Suspended Guilds >_____________>

[Lance]

Originally Posted by petro1212

Well its actualy sensible.

No, it's nonsense. It does not follow. Saying it makes sense does not actually make it so.

Compare humans to the most inadvanced lifeforms that excist on this world.

To do so, I think we need to know what you consider to be the most rudimentary lifeforms.

Humans kill within their own race,

Several species do. How is this inherently bad?

increase in exploding numbers,

See above.

create chaos

Vague. What exactly does this entail and how is it inherently bad?

and polution,

Does this fall into the category of 'illogical' or 'destruction'?

devide their race into sub races

How exactly have humans "divided their race into sub races"? In fact, what is a "sub race"?

and turn to racism and other ignorant things.

Is racism inherently part of humankind?

Didn't even start about genetical disadvantages...

Genetical disadvantages of what, now?

If I could be anything other than human i'd probely be a maggot. A simple yet rewarding life with no so called complex decisions such as "what should I wear today"

Can you not eliminate that sort of "complex decision" as a human?

[petro1212]

How exactly have humans "divided their race into sub races"? In fact, what is a "sub race"?

That humans are the only thing dumb enough to know racism.. "sub" races or however you would put it.. such as refering to people as white/black/asian... and automaticly judging them by their outwards appearance..

But you clearly love team humanity :P so argueing with you would be pointless

[Sildae]

Originally Posted by petro1212

But you clearly love team humanity :P so argueing with you would be pointless

That sounds like you only argue with people who share your opinion. That sure would tell a lot about your debating skill, no?
Do you expect people to take you seriously after you make some seriously controversial claims and then just abandon the discussion proclaiming that you cannot even prove your own point?

... illogical things automaticly spawn once you let a inferiour lifeform (human) interact with anything in its invironment. They either wreck it or use it for destruction

That is a pretty stupid claim, considering that the guilds system was created by what you call inferior life forms. Yet I agree that Minoc sucks for condemning something as illogical instead of listing real reasons.

Also, your spelling is pretty illogical.

[petro1212]

Sildea, this wouldn't be the time nor place for debates about how badly humanity sucks and how vicious, destructive and primal they are. Humanity has one big problem it's own vanity, when it comes to superiority compared to other lifeforms...

Ontop of that life itself is illogical.. but whatever :P like I care about anything. I'm a narcissit and I only care about myself and my collection of designer clothes and watching tv -and coming across shows about poor people in afrika and than rapidly changing the channel cause what i'll wear tommorow is more relevant to me- (Cruel huh.. but half of the population on earth does it so why should I be diffrent)

[Lance]

Originally Posted by petro1212

That humans are the only thing dumb enough to know racism.. "sub" races or however you would put it.. such as refering to people as white/black/asian... and automaticly judging them by their outwards appearance..

So, uh, are you trying to argue that other species do not judge people/places/things by their outward aspects or what?

But you clearly love team humanity :P

Right. I ask you to ground your statements and that instantly makes me "love team humanity." That's a non sequitur, by the way.

so argueing with you would be pointless

Pointless? Well, if you do not think you can logically convince anyone that you are correct (it happens to be extremely difficult when you're spouting nonsense), then perhaps it would be pointless. Just don't expect anyone to take you or your words seriously.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Minoc

Nobody cares about guild charters.
The information Vulcan requests is inconsequential.

Well, the first statement you made was wrong.
Obviously, people do care, else you wouldn't be complaining.

It's there for a reason, use it.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Well, the first statement you made was wrong.
Obviously, people do care, else you wouldn't be complaining.

Ok, 1/200 of the players care for guild charters, Vulcan is one of them.
BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER.
There is no logical reason to force people to add guild charters.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

It's there for a reason, use it.

Yes, the feature is there for a reason, I CAN use it but I DON'T WANT to, and there is no reason to force me.

[xAndrewx]

Well, if you don't want your guild enabled, then sure, don't use it.
No one is stopping you.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Well, if you don't want your guild enabled, then sure, don't use it.
No one is stopping you.

I think you missed the point of this thread.

[xAndrewx]

It seems that new guilds are being suspended for having no charter or providing 'insufficient' information.

