You're welcome, Eurocenter

[devilsknite1]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Also, just because they didn't ask us to do it doesn't change the fact that nearly all of the content on Graal was made by players. And I mean nearly ALL of it. Even Classic, before hosting, was mostly made by players. Zone was made by players before Stefan took it over and made it a Gold server. G2k1? A team of developers picked by Stefan worked on it, and I don't think they were paid. Same for New World(which most of the biggest changes to Graal came from, like the NPC Server and the NW format).

Doesn't mean that because we weren't asked to do it, that none of the people who worked their ass off deserves to be recognized for it.

I've learned quite a bit in the GraalScript area purely because of the higher developers on Graal (Fowlplay, Dusty, Ziro, Chris, etc) and to say they don't deserve credit to anything is like saying every server in Graal should be completely remade by the Eurocenter team and themselves only. That obviously would make no sense.

On behalf of a player / [sort-of] developer, I thank you all for creating material on Graal and letting players and rising developers learn and enjoy the game more... For free.

PS: I was actually able to make a script for someone for $20.00 before... The guy quit Graal and still owes me $35.50. Let's just mug him

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

Point proven. you want to know why Eurocenter stopped putting time in this game? Because of people like you who would develop for them. Where did that get you?

I think the iOS platform and other greedy ventures (http://games.eurocenter.fr/index.html) like that had more to do with Graal's lack of support not because we continued to develop.

Side note: Looks like they updated from the ugly blue thing it used to be, I guess they could afford better web developers now.

[sssssssssss]

To say its our fault that Eurocenter stopped developing for pc graal and that we stepped to far when we develop on servers they offer us to do so on is asinine. If the company was willing to offer the opportunity to do so, that doesn't automatically excempt a service provider and product provider from keeping up with the products and service they still provide, and trying to make them better. It also, being it's pretty much a 2 man group there at Eurocenter, doesn't excuse them from giving a thank you to people who helped keep their product going for free. Not to say it can't happen and people don't do it, just saying we are not the reason; they just don't really care enough.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

Point proven. you want to know why Eurocenter stopped putting time in this game? Because of people like you who would develop for them. Where did that get you?

That's the problem.
When most if not all of these servers were created, we believed we were making our own game, our own world to enjoy and play, now it has been literally stolen from us through a weak clause in Terms of Service. Why should developers like Dustyshouri, cbk1994, WhiteDragon, MrOmega, taylor, fowlplay4, myself and many others be stripped of credit for their success?
It's unethical, and like sssssss- said, it's asinine to even think of such a ludicrous alibi for their behavior.

I forgot to mention that Eurocenter lucked out on one factor, If it wasn't for the fact that they had such loyal as hell players, they wouldn't have even made it past 2006.

[cbk1994]

It is more than a bit annoying to see them abandon us even more than before now that they have a chance of making substantial profit, but I know I'm not the only one who can say that Graal has had more influence over my life than almost anything else—my future career will likely involve programming on a regular basis, which is largely thanks to the experience I gained developing on Graal.

It's a complex issue. I don't know where I stand on it.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

Point proven. you want to know why Eurocenter stopped putting time in this game? Because of people like you who would develop for them. Where did that get you?

Ya, I guess we just helped Graal too much. I mean, who wouldn't take advantage of our being too helpful?

[Umat]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Side note: Looks like they updated from the ugly blue thing it used to be, I guess they could afford better web developers now.

it's still ugly though...

[Admins]

It's funny to see people complaining that "graal is dieing" but once we get some players the same people say "They scam us" (ok they were doing that before too).
We are trying to hire people from the Graal player base and also create ways for devs to make money by creating or managing servers, this is a work in progress.

[Vinka]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's funny to see people complaining that "graal is dieing" but once we get some players the same people say "They scam us" (ok they were doing that before too).
We are trying to hire people from the Graal player base and also create ways for devs to make money by creating or managing servers, this is a work in progress.

Great to hear

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Stefan

We are trying to hire people from the Graal player base and also create ways for devs to make money by creating or managing servers, this is a work in progress.

