Global Development Team

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Python523

The idea is useless, stupid, and is a cry for power; if people want to help so much, a tag nor a global rc is needed; they can ask servers to help without a tag or rc.

try reading all the posts before replying please?

Originally Posted by Milkdude99

Dunno maybe because you started this thread and started this in the first place in another thread? Sounds like to me you are the ring leader in this , if not why did you start this in the first place?

because I was trying to get the PWA to post formal reviews, and I was offering suggestions as to how the PWA could have more time to do reviews, if time were an issue
o.o
I then made this thread, to stop the arguments about a GLT in the other thread... the arguments about a GLT started after I made a passing reference to one in a post I made trying to think of ways to give the PWA more time

make sence?

[Python523]

Originally Posted by ETD

try reading all the posts before replying please?

I skimmed the thread, and I don't see one use for this team, name one GOOD one, not something you couldn't do as a normal staff member.

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Python523

I skimmed the thread, and I don't see one use for this team, name one GOOD one, not something you couldn't do as a normal staff member.

Actually help playerworlds that need it...

EoA needs scripters, but we get no help from anyone, not even the GST...

N-Pulse needs LAT help, but they can't get it...

if there were a GDT, we could each get help from it.

I am basically posting this as a suggestion, since I do not feel the GGT, and GST do a good job with helping PW's out with their development needs, and also, there is no global staff a PW can turn to for help with levels...
AND, with a team of 9 developers, there would be enough to go from server to server, actually looking for stolen material.... unlike the PWA, who have to wait for someone to report it... who knows how much stolen material there is out there, just no-one's reported it.

and I ment how you said it was a "cry for power" yet no-one here has asked for power
o.o

[Python523]

I see no reason as to why some scripters and LATs can't just go to NPulse and EoA to help; if people would volunteer to help AFTER they got power then it proves they are only in it for the power.

"there would be enough to go from server to server, actually looking for stolen material.... unlike the PWA, who have to wait for someone to report it..."
Um. Yea. I'm not even going to try to understand that logic. Do you really expect people in go on >100 servers and look at EVERYTHING? Most of them don't allow public access anyway.

"since I do not feel the GGT, and GST do a good job with helping PW's out with their development needs"
If our purpose was to do that, then sure, we would do that, but alas, we are not a team of script *****es

[Darlene159]

Go help the pw's on your own without the global part....99.9% sure it aint gonna happen

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Python523

I see no reason as to why some scripters and LATs can't just go to NPulse and EoA to help; if people would volunteer to help AFTER they got power then it proves they are only in it for the power.

not true, as I said earlier, some people just want recognition...

and besides, if I could have gotten scripting help for my server, do you think I'd bother giving it as an example? There isn't anyone to help my server with scripting... if this team were inacted, maybe they'd actually help. Just because some people are power hungry, doesn't mean everyone is...

Originally Posted by Python523

Um. Yea. I'm not even going to try to understand that logic. Do you really expect people in go on >100 servers and look at EVERYTHING? Most of them don't allow public access anyway.

that's pretty easy... all they have to do is check like 4 servers a day (wouldn't be that hard with 9 staff members), and assuming there were 200 servers, they'd be done in 50 days... like a month and a half. Also, I'm sure they could do more than 4 servers a day, especially on weekends. And I ment they would only check what areas are public... since what players can't see isn't as important.

Originally Posted by Python523

If our purpose was to do that, then sure, we would do that, but alas, we are not a team of script *****es

Isn;t that my whole point? Right now the GST and GGT do not help PWs adiquatly (sp?) with their development needs... if a PW needs help, they'd be lucky if a GST member does 1 script for them.... and that doesn't even help, because after that they are just left where they were before, exept with 1 more script o.o Obviously there is a strain on developers since you could buy your own PW, which is why I thought it would be nice to have an official team there to help with that problem. Also, what does the GST do? and GGT? if all you do is make stuff for GK, and maybe do a little helping on the side (dispite it not being your job) why are you GLOBAL, and not just GK staff?

