Graal iPhone/iPod: Will be released on Apple AppStore!

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Spark910

The reviews on the store seem to give positive comments? Other than the one clearly from a Graal player that is either you or someone with a similar outlook on Graal as yourself!

I'm just thinking it'd surely be online when they said it would have been if it passed the review on day 1? Or even if it didn't, I'd assume that it would have been online quicker than it was - which suggests some control by Apple over its delay.

Actually, the app had less than 3 stars on average. There was one or two good reviews.

[Admins]

We have said before that we submitted before the dead line but it wasn't approved, and we got a message a few days later where apple staff requested some improvements. In the mean time they approved Poker and Belote, so we focussed on fixing problems with those applications and adding missing features and planned to work on Zone later and re-submit it. Then suddenly last week they approved Graal Zone and Graal Zone+. The guys at Apple are probably not making those things because they have fun annoying companies, but they have a lot of reviews to do and apparently don't even have time to communicate why they do stuff. It seems the App Store is more made for offline applications.

Graal Zone had more than 60 reviews and more than 3 stars, even games like Monkey Ball have problems to get higher ratings. Sorry for those launch problems, but both App Store and Graal on mobile platforms are new so some problems were to expect I guess.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Stefan

even games like Monkey Ball have problems to get higher ratings

Yes, but Super Monkey Ball for iPhone is much better

Read my PM please

[excaliber7388]

Why did you send them a beta version in the first place?

[Spark910]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Why did you send them a beta version in the first place?

They sent what they felt was an adequate version, however Apple requested more improvements (according to Stefan's post).

[xAzerothx]

Originally Posted by Spark910

They sent what they felt was an adequate version, however Apple requested more improvements (according to Stefan's post).

Apple didn't test the application before they put it online? They could of seen the problems.

[WanDaMan]

Maybe we'll see an increase of the players soon (Online, not on iPod)?!

[Spark910]

Originally Posted by xAzerothx

Apple didn't test the application before they put it online? They could of seen the problems.

No one knows why it was put online if we're following Stefan's facts! They reviewed it (however they do that), but requested changes. Then, unexpectedly, it was available online without the changes as CJ decided to concentrate on their card games first!

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Spark910

No one knows why it was put online if we're following Stefan's facts! They reviewed it (however they do that), but requested changes. Then, unexpectedly, it was available online without the changes as CJ decided to concentrate on their card games first!

Mmm Hmm.
Graal was the only one of all the hundreds of apps out who experienced this problem, and it's the big corporation's fault, not CJ.
Riiiiiight.

[Vima]

OK, so whats going to happen now?
When will we expect Graal on available on iPod/iPhone?

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Mmm Hmm.
Graal was the only one of all the hundreds of apps out who experienced this problem, and it's the big corporation's fault, not CJ.
Riiiiiight.

Actually the App Store has been very buggy from launch, it sounds perfectly reasonable that Apple messed up.

[Spark910]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Mmm Hmm.
Graal was the only one of all the hundreds of apps out who experienced this problem, and it's the big corporation's fault, not CJ.
Riiiiiight.

You don't know that they were the only one to experience this, you are simply assuming that this is the case. You can't just make such a statement.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Spark910

You don't know that they were the only one to experience this, you are simply assuming that this is the case. You can't just make such a statement.

It's what excaliber tends to do. I'll quote Stephen:

Originally Posted by Stephen

You need to stop making content-free worldly statements ASAP.

[Kristi]

Originally Posted by Skyld

Actually the App Store has been very buggy from launch, it sounds perfectly reasonable that Apple messed up.

That's crazy. Apple has ABSOLUTELY NO track history of messing up on initial launches, ever.
//~sarcasm

You can't tell Cali the truth when it pertains to apple being flawed. He will just ignore it.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Skyld

Actually the App Store has been very buggy from launch, it sounds perfectly reasonable that Apple messed up.

Yeah, they had problems with developers putting spaces before their name.
To be honest, I haven't had any problems buying from my computer or the iPod.
I've had a lot more problems with graal

Besides, I haven't heard of other developers complaining about apple somehow getting ahold of your beta software and releasing it.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Yeah, they had problems with developers putting spaces before their name.

They've also had problems with categories and miscategorising, metadata being messed up on applications, search not working, approved applications going missing and reappearing... The list goes on.

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Besides, I haven't heard of other developers complaining about apple somehow getting ahold of your beta software and releasing it.

You make it sound like they're breaking into your house in the middle of the night and running off with your laptop. For an application to be launched on the store, the developers have to submit the application for approval (which is a tested process), therefore they already have the application before release. The issue here is that Apple initially rejected it, and then without any warning, released it when it was not expected to be released.