Well, If that's true then if you need a gani artist, thinktank, or just a kind public figure, just let me know for I have an open calendar.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's funny to see people complaining that "graal is dieing" but once we get some players the same people say "They scam us" (ok they were doing that before too).
We are trying to hire people from the Graal player base and also create ways for devs to make money by creating or managing servers, this is a work in progress.

No one is saying you're scamming them. I think it's a matter of appreciation, or the lack of.

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's funny to see people complaining that "graal is dieing" but once we get some players the same people say "They scam us" (ok they were doing that before too).
We are trying to hire people from the Graal player base and also create ways for devs to make money by creating or managing servers, this is a work in progress.

Where are these players? They certainly aren't on PC graal. And what makes you think that Facebook graal will be a hit? This isn't 2001 anymore, there are THOUSANDS of other games like graal - with better graphics, support, and communities.

If you new anything at all about running a business, you would know that communication with your clients is essential. It's great you and Uni decided to drop by this week, but what about next week or the week after? You shouldn't be an impossible person to reach. Imagine if the Obama administration just went silent. The U.S. would be in the dark and I am sure much conspiracies and chaos would arise. The same is happening here. Want people to think Graal is alive? Give us an update once in a while, or heres one we can all agree on - Answer the ****ing question in the thread you post in. All to many times you ignore the main question of a topic. (Someone called Uni out on that earlier in this thread.) Use those things between your legs and people will begin to respect you once more.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by papajchris

Where are these players? They certainly aren't on PC graal. And what makes you think that Facebook graal will be a hit? This isn't 2001 anymore, there are THOUSANDS of other games like graal - with better graphics, support, and communities.

If Angry Birds, Farmville, other "crappy" flash games can be hits. I believe Graal is just as able especially considering a lot of Graal's success is related to the social aspect of it and basically one of the only reasons it's still around today.

[0PiX0]

Originally Posted by Stefan

We are trying to hire people from the Graal player base and also create ways for devs to make money by creating or managing servers, this is a work in progress.

This is news. I look forward to hearing more about this.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's funny to see people complaining that "graal is dieing" but once we get some players the same people say "They scam us" (ok they were doing that before too).
We are trying to hire people from the Graal player base and also create ways for devs to make money by creating or managing servers, this is a work in progress.

I think it's less about payment and more about the fact you're so detached from the developing community. You don't work with them as fellow Graal developers. You're not always here seeing what's being worked on and helping to push it along with your authority or giving them any sort of real help, there's no constantly being around to see what sort of things they need and what type of updates they - the lifeblood of Graal - prioritize. And then when updates like this come around, there's not even so much as a nod in the direction of the people who are really responsible, the ones who have been keeping Graal playable for nothing while you were off seeing how best to milk it.

You manage it like an already finished developing platform that no longer needs updates and marketing it like a kiddie, time-wasting game.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by Stefan

We are trying to hire people from the Graal player base and also create ways for devs to make money by creating or managing servers, this is a work in progress.

I guess I'll wait for this to be implemented before I start working on my server then.

If I can earn even just $100 a day from Graal that'll probably be enough to get me to quit my current job and work on a server full time.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

I guess I'll wait for this to be implemented before I start working on my server then.

If I can earn even just $100 a day from Graal that'll probably be enough to get me to quit my current job and work on a server full time.

LOL. $100 a day? That's a hell of a lot of money, and the way you're so casual about it... LOL. "I'd be happy with only $100 a day. I could buy bread with that. Stale bread, but bread."

LOL.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

LOL. $100 a day? That's a hell of a lot of money, and the way you're so casual about it... LOL. "I'd be happy with only $100 a day. I could buy bread with that. Stale bread, but bread."

LOL.

A server with 1000 players per day would only need 1/3 of those players to spend $1 per day for a 30% cut to make about $100 a day.
If you're managing/developing full time (8 hours a day) 7 days a week then $700 a week only works out to be about $12.50 an hour.

