Old Classic Server?

Questa · #1 12-23-2002, 10:34 PM

Quote:

5) Tyhm and his team have worked hard to bring you the old Classic server, we will officially open it for Christmas.

unixmad said this. can someone point me to a thread that tells more info about this? Or just tell me what he is talking about.

warp2ukew · #2 12-23-2002, 10:35 PM

remember classic how it started? Thats what they mean...I think.

Tyhm · #3 12-24-2002, 01:55 AM

Graal1998=1.1 levels pack, brought up to code/new format, systemic bugs from changes in language fixed, no further level changes will be allowed, no staff, hacking will be legal on this server. It'll be just like it was pre-LAT.

Questa · #4 12-24-2002, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyhm
Graal1998=1.1 levels pack, brought up to code/new format, systemic bugs from changes in language fixed, no further level changes will be allowed, no staff, hacking will be legal on this server. It'll be just like it was pre-LAT.

Client Sided and copyrighted stuff (Yoshi's house) free too?

XxxxneosoftxxxX · #5 12-24-2002, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyhm
Graal1998=1.1 levels pack, brought up to code/new format, systemic bugs from changes in language fixed, no further level changes will be allowed, no staff, hacking will be legal on this server. It'll be just like it was pre-LAT.

Whoa.. this should be interesting.

Tyhm · #6 12-24-2002, 11:23 AM

No clue on the status. It may be open only to Gold or VIP level access like G2K2, it may be open to everyone. It may be open permanently, it may be open a month. Everything's kind of airy as it's in an ambiguous space, a personal hosted world made by an off-duty staffer on a port made specially by the owners...it's both a test of the rental system and a special xmas treat...

LOA--Paul · #7 12-24-2002, 11:52 AM

How ironic, I am going to hack on the old server and I'm a GP on the current ;P

BUT!
Everyone is going to be going to all these hack sites.. MANY MANY passwords are going to be stolen when this server is released ;P

Tyhm · #8 12-25-2002, 01:58 AM

People that stupid deserve what they get, and there's a trainer built into the system.

Tyhm · #9 12-25-2002, 08:20 PM

Trainers are not legal. It is not in my power to make them legal. I personally am not policing G1998, nor am I appointing GPs to do so (as this predates GPs), and you can "hack" by saying things - 2 [shieldpower], 3 [swordpower], 4 [levelname] [x] [y] - but that doesn't give you carte blanche on G1998, and it CERTAINLY does not mean you can hack anywhere you like!

That said, some FAQs on G1998 -
"This is broken!"
Yes. It was broken then, it's broken now.
"This isn't fair!"
Yes. Nor was it fair then.
"You should fix this!"
No, I shouldn't. It's an authentic recreation. There's actually a version I spent 3 years repairing and removing copyrights out - it's called Graal: The Adventure.
"Can I be staff?"
No. This predates staff, or at least fair staff, and there's no sense reintroducing Judges.

Wang144 · #10 12-25-2002, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyhm
and you can "hack" by saying things - 2 [shieldpower], 3 [swordpower], 4 [levelname] [x] [y]

what do you mean by that? like during the game u can say shieldpower 3 and it will give u that?

LOA--Paul · #11 12-25-2002, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyhm
\\you can "hack" by saying things - 2 [shieldpower], 3 [swordpower], 4 [levelname] [x] [y] - but that doesn't give you carte blanche on G1998, and it CERTAINLY does not mean you can hack anywhere you like!

That said, some FAQs on G1998 -

Yes that's much better in my opinion, although I wouldn't consider that "Hacking" but still a form of cheating

And that FAQ reminds me of some of the current players, but it goes a little more like "THIS HAS BEEN BROKEN FOREVER, DON'T FIX IT OR EVER EDIT"

Darlene159 · #12 12-26-2002, 01:57 AM

This is sooooooo wrong
Yes, lets give the hackers a place to test their hacks, lets give people who make the hacks somewhere to test them.

And lets, by all means, watch the numbers on the decent servers drop as people go to a server with no rules at all so they dont have to follow rules

I dont friggin believe this............:grrr:

Milkdude99 · #13 12-26-2002, 02:11 AM

I know all the levels and have played them in the past , and yet you cannot enjoy the memories because of the "hacking and exploiting " that is going on there. Built in trainer? bah whos BS idea was that? Well since I cannot seem to make any positive comments on how it is up and how it is not being managed I will just shut up. Putting up the old levels to enjoy is a great idea but to let it go like it is isn't. That is the only positive thing I can find to say and is my 2 cents worth.

