Bring back Classic levels and hit detection?

[contego]

Originally Posted by strykertffd

hi.

And hey there contego.

Now before anyone goes "omg what did stryker vote!?", i'm not voting. Not getting my hopes up.

hey man <333

You should vote. It's your opinion. But it's up to you of course.

[BlackSolider]

So, according to you, "Classic" means using the levels from the early 2000s and never changing them at all?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by unknown

I can name people if you want, but I dont have to since theres a poll showing it. Let me know if you want those names.

Originally Posted by contego

If I were to go out of my way to make a pointless list of names for you it would accomplish nothing. However I can say there are definitely more than 20 players from that time line that now play Era, and Zodiac. These people couldn't get into Unholy Nation or NPulse because that Graal they know is Classic, and that Classic is gone.

Go for it.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

So, according to you, "Classic" means using the levels from the early 2000s and never changing them at all?

for the most part, yes...I mean, it would be nice to fix tile errors and thats about it. I understand possibly the development of an island for playerhouses and such, but leave the older levels alone. The only development classic needs is npcs, economy, and events IMO.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Go for it.

first off, half of btk is old and consistent players, so that sums that up.
but...even if I name people, you probably wouldn't even know them so whats the point?

[contego]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

So, according to you, "Classic" means using the levels from the early 2000s and never changing them at all?

Yes and No.

Improving things such as npcs, ganis, events, or quests to achieve items and such.

Come up with other events like Unholy Nation has Castle Wars, classic orginally wanted a guild wars area that was never finished.

These are projects that need focus.

Not the hit detection, tileset, and changing the playerworld.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by unknown

first off, half of btk is old and consistent players, so that sums that up.
but...even if I name people, you probably wouldn't even know them so whats the point?

Hahaha okay. There's like 13 active BTK members on Graal, and the majority of those players are not old Classic players. Go on, list these players.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Hahaha okay. There's like 13 active BTK members on Graal, and the majority of those players are not old Classic players. Go on, list these players.

Me
Contego
Hardkore
Dew
Player
Gori
Hiro
KDawg
Chaos
Dunez

Those are the BTK people who are active and were old classic players

Pendragon
KIO
Deacon
Heroin
Luda
Tom Chill
Leon Chill
Unknown Mirage
Solicitus
Core
Goten
Kasper Chill
Cell Chill
DecemberChill
Neo Demigod
PH@NTOM
Lithium
KOH
Itachi
Exodus

and thats just who i could think of who i see around on UN lately.

This list doesnt include the people who I could convince on my buddylist on aim who used to play or the people who might give classic a chance once they see the numbers rise in the serverlist.

[contego]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Hahaha okay. There's like 13 active BTK members on Graal, and the majority of those players are not old Classic players. Go on, list these players.

Another constuctive post. Rufus you clueless fk. Check out the most active Global guild on Graal. Please get your ADD in check and stay focused on the subject at hand. if you want to bash on BTK then please do so on a different thread.

And that post should have been deleted. Nothing to do with this thread.

[unknown]

Now that I think of it, why are you even being such a try-hard Rufus? Aren't you just one of these kids who sadly wasted the last 5 years since you started on classic? What do you even know about this game? None of you classic kids know anything, you don't even PLAY the game, you just sit and idle or chat. Dalton is a perfect example. Don't talk like you don't want the levels and HD back. Also, like contego said, look at BTK, if we brought just our people there, thats doubling your playercount, not to mention all the others we could bring possibly...

For your next post, I recommend you actually bring some logic.

[BlackSolider]

*cough* 31 people online atm. Is it that great? No. Is it enough to have some fun? Sure.

[dmhabe]

Only reason Classic has 31 people on at the moment is because we are all talking about it...I logged on everyone was sitting outside the Graal Online Bank talking.

[BlackSolider]

Oh because classic has never had 31 people online before.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

*cough* 31 people online atm. Is it that great? No. Is it enough to have some fun? Sure.

lol yeah, 5 of which are RC's....and enough to have some fun? not even, you're all probably idling as usual...

[unknown]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Oh because classic has never had 31 people online before.

sure they have, but these days its a real rare occasion think about it, its sunday evening, of course this will be your peak time. Back in the day peak was like 150-200. I'd bet money classic hasn't hit 100 people on at the same time since like 2003ish. I mean, when was the last time it even hit 50....?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by unknown

Me
Contego
Hardkore
Dew
Player
Gori
Hiro
KDawg
Chaos
Dunez

Those are the BTK people who are active and were old classic players

Most of these people are inactive or stroll on 'now and again' therefore they're not exactly what I was asking for. Out of 63 members this is hardly half of the guild either.