And yes, it has happened to others, as well as people's applications even going missing from the review process. Try reading the comments people leave on El Reg articles about the jesusphone once in a while.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Skyld

They've also had problems with categories and miscategorising, metadata being messed up on applications, search not working, approved applications going missing and reappearing... The list goes on.

You make it sound like they're breaking into your house in the middle of the night and running off with your laptop. For an application to be launched on the store, the developers have to submit the application for approval (which is a tested process), therefore they already have the application before release. The issue here is that Apple initially rejected it, and then without any warning, released it when it was not expected to be released.

And yes, it has happened to others, as well as people's applications even going missing from the review process. Try reading the comments people leave on El Reg articles about the jesusphone once in a while.

So Graal sent them a beta version to be approved, then planned to send them another version later, which would have to be re-approved?

Sounds like it was complete in the mind of CJ, so they put it out, only to hear the many complaints of the users (often filtered here, not so much on iTunes), and pulled it down to fix it.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

So Graal sent them a beta version to be approved, then planned to send them another version later, which would have to be re-approved?

No. Cyberjoueurs sent them what they would have initially considered to be a complete client, and Apple responded basically with "We didn't like this so much, so change this and this and we'll reconsider." So, Cyberjoueurs rethink a couple of details and plan to submit another version for review. Except then, Apple suddenly approve the application for a while before removing it again.

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Sounds like it was complete in the mind of CJ, so they put it out, only to hear the many complaints of the users (often filtered here, not so much on iTunes), and pulled it down to fix it.

Think that if you want, but that's quite a large defamation. The App Store is a rigorously moderated when it comes to the applications they post for the public to use.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Skyld

No. Cyberjoueurs sent them what they would have initially considered to be a complete client, and Apple responded basically with "We didn't like this so much, so change this and this and we'll reconsider." So, Cyberjoueurs rethink a couple of details and plan to submit another version for review. Except then, Apple suddenly approve the application for a while before removing it again.

Well, if they sent it to them, then they wanted it released then. Maybe Apple did change their mind, but if CJ thought the first product was good enough, they have nothing to complain about.
Now, the players on the other hand...

Think that if you want, but that's quite a large defamation. The App Store is a rigorously moderated when it comes to the applications they post for the public to use.

Not as large as I've had for them in the past

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Well, if they sent it to them, then they wanted it released then. Maybe Apple did change their mind, but if CJ thought the first product was good enough, they have nothing to complain about.
Now, the players on the other hand...

What part of "Apple wanted Cyberjoueurs to change the product slightly" don't you quite understand?

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Skyld

What part of "Apple wanted Cyberjoueurs to change the product slightly" don't you quite understand?

The part where Cyberjoueurs isn't told that they made a corrupt, horrible, ugly, useless game. And that they should listen to Cali at all times. /sarcasm

[unixmad]

The real problem is apple do what they want when they want, they mostly never reply email and the web interface to manage Appstore is very simple to not say bugged, for example if you submit an application for approval you have no way to change it or remove it.

This slow and buggy process is already annoying for offline products but it's becoming a real challenge if you want to release a online game and you announce a day for the launch.

So if someone have some contact with Apple you are welcome to help us

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

The part where Cyberjoueurs isn't told that they made a corrupt, horrible, ugly, useless game. And that they should listen to Cali at all times. /sarcasm

It's CJ's fault the game was unfinished when sent to Apple. Sure, complete by their standards, but not by Apple's. I suppose they lowered their standards, or Cj made changes, who knows, point is, CJ screwed up by sending them a game that most people would consider unfinished.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

It's CJ's fault the game was unfinished when sent to Apple. Sure, complete by their standards, but not by Apple's. I suppose they lowered their standards, or Cj made changes, who knows, point is, CJ screwed up by sending them a game that most people would consider unfinished.

Since you're obviously the expert on these things, care to explain to us how Cyberjoueurs are supposed to know exactly what Apple are going to say when they submit a product for inspection?

The fact is that it's down to chance as much as anything; a team will review the software and if that specific group of people decide on the day that it isn't acceptable, that's it. It won't get released, and the little people have no grounds to argue with that. You can't blame Cyberjoueurs; they submitted what they honestly believed was an acceptable product. :/

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

It's CJ's fault the game was unfinished when sent to Apple. Sure, complete by their standards, but not by Apple's. I suppose they lowered their standards, or Cj made changes, who knows, point is, CJ screwed up by sending them a game that most people would consider unfinished.

Why are you trying to defend Apple in this?

The Apple Store HAS had a lot of glitches, it's very plausible that it was a glitch that Graal Zone even got in.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by unixmad

The real problem is apple do what they want when they want, they mostly never reply email and the web interface to manage Appstore is very simple to not say bugged, for example if you submit an application for approval you have no way to change it or remove it.

Sounds familiar.

