New Graal Website

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

No, no. Not really. Do you really think a typical website design firm employs "careful market research" when designing websites for clients?

While I read that my jaw dropped.



The answer is - YES - of course they do!

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Using jargon like that just overcomplicates things.

FYI

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The answer is - YES - of course they do!

I have yet to run in to a typical design firm that spends weeks of doing market research, typing of pages and pages of webdesign analysis, so on and so forth. That is what "careful market research" implies -- something tediously professional, requiring some kind college degree to do it correctly. Obviously not something any of us can do. (But who knows, maybe things have changed since the last time I spoke to a webdesigner.)

All we need to know is that WoW is a medieval fantasy game, and thus has an interface using many textures. Zelda is a light-hearted, simply designed game, and thus the website has plenty of light colors and simple patterns. From there, your own creativity and knowledge of design trends are what you use.

Originally Posted by Stephen

FYI

Congratulations.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

I have yet to run in to a typical design firm that spends weeks of doing market research, typing of pages and pages of webdesign analysis, so on and so forth. That is what "careful market research" implies -- something tediously professional, requiring some kind college degree to do it correctly. Obviously not something any of us can do. (But who knows, maybe things have changed since the last time I spoke to a webdesigner.)

The company does their market research and the design company will propose designs based on the research results.

Some design companies do research their selves and sell market strategies to a business as a complete package (becoming much more popular). I'm not sure why we're discussing this, especially when the very first sentence of your initial post was to scold people for going off topic.




Essentially what I'm suggesting is a minimum of research and consideration should be done before a course of action is decided upon. I've done some research with Google Ads and tracking gameplay, but I don't think it's enough to suggest any serious direction.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

I have yet to run in to a typical design firm that spends weeks of doing market research, typing of pages and pages of webdesign analysis, so on and so forth. That is what "careful market research" implies -- something tediously professional, requiring some kind college degree to do it correctly. Obviously not something any of us can do. (But who knows, maybe things have changed since the last time I spoke to a webdesigner.)

He is kind of on the right track, but I think because of the way he's wording things and because he isn't really going into depth of what he is suggesting it's coming across as unnecessary. Websites are a major tool in marketing, so things like debating on what kind of market it should target does really need to be researched, you can't just assume. Perhaps Stephen should elaborate on what he means by "careful market research" rather than you two bouncing off each other.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

I have yet to run in to a typical design firm that spends weeks of doing market research, typing of pages and pages of webdesign analysis, so on and so forth. That is what "careful market research" implies -- something tediously professional, requiring some kind college degree to do it correctly. Obviously not something any of us can do. (But who knows, maybe things have changed since the last time I spoke to a webdesigner.)

I know some of the people that work at these places, and people who have been clients. They say that research is easily the biggest part of the process.
Clear Left
Happy Cog
37signals

And naturally, there are also the "careful market research"-esque, professional, and college degree holding Nielsen Norman Group, who are dedicated to UX and Web Development.


I believe any successful website is entirely dependent on research. Whether that research is "careful market research", professional, and college-degree-requiring, or is just spending time thinking about who you're targeting and how they will use the website, or if there is even a difference... you'll have to figure that out.


In my opinion, the direction on the website will inevitably have to go with how CJ plans on marketing Graal -- as one game, separate games, for players, or for developers -- if at all.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

In my opinion, the direction on the website will inevitably have to go with how CJ plans on marketing Graal -- as one game, separate games, for players, or for developers -- if at all.

I'm not sure if it's supposed to be discussed, but I'll let the cat out of the bag anyways:




Graal is pretty meaningless to Eurocenter, at this point - so much so that I've heard certain admins discussing it being free, or closed entirely. Regardless, I still think Graal could be very successful - even with a fee (which I feel is necessary for a successful, long-term, community).

If Graal's gameplay switched from profit from subscriptions to profit from micropayments (in game stores, etc), it could easily be self-sustaining, and more than that - profitable.

Wouldn't it be great if Graal Online was receiving enough attention to have paid developers? I don't mean community members - I mean people, in an office, with degrees, developing and supporting gold aspects of the community and game client.

