let's say, that, monthly, GK only gains about 4 new active regular players, and 5 regulars quit. And we'll say there's about 90 active players. Well, when there's balance, many may quit.... So let's say the game is balanced and people get mad. So then, 70 of those regulars players quit (yes, we'll say that 70/90 people disagree with the balancing, since by now, many of the good rational people who wanted balance have given up on Graal and spend their money more wisely on another MMORPG instead of wasting time debating to improve Graal.). However, now there's only about 2 regular active players quitting per month, and there's like 15 new regular active players coming to join our community monthly. And this count of 15 keeps increasing monthly, first month, 15 new people come, the second, 20 new people come, the third, 30 new people come.... This is what a SUCCESSFULL balancing-act would do. Basically, by bringing balance and doing all the effortless things that need to be done, but aren't done because people are afraid everyone will quit (reset...do some balance to the systems like class systems...bring back roleplaying, even better than Valikarlia's has ever been; afterall, this is supposed to be more "professional" than Val, so it should have to be "better").

So while you lose the current players, you get many more coming because the game was "fixed".

[Blue_Dragn]

Originally posted by Ziro_Vitrudestec
snip

Hrm, Ok, your theory is good yes....

Now what happens when these new players become really good players, and outweigh the origonal act of balancing brought on the server by exceeding all that was supposed to be with the act.

Thus they become the new breed of "powerplayers"

But then the new people who are joining are not powerful, and demand balance because there can never be a utopian balance in any game.

So what are you to do? Balance the new powerplayers, causing that group of 70 (using your theory) to quit, and then with high-hopes, hope that the next round returns in the same style?

The fact is, if your going to balance something, do it prior to the whole thing getting un-balanced, mid-way balancing isnt a good tactic, expecially if you have to attempt at it more then once, which is what would end up happening .

[DragonX]

Originally posted by Blue_Dragn


Hrm, Ok, your theory is good yes....

Now what happens when these new players become really good players, and outweigh the origonal act of balancing brought on the server by exceeding all that was supposed to be with the act.

Thus they become the new breed of "powerplayers"

But then the new people who are joining are not powerful, and demand balance because there can never be a utopian balance in any game.

So what are you to do? Balance the new powerplayers, causing that group of 70 (using your theory) to quit, and then with high-hopes, hope that the next round returns in the same style?

The fact is, if your going to balance something, do it prior to the whole thing getting un-balanced, mid-way balancing isnt a good tactic, expecially if you have to attempt at it more then once, which is what would end up happening .

EXACTLY, you read my mind!. As I was reading Ziro's post, my reply would of been nearly the same as yours. We think alike!

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by graaliholic
Yes, but it would be the same as constantly switching rings, which people do. Sure wisdom makes a nice bonus, but you do have to take the weapon off to cast spells, and then put it back on right after you cast, and if you want to melee a bit you have to take it off again... I think mostly people would use it to get the god spells/relics, which would really be a bad thing, maybe then people would start following other gods other than 90% on gov. people would go to bile or ogma for deseases, or aengus for his bow and defence spell (+30 resist all, yum ), or, if other methods of getting good wis and pow come around, brigid, for her nice gloves, awesome shield, and better spells .

(Are Brigid's items avaliable anyway? Ogma's bracers aren't...). I still think there should be some cost, not stat potions, bot something... say gems of great value, or a bunch of normal ones - say 25 pearls. Also, I don't think people would change gods just because they can get some high items. Most chose gods for the blessing, hence most will be Ogma and Gov while only a few follow DianCecht. The gods need some refined balance, in my opinion, and, say, 2 working relics each. But I agree, such weapons would be a nice touch... and I foretell that everyone will use mags with these scrolls so nobody can see them

Also, I kinda have to agree with the previous two posts.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by Satrek2000


(Are Brigid's items avaliable anyway? Ogma's bracers aren't...). I still think there should be some cost, not stat potions, bot something... say gems of great value, or a bunch of normal ones - say 25 pearls. Also, I don't think people would change gods just because they can get some high items. Most chose gods for the blessing, hence most will be Ogma and Gov while only a few follow DianCecht. The gods need some refined balance, in my opinion, and, say, 2 working relics each. But I agree, such weapons would be a nice touch... and I foretell that everyone will use mags with these scrolls so nobody can see them

Also, I kinda have to agree with the previous two posts.

No idea about brigid, but i know noone except Ed follows aengus because those bums didnt make the graphics/ganis/whatever for his bow...plus people aren't interested in the bows despite their coolness
Anyway, im still working towards getting stat potions to get 20/20 wis and power, and then crazy amounts of them to prep with power scrolls. it'll take like a year though

Also...has -anyone- out there got 300 base grace?