[Crimson2005]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Why are you trying to defend Apple in this?

Because he's a silly fanboy. Apple can do no wrong in his eyes.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

It's CJ's fault the game was unfinished when sent to Apple. Sure, complete by their standards, but not by Apple's. I suppose they lowered their standards, or Cj made changes, who knows, point is, CJ screwed up by sending them a game that most people would consider unfinished.

The way I look at it is CJ could either sit on their butts wondering if it was good enough to submit, or they could take a chance, and if not accepted, make changes and try again.
It's like that saying, "You never know until you try"

You try, you fail, you pull yourself up & brush yourself off, and try again

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

The way I look at it is CJ could either sit on their butts wondering if it was good enough to submit, or they could take a chance, and if not accepted, make changes and try again.
It's like that saying, "You never know until you try"

You try, you fail, you pull yourself up & brush yourself off, and try again

Or they could, like most other games, do testing.

I just don't get why they didn't test it before sending it to apple. It's the kind of mistake young developers make for their playerworlds and the PWA coming in for inspections.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Or they could, like most other games, do testing.

They did, and this goes to show how little you know about the situation.

[xAzerothx]

Originally Posted by unixmad

The real problem is apple do what they want when they want, they mostly never reply email

LOL who knows a company just like this? Come on you know who it is.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Skyld

They did, and this goes to show how little you know about the situation.

Well, judging from the response, any chance the test group was composed of the usual suspects, as opposed to randomly chosen people?

[pooper200000]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Or they could, like most other games, do testing.
I just don't get why they didn't test it before sending it to apple. It's the kind of mistake young developers make for their playerworlds and the PWA coming in for inspections.

I'm sure they did testing on their own Iphone. Just because they didn't open the testing to certain Graal players doesn't mean they didn't test the product. Graal submitted what they thought was an easy to use product. However, some customers were not able to understand the controls. I'm sure that Cyberjoueurs intends to change the product accordingly based on the helpful customer reviews. I don't think you can assume just because Cyberjoueur's product was not perfect that they purposely intended to create a product that was much less than perfect.
[SARCASM]I mean Cyberjoueurs is definitely out to get everyone by creating a bad product. I'm sure they intended to add every single glitch or bug.[/SARCASM]
Seriously, grow up.

They created the Graal Zone, and Graal Zone+ for the Ipod based upon their own assessments of the Ipod touch and Iphone. They did the same thing with the poker and it was a success.

It does not make a difference if you do not agree with how they handled the situation. Who cares if you can place the blame? You can place the blame all you want, but Cyberjoueurs could be improving their product. I don't understand what your whole Graal is out to piss everyone off attitude, but it is getting very very old. I'm sure just from reading a few of your posts on the forums that you disagree with just about everything Graal has done, although I'm sure you do like some things, you just don't like the way some actions are being carried out. You aren't alone, but you could at least look at the positive side. Graal was trying to gain more customers and money by creating a product for the Iphone. They didn't make a fool proof product and there were some bad reviews. Based upon the reviews they can make revisions in the product and improve it for the customers. Is this such a huge issue that you must continue to rant about it?

Just because they didn't open it up to random testers, and had those people that they trust to help review the product doesn't mean they didn't help find or spot bugs. If they didn't have randomly chosen participants so what.. Stop placing the blame and try to find some solutions and positive input.

[Kristi]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Well, if they sent it to them, then they wanted it released then. Maybe Apple did change their mind, but if CJ thought the first product was good enough, they have nothing to complain about.

Seeing as you were incapable of reading, I will make the point that they had a reason to complain about:

Stefan wanted to be around during launch, which he would have been if it was approved and launched. Since it wasn't approved, Stef went on vacation and then it was magically in the store in the interim. This means he wasn't available at lunch. This is the direct fault of apple.

Developing reading skills would have saved this thread three pages of repetition.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by pooper200000

I'm sure they did testing on their own Iphone. Just because they didn't open the testing to certain Graal players doesn't mean they didn't test the product. Graal submitted what they thought was an easy to use product. However, some customers were not able to understand the controls. I'm sure that Cyberjoueurs intends to change the product accordingly based on the helpful customer reviews. I don't think you can assume just because Cyberjoueur's product was not perfect that they purposely intended to create a product that was much less than perfect.
[SARCASM]I mean Cyberjoueurs is definitely out to get everyone by creating a bad product. I'm sure they intended to add every single glitch or bug.[/SARCASM]
Seriously, grow up.

They created the Graal Zone, and Graal Zone+ for the Ipod based upon their own assesments of the Ipod touch and Iphone. They did the same thing with the poker and it was a success.