AlexH · #14 12-26-2002, 02:21 AM

I can't even get any of the "hacks" to work.

Anyway, hopefully if the server stays populated it will be a great PK server.
Level 3 sword and 20 hearts.
Fun, fun, fun.

Tyhm · #15 12-26-2002, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyhm
Trainers are not legal. It is not in my power to make them legal. I personally am not policing G1998, nor am I appointing GPs to do so (as this predates GPs), and you can "hack" by saying things - 2 [shieldpower], 3 [swordpower], 4 [levelname] [x] [y] - but that doesn't give you carte blanche on G1998, and it CERTAINLY does not mean you can hack anywhere you like!

I hate repeating myself.

Trainers, hacks, free testing, nooo.
I'm told Classic is the last nonNPCServ anyway, so what does it matter to you?

shieldpower, no, you literally say
2 3
and POOF, lizardon shield. Gotta setshield to a different image first is all.

As to the player losses to other servers - how do you think I felt when UN outshone Classic for like six months in a row? How do you think G2K1's staff felt when G2K2 was released? In any case it's temporary - people like it because it's new, but I'm banking on that this will prove an educational experience on the relative values of nostalgia verses bugfixing, ie that getting Old Graal back isn't nearly as much fun as everyone thought it was going to be.
Naturally this will be attributed to my fault for not fixing the bugs in the 1.1 pack or refusing to hire staff or refusing to upload anything, but I've explained such justifications.

dlang · #16 12-26-2002, 03:21 AM

level 3? X.x
use level 20

SaitoHajime · #17 12-26-2002, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darlene159
This is sooooooo wrong
Yes, lets give the hackers a place to test their hacks, lets give people who make the hacks somewhere to test them.

And lets, by all means, watch the numbers on the decent servers drop as people go to a server with no rules at all so they dont have to follow rules

I dont friggin believe this............:grrr:

I wholeheartedly agree.

Milkdude99 · #18 12-26-2002, 04:38 AM

Tyhm
What some of are saying is, permitting a PW to have "No Rules”is wrong.The PW is running ramped with cursing and sexual harassment and yet this goes against ALL Graal rules . Does this not go against all the Stefan and Unixmad are trying to do with Graal by making it a mainstream Family Game? Sorry but this is NOT a PW I want my kids playing and I am speaking as a Parent here and a paying customer. It is an insult to the memory of Graal the way it was because the things going on there now by no means reflect the way it was, I know I played then. This is a black eye to the Game and either needs to be corrected or taken down and I intend to push that this is done, personally to Unixmad myself, if I have to call him on the phone.

Tyhm · #19 12-26-2002, 04:55 AM

Shut it down if you like. The point of the experiment is really just to see if this is what people really want, since it's what people always claim to want - a Graal that I never spoiled.
In any case it's a server Unixmad is hosting, not a server Unixmad is running. The two are very different. IMHO this has proven so far that hosted servers need a special section for servers not endorsed by Cyberjoueuers.com and its subsidiaries.

And you let your kids play THIS game? It's no better on most servers from my reckoning.

And you think THIS is an insult to Graal's Memory? Be glad I don't have a hired Judge Pachuka to make a proper mockery of it all!

In other news - 1 [itemnumber] to drop an item on yourself.

Darlene159 · #20 12-26-2002, 04:55 AM

Tyhm, you missed my point or something....Whether trainer use is legal or not doesnt matter since there is absolutely noone to take care of the problem...the people on that server are telling everyone that there is noone running the game so they can hack all the want, because there is no staff....putting this server up is taking several steps back for graal and wiping out alot of what some people have been striving for...and I am pissed

I went on the server, and what did I get right off the bat? Killed many times by someone with a level20 sword right at the start...couldnt even move without getting killed...and the person laughing at me because I couldnt do anything about it because there are no rules there, or noone to enforce them....When he finally went away, I start having to put people on ignore because of pure nasty pm's...THIS IS NOT OLD GRAAL......I am not naming names, I dont know who did this, but it was the dumbest thing I have seen yet

Oh yea, and I dont mind losing players to good pw's...I do mind when we lose them to a server that is 200% corrupt

Tyhm · #21 12-26-2002, 05:14 AM

I did this.

It is exactly as I remember it, though with slightly older levels, when I joined three years ago during 1.28 or so.

You're not supposed to like it. It's not supposed to be fair. It's not supposed to push the envelope forward in terms of ethical progress throughout Graal. It is there to prove a point - that people say they want things the way they were, but really they want things the way they wanted them to evolve. It's a lesson in inevitability. One that seems to be taking, as 1998 sets and Classic rises again.

