Let's talk about: Kingdom Battles.

[freddyfox]

Kingdom Battle Units:

While 2k2 may be great and fairly popular and everything, people on the internet generally think "p2p = suxxxxx" so kingdoms are at a lack of available allies to fight wars with. Therefor, I propose this system:


Getting Units:

-Each kingdom originally starts out with 3 available units for their disposal. As they get bigger and more powerful, they can purchase more units.

-Each Unit will cost around 600-800. (This is to prevent one-man funding units. Ghost has told me he can farm around 500 plat from the dungeon in 3 hours.) The units are compromised of one class and can have a total of 5 people in them each. For example, I'm George, King of Dustari and I purchase a unit. I have a few choices as to what type of class I want the unit to be.

Warriors:
Warriors have the highest HP, highest melee damage output, yadda yadda. These be the grunts.

Bowmen:
Bowmen, well, have bows. Arrows can be fired at the enemy units to fell great numbers.

Sorcerers:
Unlike the other units, there can only be three of these in one unit, and they take up the entire unit. They cast the magic, etc.

Cannons:
Unlike the other units, there can only be one of these in a unit and they take up the entire unit. They take around 10 seconds to load, but fire a cannonball that creates a small detonation which can damage enemies.

Ram:
Unlike the other units, there can only be one of these in a unit and they take up the entire unit. These are primarily used to knock down castle doors and the like. They can also careen through enemy units, but they miss a lot.

How are they controlled?:

Units are controlled by a unit commander. The warlord or the king can assign units to unit commanders. A unit commander can only have one unit active at a time. Commands as follow:

/unit deploy Deploys the current unit the unit commander commands. They basically appear at his current location and then go into the primary group format, which is a straight line.

/unit follow me The unit troops follow behind you in a straight line. Good for getting to the enemy base.

/unit guard me The unit troops form around you, protecting you from attacks. Good for transporting royalty.

/unit halt The unit halts and will stop following you.

/unit line up The unit forms a straight line as if you had just deployed them.

/unit face up/down/left/right Causes the unit to face up/down/left/right. Can only be used when the unit is /halted.

/unit charge The current unit in your command charges in the direction they're facing. This also puts them in attack mode.

/unit attack <guild> This tells the current unit to attack a member of whatever guild or kingdom when they're in range.

/unit stop attack <guild> Does the opposite of /unit attack. Takes the specified guild off your hate list.

/unit fire If you're using a cannon, a ram, bowmen, or sorcerers, this tells the unit to fire their current weapons at any enemies within LOS.

/unit cast <spellname> If you happen to be controlling a sorcerer unit, this sets the spells they cast. The better the sorcerer, the more spells they have.

/unit retreat Causes the current unit you have in command to come back to you. After doing this, you cannot deploy the unit again for another 5 minutes.

/unit polka Causes the unit to do a delightful polka dance, hopefully making the enemy commander laugh so hard he can't type in commands. Cannons and rams can naturally not perform this command.

[Ghost Pirate]

love it so much =)

the polka was pure genius

[freddyfox]

Besides level 8 one-man funding units, you might ask me, "Vermain, this is a terrible idea and I hope your soul burns in hades for it. How am I going to get the money to get a unit!? You suck."

Well, kingdom islands have towns scattered across them. These towns can produce revenue for the kingdom. They produce a certain amount of revenue from size, production, weather, etc. The castle also produces some revenue, but not as much as a township.

Towns can be overtaken by enemy units if there are no guards at the town, or if the guards are all defeated. There has to be a warlord there to replace the flag with their own. All money being produced in that town will be channelled to the enemy kingdom now.

Warlords and Kings can also deploy units to towns to patrol, with these commands:

/unit showtowns Shows all the towns that you currently own.

/unit <#> deploy <town> Deploys the unit number to the town specified.

/unit <#> retract Summons the unit back to the castle.

You can use the above stuff to add guilds to attack, etc.

Kaimetsu also had this excellent suggestion:

Towns generate units. Each town automatically has three units guarding itself, and three units towards the castle. The castle has a number of units that it generates itself. All the castle's units can be put anywhere. Thus units aren't bought, but rather come with the land. Money can be spent outfitting them, certainly, and erecting defense mechanisms like walls and ballistas, but the units themselves are free and they also respawn.