Originally Posted by unknown

Pendragon
KIO
Unknown Mirage
Solicitus
Cell Chill
PH@NTOM
Exodus

Inconsistent players that again, stroll on from time to time.

Originally Posted by unknown

DecemberChill
Neo Demigod

Inactive.

Originally Posted by unknown

This list doesnt include the people who I could convince on my buddylist on aim who used to play or the people who might give classic a chance once they see the numbers rise in the serverlist.

I guess that leaves us with 8 active players on your list that might actually play with changes made to the server. Though looking over this list, 5 of them already do.

Originally Posted by contego

Another constuctive post. Rufus you clueless fk. Check out the most active Global guild on Graal. Please get your ADD in check and stay focused on the subject at hand. if you want to bash on BTK then please do so on a different thread.

And that post should have been deleted. Nothing to do with this thread.

He made a pretty bold statement with no substance to it. Making this post a focal point, especially when it wasn't even directed at you, is what is removing the focus here. I don't see where I attempted to "bash" BTK; your member figures simply don't correlate with activity, which was what I was asking for.

Originally Posted by unknown

Now that I think of it, why are you even being such a try-hard Rufus? Aren't you just one of these kids who sadly wasted the last 5 years since you started on classic? What do you even know about this game? None of you classic kids know anything, you don't even PLAY the game, you just sit and idle or chat. Dalton is a perfect example. Don't talk like you don't want the levels and HD back. Also, like contego said, look at BTK, if we brought just our people there, thats doubling your playercount, not to mention all the others we could bring possibly...

For your next post, I recommend you actually bring some logic.

I'm trying oh so very hard by posing a pretty basic question. It's pretty obvious why I asked the question, and the responses I received from it pretty much support its reasoning. I am a player who played Classic for what it is, rather than leaving over safety blanket issues such as the default hit detection and old level packs.

You know nothing about the current Classic. You think that sitting around and talking is a problem limited to just our server? You're hardly "play[ing] the game" on Unholy Nation so what is different about Classic? Right, we're missing some old setting and an old hit detection, how did I not notice? You'd think it'd be new content that we needed.. y'know.. what the actual players of the current server have been asking for, but apparently that is not the case! What both you and Contigo are saying is hilariously delusional, and apparently you're the ones that needs to look into the logic behind the reality of the situation, not your worthless nostalgia.

[BlackSolider]

Quick thought.

Would uploading all the old levels + hd solve our problem of lack of content? That's the biggest issue right now with classic (at least imo); we have nothing to keep players online when events aren't being hosted, or for those players who aren't in events.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Most of these people are inactive or stroll on 'now and again' therefore they're not exactly what I was asking for. Out of 63 members this is hardly half of the guild either.

Inconsistent players that again, stroll on from time to time.

Inactive.

I guess that leaves us with 8 active players on your list that might actually play with changes made to the server. Though looking over this list, 5 of them already do.



He made a pretty bold statement with no substance to it. Making this post a focal point, especially when it wasn't even directed at you, is what is removing the focus here. I don't see where I attempted to "bash" BTK; your member figures simply don't correlate with activity, which was what I was asking for.



I'm trying oh so very hard by posing a pretty basic question. It's pretty obvious why I asked the question, and the responses I received from it pretty much support its reasoning. I am a player who played Classic for what it is, rather than leaving over safety blanket issues such as the default hit detection and old level packs.

You know nothing about the current Classic. You think that sitting around and talking is a problem limited to just our server? You're hardly "play[ing] the game" on Unholy Nation so what is different about Classic? Right, we're missing some old setting and an old hit detection, how did I not notice? You'd think it'd be new content that we needed.. y'know.. what the actual players of the current server have been asking for, but apparently that is not the case! What both you and Contigo are saying is hilariously delusional, and apparently you're the ones that needs to look into the logic behind the reality of the situation, not your worthless nostalgia.

half the guild being, we would bring half our guild. I was just naming the people who have played classic.

Inconsistent players that again, stroll on from time to time.

Whats your definition of consistent? The BTK members I named are pretty active other than KDawg and Chaos which we know why chaos isnt active. Funny I see pendragon, KIO, Cell, PH@NTOM, Unknown Mirage, December, Neo all on this week.

I find it funny you call it a safety blanket when it is what it is, CLASSIC, which means it shouldnt have changed, especially something as essential as hit detection which no other server has done. Tell me why they changed it?

I don't care about the current classic? haven't since about 2003-04 I wonder why?

I am not saying you dont need development, but theres no need to change the levels or old quests, though like I said previously in one of my earlier posts, I would be satisfied if even just the HD was changed and not the levels.

