War System.

[Khallos_2k2]

We need a new war system. We need wars. We need RPing on GK. Wars would get more people into RPing,I think.

This is one that I thought of:

Kingdom mode is brought back.

There are 3 different bells:
One for all the normal people: if you slash it and are level 10 or higher, you go back to level 10 while youre in Kingdom mode. If youre lower, you stay the same level

With the second bell, its for captains/commanders/ less important leaders. It brings them to level 12/13 if they are higher than 12/13,or they stay the same level if they are lower

The third bell is for the single leader of the army: it brings them to level 15/16 or lower if their level is lower

Players keep the same items etc (maybe? :/).
It'd be complicated to implement, but it would make wars one helluva lot fairer.
It needs som tweaking to make it better. Post your thoughts about this, and about other possible war systems,

[Muha_builder]

i really like the idea

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

This actually does sound like a -smegging- good idea! Maybe each person could have stats according to their level, or, (if we changed all the ranks around) rank.

So like higher up the chain of command, you have more stats, and at the bottom you have less.

The one problem that this could cause is that people would become driven just by the fact they get more stats with promotions and nothing else. Other than that, this is one of the best suggestions i've ever read. It's simple, makes sense, would clearly benefit RP-fighting, and personally i can't see how it could be that hard to implement...

[LaymanIX]

Curse you Monkeyboy, bless my bow!

And it was ME who said we needed wars in the "Lets destroy levels" topic. I should get credit.

My only idea was to give castles hp though.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

I will bless your bow, just PM me next time i'm on GK...

Also, hm, in the above post i was agreeing to the idea about bells and kingdom mode and levels while on kingdom mode, not that we need wars.

We don't necessarily need wars, wars would just attract more people that think: RPing = Fighting

[LaymanIX]

Fighting=Good.

Why do you think GTA is so popular? VIOLENCE!

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by LaymanIX
Fighting=Good.

Why do you think GTA is so popular? VIOLENCE!

GTA = a shooting and driving game

Graal = a MMORPG. MASS MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME.

If it was designed primarily for fighting it'd be a MMOBLAPPG. MASS MULTIPLAYER ONLINE BEING LAME AND "PWNING" PEOPLE GAME.

Kingdoms weren't put there on graal so that we could fight, dufus. Why would they have been, if we could fight already in the first place? They were put there to give us something to do, that something being roleplaying. Not killing each other. Killing each other came afterwards as PART of the roleplaying.

In short, wars are part of roleplaying, not the other way around.

[LaymanIX]

Ok ok, I said fighting=good, not fighting=Graal. Geez. Fighting is roleplaying anyways, I mean, there are only so many ways to rp on Graal.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Uh which is exactly why i said...oh for goodness sake, don't make me quote myself. just go and read my post again =/

[LaymanIX]

Well, I got the message you were disagreeing with me, but I agreed that fighting is roleplaying. I dunno.

[Zurkiba]

We've allready discussed a war system...

It would allow drawn out wars and such.

---

Everyone is given 3 lives on an event day. An event day is a day decided on by both kings to hold a battle and where. Battles are announced publicly a week before. We do this because 2k2's battles happen only when your side has the power and the enemy has one-two on.

This will put a purpose to the navy. They could defeat any troop transports coming in... or atleast a naval battle would come about.

Then when the invading party lands they can set up a field HQ on the shore. This comes by laying down a Field HQ Deed or so (only kings/generals can lay them down) and everyone who is participating in the war has to ring a bell or something to register.
Then they're given their three lives.

If they die and have lives left over... they lose one life and spawn in at the field HQ. If they have 0 lives then they spawn at their kingdom's castle. The defending party is spawned in Bomboria on main if they lose their lives. The victor is the last army standing.

[thelostviking]

Beside that i think there should be more people to add this stuff. Stefan is busy i accept that, most of his staff own their pws and dont work much for kingdoms and just use the rc to chat or whateba x.x.
there are quite a few good scripters or lats, there should be stuff like open hirings =/. to get more young talented people in or whatever.

