Spellcasting improvements

[Admins]

The spell casting has been improved:
- when pressing S to fire the wand, or pressing a hotkey for firing a spell then it is automatically firing into the direction of the mouse or the object below the mouse
- if your spells are locked onto an object and you want to aim other things, press A to unlock
- aiming objects is simplier now since it allows a bigger distance from the mouse to the object (good for aiming running players)
- when aiming monsters it is easier finding the monster since it is only aiming real monsters (not light effects or so), this improvement only works with v4

We will soon change most spells to be able to be directed, effects like fire breathe and lightning will go into the direction your are aiming. They will also be smaller but slightly more powerful.

Another thing we have fixed are the burybag messages which often displayed when another players came close to the object.

[Butz]

Sounds like some decent improvements.

Is there a way to make it so we can lock onto a target just by clicking on them?

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Butz

Sounds like some decent improvements.

Is there a way to make it so we can lock onto a target just by clicking on them?

Hehe that's what I was hoping this was when I heard of it. Perhaps some kind of indicator, which only the casting player sees, of who the target is (I hope this isn't too Zeldaish).

[Admins]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Hehe that's what I was hoping this was when I heard of it. Perhaps some kind of indicator, which only the casting player sees, of who the target is (I hope this isn't too Zeldaish).

Hmmm like you click on a player or a monster while wearing the wand ? Could add something to display the target yes

About making it optional: why making it optional, without this you cannot really target anything which makes the spells quite hard to use

[Butz]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Hmmm like you click on a player or a monster while wearing the wand ? Could add something to display the target yes

About making it optional: why making it optional, without this you cannot really target anything which makes the spells quite hard to use

Sometimes you want to simply fire the spell straight ahead though, like if you're casting Icestorm. If you aren't keeping track of your mouse, it'll still fire towards it.

Maybe make it so it doesn't target the mouse pointer if the cursor is outside the Graal window?

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Stefan

- when pressing S to fire the wand, or pressing a hotkey for firing a spell then it is automatically firing into the direction of the mouse or the object below the mouse

Make this optional.

[MasterNuke]

Originally Posted by Stefan

The spell casting has been improved:
- when pressing S to fire the wand, or pressing a hotkey for firing a spell then it is automatically firing into the direction of the mouse or the object below the mouse
- if your spells are locked onto an object and you want to aim other things, press A to unlock
- aiming objects is simplier now since it allows a bigger distance from the mouse to the object (good for aiming running players)
- when aiming monsters it is easier finding the monster since it is only aiming real monsters (not light effects or so), this improvement only works with v4

We will soon change most spells to be able to be directed, effects like fire breathe and lightning will go into the direction your are aiming. They will also be smaller but slightly more powerful.

1. This meaning casters now need to either have 3 hands to play instead of two or change our Graal controls to take full advantage of this.

2. Soon, our bolt type spells will affect less people, but will only be -slightly- more powerful. Still doesn't do anything about how gimped they are against fast moving targets.


Stefan, I'd like you try out this system for yourself. Try and hit someone with 5+ speed dodging spells and hitting you with a dagger.

Seriously, unless we have 3 arms or have a gamepad on the floor to use our toes, this makes us more of a sitting duck.

[Admins]

Well this makes it 100 times easier to target someone, how the hell do you want to use those spells without targetting and still have a chance to hit?
If you don't target spells then it's just about 'filling the whole map with spells and escape the enemy long enough until he runs long enough through those area spells so that he loses some hp'
May be until now the spells were just to lame other players but that should change so that they actually have some purpose. You only need two hands, one for pressing S or the hotkey and one for moving the mouse or the player.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well this makes it 100 times easier to target someone, how the hell do you want to use those spells without targetting and still have a chance to hit?
If you don't target spells then it's just about 'filling the whole map with spells and escape the enemy long enough until he runs long enough through those area spells so that he loses some hp'
May be until now the spells were just to lame other players but that should change so that they actually have some purpose. You only need two hands, one for pressing S or the hotkey and one for moving the mouse or the player.

The key term. The penultimate operator. OR. Graal Kingdoms has created an enviornment where speed and mobility, even in things as deliberate as spellcasting, are essential.

[Admins]

Sorry I don't see any sense in using those spells just horizontally or vertically if not for laming. If you fight only against one player you can even target the player now and later don't need to use the mouse anymore, just select the spells you want to use via hotkeys or switch to a weapon in the middle.

[MasterNuke]

Moving, casting, and targeting. ASD keys uses 1 hand. Arrow keys uses 1 hand. Mouse uses 1 hand. That is 3 hands unless you decide to break from old habits and use the num pad.