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Go help the pw's on your own without the global part....99.9% sure it aint gonna happen

If people did that, we wouldn't be having this problem now would we?
would be nice if the problem solved itself, but I doubt it will...

[Python523]

'if this team were inacted, maybe they'd actually help"

You're missing my point. If you can't find anyone to help you, where would you find people for this team? People who just want power, doesn't it feel great to use deductive reasoning

"And I ment they would only check what areas are public... since what players can't see isn't as important"
Um, then that completely ruins the point of inspecting things if they are public; if they are public the public eye will see them far quicker than 1-2 people would

"Isn;t that my whole point? Right now the GST and GGT do not help PWs adiquatly (sp?) with their development needs"
Well, with some exceptions like someone quitting which can be understood, playerworlds shouldn't NEED help, why spend money on something you can't create with your own resources (resources being your skills and other staff members' skills)



"if all you do is make stuff for GK, and maybe do a little helping on the side (dispite it not being your job) why are you GLOBAL, and not just GK staff?"
Not sure about the other GST but most of the work I do is behind the scenes so I would say you should not make ANY assumptions about me

[Darlene159]

Jagen, I am just gonna watch the replies to what you say because you always beat me and you say what I want to say, lol
=P

[Dach]

I seem to be late, but whatever.
The idea is idealistic, meaning it would be nice but the practical implications of it are simply non-existant in Graal. The ratio of servers to good developers is outrageous, you can't expect one team of super-devs to fix a reasonably worthy amount of subject matter on the servers. As it stands now, you have the GST to help out on complex things, and GGT to do whatever it is they do. A GDT would just hash those two together and add some level people, which isn't really worth the trouble, as the PWA/GST members have already said. (yeah big woids, shutup)

Dunno where you guys got the idea that us big bad scripters see scripting as more important than any other dev area... Each area is just as important as the next, unbalancing them gives you interesting results which I see no need of relating right now...

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Python523

You're missing my point. If you can't find anyone to help you, where would you find people for this team? People who just want power, doesn't it feel great to use deductive reasoning

I already answered this, try reading my whole post, instead of skimming, and re-stating your same argument... but anyways, as long as the people did work, it would help o.o

Originally Posted by Python523

Um, then that completely ruins the point of inspecting things if they are public; if they are public the public eye will see them far quicker than 1-2 people would

It's easier for someone to see if something is stolen, if they are spicifically looking for stolen material. The job of handling stolen material is being done now by 3, I don't think it's a streach of the imagination for 9 people to be able to do 3 times as much.

Originally Posted by Python523

Well, with some exceptions like someone quitting which can be understood, playerworlds shouldn't NEED help, why spend money on something you can't create with your own resources (resources being your skills and other staff members' skills)

Yes, people quit... I lost my main scripter... N-Pulse lost it's LAT's...
And I posted origionally saying that the GDT would do development projects for public PW's... and they would help private PW's rebuild their development teams, so they can be self sufficient.

Originally Posted by Python523

Not sure about the other GST but most of the work I do is behind the scenes so I would say you should not make ANY assumptions about me

I wasn't assuming anything, I was asking and if you refuse to answer, I can do nothing but assume...

Originally Posted by Dach

A GDT would just hash those two together and add some level people, which isn't really worth the trouble, as the PWA/GST members have already said.

No, the GGT, and GST don't even have to help PW's AT ALL. It would be nice to have a development team that PW managers could count on to answer their development questions, and if they need a little hlep, they could count on this team to guide them twards their goals...

[Birdbird_0]

Idealistic.

No one's going to do this for any reason besides a global RC or tag, content that will be produced will be halfass at best with out experence on the server.

Just another RC grab, I'm sorry.

[VeX_RaT_Boy]

Originally Posted by ETD

No, the GGT, and GST don't even have to help PW's AT ALL. It would be nice to have a development team that PW managers could count on to answer their development questions, and if they need a little hlep, they could count on this team to guide them twards their goals...

...except Loriel, who helps people

I asked many GST members about something, the only one that responded was Loriel. The other DID look at the forum PM I sent, but didn't even bother to respond.