[Splke]

The idea of all people being evenly leveled (fairness maybe) is kindof stupid... Dating back as far as I can remember (Roman Times XD) Rome had a huge advantage over their opponents, be that arms (men) or a great General... (using the name Maximus now, since I forget what his real name is) [Maximus] was Romes General for afew years, during which he always used a great strategy, horse-back riders from behind (most of the time brutes didnt think about their backs being flanked) while archers and foot-soldiers approached from the front, drawing their attention forward.... Easy kills. Fair? No, but effective yes...

The real problem is, every damn kingdom is allied...
Forest -> Dustari -> Zormite
Samurai -> Cresent Pirates

Thats preventing wars... you war Dusty, you get both Forest and Zormite, you war Forest, etcetc

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by Splke
Thats preventing wars... you war Dusty, you get both Forest and Zormite, you war Forest, etcetc

I think when we are able to do real wars (Zurkiba's system sounds greqt), then we can also have some heavy duty diplomacy.Have spies, saboteurs, diplomats negotiating these alliances again, heck, you could have a Duke of Dustari conspire with the Empress to "open the gates" to the effect that we get warned, but still have a proper war.

[Zurkiba]

Originally posted by Splke
The idea of all people being evenly leveled (fairness maybe) is kindof stupid... Dating back as far as I can remember (Roman Times XD) Rome had a huge advantage over their opponents, be that arms (men) or a great General... (using the name Maximus now, since I forget what his real name is) [Maximus] was Romes General for afew years, during which he always used a great strategy, horse-back riders from behind (most of the time brutes didnt think about their backs being flanked) while archers and foot-soldiers approached from the front, drawing their attention forward.... Easy kills. Fair? No, but effective yes...

Yeah... I saw that movie too -_-

...

If you want to learn about REAL strategy read one of Julius Caeser's Books, or Carl Von Clauswitz... maybe even Sun Tzu.

And strategy doesn't work on Graal... and the only reason Rome was able to win it's wars was due to engineering, strategy, and their laws for wars (Land Owners had to be soldiers).

And the flank attack to the rear wasn't invented by the Romans. It doesn't take a genius to figure out 'We could attack them on their rear to surround them'.

[zell12]

Stefan had a cool idea. Each kingdom gets 50 lives or such. Each king has a "crystal" which can be placed anywhere. When one of their members die they respawn at the crystal. So it is best newbies at low level don't go into the war because then they will waste the lives of the oldbies and stronger players.

OR

If a player dies, their corpse stays there and for 1 minute onlyor such. Players with the reincarnate spell can cast it on them and bring them back from the dead. Like lets say Necromancers or Paladins.

[thelostviking]

Yeah but for that there should be no classes and skill limitation for several classes (like barbarians no literacy scroll and and and)

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by thelostviking
Yeah but for that there should be no classes and skill limitation for several classes (like barbarians no literacy scroll and and and)

I think we should have a proper war system first, we can talk about class-stuff later, and I personally think the bottleneck is the system, not the participating classes.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by Splke
The idea of all people being evenly leveled (fairness maybe) is kindof stupid... Dating back as far as I can remember (Roman Times XD) Rome had a huge advantage over their opponents, be that arms (men) or a great General... (using the name Maximus now, since I forget what his real name is) [Maximus] was Romes General for afew years, during which he always used a great strategy, horse-back riders from behind (most of the time brutes didnt think about their backs being flanked) while archers and foot-soldiers approached from the front, drawing their attention forward.... Easy kills. Fair? No, but effective yes...

So, in summary all you're saying is that if you had two powerplayers in one kingdom, and like 15 normal players on another kingdom, and 7 of the normal players ran around and flanked the powerplayers, the normal players would win.

You're wrong.

Tactics aren't the issue here, power is. If the power of each player was even, then tactics WOULD be the issue, which is what we (especially people like zurky ) want. If all the players were even, it would be down to either how many people you had or how you used your soldiers, not what levels, leeto items and EA bonuses they had =/

[Splke]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee


So, in summary all you're saying is that if you had two powerplayers in one kingdom, and like 15 normal players on another kingdom, and 7 of the normal players ran around and flanked the powerplayers, the normal players would win.