Graal as a concept isn't bad - management has consistently shown a lack of experience and forsight in their business dealings, and as a result, is the only influencing factor in Graal's decline. (That's just my 2cents, anyways)

[Tigairius]

While I do enjoy the conversation topic, and some stuff here is true, in order to create as little friction in the management as possible, I think it's important to stay on topic and not argue with each other so much, because someone will end up saying something that goes over the top and then someone above me will get angry and the (potential) project will be foiled.

Basically, if you're only here to bash CJ or GraalOnline management, don't post; your posts will be deleted. If you're going to give constructive criticism, and not bashing criticism, that's more than welcome.

At this point, the plan is to create a good template for the Graal website. If unixmad/Stefan decide to decline the offer, then we can make an "unofficial" fan site out of it, promoting Graal from purely a fan base. So, if you're afraid to help because your work might not get used, there is a backup plan, and I hope to see a lot of help from the community.

If you're interested in helping at all with any of it (documentation writing, graphic design, html, php, [marketing] research, other things) please let me know by any means possible.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

While I do enjoy the conversation topic, and some stuff here is true, in order to create as little friction in the management as possible, I think it's important to stay on topic and not argue with each other so much, because someone will end up saying something that goes over the top and then someone above me will get angry and the (potential) project will be foiled.

Basically, if you're only here to bash CJ or GraalOnline management, don't post; your posts will be deleted. If you're going to give constructive criticism, and not bashing criticism, that's more than welcome.

well the fact that moderators and staff management will consider some things criticism and somethings constructive isn't my problem at all. it's not "CJ-bashing" to say that it should be their responsibility for running their game, or designing their website. if they get angry that we're pissed off then they can come tell us directly, and explain to us why it's a bad direction for graal

Originally Posted by Tigairius

At this point, the plan is to create a good template for the Graal website. If unixmad/Stefan decide to decline the offer, then we can make an "unofficial" fan site out of it, promoting Graal from purely a fan base. So, if you're afraid to help because your work might not get used, there is a backup plan, and I hope to see a lot of help from the community.

If you're interested in helping at all with any of it (documentation writing, graphic design, html, php, [marketing] research, other things) please let me know by any means possible.

a fan site? is there going to be a link to it from the graal website if it isn't used at least? ):

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Hiro

a fan site? is there going to be a link to it from the graal website if it isn't used at least? ):

Yes, I would hope so.

[Tigairius]

I know a lot of people really like this website from 2001, so I thought we would kind of base the template off of this.

We could sort of have the [attached] template except with a new banner, new entrance, and at the bottom of the banner it could say something like "Play the game" and "Make the game" instead of Graal Classic, Graal2001 and Graal New World.

Comments, suggestions, etc?


However, this may not be completely practical/professional looking, in which case, I really think we should try moving back towards this sort of layout.

In my opinion, this site was incredibly effective. It's still currently online sort of, http://graalonline.com/kingdoms/ but I don't think there will be any convincing unless we make something new.

[Devil]

The attached image was the better site.

[DustyPorViva]

I think the website should be based off of a header something like this:

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

We could sort of have the [attached] template except with a new banner, new entrance, and at the bottom of the banner it could say something like "Play the game" and "Make the game" instead of Graal Classic, Graal2001 and Graal New World.

It isn't very streamlined. Aren't we going for cohesion? I thought one of the problems with the current design (aside from being inappropriate) was that it didn't represent Graal. The design should be able to handle each popular server, rather than having to turn to completely different designs.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

However, this may not be completely practical/professional looking, in which case, I really think we should try moving back towards this sort of layout.

In my opinion, this site was incredibly effective. It's still currently online sort of, http://graalonline.com/kingdoms/ but I don't think there will be any convincing unless we make something new.

To me, this is the best idea. It just needs to be updated. Lose the interface (wood, metal), add some softness, some splashes of color. Kind of inspires me. Hm.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Kind of inspires me. Hm.

If you're able to come up with anything, post it!

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I think the website should be based off of a header something like this:

That's a fun drawing.






As counter-intuitive as it sounds, I would rather approach the website as business presentation than "fun happy game" (although maintaining a minimum of fun-happy-game mentality). The current site is fun-happy-game, and is entirely dysfunctional - although it's definitely a poor example of fun-happy-game.

I feel it's very important we win our customers over with a minimum of pretty graphics, especially since the majority of servers (graal in it's current state) are anything but...