Milkdude99 · #22 12-26-2002, 05:33 AM

Look. its nice to see the old levels and walk thru and play them again, point is IF you can even get thru the level , most of the players on there have never even seen those levels much less have the same feeling about them as some of us do. Grossly unbalancing the PW in this manner is crazy , it is not the levels that are the problem, it is the fact it is mayhem , nobody can enjoy anything with what is going on there so whats the point? It only proves that without a Staff the PW is unplayable, I will only concede to that, its worthless if you can't play it and of no value in any experiment. An experiment is only as good as the enviroment you use to put the experiment in. This is an enviroment of mayhem so what value is it's output data? None as far as I can see, if there is please enlighten me to it.

_0AfTeRsHoCk0_ · #23 12-26-2002, 05:35 AM

I'm pretty sure Unixmad knows there is a "trainer" built into the system, I am pretty sure he knows no one is policing the server, I am pretty sure he knows what he has unleashed here. And by god, it's making Graal fun again. I even went on myself for 10-15 minutes to go on a seneseless killing spree, and by the way, when I was on I didn't see any sexual harassment problems or anything or the sort, things seem fine as they are.

Milkdude99 · #24 12-26-2002, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by _0AfTeRsHoCk0_
I'm pretty sure Unixmad knows there is a "trainer" built into the system, I am pretty sure he knows no one is policing the server, I am pretty sure he knows what he has unleashed here. And by god, it's making Graal fun again. I even went on myself for 10-15 minutes to go on a seneseless killing spree, and by the way, when I was on I didn't see any sexual harassment problems or anything or the sort, things seem fine as they are.

I am sure it does not happen every minute that you or anyone else is on , just because it didn't happen in the 15 minutes you were on doesn't mean anything now does it? And you seem to miss the point , how much do you think they are going to push the envelope with you online? Your still PWA and they are not ignorant to this fact nor are they to the fact of what you can do to them, even if it is not directly by you. I have had my say on the matter and really don't have any more to say , if Graal turns a blind eye to it , so be it.

Tyhm · #25 12-26-2002, 06:27 AM

There is no justice on G1998. There was no justice on Graal in 1998. It's a reenactment - this isn't some sugarcoated Pirates of the Carribean, this is real pirates in their natural habitat, painstakingly recreated. These aren't animatronic velociraptors, this is Jurrassic Park.

LOA--Paul · #26 12-26-2002, 07:41 AM

The people who complain about Graal changing really miss their newbiehood, not the actual levels, etc. By playing this more will realize that and it'll also be a bit fun to see the old levels.

Darlene159 · #27 12-26-2002, 07:48 AM

lol, well I have wasted the time it took to make my posts here, because noone got the point, or are just playing ignorant to it....good luck

Milkdude99 · #28 12-26-2002, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyhm
There is no justice on G1998. There was no justice on Graal in 1998. It's a reenactment - this isn't some sugarcoated Pirates of the Carribean, this is real pirates in their natural habitat, painstakingly recreated. These aren't animatronic velociraptors, this is Jurrassic Park.

Reenactment? Of what? Something that never existed in the first place? What you are trying to do in recreating Graal 1.28-1.39 by this Player World never existed , there was Staff and players were NEVER allowed to do what they are doing now, you and I have both played that era and know this was NOT the way it was. You may fool some of the people who didn't play those versions but we that have and were on Graal then know better. It was never a free for all like what you have created on G1998.

_0AfTeRsHoCk0_ · #29 12-26-2002, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Reenactment? Of what? Something that never existed in the first place? What you are trying to do in recreating Graal 1.28-1.39 by this Player World never existed , there was Staff and players were NEVER allowed to do what they are doing now, you and I have both played that era and know this was NOT the way it was. You may fool some of the people who didn't play those versions but we that have and were on Graal then know better. It was never a free for all like what you have created on G1998.

I wasn't around, but I imagine that you cannot take an exact snapshot or an exact date and say "There, THAT was Graal in 1998". It's impossible. I think the Graal 1998 server is basically a summary or an overview of what Graal was like during that time, including all the bugs, "cheats" and tiling and level errors that constitute Graal 1998 as memorable.

As for my job as PWA, I couldn't do a thing anyways. The server would instantly fail for poor quality, but then again it's a server put up by Unixmad, kind of like Graal Bomy moon or Graal Kingdoms. I can't review them, they are company servers.

davidpsy · #30 12-26-2002, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darlene159
This is sooooooo wrong
Yes, lets give the hackers a place to test their hacks, lets give people who make the hacks somewhere to test them.