You're wrong.

Tactics aren't the issue here, power is. If the power of each player was even, then tactics WOULD be the issue, which is what we (especially people like zurky ) want. If all the players were even, it would be down to either how many people you had or how you used your soldiers, not what levels, leeto items and EA bonuses they had =/

No, you misinterpretted what I was saying.

Maximus would be Tec, great general. I just added some intelligence, which Tec doesnt have (lol @ my wit). In-turn Maximus defeated the Brutes by himself one time... I think its recorded as 250 : 1... So, basically, those 250 are lvl 20's, and Maximus is a lvl 92 unstoppable machine... There you have Tec.

But Tactics are an issue. In the event of War, theres much one can do to beat those uber leet people... I would discuss it, but thatd ruin War Stratagies of my kingdom... SO ... In turn, there is one thing that can kill any player, no matter their level.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by Splke


No, you misinterpretted what I was saying.

Maximus would be Tec, great general. I just added some intelligence, which Tec doesnt have (lol @ my wit). In-turn Maximus defeated the Brutes by himself one time... I think its recorded as 250 : 1... So, basically, those 250 are lvl 20's, and Maximus is a lvl 92 unstoppable machine... There you have Tec.

But Tactics are an issue. In the event of War, theres much one can do to beat those uber leet people... I would discuss it, but thatd ruin War Stratagies of my kingdom... SO ... In turn, there is one thing that can kill any player, no matter their level.

A GIANT MAN-EATING POTBELLIED PIG! I KNEW YOU GUYS WERE HIDING SOMETHING!

*Runs!*

[GoZelda]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee


A GIANT MAN-EATING POTBELLIED PIG! I KNEW YOU GUYS WERE HIDING SOMETHING!

*Runs!*

omg spam

Well, there should be a great difference in levels. Maybe in war, there will be a temporary level cap. But it is true; Tec is rich and strong. This is, because he eats enough and can afford good equipment. Farmer Jack on the other hand, who has been called to war, is skinny and poor, and his only weapon is a scythe. Who will win? The rich Tec ofcourse!

This level difference is realistic, but it just has gone a bit to high. On the other hand, each kingdom has some PPs. If you can get your PP to kill all low levels before the other one does, then your PP can kill the enemy PP with the help of your own nubs

[Zurkiba]

Originally posted by zell12
Stefan had a cool idea. Each kingdom gets 50 lives or such. Each king has a "crystal" which can be placed anywhere. When one of their members die they respawn at the crystal. So it is best newbies at low level don't go into the war because then they will waste the lives of the oldbies and stronger players.

OR

If a player dies, their corpse stays there and for 1 minute onlyor such. Players with the reincarnate spell can cast it on them and bring them back from the dead. Like lets say Necromancers or Paladins.

Nah... wont work.

Wars are for everyone. Not just two pkers who are level 1000.

Crystal and Base Camp is pretty much the same thing. Only Base Camps are better... more RPish. The Base Camp would have like a forge, command center, and a barracks. And the defending team would have to destroy it with one on one melee fighting, magic would just be too easy to destroy the buildings.

The 50 levels per kingdom wont work... I stated it above. That would mean that only two top level guys will come in and pk everyone. So wars would become 2v2 or 2v3 instead of 50v50 or 100v100.

Revival wont work, it's too cheap.

[zell12]

When you are in kingdom mode, your level is changed and you should get special kingdom-only battle weapons and items. Each kingdom has its different restances and weaknesses, and specials.

Now, there are special armours for the king, then there can be 2 more places for royals, 5 for commanders, 10 for soldiers.

The system can be somewhat like that, right? So that in order to have a war, just about everyone must be on, both kings must agree, and a RP Admin or someone must be on.

[Splke]

Originally posted by Zurkiba



Wars are for everyone. Not just two pkers who are level 1000.