As far as development goes, you need to improve not on levels, no server really does, its all about EVENTS, NPCS, and possibly QUESTS, as well as some scripts here and there.

Do me a favor and define consistent and classic, because you're "Delusional"

Also remind me what you know about the current classic, level14? cause you guys never leave the same levels or even pk or spar.

[Luda]

Originally Posted by Luda

I voted 2 but I'd rather have a vote for "Bring back old HD and work on making the OW better"

yea

[contego]

Dufus,

Apparently to you, Graal is logging on 24/7 and arguing with people. This thread is meant to be productive and you are asking questions only to belittle the responces. You're a pathetic fk. And your posts don't deserve any responces.

Ares's post was removed and yet it had more to do with the thread.

[contego]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Quick thought.

Would uploading all the old levels + hd solve our problem of lack of content? That's the biggest issue right now with classic (at least imo); we have nothing to keep players online when events aren't being hosted, or for those players who aren't in events.

I agree. That's the issue though, all these years they've been working on this HD and the mess it caused rather than the content.

Step 1
Make the newbie spawn area in graalcity_outside_02.nw where it once was. So players see activity right away.

Step 2
Change tileset.

Step 3
Return HD to original status.

Step 4
List all issues this has caused for events, npcs, and scripts. Find temp bandages to fix these issues and then focus on long term repairs.

Step 5
Assign the repairs to development team. The Development Admin should be making sure that their staffs duties are being completed.

The problem is no one wants to start this because it will only get worse before it gets better.

[unknown]

I actually like the options NPC that lets you select the tileset you like.

[BlackSolider]

Comments on those steps:

Step 1: we need a way to differentiate between people new to graal and people new to classic. People from other servers shouldn't have to go through tutorial level since basically it explains how to play graal.

Step 2: tileset can be changed via *Options npcs in your inventory.

Step 3: some hd better than our current one plz.

Step 4 and 5: looks good.

[contego]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Comments on those steps:

Step 1: we need a way to differentiate between people new to graal and people new to classic. People from other servers shouldn't have to go through tutorial level since basically it explains how to play graal.

Step 2: tileset can be changed via *Options npcs in your inventory.

Step 3: some hd better than our current one plz.

Step 4 and 5: looks good.

I like your Step 1. Well said. We should have the option to skip the intro or go through it. Nice recommendation.

Step 2. tileset should be preset to what it always was and if you want to change it then go to *Options npcs in your inventory.

Step 3. Definitely no question about that fact.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Comments on those steps:

Step 1: we need a way to differentiate between people new to graal and people new to classic. People from other servers shouldn't have to go through tutorial level since basically it explains how to play graal.

Step 2: tileset can be changed via *Options npcs in your inventory.

Step 3: some hd better than our current one plz.

Step 4 and 5: looks good.

I 100% agree, and good idea with step 1.

BTW, classic is already back down to 20 and thats within like 30 min lol.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by unknown

half the guild being, we would bring half our guild. I was just naming the people who have played classic.

You specifically stated that half of BTK are old players of Classic that are active. They aren't.

Originally Posted by unknown

Whats your definition of consistent?

Dictionary definition.

Originally Posted by unknown

The BTK members I named are pretty active other than KDawg and Chaos which we know why chaos isnt active. Funny I see pendragon, KIO, Cell, PH@NTOM, Unknown Mirage, December, Neo all on this week.

Not one of these people are active players on Graal. Logging on once every other month is not active, and that kind of player is certainly not what Classic needs for a revivial, which I'm assuming you and Contego are trying to promote here.

Originally Posted by unknown

I find it funny you call it a safety blanket when it is what it is, CLASSIC, which means it shouldnt have changed, especially something as essential as hit detection which no other server has done. Tell me why they changed it?

I don't care about the current classic? haven't since about 2003-04 I wonder why?

How is Classic a "safety blanket" at all? It's a server, and it's supposed to be a game. There is reasoning all over the place as why it was or wasn't changed but I'm not really concerned with it as there is no point in arguing over the past. What I am concerned with however, is the current playerbase that has played all of these years (and those who joined during those years) being screwed over with even less content because of a few people suggesting that the server might be saved by a few levels and the default hit detection. If you are only concerned with the old Classic then stop trying to suggest things for the current, because old Classic isn't going to be brought back even if the levels and hit detection is.

Originally Posted by unknown

I am not saying you dont need development, but theres no need to change the levels or old quests, though like I said previously in one of my earlier posts, I would be satisfied if even just the HD was changed and not the levels.