If Vulcan doesn't know what playerworld the guild was made for, how can he get in touch with them?
Giving information about the guild, would also make it easier for the players to know who the guild is allys/enemies with.

[Inspiration]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

If Vulcan doesn't know what playerworld the guild was made for, how can he get in touch with them?

Guild admin is able to post in a guilds CP forum.

[Minoc]

I'm getting sick of repeating myself.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

If Vulcan doesn't know what playerworld the guild was made for, how can he get in touch with them?

Why should Vulcan care about the intended playerworld?
He could easily contact the leaders via email.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Giving information about the guild, would also make it easier for the players to know who the guild is allys/enemies with.

Most of the players don't care for that information.
If a leader of a guild doesn't want to provide extra useless information about his guild, why should he be forced to?

[XyphosMisery]

But putting quotes in your charter makes you look cool.
/sarcasm

[HoudiniMan]

Vulcan's the closest thing you guys have ever had to instant gratification when you cry about your guild needing admin attention.

Either everybody complains about lack of activity or you complain you're being over-regulated. At least things are getting done.

It's not like filling in your charter is real hard work. Put some effort into having a good guild.

[Inspiration]

Perhaps if the guild admin was to focus more on creating/planning things for guilds to do, the leaders of guilds would be more prone to want to take their guilds further than just LOL W R ELETIE @ SPAR AND PK.

Face it, most of the guilds that have allies, enemys, and RP already have charters. The guilds that are just make for PKing and sparring, the ones that really don't have any real reason for existing besides no friendly fire, don't.

The focus of the guild admin should be on attempting to organize Global events for guilds, coming up with uses for the guild points gained by guild activity, ect.

Instead, he's taking a step backwards, making it difficult for people, for no real reason.

What Graal needs now, as I've said before, is more global interactivity. At the very best, the game is keeping its playerbase. For sure, it is not going up. Besides the forums, the community rarely interacts on a server to server basis. Guilds have always been an important part of the game, to the point where you could be famous just for being in one.

Before, when sparring was good, when 200+ players where on servers, guilds pretty much ran themselves. 5-10 guilds would compete for the top spot on a server, and it was damn fun.

Now, with everyone spread over 15 servers, each server only has 1-2 guilds that are even really active. There is rarely any inter-guild competition at all. Being in a guild is just plain boring.

People will become interested in their guild if you give them a reason to be. Currently on classic graal, there really isnt one.

Some guy that knows nothing of this can't possibly do the job correctly.



In response to houdini: Just because he is available a lot means it's okay to look over all his other faults? I know tons of staff on this game who are online hours daily and do a horrible job. Maybe he would be good as something else, but his actions thusfar shows one thing: He knows very little of Graal's guilds, their history, or how to possibly revive the activity of them.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

Your huge pointless post, why post it? It's pointless..

How can he find out about this guild, if the information isn't correctly filled in?
He's making the guild database more organised. Is that so wrong? No, as Houdini said, It's not like filling in your charter is real hard work.

Vulcan is organising the database, do you find it hard to see this?
I'm sure Vulcan has some plans for the guilds in the future, but right now, I guess his main priority is organising the database.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

How can he find out about this guild, if the information isn't correctly filled in?
He's making the guild database more organised. Is that so wrong? No, as Houdini said, It's not like filling in your charter is real hard work.

Vulcan is organising the database, do you find it hard to see this?
I'm sure Vulcan has some plans for the guilds in the future, but right now, I guess his main priority is organising the database.

I agree. I fail to see what the big deal is.

[Inspiration]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

How can he find out about this guild, if the information isn't correctly filled in?

Why would he be picked for guilds admin with little, or no, knowledge of guilds that have played a huge part of Graals history?

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

He's making the guild database more organised. Is that so wrong? No, as Houdini said, It's not like filling in your charter is real hard work.

It's fairly hard if the leader is no longer able to be contacted and no one else has the right too.

It is not a question of if it is "hard work" or not. It's simply a rediculous thing to make manditory all of a sudden. It will not "organize" the database. How does it organize it?

As I said before, if you are interested in joining a guild, you probably already have a good idea about what it is. I've never heard a single person say "Yeah I wanted to join (Killersofdeadlydoom) but they had no guild charter!! I hate that!!".