*coughs* 3 people, lvl 85 + K? Get it right :P

[deman1171]

::sniff::
All this talk about wars and crystals reminds me of Doomsday.. i loved there wars, with the crystals and the kingdoms, man they really knew how to have wars.. and there kingdoms, each one was actually unique, had different buildings, shops, castles, and things like beautiful music, falling leaves, having it dark..

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by zell12
When you are in kingdom mode, your level is changed and you should get special kingdom-only battle weapons and items. Each kingdom has its different restances and weaknesses, and specials.

Now, there are special armours for the king, then there can be 2 more places for royals, 5 for commanders, 10 for soldiers.

The system can be somewhat like that, right? So that in order to have a war, just about everyone must be on, both kings must agree, and a RP Admin or someone must be on.

Blend this into what Khallos said right on the first post of this thread, and i believe we have ourselves the perfect War system...and if any of you try to deny it, i'll fill you so full of jam! *Holds up slingshot*

Sereously though, having kingdom specific armours and weapons eliminates the -40 odd AC that a few players have and the odd 60-70+ damage they have on their weapons, and makes everyone equal'n'stuff. The levels just provide more balance, giving those higher in rank a little more strength because, yeah, as stated somewhere else on these bottomless forums, you wouldn't have say a weakling as the guy leading all the rest of the soldiers...

Originally posted by Gozelda
Well, there should be a great difference in levels. Maybe in war, there will be a temporary level cap. But it is true; Tec is rich and strong. This is, because he eats enough and can afford good equipment. Farmer Jack on the other hand, who has been called to war, is skinny and poor, and his only weapon is a scythe. Who will win? The rich Tec ofcourse!

Yes, true, but the scythe is still a weapon, and as long as the farmer manages to get a swing across before fatcat Tec sticks a sword in his gut, the scythe could still lopp off his head with a lucky stroke. This isn't so if tec's level is like 3483748937492784 and the farmer's is 1.5. If you're wanting realism and roleplay here, it shouldnt be possible for tec to be able to beat every other player on the field but one =X

[GoZelda]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee
Yes, true, but the scythe is still a weapon, and as long as the farmer manages to get a swing across before fatcat Tec sticks a sword in his gut, the scythe could still lopp off his head with a lucky stroke. This isn't so if tec's level is like 3483748937492784 and the farmer's is 1.5. If you're wanting realism and roleplay here, it shouldnt be possible for tec to be able to beat every other player on the field but one =X

Tec, ofcourse, wears a helmet ;o and who says that scythe is in such a good state (omg no blessings :o)

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by GoZelda

Tec, ofcourse, wears a helmet ;o and who says that scythe is in such a good state (omg no blessings :o)

Because the farmer makes his living off that scythe. If it isn't in good condition, clean and sharp, then the farmer can't cut his crops properly and so loses out. He makes it his business to be able to reap the harvest well.
Tec on the other hand makes his living from the taxes he recieves, and sits up in his castle all day eating chicken legs and getting fat while his sword rusts into the hilt.

[narkotic]

There are wars and there are battles.

What I saw with the Nighthawks was more of a battle than anything, and apparently this ONE battle has decided the fate of an entire monarchy and the control of the island that resided there.

A war is of course made up of several battles. Therefore, respawning shouldn't be too much of a big deal, although battles would draw out until one side gets bored and leaves. Perhaps have it a standard where if you die five times in a ten minute period, you're sent back to the unstick me point of the mainland.

I like the idea of death and ressurection. That would play much better, and could be restricted to priests only (not necessarily a learnable skill or something of that sort). Plus, corpses would be much more rp-ish as well. Have a bunch of dead bodies on the battle field (wearing the colors of their kingdom) and you could see the carnage and such.

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by narkotic
There are wars and there are battles.

Sure, but for one, they aren't really planned on the long run, and not as such based on dedicated diplomacy.
Also, the system isn't really fit for them - you can respawn just like than, while a proper system would prevent you from re-entering the battlefield.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by narkotic
There are wars and there are battles.

What I saw with the Nighthawks was more of a battle than anything, and apparently this ONE battle has decided the fate of an entire monarchy and the control of the island that resided there.