<3 Loriel

[syltburk]

I only have one comment...

This is just so stupid... You are saying that GLT is stupid.. how many times do i have to say it... ITS THE SAME THING AS GGT AND GST..... THEY WOULD DO THE SAME THING....
I'm not saying we should have a GLT team, but if you think this is stupid, what the **** is GGT and GLT then???

[WanDaMan]

Fine screw it. I don't recall asking for RC at all, I Don't want to be a retarded GST who think they are higher than everyone else and just idle on RCs what gives them publicity i.e Era.
We see Tseng idle there and he does nothing for era, and he is assistant manager wait, I recall him doing an illegal gun what kills in one, awww corruptness like nemesis

It's obvious you GST people don't want to be put to shame by this, well guess what. You allready are, How many servers have you helped without Stefan there? I mean only classic server you've helped is probably Zone

I'd thought this would be a great idea, but it's obvious you just won't accept it. I mean what's the point? GGT, GST, GLT Would of been great.

To me it sounds like you are classing the level makers as retards who have no meaning on graal. Cough* without us there wouldn't be servers like era or zone, o-wait i guess you didn't think about that?

And to get a staff job like everyone else? why in hell dosn't GST AND GGT DO THAT? I MEAN THEY ARE JUST LIKE US I GUESS. THEY DON'T NEED GLOBAL RC AND MOONGOD EVEN YOU STATED THAT.

Hahahaha, Such a wierd coincidence, Seems to me like if you don't make GDT looks like Moongods comment will cause some fury about GST (which I may add is correct)

[DarkShadows_Legend]

ETD. N-Pulse has plenty of LAT help. Don't bring them into your arguments because all the scripters you have had bailed out on you.

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

ETD. N-Pulse has plenty of LAT help. Don't bring them into your arguments because all the scripters you have had bailed out on you.

Hrmm he isn't, GST promised they'd help and they didn't. Atleast if this team is formed he'll be getting some help

[DarkShadows_Legend]

I think he only wants this team formed so he can get help, then if he gets none he'll start up with complaining about how they aren't helping him.

Angel and RObin did actually go to help him and we know those 2 are pretty friendly and will help people, except for RObin he kinda blew up in that other thread with ETD.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

ETD. N-Pulse has plenty of LAT help. Don't bring them into your arguments because all the scripters you have had bailed out on you.

I was thinking that, but wasnt 100% sure, so I didnt say anything...

Atleast if this team is formed he'll be getting some help

lol, isnt that the point for doing it?

[ETD]

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

I think he only wants this team formed so he can get help, then if he gets none he'll start up with complaining about how they aren't helping him.

oh yea, so first I'm doing this to get more power, and now I'm doing this to get help on my PW? gesh, can't you just take it that I posted an idea for the betterment of graal, and not for some selfish reason? Is this what problems everyone has when they try to suggest something?

And about n-pulse, it was an EXAMPLE, and I said that, because JULI, the MANAGER of n-pulse has TOLD me that they are in need of LAT's.

PD, the only scripter that 'bailed' on me was you, so I don;t see why you say that.

And if you have to know, the GST did come on EoA, but did NOTHING. Angel came on, and wouldn;t watch RC long enough for me to explain even part of the storyline... finally I just gave her 3 scripts we needed fixed, and told her what we needed done, and she said she'd work on it that night.... the next day she came on RC, and I asked her, and she said she was too busy to even start the say before (which is ok) but then she went AFK and idled on RC for the day, then logged off, and never got on again o.o
Robin and I had a missunderstanding, because I asked him what he could do... he said a little graphics, but mostly scripting, and so I asked him to do a script which required you to make a simple template (the gfx don;t even have to be good), but he said no... so then I asked him to make another script, and again, he said no... so I finally asked him what HE wanted to script, since nothing I came up with he liked.... that seemed to make him mad, and he said something like "how am I supposed to script without rights?" and then I said something like "you'll get rights when you deside on what you're going to script" and then he blew up, and I kicked him off RC
o.o
As for loriel... he's a nice guy, and he stayed on RC, listened to the theme, and all that... but when it came to actually doing work, he did NOTHING. I waited like a week, and he kept saying he forgot.... then he'd log on RC, then say he forgot he was on RC... then he finally asked me to remind him that he needed to help... I did so, but no luck

The only scripter out of the whole bunch which was able to actually help was Osrs... and he's not GST or anything.