[Rufus]

Devs receive money for their help, or devs receive gelats for their help?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

A server with 1000 players per day would only need 1/3 of those players to spend $1 per day for a 30% cut to make about $100 a day.
If you're managing/developing full time (8 hours a day) 7 days a week then $700 a week only works out to be about $12.50 an hour.

Are you seriously developing 8 hours a day though? Also, you gotta think about server upkeep and other expenses on their end, and then the fact that you have a whole staff team too.

[Umat]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Are you seriously developing 8 hours a day though? Also, you gotta think about server upkeep and other expenses on their end, and then the fact that you have a whole staff team too.

I think he was referring as to if he was working fulltime at Eurocenter for a server. That was how I read it though.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's funny to see people complaining that "graal is dieing" but once we get some players the same people say "They scam us" (ok they were doing that before too).
We are trying to hire people from the Graal player base and also create ways for devs to make money by creating or managing servers, this is a work in progress.

I think a lot of people are just frustrated about how you piggybacked on the work of scripters, graphic artists, levelers, etc. and haven't offered a word of thanks. They're not asking to be paid.

[Admins]

Originally Posted by kia345

You manage it like an already finished developing platform that no longer needs updates

We are updating it several times each month (server-updates), moving it to faster machines, working on a new much improved client version etc.

[Chompy]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

i think a lot of people are just frustrated about how you piggybacked on the work of scripters, graphic artists, levelers, etc. And haven't offered a word of thanks. They're not asking to be paid.

qft!!!

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by Stefan

We are updating it several times each month (server-updates), moving it to faster machines, working on a new much improved client version etc.

I personally experience more lag than i recall in the past

[sssssssssss]

Stefan can u please read my pm so I can continue my server please? :o

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Are you seriously developing 8 hours a day though? Also, you gotta think about server upkeep and other expenses on their end, and then the fact that you have a whole staff team too.

You don't really need to develop 8 hours a day. Once the server is finished my role would be mostly support and probably bug fixing.

My idea is still to make that trading card game server. It's one of the few servers that would work as a cross-platform iPhone & PC server because there is no advantage for PC players. Also if Facebook takes off 1000 players would probably be low balling, and it could be many times more than that. I'd only need to make one or two new cards a day and release them as an update at the end of each month or on special holidays to keep things moving, so there would be very little development overhead.

And if I make booster packs buyable with in-game currency and with gelats there are bound to be lots of lazy people that just buy them with gelats.
And for holiday cards, if I give them away on the day and then make them buyable with gelats for up to a week after the day then that will probably rake in some dough as well.

Could easily be a very profitable server.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

You don't really need to develop 8 hours a day. Once the server is finished my role would be mostly support and probably bug fixing.

My idea is still to make that trading card game server. It's one of the few servers that would work as a cross-platform iPhone & PC server because there is no advantage for PC players. Also if Facebook takes off 1000 players would probably be low balling, and it could be many times more than that. I'd only need to make one or two new cards a day and release them as an update at the end of each month or on special holidays to keep things moving, so there would be very little development overhead.

And if I make booster packs buyable with in-game currency and with gelats there are bound to be lots of lazy people that just buy them with gelats.
And for holiday cards, if I give them away on the day and then make them buyable with gelats for up to a week after the day then that will probably rake in some dough as well.

Could easily be a very profitable server.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...1&postcount=14

[Demisis_P2P]

Patent pending.

[xAndrewx]

hmm i would prefer a bomy kinda server

[joel34]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

You don't really need to develop 8 hours a day. Once the server is finished my role would be mostly support and probably bug fixing.

-text-

Make it possible for players to bet against others in card battles, for ingame currency for sure. call it 'staking' or something. Eventually expand that to betting individual cards, even. If theres a risk in fights it makes the game waaaaaaay more fun.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

You don't really need to develop 8 hours a day. Once the server is finished my role would be mostly support and probably bug fixing.

My idea is still to make that trading card game server. It's one of the few servers that would work as a cross-platform iPhone & PC server because there is no advantage for PC players. Also if Facebook takes off 1000 players would probably be low balling, and it could be many times more than that. I'd only need to make one or two new cards a day and release them as an update at the end of each month or on special holidays to keep things moving, so there would be very little development overhead.