And lets, by all means, watch the numbers on the decent servers drop as people go to a server with no rules at all so they dont have to follow rules

I dont friggin believe this............:grrr:

Well now actualy the only "decent" server is graal 2002 because not olny do they have very nice graphic but the players are not bord. I mean I go on a bunch of classic servers like Val and all the people do is mass and fight its like a lagy chat room. I say if you want players to leave a server with no rules make your server better and make it so they should want to play a server with rules. Because whats better a server with nothing to do and rules or a server with nothing to do and no rules? I think everyday when im working on Sanstrata would I want to play sans if everyone had crapy ass jolt bombs and it was like every other server with the same "graal gui and graal q menu"? I say no and instead I try to make sans different and maby make new kinds of bombs that are different and new guis and new q menus. For you see no one will want to play a server that has pretty much the same thing the other one has we need new things people "NEW" and im not trying to brag my server is not even done yet. But what I am saying is maby if each server were "different" and had a new sort of gui and q menu and almost everything that people would play a fun server with rules rather then server that will never be updated and is only for memory with no rules.

Lyndzey · #31 12-26-2002, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyhm
I did this.

It is exactly as I remember it, though with slightly older levels, when I joined three years ago during 1.28 or so.

You're not supposed to like it. It's not supposed to be fair. It's not supposed to push the envelope forward in terms of ethical progress throughout Graal. It is there to prove a point - that people say they want things the way they were, but really they want things the way they wanted them to evolve. It's a lesson in inevitability. One that seems to be taking, as 1998 sets and Classic rises again.

It would be better without these commands. People didn't just say "3 20" and get death sword before. They had to actually hack. Hackers weren't everywhere PKing like it is now...few people were able to hack the death sword (even though it was easy) and so there were small communities of new guilds that didn't use hacking.

Tyhm · #32 12-26-2002, 07:04 PM

They're welcome not to hack. However, as hacking was a major element of 1.0, this leaves me with two options - integrate it into the NPCs, or let people use trainers. Obviously letting people use trainers has a spillover problem, so I took the less accurate but more safe method of integrating it into the NPCs. It can't be perfect because it can't be ACTUALLY 1998. I can't make it any more complicated than it is neither because that'd just make the system NPC lag, which is kind of counter to the point - the system is to emulate a trainer, not Classic's loathed system.

When I played in 2000, I couldn't walk through level13 because I was cut down every three or four steps. This made things rather difficult as I also started in level13. I had to wait for it to quiet down before I could do anything, and then there was the obvious problem that there were no quests - from playing the java version I was passing aware of the gnomes, but once you got their heart nothing further happens. So it was and so it is.

Moonie - I get what you're saying, that G1998 sucks. I agree. That's the point. If you're that hard up for players that you miss the ones that want nothing more than mindless PKing with a godmode sword and infinite superbombs, however, you'll get no sympathy from me. It's only going to get worse when Hosted PWs come out and there are a million of these a day - however, hopefully this will have proven that Hosted PWs need their own tab to seperate them from Legitimate PWs, and thank you all for that insight.

James2k2 · #33 12-26-2002, 08:50 PM

For those who don't understand yet, the server is temporary. It was simply created to get people to stop complaining about the annoying changes Tyhm made in classic. The server was created with no staff, without the old ap system and cheating enabled just to ruin it for the players on purpose, and make them stop requesting an old graal server. It won't get people to stop playing the illegal 1.39 servers (many people that paid for graal before are playing those servers). If you want the old players to return simply: use 1.27 levels (without everything that is copyrighted), old ap system and ley people submit playerhouses (nothing that will change the main locations though). Making a sucky old graal server in purpose won't help you.

Questa · #34 12-26-2002, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99
What you are trying to do in recreating Graal 1.28-1.39 by this Player World never existed , there was Staff and players were NEVER allowed to do what they are doing now, you and I have both played that era and know this was NOT the way it was.

Well you obviously have your dates confused. in 1998 graal was in its baby stages (like 1.1.. NOT 1.28).

Tyhm · #35 12-26-2002, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James2k2
For those who don't understand yet, the server is temporary. It was simply created to get people to stop complaining about the annoying changes Tyhm made in classic. The server was created with no staff, without the old ap system and cheating enabled just to ruin it for the players on purpose, and make them stop requesting an old graal server. It won't get people to stop playing the illegal 1.39 servers (many people that paid for graal before are playing those servers). If you want the old players to return simply: use 1.27 levels (without everything that is copyrighted), old ap system and ley people submit playerhouses (nothing that will change the main locations though). Making a sucky old graal server in purpose won't help you.