Can you guys try to discuss the SUGGESTION instead of trying to discredit me? Even if I WAS saying this for a selfish reason, does that make it a bad idea right off the bat? no... so stop trying to attack me, and start discussing the idea please? If you don't like the idea, fine, everyone is free to their own opinion, but there's no reason to attack me for suggesting it.

[syltburk]

Lol I remember when R0bin was online xone... Now that was stupid...
He seem to missunderstand alot...

[WanDaMan]

Robin's cool.
And if the team is formed ETD will be getting help from me I'm assuming, so with N-Pulse. Any fricken server to be honest.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Python523

I skimmed the thread, and I don't see one use for this team, name one GOOD one, not something you couldn't do as a normal staff member.

Then why are you GST? Why -are- there GST's and GGT's? My little side idea was to just "hump" (you people know what I want to say >:O!) GST and GGT and "transfer" them to GDT. It's kind of like having "developers" on servers without having lats, nats, and such.

[syltburk]

Make an un-offical GDT guild... For people that actually will do work.

[Spark910]

I guess to prove its not just for rights if a group of people started this, got trusted and the people recieving the service chucked feedback towards people like stefan/me we could then look into making it an official staff team, after those people have proved to be trust worthy then it would have more chance.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Robin's cool.
And if the team is formed ETD will be getting help from me I'm assuming, so with N-Pulse. Any fricken server to be honest.

A team has to be formed in order for you to help ETD, or Npulse, or other servers?
This is what I dont understand...why does a global team have to be formed in order for certain people to help other servers? If it's for recognision, you can be recognised for the work you do without being a global. Is it because you think if you are a global, people will listen to you, or have to listen to you?
The more posts I read on this subject, the more I am inclined to believe that some of the people wanting in on this, have an interior (sp) motive.

I dont think people are just made globals for specific areas, I think globals are picked from being recognised for their work and commitment to Graal...people who dont always ask for positions, people who really dont care about having the RC or the tag, and what-not, but only care about helping Graal. Also, troublemaking history should be looked at when choosing someone for a Global position (which is lacking).
It isnt something that should just be handed out freely.....

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Spark910

I guess to prove its not just for rights if a group of people started this, got trusted and the people recieving the service chucked feedback towards people like stefan/me we could then look into making it an official staff team, after those people have proved to be trust worthy then it would have more chance.

I guess that would be good... as long as they're trust worthy people, and you can count on them... maybe if they make a website, with their own forums, so people can ask development questions, and get their answers there... and like, they can request help on the site, and then the team could scout out stolen material on PW's... I dunno

o.o
anyways, this was just an idea, guess it won't happen, no biggy.

But I'm still wondering what the exact responcibilities of the GGT and the GST are...
(may I ask the thread be closed... since the discussion has prettymuch ended, I'd rather this not continue into just more arguing for nothing.)

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

A team has to be formed in order for you to help ETD, or Npulse, or other servers?
This is what I dont understand...why does a global team have to be formed in order for certain people to help other servers? If it's for recognision, you can be recognised for the work you do without being a global. Is it because you think if you are a global, people will listen to you, or have to listen to you?
The more posts I read on this subject, the more I am inclined to believe that some of the people wanting in on this, have an interior (sp) motive.

I dont think people are just made globals for specific areas, I think globals are picked from being recognised for their work and commitment to Graal...people who dont always ask for positions, people who really dont care about having the RC or the tag, and what-not, but only care about helping Graal. Also, troublemaking history should be looked at when choosing someone for a Global position (which is lacking).
It isnt something that should just be handed out freely.....