As far as development goes, you need to improve not on levels, no server really does, its all about EVENTS, NPCS, and possibly QUESTS, as well as some scripts here and there.

There is a need to change the old levels and old quests, because this is content from 2000. Most of the levels and quests will first need to be restricted if they were going for a minimal release and it might not sound like much but it probably would be with the little resources Classic has. In addition to this, there has been such a long wait for content over the years that the old one is just not going to be acceptable for new players and there is a limited pool of old players to attract so we need them. Classic's quests never pioneered in their time, so bringing them back today is just going flop.

In order to integrate the hit detection the content that is currently up on Classic is going to need to be remade, therefore backtracking us even further. Classic has had a lot of players since the switch and the majority of those players disappeared because of the lack of content, not because of the hit detection or lack of old content. Those are real players who have real interests in the server.

Originally Posted by contego

Apparently to you, Graal is logging on 24/7 and arguing with people.

That isn't what we do on Classic?

Originally Posted by contego

This thread is meant to be productive and you are asking questions only to belittle the responces. You're a pathetic fk. And your posts don't deserve any responces.

My posts are entirely valid, and if you think they're not because they disagree with your idea then that shows a lot about your maturity and credibility.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by contego

I went on Classic and sparred and had no issues. I didn't "suck" however the fact remains that Classic is no longer Classic with the tileset changed and the hit detection changed. I'm not here to insult anyone and Laura it's unfortunate you're trying to taking this conversation in a different direction. Let's keep this this forum constructive and focused on to the topic please.

im not trying to start fight either , its just clientside is pretty much the nearest thing from when the server was in us

[unknown]

ok honestly I am not wasting my time because anything I say you try to twist even though its true. These people do play more often than you think. Also, your safety blanket is the new classic, like how I twist things like you?

Please post that dictionary definition. Consistent on a video game is like 2 times a week...which all of these people have been on more than that this week.

The old quests are probably some of the best quests I have ever seen on graal, challenging, long, makes them into a real game, and the items you got were great.

All this work you talk of is current managements own doing. Everyone warned them long ago what would happen, and it did.

I barely read any of your nonsense, you really are just here to bicker, not have a debate. Like I said before, you don't even PLAY the game. Go look up PLAY in your handy dandy dictionary, I'm sure its not defined as: Sit, Idle, Talk, Argue.

[BlackSolider]

Two times a week is consistent? Looks like we have different definitions. I lean more towards 4 times a week or so.

And as for "not playing the game", really classic doesn't have anything to "play", nor does it offer much incentive to do the things we actually have, which is another one of our problems.

We chat with each other cause, well, thats what people do. We occasionally spar or PK (some more than others.) We play events when they are hosted (most of us.) We used to play cards when things were even. Some people even bowled or played the mini game system (think gameboy on graal) when they got released.

But, like I said, theres no real incentive to do many of these things. Our HD kills sparring/pking. Events are hosted off and on (low playercounts or offline GCs.) Card game has gone to hell. Bowling/MGS are boring after prolonged use.

Chatting is the only thing we can consistently do, since theres always something to talk about.

So yeah, we got some problems.

[MysticX2X]

It honestly depends on how busy you are outside of graal.

[contego]

Rufus,

I'm open to disagreements. You didn't disagree your first post was "saftey blanket". Then you went on to ask for a list that you got and then you basically threw it away to argue. I do not come on Graal to argue, which you admitted to doing. I enjoy the game and the company. If you have a valid point to make I certainly didn't see it.

This shouldn't even be a discussion. I openned the thread with a question and a poll. You did not respond to my question ever. You simply enjoy trying to initate an arguement and belittle others. You question my maturity and creditbility; I could careless your opinion of it. Simple as that. I'm here to play a game and I would like to see the game I started playing.

For example, if anyone played the orginal Final Fantasy. It still exsists. Its the original, it cant be changed. As Classic should not be. They however make new versions but never changed the original. Zodiac, Era, Graal Kingdoms, and Zone are good examples of Graal evolution. Classic should not have been changed though. Otherwise it isn't Classic. That is my arguement.

[unknown]

I am done trying to get through to rufus and his twists, it is what it is, and we will see the outcome. If nothing works out, you guys who play classic regularly should find a new home server IMO. And consistent on graal when you have a life is 2-4 times a week IMO. Good day.

