Brutal Boycott.

Torankusu · #1 07-31-2006, 08:42 PM

I am posting this because I am requesting that Brutals be boycotted until they are priced reasonably. This can change, all it takes is people willing to make it change. Here is my argument:

-Immenses are priced at roughly 2 diamonds.
-Brutals are priced at a solid 10 diamonds.

At level 33 Physical, I get approximately 100,000 EXP off of an Immense.
At level 33 Physical, I get approximately 200,000 EXP off of a Brutal.

If immenses are 1/5th of the price of Brutals, shouldn't Brutals give 5x more EXP? As they do not, the only solution is that the players of Graal Kingdoms boycott the Brutals at the price people are placing on them.

If we refuse to buy a Brutal for 10 diamonds, and only 4 diamonds (as that is the mathematically/economically logical price), we can help better the server's Economy. I can't do it alone, so it requires everyone to boycott. Stop buying brutals for ten diamonds, please, and we should be able to take control.

Thanks for your time, and please spread the message.

hampy · #2 07-31-2006, 08:54 PM

I think that this would be a hard thing to carry out succesfully because many sellers are very stubben, but I shall attempt to help out with this cause 10 dias is way too high

Torankusu · #3 07-31-2006, 08:56 PM

It takes two to do a successful trade. You simply have to just refuse to buy any brutals until people will sell them to you for four diamonds. If people realize that they cannot sell them, they they will come down on the price.

Supply and Demand.

i work in retail, i've seen it happen plenty.

cyan3 · #4 07-31-2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hampy

I think that this would be a hard thing to carry out succesfully because many sellers are very stubben, but I shall attempt to help out with this cause 10 dias is way too high

Yes really hard and i think that 10 dia is too much.

hampy · #5 07-31-2006, 08:59 PM

knocking down prices is always fun

but can be hard and tiresome at the same time but if you manage to get all brutal buyers to accept this then hopefully there will be no problemo

cyan3 · #6 07-31-2006, 09:05 PM

it might not be that hard to bring down the price most of the people who sell them are new ish.

Torankusu · #7 07-31-2006, 09:05 PM

If you guys absolutely need to map, then do immenses. They will give you accurate EXP, but you will just have to do two of them to equal one brutal, which, will save you some money, but the Brutal sellers will not make sales.

So, but two immenses for four diamonds total, and you have the equivalent of a brutal.

And also, the people that sell them are somewhat new, otherwise they would probably do the brutals themselves.

hampy · #8 07-31-2006, 09:07 PM

How much exp would a lvl 18 phys get off a brutal? =P

hampy · #9 07-31-2006, 09:08 PM

or an immense?

..sorry double posts

Torankusu · #10 07-31-2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hampy

How much exp would a lvl 18 phys get off a brutal? =P

probably double what i get, maybe even more. its hard to be exact, but whatever the numbers you get on a brutal, divide it by two, and that is about what you will get for an immense.

Googi · #11 07-31-2006, 09:18 PM

I don't use brutals anyways so...

MisterMastermind · #12 07-31-2006, 09:18 PM

I see 5 diamonds being more reasonable for brutals, seeing as it saves you the effort of finding the other location for the map.

hampy · #13 07-31-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torankusu

probably double what i get, maybe even more. its hard to be exact, but whatever the numbers you get on a brutal, divide it by two, and that is about what you will get for an immense.

Okie thanks

KuJi · #14 07-31-2006, 09:26 PM

BOYCOTT ROWS. THey were only 40k in the stores (maybe even less) and now they hit for 500 diamonds.

BOYCOTT ROWS!

BOYCOTT DIAMONDS.. THEY USED TO BE 3 PLAT, 10 PLAT AND NOW 500 PLAT. INSANE!

hampy · #15 07-31-2006, 09:30 PM

row boycott will never work

Draenin · #16 07-31-2006, 11:41 PM

I'm not selling my upper-levels maps anymore. I've been collecting them.