So people know they can trust us; I mean, would you hire some people who you don't know but they claim to be a member of a team of some sort?, I don't want global RC's at all. I'd just rather have a tag o.O
Hrmm, you asked for your position back :P. Without the tag we would just be called liers..
I know, but If you just give us the tags people would trust us, I mean why wouldn't they? I understand unix is pretty pissed off about what has happend, but once again.. What halm can be done with tags? And no If I was the member/owner I wouldn't hire corrupt people. One slight of trouble from them they're gone, or if they don't work/help people whom ask even if they hate them. I don't belive in that crap.
For the last time, hopefully. I wouldn't like to have this team to have global RC, We wouldn't need it. If people want help they should come to us, like they do with GST. Even if we do get global RC (Which we wont, which I like without it) we wouldn't go on the servers what dosn't need scripts (i.e Era) just like the GST. So why would I want an RC? They could give us RC (the staff) if they wanted, but All I care about is the tags to show proof of this.

[ETD]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

All I care about is the tags to show proof of this.

As they said, you can make a guild tag for it, then hire only the members you want.... People know you, and I think they know they can trust you. If you guys had a website as well, then I don;t see why people wouldn;t believe you...

unless they thought you were just some anti-graal group trying to get RC rights to take down a bunch of servers... that would be bad o.o but I don;t think they'd think that

I didn;t think you'd want to do it, since you don't seem to into graal anymore... but if you want to, then good luck... maybe you can make this team work, if you try... it'll just take a little more work than if they just made the team right off... but you'll deserve more credit in the end this way.

(again, thread close please?)

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by ETD

As they said, you can make a guild tag for it, then hire only the members you want.... People know you, and I think they know they can trust you. If you guys had a website as well, then I don;t see why people wouldn;t believe you...

unless they thought you were just some anti-graal group trying to get RC rights to take down a bunch of servers... that would be bad o.o but I don;t think they'd think that

I didn;t think you'd want to do it, since you don't seem to into graal anymore... but if you want to, then good luck... maybe you can make this team work, if you try... it'll just take a little more work than if they just made the team right off... but you'll deserve more credit in the end this way.

(again, thread close please?)

Don't close thread
And hrmm I guess I know quite a few UC servers etc, so I guess so. I have a vip so I can get a host or something..
And I'm not into graal I find it very boring, but I guess it's something to do. Apart from going to school and doing my weights, i'm pretty bored...
I'll ask a friend to make the guild, get set up, make a website.. And then talk to spark..

[syltburk]

Lol wan i remember when you and me for some time went to server to server together =P

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by syltburk

Lol wan i remember when you and me for some time went to server to server together =P

Yup, me and spanky did to at one point

http://www.graalonline.com/guilds/gu...p?type=pending
Support if you wish
Graal Leveling Team

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by ETD

the point would be to help improve the staff teams on each PW... [...]

We do that already, I think.

Also, it would be nice to have more then just 3 people incharge of looking for stolen material (well, as of now the PWA only does something if it is reported)

Hardly going to happen I think: If no one reports it, then it is not a problem, and checking all 150+ PWs is not realistic anyway.

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Why dont they just hire a NAT/GAT if they want to help on a playerworld rather than making them global?

That is what I said.

A GDT would be like GST and GGT but also with the level division mixed up into one tag. Makes things easier too I guess.

Would it not make it harder to manage as well? I do not want some random levels guy ordering me around just because he might be higher in rank

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by Loriel

That is what I said.

Would it not make it harder to manage as well? I do not want some random levels guy ordering me around just because he might be higher in rank

eh but he wouldn't. Read again, spark would be the owner.

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by ETD

no-one's going to help out a bunch of PW's, just to get nothing in return...

You would not get anything if were global either.

also, people who do this will just be seen as another person offering help, but not actually doing anything...

Which is another problem with the GDT idea.

Why would they go to a PW, and tell them how to improve, when I thought I said that they would recieve help if they ask for it o.o

Enough PWs are asking for help in this forum... just go and help them, yes?

I haven't seen a single person ask for a possition on this team in this thread... actually, I haven't seen anyone ask for any staff possition of any kind in this thread

But is that not kind of implied here? Hm.

actually, I probably would have rather RECIEVED help from this team, than GIVE help to others... You should know I have my hands full enough with my own server....