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

Why would he be picked for guilds admin with little, or no, knowledge of guilds that have played a huge part of Graals history?

Why should it matter?
It's a guild, guilds should be treated the same.
Name some 'important' guilds. They might be important to you, but not to anyone else, why is that? because Graal changes, deal with the changes.

It's fairly hard if the leader is no longer able to be contacted and no one else has the right too.

If the person can't be contacted, he will probably contact the second person in charge of the guild, and if they can't be contacted, he'll work his way down the guild member list untill one responds.

It is not a question of if it is "hard work" or not. It's simply a rediculous thing to make manditory all of a sudden. It will not "organize" the database. How does it organize it?

Why won't it organize it? Your post just shows a sign of someone being lazy that doesn't want to fill it all in. Why is that? would you rather it be all over the place?

As I said before, if you are interested in joining a guild, you probably already have a good idea about what it is. I've never heard a single person say "Yeah I wanted to join (Killersofdeadlydoom) but they had no guild charter!! I hate that!!".

Wouldn't it be better, if the charter actually described the guild? You don't take the guilds seriously, why is that?

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Why should it matter?

No one should be in charge of something he doesn't know anything about.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Why won't it organize it?

Answer the opposite first.
To prove that (not X) is wrong you must first prove that X exists.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Your post just shows a sign of someone being lazy that doesn't want to fill it all in.

He doesn't want to fill it in because it's illogical, not because he's lazy.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Wouldn't it be better, if the charter actually described the guild?

It wouldn't have any affect.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Minoc

No one should be in charge of something he doesn't know anything about.

So, who actually knows about the graal guilds then?
What can you say about them?

He doesn't want to fill it in because it's illogical, not because he's lazy.

Who doesn't want to fill it in? You said 'He' why is that? who're we talking about now?
And it's good to be illogical? wouldn't it be better if it was logical?

It wouldn't have any affect.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

So, who actually knows about the graal guilds then?

Anyone who has been playing Graal (on Classic servers) for over a year.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

What can you say about them?

I don't feel like writing a whole essay at the moment.
If you want me to answer a particular guilds related question, feel free to ask.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Who doesn't want to fill it in? You said 'He' why is that? who're we talking about now?

My bad.
"Maybe that someone doesn't want to fill it in because it's illogical, not because he's lazy."
Better?

And it's good to be illogical? wouldn't it be better if it was logical?

You misinterpreted my reply, the illogical thing is being forced to add useless charters.

Once again, prove your point before asking me to counter it.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Minoc

Anyone who has been playing Graal (on Classic servers) for over a year.

Haha, just because you and a few other people havn't heard of Vulcan doesn't mean he hasn't played classic servers.

I don't feel like writing a whole essay at the moment.
If you want me to answer a particular guilds related question, feel free to ask.

So, what makes you different from Vulcan?

My bad.
"Maybe that someone doesn't want to fill it in because it's illogical, not because he's lazy."
Better?

Ah, I see.

You misinterpreted my reply, the illogical thing is being forced to add useless charters. Once again, prove your point before asking me to counter it.[/

Can you tell me why it's useless, you havn't stated why it is useless.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Haha, just because you and a few other people havn't heard of Vulcan doesn't mean he hasn't played classic servers.

A few?
It seems that only G2K2 and Zone players know of him.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

So, what makes you different from Vulcan?

I've been playing Graal since 2000, I've dealt with guilds a lot more than he did.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Can you tell me why it's useless, you havn't stated why it is useless.

I have, multiple times.
I'll use Xavier's explanation this time:

Originally Posted by Inspiration

As I said before, if you are interested in joining a guild, you probably already have a good idea about what it is. I've never heard a single person say "Yeah I wanted to join (Killersofdeadlydoom) but they had no guild charter!! I hate that!!".

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Minoc

A few?
It seems that only G2K2 and Zone players know of him.

When you're talking about 'classic' you're talking about the tab and not the server right?

I've been playing Graal since 2000, I've dealt with guilds a lot more than he did.

So, you've been playing Graal since 2000, that automatically makes you better at dealing with guilds? where does that come from?
I just think you're jealous, you don't seem to like him. He's doing his job,
it seems you just want to bash him for no reason. Hell, it's a pointless reason why you're fighting.
'LOL LETS LEAVE OUT THE CHARTERS AND ANNOY VULCAN, MAINLY BECAUSE I DIDN'T GET THE GUILD ADMIN JOB.'