MasterNuke · #17 07-31-2006, 11:47 PM

It's not the maps, it's the level difference experience modifier.
By your information, brutals are still better because 1. Brutals are easier and 2. It takes less time to do one brutal than two immense.

Draenin · #18 07-31-2006, 11:53 PM

Takes me the same amount of time. Also, one maps is only easier than another depending on what you use for it.

AlaricoMontario · #19 08-01-2006, 01:24 AM

Meh, it'll never work.

At first, the buyers will boycott brutals. Yet, as with all things - they will eventualyl start to suffer and buy regular prices.

And dmanit, if I bought a brutal for 10 diamonds, I am sure as hell not taking a 6 diamond hit - I'm poor.

Gothika · #20 08-01-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuJi

BOYCOTT ROWS. THey were only 40k in the stores (maybe even less) and now they hit for 500 diamonds.

BOYCOTT ROWS!

BOYCOTT DIAMONDS.. THEY USED TO BE 3 PLAT, 10 PLAT AND NOW 500 PLAT. INSANE!

You realise none of that will work. The reason RoWs are 500+ diamonds are because they never spawn in shops..
And if diamonds were to go down in price. the price of all items will increase.

hampy · #21 08-01-2006, 01:11 PM

hmmm, I only seem to get 30k exp from a immense map at level 18 :'(

Draenin · #22 08-01-2006, 01:13 PM

Really? That's funny, because I get nearly 100,000 at level 20. ;]

hampy · #23 08-01-2006, 01:24 PM

I killed all the monsters and got 30,163 exp

Torankusu · #24 08-01-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlaricoMontario

Meh, it'll never work.

At first, the buyers will boycott brutals. Yet, as with all things - they will eventualyl start to suffer and buy regular prices.

And dmanit, if I bought a brutal for 10 diamonds, I am sure as hell not taking a 6 diamond hit - I'm poor.

Er, It is simple to boycott brutals. All you have to do is go to the HH and get them yourselves. While you are there, you will also get diamons and sapphires. This will force players to sell brutals for cheaper since they are not selling for ten diamonds.

And, usually the people selling brutals have no use for them, so, it won't do the seller any good to hold on to it.

CidNight1142 · #25 08-02-2006, 12:19 AM

This will be bad for the economy. Very bad actually.

All this will do is give more power to the strong, more money to the rich, and take money from the poor. Do you know who finds and sells brutals? Not level 110's with dual RoW's, that's for sure. Its the little man who's trying to make a living killing skeletons or rexs. Finding one brutal a day means you're having great luck. So frankly, their profit margin is tiny compared to the big traders. All this will do is weaken the poor (which is bad considering they're already completely impoverished with almost no way to climb the ladder.)

Secondly, by doing a brutal, you will easily make more than 4 diamonds worth of plat/items. Thus making it silly to make them worth so little, considering you get 1,000 plat (2 dias) just for doing the brutal and the item drops and possible gem drops usually easily make up another 2-4 diamonds worth.

So, in conclusion, no. Brutals should remain at least at 8 diamonds, if not higher. The ten diamonds is a luxury tax. If you're too lazy to go and find the brutal yourself, you need to pay more than they're face value. That's life.

AlaricoMontario · #26 08-02-2006, 01:40 AM

What Cid said, just meaner and more to the point :P

Torankusu · #27 08-02-2006, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CidNight1142

This will be bad for the economy. Very bad actually.

All this will do is give more power to the strong, more money to the rich, and take money from the poor. Do you know who finds and sells brutals? Not level 110's with dual RoW's, that's for sure. Its the little man who's trying to make a living killing skeletons or rexs. Finding one brutal a day means you're having great luck. So frankly, their profit margin is tiny compared to the big traders. All this will do is weaken the poor (which is bad considering they're already completely impoverished with almost no way to climb the ladder.)

So, by what you are saying, if we charge everyone ten diamonds for the brutals, the "poor" will benefit. What happens when the "poor" want to start doing brutals to gain EXP? How do you think they are going to feel having to fork over ten diamonds a brutal? I think if they only had to pay four diamonds, they would be able to obtain them easier. After all, they are 'poor' right, and cannot afford much more.