Details. You people are just hell bent never to admit it's not the levels nor the lack of NPCs you miss, but your own freshness. I am never going to make a Graal in precisely the version when everything was perfect because no such version exists - for proof, try and get a unanimous decision on when that was. They'll all say it was before Tyhm, sure, but not WHEN before Tyhm. Before or after Pachuka? Onett? Olorin? GOPD?

This server is, if nothing else, definitely Before. Before what? That's less clear, but it's Before a lot of things. Before anything anyone ever *****ed to Tyhm about for one.
People flocked to the illegal 139 servers because they weren't welcome here. As a result a lot of these 139ers went down pretty fast as memory holds, often even before GraalOnline became aware of them. Mafukie, as I recall, was sickened by how many people assumed Not Graalonline meant Hack All You Want.

Don't like the chaos? Fine, you don't have to. There's a version of this server where all the bugs are fixed, all the tiling errors repaired, all the copyrights removed and a permanent staff. It's called Graal: The Adventure. Don't give me crap about how there's a third solution to this dillema, neither the horn of 1998 nor the horn of The Adventure. I know what you want; you want a server JUST like Classic along some point in its evolution, often shortly after you joined, but with you in charge of what gets torn out and what stays. If you can get 20 or so people who agree with you 100% and don't mind chipping in a few bucks every month, come back and I'll give you these levels (Unixmad permitting) to host your own damn server the way you think it should be run.

But as we live in a world of divergent ideas in an expanding universe, I find it highly unlikely certain details will ever find a true consensus. Only in generality is there agreement, and so we have two General Ideas: 1998, and "Classic".

Darlene159 · #36 12-26-2002, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Moonie - I get what you're saying, that G1998 sucks. I agree. That's the point. If you're that hard up for players that you miss the ones that want nothing more than mindless PKing with a godmode sword and infinite superbombs, however, you'll get no sympathy from me. It's only going to get worse when Hosted PWs come out and there are a million of these a day - however, hopefully this will have proven that Hosted PWs need their own tab to seperate them from Legitimate PWs, and thank you all for that insight.

No, no, no....I am not that hard up for players, I would much rather have a few players that enjoy the game while following the rules, and have respect for other people, then alot that do not...what I am mostly upset about is people being subjected to that corruptness I guess...and I also see that this is just a little before my time, so maybe there wasnt any staff, I dont know...
but this coming out on top of the talk of managers having to pay for their PW, and if they didnt have enough players, they would end up paying in the end because it wouldnt pay for itself...these 2 things combined was making me feel like I was going to have to throw the rules away and become corrupt just to stay up....because I cannot pay any more money out of my pocket then I already am...and I guess to see a server like that really upsets me, and I worry about parents seeing it. Obviously, I am an adult, and I can handle sexual harrassment, cussing, and whatever...but if a paying parent sees it???? Well, it all depends on the parent I suppose. I just hope you guys know what you are doing, and I hope this server doesnt stay up long

Tyhm · #37 12-27-2002, 01:04 AM

1) 1998 got the Shutdown order. It won't be around much longer, proving that a server without rules cannot survive long - if for no other reason than that the admins will shut it down. Steps are being taken so that future Hosted PWs will be seperated from Official PWs.
2) My reading on it was that extant PWs (such as npulse) will be allowed to continue exactly as they are, but all new PWs will have to be pay. No word on if new PWs can apply to be official, but as I understand it the only way for an Official PW to be pushed into Hosting is if there's a regime change, ie Tyne retakes managership of Valorklia and wipes all the levels, starting over from scratch - if it's no longer the PW that was approved, it ceases to be official.

Dark_Zeratul101 · #38 12-27-2002, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyhm
People that stupid deserve what they get, and there's a trainer built into the system.

That trainer was actully made by PACHUKA during the old days. He edited the source of the graal levels and added the code to make that built in trainer do things. That was removed when Stefan made the new versions.

Darlene159 · #39 12-27-2002, 02:17 AM

Thank you Tyhm both for you patience and info, I really appreciate it

Tyhm · #40 12-27-2002, 03:02 AM

Yes, and to replace the removed built-in Pachuka trainer there's a System NPC on G1998 which (ironically) emulates it in the most simple and least invasive way I could manage.