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by Satrek2000


(Are Brigid's items avaliable anyway? Ogma's bracers aren't...). I still think there should be some cost, not stat potions, bot something... say gems of great value, or a bunch of normal ones - say 25 pearls. Also, I don't think people would change gods just because they can get some high items. Most chose gods for the blessing, hence most will be Ogma and Gov while only a few follow DianCecht. The gods need some refined balance, in my opinion, and, say, 2 working relics each. But I agree, such weapons would be a nice touch... and I foretell that everyone will use mags with these scrolls so nobody can see them

Also, I kinda have to agree with the previous two posts.

I don't know why people don't follow other gods. Other people can bless weapons for you, and if you're following another god you can get their bonuses as well. Like DianCecht, you can get sunspear (like the rod), wraithful eye (sunspear effects, cone spell) and daylight (would be useful if graal had day/night). Also, alot of people on CF follow brigid. Why? because if the spells get finished here, they'll rock. Spells like peace, which just stops the monster from attacking and you get all the kill exp and a new wall, or wall of thorns, which on CF is actually a decent spell since you can stack them together for tons of effects. Also a shield that's better than all the ones out there, with a bunch of resists on it. Who wouldn't want that?

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee


No idea about brigid, but i know noone except Ed follows aengus because those bums didnt make the graphics/ganis/whatever for his bow...plus people aren't interested in the bows despite their coolness
Anyway, im still working towards getting stat potions to get 20/20 wis and power, and then crazy amounts of them to prep with power scrolls. it'll take like a year though

Also...has -anyone- out there got 300 base grace?

Lots of people follow Aengus, such as myself . I made bow gfx using the current bow gfx (from just the icon), but nobody will upload for me . Also, if you want to get your pow/wis up without spending a *ton* of potions, use a sword of woe. Sure you have to have an extra 2 potions to get rid of the - on pow/wis, but since there are so many other negatices, each other increase will also be 2 potions, until the +'s outweigh the -'s. Then the cost starts to get crazy, but by then you should have already filled all your slots or maxed one of those stats.

[Blue_Dragn]

Originally posted by DragonX


EXACTLY, you read my mind!. As I was reading Ziro's post, my reply would of been nearly the same as yours. We think alike!

Cool then, i never really have too many people in my head or someone who thinks alike

[GoZelda]

Originally posted by graaliholic

I don't know why people don't follow other gods. Other people can bless weapons for you, and if you're following another god you can get their bonuses as well. Like DianCecht, you can get sunspear (like the rod), wraithful eye (sunspear effects, cone spell) and daylight (would be useful if graal had day/night). Also, alot of people on CF follow brigid. Why? because if the spells get finished here, they'll rock. Spells like peace, which just stops the monster from attacking and you get all the kill exp and a new wall, or wall of thorns, which on CF is actually a decent spell since you can stack them together for tons of effects. Also a shield that's better than all the ones out there, with a bunch of resists on it. Who wouldn't want that?

I follow Leucetious, for RP purposes, and because he's cool - forked lightning rocks and his blessing brings some money :o 750 plat for a +2ed magnifying glass.

[Satrek2000]

I follow Bile, mainly because I like death attacks and sustenance - although I have kind of an relationship with Brigid - she makes the best gods from all dieties... Anyway, as it is now, I'd rather see some changes... her spells finished, and maybe some kind of defensive weapon - say a vine usable like a whip which can stun oponents for a few seconds. I think the problem aren't the gods, but the state of their spells and the grace requirements...

[GoZelda]

Originally posted by Satrek2000
I follow Bile, mainly because I like death attacks and sustenance - although I have kind of an relationship with Brigid - she makes the best gods from all dieties... Anyway, as it is now, I'd rather see some changes... her spells finished, and maybe some kind of defensive weapon - say a vine usable like a whip which can stun oponents for a few seconds. I think the problem aren't the gods, but the state of their spells and the grace requirements...

Brigid is great. But no weapons. So no vines! No weapons is no weapons.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by Satrek2000
I follow Bile, mainly because I like death attacks and sustenance - although I have kind of an relationship with Brigid - she makes the best gods from all dieties... Anyway, as it is now, I'd rather see some changes... her spells finished, and maybe some kind of defensive weapon - say a vine usable like a whip which can stun oponents for a few seconds. I think the problem aren't the gods, but the state of their spells and the grace requirements...

If brigid's spells ever get fixed up, you won't need weapons, trust me (then people will complain that her spells are too good, then they'll be lowered in damage, and then you will need a weapon, but hey, you'll be fine in that brief period with useful spells)

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by graaliholic
If brigid's spells ever get fixed up, you won't need weapons, trust me

Even if any fighter hitting you can keep you from casting? The main flaw in kingdoms magic system, imho.

[GoZelda]

Originally posted by Satrek2000


Even if any fighter hitting you can keep you from casting? The main flaw in kingdoms magic system, imho.

Get a horse? That repels all phys attacks, right?