This is a good idea. Also, kings can purchase units, but at a higher price. The units would come slightly outfitted and be a slightly higher level then naturally produced units.

Kings and warlords can also train their units at a certain cost. Training raises the total EXP of the unit that has been trained. Units also gain EXP for defeating enemy units or enemy commanders. (More for enemy commanders.)

[Kaimetsu]

Six thumbs up to this whole idea ^_^

[AlexH]

Great idea.
Although the commands wouldn't they need to be altered so that you can only move your bowmen and leave your warriors at the front.

[feivel]

I like the idea because it makes battle more strategic the only problem is that means all the human members of the guild are all commanding stuff which is not good.

[Crovax_Dark_Lord]

Uh, these units, are they real people or NPC's? and I like being a lv8 funding unit
/edit I figured they would be NPC's

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by feivel
I like the idea because it makes battle more strategic the only problem is that means all the human members of the guild are all commanding stuff which is not good.

No, no, only the high-ups would be able to command troops. The kings and queens.

[Crovax_Dark_Lord]

I want to see us lv8+9ers who have worked hard for our levels to be rewarded with higher ranks or standing, I'm not some sad ultra ruler person, I just want to be a paladin... I already have piety... I should wait till kingdoms are established though.

[feivel]

Ok then if the king is commanding all of these units (which considering this isnt a birds eye view like red alert so this would get complicated) then what is everyone else in the kingdom doing?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by feivel
Ok then if the king is commanding all of these units (which considering this isnt a birds eye view like red alert so this would get complicated) then what is everyone else in the kingdom doing?

1) There'd probably be a strategy map of sorts that the king can use to direct the troops around.
2) The others would be supporting the troops, leading raids, that kind of thing. Units could be assigned to the control of individual players through the strategy map.

[Zach1]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


No, no, only the high-ups would be able to command troops. The kings and queens.

hrm, nah. royal family has no direct control over the army. generals/lutenants/captains even though these ranks change from every kingdom, they should command the units

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Zach1


hrm, nah. royal family has no direct control over the army. generals/lutenants/captains even though these ranks change from every kingdom, they should command the units

Meh, maybe they could give a person access but the major premise is that the leaders are in control.

[Zach1]

Oh, i understand.

[freddyfox]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


No, no, only the high-ups would be able to command troops. The kings and queens.

Anyone would be able to command troops, but the Kings and Queens would decide if you get any troops.

Example: I'm King George of Dustari again, and there's some pirates attacking a town, and only a few soldiers on. So, I give them command of a certain unit, let's say, unit numbers 2 and 3. (Bowmen and Warriors, respectively.) Then they can go out and fight against the enemies.

[Pith]

Originally posted by freddyfox


Towns can be overtaken by enemy units if there are no guards at the town, or if the guards are all defeated. There has to be a warlord there to replace the flag with their own. All money being produced in that town will be channelled to the enemy kingdom now.
[/B]

okewl a warlord would get on at late at night with no one on and easily beat up the guards and take all the enemy kingdoms moneys lelelelle

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by freddyfox


Anyone would be able to command troops, but the Kings and Queens would decide if you get any troops.

Example: I'm King George of Dustari again, and there's some pirates attacking a town, and only a few soldiers on. So, I give them command of a certain unit, let's say, unit numbers 2 and 3. (Bowmen and Warriors, respectively.) Then they can go out and fight against the enemies.

Yeah, that's what I was saying with this: "Units could be assigned to the control of individual players through the strategy map". Probably should've been more clear.

[feivel]

Ok I think NPC warriors on offense is bad,
I think being able to buy them for defense is good cus thats just like how we have aminals (yes AMINALS) posing a threat to enemies.

[BlKnight]

I prefer having the actual players fight not the players work to fund the npcs that fight for them. Kind of err pointless no?

[Er1c]

Using commands for these "units" would make them not only hard to control, but also extreemly hard to make. I love the idea, but it would be impractical to lead an army of units by telling each one of them a certain command...