It does not make a difference if you do not agree with how they handled the situation. Who cares if you can place the blame? You can place the blame all you want, but Cyberjoueurs could be improving their product. I don't understand what your whole Graal is out to piss everyone off attitude, but it is getting very very old. I'm sure just from reading a few of your posts on the forums that you disagree with just about everything Graal has done, although I'm sure you do like some things, you just don't like the way some actions are being carried out. You aren't alone, but you could at least look at the positive side. Graal was trying to gain more customers and money by creating a product for the Iphone. They didn't make a fool proof product and there were some bad reviews. Based upon the reviews they can make revisions in the product and improve it for the customers. Is this such a huge issue that you must continue to rant about it?

Just because they didn't open it up to random testers, and had those people that they trust to help review the product doesn't mean they didn't help find or spot bugs. If they didn't have randomly chosen participants so what.. Stop placing the blame and try to find some solutions and positive input.

If you don't do good testing, you're taking an unnecessary risk. They're so afraid to trust people with a beta release of their software, that there's always tons of problems and bugs when the release it to everyone. It's not a wise way to release software. Blaming Apple for all the problems with the release date is fine, but it wasn't Apple's fault the released product was subpar. The message you get when you log on would lead you to believe that Apple accidentally released a beta version.

Originally Posted by Kristi

Seeing as you were incapable of reading, I will make the point that they had a reason to complain about:

Stefan wanted to be around during launch, which he would have been if it was approved and launched. Since it wasn't approved, Stef went on vacation and then it was magically in the store in the interim. This means he wasn't available at lunch. This is the direct fault of apple.

Developing reading skills would have saved this thread three pages of repetition.

It's Apple fault it was released at a different time.
It is not their fault the game was unpopular for the controls and other missing features.

[Kristi]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

It's Apple fault it was released at a different time.

The part they were upset about

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

It is not their fault the game was unpopular for the controls and other missing features.

NOT the part they were upset about.

Good going. Broken Record: Learn to read

[pooper200000]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

If you don't do good testing, you're taking an unnecessary risk. They're so afraid to trust people with a beta release of their software, that there's always tons of problems and bugs when the release it to everyone. It's not a wise way to release software. Blaming Apple for all the problems with the release date is fine, but it wasn't Apple's fault the released product was subpar. The message you get when you log on would lead you to believe that Apple accidentally released a beta version.

It's Apple fault it was released at a different time.
It is not their fault the game was unpopular for the controls and other missing features.

Cyberjoueurs must have thought they had a flawless product and with the severe lack of time must have found it plausible to submit the product as is. I can't speak for Cyberjoueurs. As far as testers, what is done is done. Yes it would be helpful to have more beta testers, and perhaps in the future Cyberjoueurs will take more consideration into choosing testers.
It is beating a dead horse to place the blame or talk about testers. It doesn't matter who is at fault, whether or not it is Apple, or Cyberjoueurs, what matters is that any and all bugs be fixed. The release may not have been handled perfectly, but it was released. Now the most important thing is to have forward momentum in fixing bugs and improving the overall product.

If the product was missing freatures, make a list of them so the developers who have been working on the product can fix and improve the product as they see fit. It doesn't need to chew them out for the things they did do. It could just give them advice on improving the product so it will sell.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Kristi

The part they were upset about

NOT the part they were upset about.

Good going. Broken Record: Learn to read

Wow: you learn to read.
They made it seem from their message in game that it was a beta version that Apple released, and it was their fault it was released before the game was finished, when, in reality, CJ thought the game was finished when they sent it to them, and because of their comments and the players, decided to work on it more. They were misleading their userbase (again).

[pooper200000]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Wow: you learn to read.
They made it seem from their message in game that it was a beta version that Apple released, and it was their fault it was released before the game was finished, when, in reality, CJ thought the game was finished when they sent it to them, and because of their comments and the players, decided to work on it more. They were misleading their userbase (again).

None of us can assume anything about the situation, because we simply just do not possess enough information to know who, if anyone, is at fault. Stop placing the blame. What is done is done. If you have positive, useful feedback, why not post it?

We understand you have problems with the management and some of their decisions. What is unnecesary is your constant slandering of the management and your slandering of the game in general. Complaining is not positive and will not fix the problems. Post useful feedback so the product can be improved upon.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by pooper200000

None of us can assume anything about the situation, because we simply just do not possess enough information to know who, if anyone, is at fault. Stop placing the blame. What is done is done. If you have positive, useful feedback, why not post it?

We understand you have problems with the management and some of their decisions. What is unnecesary is your constant slandering of the management and your slandering of the game in general. Complaining is not positive and will not fix the problems. Post useful feedback so the product can be improved upon.

You don't know the half of it.

Still, my point is they should have admitted the problem, not just pointed fingers.
Apple screwed up. So did Cj. Neither should have tried to say the other was at fault (and Apple certainly didn't).