Quote:

Secondly, by doing a brutal, you will easily make more than 4 diamonds worth of plat/items. Thus making it silly to make them worth so little, considering you get 1,000 plat (2 dias) just for doing the brutal and the item drops and possible gem drops usually easily make up another 2-4 diamonds worth.

I've done plenty of maps, and the only maps that you actually "profit" plat/gem-wise is level 3s. Rex's are the only thing that give good drops, and there are maybe a total of 6 in a Brutal map.

Quote:

So, in conclusion, no. Brutals should remain at least at 8 diamonds, if not higher. The ten diamonds is a luxury tax. If you're too lazy to go and find the brutal yourself, you need to pay more than they're face value. That's life.

Its not a matter of being "lazy." Brutals are not exactly common, you cant just go and kill 5 trex's and get a brutal.

AlaricoMontario · #28 08-02-2006, 03:46 AM

Actually... on my 3rd evil bomy yesterday I came upon a brutal.

Maps are actually quite common in dungeons. Not necessarily brutals but, hey, every bit counts

Draenin · #29 08-02-2006, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CidNight1142

This will be bad for the economy. Very bad actually.

You're probably saying that because you have a bunch of brutals you don't want to sell for any less than 10 diamonds. Deflation in this manner is a good thing.

Quote:

All this will do is give more power to the strong, more money to the rich, and take money from the poor.

Actually, it would make maps more affordable for the poor than they are now.

Quote:

Do you know who finds and sells brutals? Not level 110's with dual RoW's, that's for sure.

Uh, no. Me, Draxx, and a handful of other people sell ours when we don't need them.

Quote:

Finding one brutal a day means you're having great luck. So frankly, their profit margin is tiny compared to the big traders.

Haha. I guess this makes me the luckiest man in the world, considering the other day I got 12 brutals and 37 immenses from messing around in the HH, huh?

Quote:

Secondly, by doing a brutal, you will easily make more than 4 diamonds worth of plat/items. Thus making it silly to make them worth so little, considering you get 1,000 plat (2 dias) just for doing the brutal and the item drops and possible gem drops usually easily make up another 2-4 diamonds worth.

The enemies in brutals don't drop gems?

Quote:

So, in conclusion, no. Brutals should remain at least at 8 diamonds, if not higher. The ten diamonds is a luxury tax. If you're too lazy to go and find the brutal yourself, you need to pay more than they're face value. That's life.

Sounds like someone is protective of the value of his own belongings. If you do the math, you'll find that immenses are now being sold for 2 diamonds apiece. That's 1/5 of the price being paid for brutals. You could buy 5 Immenses for the price of one brutal right now and get 2.5x more exp than you would with one single brutal. Since the price has fluctuated, you are swindling people when you sell brutals for 10, as you can buy maps that are far more valuable with the money you make off selling it.

AlaricoMontario · #30 08-02-2006, 04:48 AM

If Brutal prices go down,
Immense prices will just go up to compensate.

CidNight1142 · #31 08-02-2006, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draenin

You're probably saying that because you have a bunch of brutals you don't want to sell for any less than 10 diamonds. Deflation in this manner is a good thing.

I don't currently have a single brutal or immense in my possession.

Quote:

Actually, it would make maps more affordable for the poor than they are now.

And level 10 people with 200 hours who are trying to build a respectable item base are not trying to buy affordable brutals, because they can't do brutals. They collect them for the sole purpose of selling/trading them. These are the impoverished I spoke of.

Quote:

Haha. I guess this makes me the luckiest man in the world, considering the other day I got 12 brutals and 37 immenses from messing around in the HH, huh?

I call shenanigans on that amount of brutals and immenses. Unless of course by 'messing around' you mean you spent about 12-15 hours straight in the HH.