I have, multiple times.
I'll use Xavier's explanation this time:

Haha, you've never heard about it. Have you talked to anyone about guilds?
Honestly, you're making a point out of nothing. I suggest you deal with the fact that it should be there and not left out.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

When you're talking about 'classic' you're talking about the tab and not the server right?

I'm talking about the server, but it kinda counters your claim of "only a few".

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

So, you've been playing Graal since 2000, that automatically makes you better at dealing with guilds? where does that come from?

Misinterpreted once again.
Reason #1: I've been playing Graal since 2000, I'm more aware of the progress of guilds throughout the years.
Reason #2: I've dealt with guilds more than him.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

I just think you're jealous, you don't seem to like him. He's doing his job,
it seems you just want to bash him for no reason. Hell, it's a pointless reason why you're fighting.
'LOL LETS LEAVE OUT THE CHARTERS AND ANNOY VULCAN, MAINLY BECAUSE I DIDN'T GET THE GUILD ADMIN JOB.'

He doesn't fit to be the admin and he isn't really doing a good job.
There are quite a few players who could do a much better job without me (or others) complaining.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Haha, you've never heard about it. Have you talked to anyone about guilds?
Honestly, you're making a point out of nothing. I suggest you deal with the fact that it should be there and not left out.

Yes, I've talked to quite a few people about guilds.
You have failed to prove me wrong so far.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Minoc

I'm talking about the server, but it kinda counters your claim of "only a few".

Ah, so because he doesn't play Classic the server he doesn't know about Graal?

Misinterpreted once again.
Reason #1: I've been playing Graal since 2000, I'm more aware of the progress of guilds throughout the years.
Reason #2: I've dealt with guilds more than him.

Were you an guild admin, or did you only use the rc FTP?

He doesn't fit to be the admin and he isn't really doing a good job.
There are quite a few players who could do a much better job without me (or others) complaining.

Woah*3 (Woah Woah Woah). What exactly has he done wrong?
He disabled some guilds, for a reason. All the guilds are now back that were disabled. What's wrong with that?

Yes, I've talked to quite a few people about guilds.
You have failed to prove me wrong so far.

Why should it be left out? Can you give me an answer to why it should be left out? Apart from 'It shouldn't need to be added'.

[Minoc]

Note: please reread the whole thread before replying to this post.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Were you an guild admin, or did you only use the rc FTP?

Neither, "dealing with guilds" doesn't necessarily mean administrating them.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Woah*3 (Woah Woah Woah). What exactly has he done wrong?
He disabled some guilds, for a reason. All the guilds are now back that were disabled. What's wrong with that?

Read my previous posts, I don't feel like repeating myself again.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Why should it be left out? Can you give me an answer to why it should be left out? Apart from 'It shouldn't need to be added'.

It shouldn't be left out.
The charter should remain as an optional feature.

[xAndrewx]

Well, then you're not qualified. You don't know more then Vulcan when it comes to guilds then I guess. You're both equal.

I don't seem to see it? Else, I wouldn't have asked it.

It should be there.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Well, then you're not qualified. You don't know more then Vulcan when it comes to guilds then I guess. You're both equal.

I actually do.
I mean, Vulcan suspended US, which is one of the most known guilds, because he didn't know what it meant.
Also, according to your post - if I'm not qualified, he's not qualified as well.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

I don't seem to see it? Else, I wouldn't have asked it.

In that case, nothing I would add could make a difference.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

It should be there.

I agree, but it should be optional.

[xAndrewx]

Just because you're aware of what US stands for, doesn't mean everyone else does. I don't know what it means either, I would have done the exact same.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Just because you're aware of what US stands for, doesn't mean everyone else does. I don't know what it means either, I would have done the exact same.

But because it's such a known guild, you'd expect the guild admin to know it.

[xAndrewx]

Well, i've played Graal for along time. I've never heard of it....

[Crono]

minoc for asst guild admin

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Well, i've played Graal for along time. I've never heard of it....

Most of the older Classic servers players have.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Gerami

minoc for asst guild admin

Nay!