If we had a command like

NPC Code:

---

setfocus2 level,x,y;

---

and maybe a command to set the zoom of the player so they could see about 4 levels at once, the mouse could be used to control the units or something, similar to Starcraft, Warcraft, and those other games.

[BlKnight]

But do we want our kingdom battles bought like warcraft?

[freddyfox]

Originally posted by Er1c
Using commands for these "units" would make them not only hard to control, but also extreemly hard to make. I love the idea, but it would be impractical to lead an army of units by telling each one of them a certain command...

If we had a command like

NPC Code:

---

setfocus2 level,x,y;

---

and maybe a command to set the zoom of the player so they could see about 4 levels at once, the mouse could be used to control the units or something, similar to Starcraft, Warcraft, and those other games.

Unfortunately, we don't have commands like that. I'm all for something like a war map that Kaimetsu suggested, where you could send your units, although I'd prefer there were commanders along with them. (After all, who ever heard of an army without a commander?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Er1c
Using commands for these "units" would make them not only hard to control, but also extreemly hard to make. I love the idea, but it would be impractical to lead an army of units by telling each one of them a certain command...

If we had a command like

NPC Code:

---

setfocus2 level,x,y;

---

and maybe a command to set the zoom of the player so they could see about 4 levels at once, the mouse could be used to control the units or something, similar to Starcraft, Warcraft, and those other games.

Horribly impractical, and not likely to be implemented. I already suggested the idea of a campaign map NPC that would do the same thing without using any new commands.

Originally posted by BlKnight
I prefer having the actual players fight not the players work to fund the npcs that fight for them. Kind of err pointless no?

The problem is the lack of roleplayers. This stuff would fill the gaps and add a strategic element to the whole thing.

[freddyfox]

this is not a bump.

[AlexH]

Originally posted by freddyfox
this is not a bump.

We believe you.
We all do.

[BlKnight]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


The problem is the lack of roleplayers. This stuff would fill the gaps and add a strategic element to the whole thing.

than why not have thinsg like these (NPC controlled characters) that do other jobs, liek cleaning the castle, or guarding the town, or being the blacksmith, or bartender. I think it is more improtant to have players do the fighting isntead of lag insfested battle fields with 1 player general and npcs.

Because players working to earn money for the npcs to do the fun and strategic things is kinda stupid, like we are the game controlled npcs and they are the players you knwo what I mean?

[freddyfox]

Originally posted by BlKnight


than why not have thinsg like these (NPC controlled characters) that do other jobs, liek cleaning the castle, or guarding the town, or being the blacksmith, or bartender. I think it is more improtant to have players do the fighting isntead of lag insfested battle fields with 1 player general and npcs.

Yes, what epic battles there will be with the 8 players vs. the 7 players.

[BlKnight]

There aren't 8 players. there are plenty enough players to hold good battles. Even more by the time that Graal Kingdoms is up.
Besides, what epic battles woudl there be with npc's fighting? NPC's can't rp if you remember. It would be more like football teams.

Player 1: Hey Player 2, you hear the news? our npcs beat the Zormite npcs last night.

I think if 2k2 isn't filled out nicely by the official release than maybe some sort of special one time offer is due, maybe a 2k2 only accoutn really cheap just to attract more players. I am sure Stefan would still make some money off of that.

[freddyfox]

Originally posted by BlKnight
Player 1: Hey Player 2, you hear the news? our npcs beat the Zormite npcs last night.

I think if 2k2 isn't filled out nicely by the official release than maybe some sort of special one time offer is due, maybe a 2k2 only accoutn really cheap just to attract more players. I am sure Stefan would still make some money off of that.

That's the thing, it won't fill out, it's about at its high right now.

And while there may be 64 people in Dustari, how many of them do you actually SEE online at a time? And what when a kingdom like Zormite gets most of its stuff up, who are they going to recruit? Not everyone wants to RP, and they'll be horribly, horribly disadvantaged.

[BlKnight]

Well I really don't think having NPCs doing the fighting for us is the answer to a difficult problem.

[freddyfox]

Originally posted by BlKnight
Well I really don't think having NPCs doing the fighting for us is the answer to a difficult problem.