Let me get this one question out.
Do you honestly believe that taking an item which is predominantly sold by the poor to the rich, and lowering its price is going to help the poor?
I've personally never heard of a bunch of guys with 6 figure salaries getting together and boycotting the old lady on the street selling fruit out of a cart.

Draenin · #32 08-02-2006, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlaricoMontario

If Brutal prices go down,
Immense prices will just go up to compensate.

Why would that happen when people have a hard time doing Immenses anyway? You think people would pay more to get their asses kicked? Think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CidNight1142

And level 10 people with 200 hours who are trying to build a respectable item base are not trying to buy affordable brutals, because they can't do brutals. They collect them for the sole purpose of selling/trading them.

The 'item base' you speak of usually consists of weapons / armor. Why would people buy those? To get stronger. Why would people try to get stronger? To be able to do Brutals.

Quote:

Let me get this one question out.
Do you honestly believe that taking an item which is predominantly sold by the poor to the rich, and lowering its price is going to help the poor?
I've personally never heard of a bunch of guys with 6 figure salaries getting together and boycotting the old lady on the street selling fruit out of a cart.

Yes I do. It would make things a lot easier on people who actually give a crap about improving their character.

Quote:

I call shenanigans on that amount of brutals and immenses. Unless of course by 'messing around' you mean you spent about 12-15 hours straight in the HH.

I call shenanigans on your shenanigans

MasterNuke · #33 08-02-2006, 09:23 AM

The factor is time. It simply just takes longer to do 2 immenses compared to 1 brutal.

Draenin · #34 08-02-2006, 09:42 AM

Actually, the factor is very much not time, as people have plenty of free time which they idle on the server. Whether you do 2 brutals in 20 minutes or one brutal in 10 doesn't matter unless you've got a hot date.

Googi · #35 08-02-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torankusu

So, by what you are saying, if we charge everyone ten diamonds for the brutals, the "poor" will benefit. What happens when the "poor" want to start doing brutals to gain EXP? How do you think they are going to feel having to fork over ten diamonds a brutal?

People who make their money gathering Brutals aren't going to pay for Brutals in much the same way that I don't pay for Gold Keys. They'll get their Brutals themselves.

Draenin · #36 08-02-2006, 06:40 PM

And for the most part, that's precisely what I've been doing.

Torankusu · #37 08-03-2006, 07:39 AM

Yeah, I get most of my brutals through level 3 maps because they drop so muh. I am just trying to get people to realize that paying 10 diamonds for a brutal is senseless. Just buy immenses and you will make 2.5k as much EXP, even though it will take more time. How long/how expensive is it to find ten diamonds?

KuJi · #38 08-03-2006, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torankusu

Yeah, I get most of my brutals through level 3 maps because they drop so muh. I am just trying to get people to realize that paying 10 diamonds for a brutal is senseless. Just buy immenses and you will make 2.5k as much EXP, even though it will take more time. How long/how expensive is it to find ten diamonds?

In the mines.. forever ;(

MasterNuke · #39 08-03-2006, 09:31 AM

1. Any newbie with some wc and 99 phys resist can do brutals. You need speed, wc, fast burst damage, and resists to do immenses.
2. One brutal takes less time to do than two immenses.
3. Lag kills. People with horrible computers won't survive an immense without preparations (resistance increasing consumables, instant health restoration consumables).
4. Brutals drop materials used in alchemy recipes that make EQUIPMENT.
5. Brutal map monsters are a higher level than ones in immense maps.

Brutals were only priced high because that is how much people wanted them over immenses.

CidNight1142 · #40 08-04-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draenin

And for the most part, that's precisely what I've been doing.

Exactly. To add to my earlier metaphor of the rich guys boycotting the poor apple salesman. How often have you heard of that boycott continuing when there is a nice ripe apple tree 20 feet away?

If you're so worried about the price of brutals, go and find them on your own. If you and others do this enough, that will eventually pull the price down since you're removing some of the market.

If you believe the numbers that Draenin mentioned on map dropping in the HH, hell, everyone should be rich! (My shenanigans still holds)