And if I make booster packs buyable with in-game currency and with gelats there are bound to be lots of lazy people that just buy them with gelats.
And for holiday cards, if I give them away on the day and then make them buyable with gelats for up to a week after the day then that will probably rake in some dough as well.

Could easily be a very profitable server.

My point was that $100 a day is a laughable thought, and no one should ever expect to "make a living" off of developing for Graal... and $700 a week is a great cash flow and more than most middle-class people make with a steady job. If I were to ever make cash off of Graal I'd expect the equivalent of "a little extra cash a week."

[sssssssssss]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

My point was that $100 a day is a laughable though, and no one should ever expect to "make a living" off of developing for Graal... and $700 a week is a great cash flow and more than most middle-class people make with a steady job. If I were to ever make cash off of Graal I'd expect the equivalent of "a little extra cash a week."

I would do it for like $15 a day, but I kinda suck compared to you.

EDIT: but the point you're making is, even though I just said that I'm still doing it for free, I do it with no gratitude or paycheck.

[Geno]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Devs receive money for their help, or devs receive gelats for their help?

silly ruf, Gelats are money!

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

My point was that $100 a day is a laughable thought, and no one should ever expect to "make a living" off of developing for Graal... and $700 a week is a great cash flow and more than most middle-class people make with a steady job. If I were to ever make cash off of Graal I'd expect the equivalent of "a little extra cash a week."

It's not impossible though. Look at the Apple app store and all of the people that made hundreds of thousands of dollars from single purchase apps.

The pay should definitely be a percentage to encourage servers to try and make as much money as possible. And if it's a decent percentage then there isn't any reason why somebody couldn't make a living off running a server across all platforms.

I wish $700 a week was middle class. Cost of living is redic. here compared to how strong our dollar has been for the last few years

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

I wish $700 a week was middle class. Cost of living is redic. here compared to how strong our dollar has been for the last few years

No kidding, with insurance as a diabetic, my blood check strips for my meter can cost 100 dollars by themselves and that's for 100 strips.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

It's not impossible though. Look at the Apple app store and all of the people that made hundreds of thousands of dollars from single purchase apps.

The pay should definitely be a percentage to encourage servers to try and make as much money as possible. And if it's a decent percentage then there isn't any reason why somebody couldn't make a living off running a server across all platforms.

I wish $700 a week was middle class. Cost of living is redic. here compared to how strong our dollar has been for the last few years

Ya, if you make your own app maybe you'll rake in some money... but this is not the same situation.

[SlikRick]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

I guess I'll wait for this to be implemented before I start working on my server then.

If I can earn even just $100 a day from Graal that'll probably be enough to get me to quit my current job and work on a server full time.

You are greatly mistaken if you think they are going to pay you while your server is UC. UC servers do not bring in players to the game and keep them there like the Gold, Classic and Hosted servers. The only revenue they bring in is the money you pay to get Gold Dev time, so you are better off starting on your server now in hopes of getting it completed and up on one of the tabs when/if this ever gets implemented.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by SlikRick

You are greatly mistaken if you think they are going to pay you while your server is UC. UC servers do not bring in players to the game and keep them there like the Gold, Classic and Hosted servers. The only revenue they bring in is the money you pay to get Gold Dev time, so you are better off starting on your server now in hopes of getting it completed and up on one of the tabs when/if this ever gets implemented.

If his goal behind a server is making money, it doesn't make sense to create the server until you know you can actually make money off it eventually.

It would be like developing an iPhone app in a world where Apple hasn't yet said whether developers will receive a percentage of sales and yet still planning to make money off it. After all, you don't get paid during the development of the app!

[Vinka]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

If his goal behind a server is making money, it doesn't make sense to create the server until you know you can actually make money off it eventually.

It would be like developing an iPhone app in a world where Apple hasn't yet said whether developers will receive a percentage of sales and yet still planning to make money off it. After all, you don't get paid during the development of the app!

Well, that's just a risk you'd have to take.

If you don't enjoy the process of developing it, it would be pretty pointless however.