[Gotenks_Gore]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Not one of these people are active players on Graal. Logging on once every other month is not active, and that kind of player is certainly not what Classic needs for a revivial, which I'm assuming you and Contego are trying to promote here.

december does play zodiac on a regular basis, but idk about the others

Originally Posted by unknown

I am done trying to get through to rufus and his twists, it is what it is, and we will see the outcome. If nothing works out, you guys who play classic regularly should find a new home server IMO. And consistent on graal when you have a life is 2-4 times a week IMO. Good day.

honestly if everyone ditched classic there wouldnt be anystaff left to try to fill in the hole that was made where classic is on the playerlist

[Minoc]

Does it really matter who's active at the moment?
I believe activity of some of these people would increase, and some old players would return, if the server will indeed be restored.

Also, I don't understand why content from 2000-2004 has to be modified in order to appeal to new players.
If uploaded, it would be seen as brand new content by new/more recent players. It would also help differentiate Classic from the other servers.

[-Albus]

Bring back the old levels and old hit detection and build off of that. While the old levels/quests have been seen by a lot of people before, it would be brand new content for quite a few players like Minoc said.

What once used the be THE server to play on is just a waste of space with absolutely nothing to do.

[-Ramirez-]

Here's the problem, plain and simple. The current garbage scripts that're on the server make it difficult or impossible to re-add the old quests. The old quests WERE what made the server what it was in the past. Sure, the higher player count was a factor as well, but I would frequently be on late at night completely alone, or almost alone, still having fun with the quests that I had done 23094239 times and never got tired of.

Redoing the system scripts in an intelligent manner is the only thing that's going to put the server into a state where things can be done in an even remotely quick and easy way. This is what was going on 5 years ago when I was working on the server, but the current intelligent manager threw all that away and led the server into the wasteland it is today. Isn't he great?

As has been said, essentially starting over on the core of the server is going to make things worse at first, but it's a necessary step for recovery.

[unknown]

I agree with the last 3 posts.

Old content would seem new to players.

The quests were superb.

Classic might be hit hard at first but its a step needed to recover.

This has all been mentioned to staff previously by many people over the years, they just didn't care enough to make any changes and dug themselves into a deeper grave. Now its almost like the server could never recover, but theres always hope right?

[Tyhm]

Unique Elements that made up Classic -
it was Graal
it was Official
it was Free
it had Quests
it had pretty good hit detection for baddies
you could spar
(you could cheat)
it was all we had

Not everything can come back. Not everything SHOULD come back. It's not gonna break my heart if the old quests are adapted to the new way of doing things, but the occasional "Tyhm's NPC in jail" homage is just a cameo in a completely different quest, not an updating of the old quest.

For hit detection - having tinkered with Zombies for a bit, you can't count on Move or the Defaults for a damn thing anymore. I'm serious, you make the simplest possible script to "Move from here to there, wait until you get here or hit a wall and trigger, when you get the movementfinished trigger move from there to here, repeat" and it'll start to move, teleport into a wall, zip across the screen at warp speed, anything BUT sensible. I did something kinda clever with mine; I have the clientside set an arbitrary max speed, and if the X/Y suddenly jumps the clientside instead limits to that speed and catches up gradually; I also have the hit detection go off this clientside-temporary X and Y (i use showani instead of showcharacter, more freedom), have them dontblock and use custom projectiles - it's way more complicated than "just shut off the stupid custom movement system".

That said; I think if Classic's gonna be the ghetto Old Graalia server, it ought to go for the gold. Switch GPs from staff to a guild (if we want to have actual GPs, they become secret police); switch Hacking from A Bannable Offense/Using A Trainer to a metagame Weapon, switch the game from trying to recapture an age that was lost to actually satiring the culture that was lost. If the LAT wants to make quests, cool, you have my full support; but it's just not the same (ironically given how hard I worked to prevent this kind of thing) without somebody with a swear word for a name running across the screen trying to draw lewd pictures in goldgelats and shockbombs, pursued by three frantic "admins".

[contego]

Tyhm,

For clarification purposes, when you say; "it ought to go for the gold", I'm believe you meant the phrase "going for the gold" rather than making Classic a Gold Server.

As for entirely switching 'GP's' to 'secret police' this is going too far in my opinion. Having some kind of "secret police" is not.

Also, I agree, it is ironic that you'd want to allow a metaweapon. I think you're going back a little too far back in time when you want to see people running around writing things with gralat. Or running all over the walls. I remember those days and I'm pretty sure those were never supposed to be part of Graal. (Lord Chimp for example, aside from his LATing skills.)

The fact of the matter is Classic is not Classic at the moment. I think Classic should go back to being what it was meant to be and made to be. What you played a big part in making it Tyhm.

The current staff should be to adding to the existing content, not changing what is there. (i.e. economy, npcs, guild events, spar tourneys, events, ganis, or develop new quests to ADD not REPLACE.)

[dmhabe]

How is this argument still going? Look at the poll.