Got a better one?

[Asuka]

Having the npcs fight our battles aren't going to help any. I mean the npcs right now have no strategic element to them at all. They follow the player and attack. They don't dodge, they don't parry, they don't guard. So basically whoever gets the most critical hits and whoever attacks first is going to win. Also, it's going to be a pain in the ass for the commanders to be controlling bowmen, sorcs, and warriors all at once. Usually they say charge and the people do the fighting. I don't like viewing battles i enjoy participating in them. I want to do the fighting not have a bunch of things scripted by eric do the fighting for me. pointless.

[BlKnight]

Even though Asuka basicly just stated what I stated before (except better) I bet any money Vermain will acknowledge his view as good and mine as invalid.

[freddyfox]

Originally posted by Asuka
Having the npcs fight our battles aren't going to help any. I mean the npcs right now have no strategic element to them at all. They follow the player and attack. They don't dodge, they don't parry, they don't guard. So basically whoever gets the most critical hits and whoever attacks first is going to win. Also, it's going to be a pain in the ass for the commanders to be controlling bowmen, sorcs, and warriors all at once. Usually they say charge and the people do the fighting. I don't like viewing battles i enjoy participating in them. I want to do the fighting not have a bunch of things scripted by eric do the fighting for me. pointless.

Just add in more commands to do that, it's simple. Or even put up a huge command bar.

And while, yes, it's great to participate in wars, there won't BE wars except for little 5 people skirmishes. You remember 2k1, hardly any fighting ever went on because there was such a severe lack of people. There never was a real war because the population was in such a pit of despair no one had enough members on. While I'd certainly like to be hopeful that more people will discover the wonderous gift of roleplaying, that just isn't going to happen within the lifespan of this game. I hate having machines fight for me too, but there isn't any other options then this except having the 5 soldiers from each kingdom hit eachother and run around until they die. Would you like giant wars with both scripted and human fighters, or boring, neverending skirmishes?

And yes, of course I'll acknowledge my view as good because it's my view. You acknowledge yours as good, I would bet anything on that.

[Admins]

I like the idea, it would be interesting to have npc soliders helping you protect your castle / trading island. Players should still be able to fight themself, but having some bowmens in the background shooting at the enemy can probably help

[Crovax_Dark_Lord]

Originally posted by Stefan
I like the idea, it would be interesting to have npc soliders helping you protect your castle / trading island. Players should still be able to fight themself, but having some bowmens in the background shooting at the enemy can probably help

Did you change my sig? again... is everyone anti-communist... bah...

[feivel]

Dude thats why more people need to be attracted to the game.
Most people only find out about Graal because they wonder upon the website, and although its nice having a small little community,
graal needs to expand! The only problem is there would be a huge horde of newbies running around. That can be changed. It is better to talk to a newbie and educate them to say "**** off ***got newb." I would not be the person I was today if someone hadnt taken the time to educate me. And for g-d sakes I was an ultra-noob. I didnt know how to talk or where to get anything so I just ran and started slashing at someone, they hit me back and then paused and started talking, I PMed them and they helped me out and let me join their guild (This was LordBrian from LOG, if anyone remembers his...) And you know what with his guidance I became the second fastest promoted member of LOG (He himself was the fastest) I was promoted almost two weeks after i joined, and i just kept getting promoted all the time since I was devoted and on all the time. So guys if your not to embarassed, when your at school or wherever tell some of your friend about Graal, tell them to check it out for themselves!

[Asuka]

Here's a solution, only players can invade castles. Npcs can't penetrate castles. they can help in the fighting outside but not inside the castles. Also, there are usually 50-60 players online why would there be 5-10 player skirmishes?

[freddyfox]

Originally posted by Asuka
Here's a solution, only players can invade castles. Npcs can't penetrate castles. they can help in the fighting outside but not inside the castles. Also, there are usually 50-60 players online why would there be 5-10 player skirmishes?

Because only 2/4ths of the 60 people online are in a kingdom. I'm all for what you're proposing, however.

[feivel]

Nah,
I still dont like it, I think NPCs should only be used as gaurds.