That's funny...are you sure that's what you saw? Because all I saw was a bunch of PKers pretending to be a Roleplaying group so that they could interfere with the kingdoms and PK all their members....

[narkotic]

Originally posted by Satrek2000
Sure, but for one, they aren't really planned on the long run, and not as such based on dedicated diplomacy.
Also, the system isn't really fit for them - you can respawn just like than, while a proper system would prevent you from re-entering the battlefield.

True, wars aren't actually planned, unless you're in the 21st century and in a recession, but I see no reason why they shouldn't be in this case. Everyone keeps boasting about RP this and RP that, why the heck are there so many treaties if RP is so important to the people in kingdoms? Treaties don't help much, except keep a PK fest from starting up. We're talking about war, however, which makes that point inevitable.

I agree that the current systems in place don't allow for a diverse war, especially with how respawning is handled. Perhaps make it so that you cannot have save point on any other kingdom rather than your own or the mainland? That would eliminate the issue real fast, and I am sure it wouldn't be too difficult to accomplish. Besides, what do people need to save a respawn location on another kingdom's continent anyway?

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee


That's funny...are you sure that's what you saw? Because all I saw was a bunch of PKers pretending to be a Roleplaying group so that they could interfere with the kingdoms and PK all their members....

I was a member of Nighthawks for a little over a week. They did RP some, but not enough to honestly be called a roleplaying group. Their origins, of course, were as a PK group, but they did try to fit an RP storyline into their history. In fact, I was speaking with the queen a few days before this 'war' about the history of the Nighthawks and having it written down. It looks like that time might have been wasted, however, since they are no longer a group.

I did leave before they disbanded to join the Crescent Pirates. It is fun to talk as a pirate, and they do it ever so often. That's more roleplay than I've seen in several sectors of the game so far, so all I can speak of is from what I've seen.

[GoZelda]

Mh... perhaps there should be some sort of system... if you're in a war and die, you get send back to your castle, where you must stay about 5 minutes to recover, then you can fight again. If you die again, 5 minutes is added to the recovering time. And when you reach the 30 minutes you are DEAD.

[Satrek2000]

I'd rather say kingdom leaders can nomitate certain regions as battlefields - say Dustari_North, Dustari_NorthWest and so on, for all islands except main. Now, a battle is set at crescent_west, so the combatants meet there and fight. If you die, you return to your kingdom's castle, but you cannot re-enter the actual battlefield.

[Khallos_2k2]

Originally posted by zell12
When you are in kingdom mode, your level is changed and you should get special kingdom-only battle weapons and items. Each kingdom has its different restances and weaknesses, and specials.

Now, there are special armours for the king, then there can be 2 more places for royals, 5 for commanders, 10 for soldiers.

The system can be somewhat like that, right? So that in order to have a war, just about everyone must be on, both kings must agree, and a RP Admin or someone must be on.

Hell yeah! It would even out equipment and levels. Places like Dustari might have loads of weapons because they're one of those sprawling medieval kingdoms with good blacksmiths etc, Samurai or Kurenai Joukai or whatever they're called would have one or two but really well crafted, ie like the Katanas of the Samurai caste, dunno about the other Kingdoms.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by narkotic

why the heck are there so many treaties if RP is so important to the people in kingdoms? Treaties don't help much, except keep a PK fest from starting up.

Are you going to make a habit of answering your own questions? :grin:

Originally posted by narkotic

I was a member of Nighthawks for a little over a week. They did RP some, but not enough to honestly be called a roleplaying group. Their origins, of course, were as a PK group, but they did try to fit an RP storyline into their history. In fact, I was speaking with the queen a few days before this 'war' about the history of the Nighthawks and having it written down. It looks like that time might have been wasted, however, since they are no longer a group.

I did leave before they disbanded to join the Crescent Pirates. It is fun to talk as a pirate, and they do it ever so often. That's more roleplay than I've seen in several sectors of the game so far, so all I can speak of is from what I've seen.

Sorry, uh, what did this have to do with my point about the nighthawks/TBC vs. Western Alliance?