That means you are unable to get staff on your own, and instead you want to indirectly get staff by getting them to be global and then make them work on your server... ?

As for wan, I don't think he's doing much graal related besides a little side work on his own server... I doubt he would have even been a member either...

But he most likely would have tried.

Just because we'd like a team formed, because we think it would be the best thing for classic playerworlds, doesn't mean we want to be a part of it... I don't see why you'd assume such a thing

Perhaps you really do not, I do not know. But why do you think such is the best thing for PWs?

[WanDaMan]

I would of probably tried out, to get me more involved in graal..

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

just idle on RCs what gives them publicity i.e Era.

The GSTs that idle there are as well considered local staff, so this is not the right place to complain about that; further I am rather certain that they are less idling and more working on things beyond your view.

We see Tseng idle there and he does nothing for era, and he is assistant manager wait, I recall him doing an illegal gun what kills in one, awww corruptness like nemesis

Local staff, you see. And, I would like how you are as well informed about what Lance is doing all day long.

It's obvious you GST people don't want to be put to shame by this, well guess what. You allready are, How many servers have you helped without Stefan there? I mean only classic server you've helped is probably Zone

I see not why I should be ashamed for being GST. I could probably do the same job without the tag / RC, and I have been doing it before GST was created, and I am still doing it, whether you recognize it or not, sorry.

I'd thought this would be a great idea, but it's obvious you just won't accept it. I mean what's the point? GGT, GST, GLT Would of been great.

No one is arguing that you think that this is a great idea. The reasons you give are being argued.

To me it sounds like you are classing the level makers as retards who have no meaning on graal. Cough* without us there wouldn't be servers like era or zone, o-wait i guess you didn't think about that?

There is an increasing amount of complaints about levels being stolen, that is true, but I think the GST or PWA can still handle that.
It is more complicated and significant for a playerworld's fate to teach someone scripting than it is to teach someone to make levels, and at least for copyright reasons it is more significant to have a graphics administration than it is to have a levels one. No random corporation is going to sue Graal because we use their levels, and also no attacker is going to use security problems in levels to cause problems.

And to get a staff job like everyone else? why in hell dosn't GST AND GGT DO THAT? I MEAN THEY ARE JUST LIKE US I GUESS. THEY DON'T NEED GLOBAL RC AND MOONGOD EVEN YOU STATED THAT.

The GGT has been before me, I cannot answer for them. The GST was assigned a global RC so we can log in and appear official if I remember correctly, as we were originally not going to get a tag, which is also what you request so I give you that point. We have no significant admin rights, and we usually log only on a server if it is with former agreement with the staff anyway. Another nice reason for this is that all of us have been admins for a long time and eh, it does not hurt to have RC.

Hahahaha, Such a wierd coincidence, Seems to me like if you don't make GDT looks like Moongods comment will cause some fury about GST (which I may add is correct)

I doubt that.

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

Angel and RObin did actually go to help him and we know those 2 are pretty friendly and will help people, except for RObin he kinda blew up in that other thread with ETD.

I helped too, it was some time ago but I am rather convinced that I actually refactored some scripts and fixed some others.
ETD did not get along with R0bin so R0bin left, if I remember correctly.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Loriel

That is what I said.

What I am trying to get at is that you people keep insisting that people should just go out and help playerworlds rather than having tags (which, by the way, builds up on the trustworthyness so you dont have to worry about your levels being haxed up) and yet GST and GGT are still around.

:/ why have GST and GGT if you shot down GDT when GST and GGT are the same, if not "worst" than having a global development team which cover all 3 developmental areas rather than just 2?

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by ETD

PD, the only scripter that 'bailed' on me was you, so I don;t see why you say that.

Are you not continously accusing us of bailing out on you?

The only scripter out of the whole bunch which was able to actually help was Osrs... and he's not GST or anything.

Which further proves one of the arguments against a GDT.

Can you guys try to discuss the SUGGESTION instead of trying to discredit me?

Hey, it was you that just made a two ton post about this