Spells are useless even when targeting other players because they have like 3 seconds to dodge them because spells are SLOW.

Anyway... can you instead make it so it it targets when you hold A while S casting instead of A to not target cast?

[HoudiniMan]

I suggest a couple less powerful but quick spells. Things that shoot very fast towards the target but dont hurt as much as a full spell.

Perhaps even having it as an option for the current spells?

Ie: Rapid magic bullet would hurt 1/2 as much and travel 3 times faster or so to hit fast moving players etc.

[MasterNuke]

Originally Posted by HoudiniMan

I suggest a couple less powerful but quick spells. Things that shoot very fast towards the target but dont hurt as much as a full spell.

Perhaps even having it as an option for the current spells?

Ie: Rapid magic bullet would hurt 1/2 as much and travel 3 times faster or so to hit fast moving players etc.

But really... they should be 2 times faster and not have reduced damage or 5 times faster and have 75% damage and a higher mana cost. Magic damage is already horrible. Reducing it any further will just make it do no damage at all.

Think about it. Fighters are faster, stronger, more armored, higher damage, more itemized, and favored by the majority of Graal. In fact, Fighters can shoot BETTER projectiles than magic users can. What is it you ask? A bow. Bows are faster, stronger, can adopt different attacktypes, AND CAN INTERUPT SPELLS.
Lets not forget that MOST MONSTERS ARE BUILT AROUND FIGHTERS. Why else would it require me to burn ALL my spellpoints in maps with a good possibility of not even finishing it while a person with less physique level can complete the same map ~30-40% faster than me without even going below 85% HP. WHY does it require SO MUCH MORE to be JUST AS EFFECTIVE?

About interupting spells... when you're hit while casting a spell, THE DELAY WILL KEEP GOING. Casting a spell against someone with 6+ speed is potential suicide as they will walk up while I cast and if my cast animation is long, my spell is interupted AND I'm stuck there until the duration of the cast delay ends. This is likely about 6-10 free hits which is about half my health because I'm wearing caster gear.

[Valder]

I'm going to agree with Ed here. Spell cast time needs to be reduced and certain spells need to be made stronger. It takes too long to cast most spells and dodging them is extremely easy. Not to mention that most players that actually participate in sparring already are at a high level and can run around like the wind.

[GoZelda]

Stefan, you are saying that the old system results in laming. The only way for a caster to win is by using "lame" spells such as bullet storm that clog up the map. Homing bullets are so slow people can easily go and walk behind something to block the spells. Some people even have the time to lay down an item to block a homing missile. I agree with Ed.

[myth-simba]

If theyare unable to enjoy the update maybe add another option?
type a command or something and allow the player to decide. will spells be casted as they werew before or from their mouse.
it will be better if they can chose then all players be happy with their own methods of magic casting.

[cutelilmurderer]

The new magic system was brilliant, aim with the mouse and hit the target from miiiiles away. Certain spells like Large Bullet would peirce a few enemies in a row. Brillant. Why has it been reset to the old way? The old way is frustrating, so at least tell me why Stefan!!

[Craigus]

Il have you know super speed fighters often have -52 magic resistance i know i do!

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Craigus

Il have you know super speed fighters often have -52 magic resistance i know i do!

Yeah, but some of them worship Balor and have high speed, magic+ resistance and flaming aura

[Draenin]

Oh, cool. So now we get to lock onto enemies and hit them with SHADOWS.

[Admins]

Ok made it so that you can cast without targetting by pressing A when casting (not exactly what you wanted but at least better).
Spells will be made faster.
Eventually we can reduce the spell charging time for low level / simple spells ? Currently a single fireball and a meteor swarm is taking the same time to prepare.

[MasterNuke]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Ok made it so that you can cast without targetting by pressing A when casting (not exactly what you wanted but at least better).
Spells will be made faster.
Eventually we can reduce the spell charging time for low level / simple spells ? Currently a single fireball and a meteor swarm is taking the same time to prepare.

Err... I mean can you make it so pressing A when you cast makes it target.

Also... we don't have access to the spell meteor swarm :/

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Stefan

About making it optional: why making it optional, without this you cannot really target anything which makes the spells quite hard to use

It's annoying for spells like create pool of chaos/icestorm/firebolt/pretty much all spells that don't involve firing off a single projectile.

[Admins]

Originally Posted by Googi

It's annoying for spells like create pool of chaos/icestorm/firebolt/pretty much all spells that don't involve firing off a single projectile.

All those spells will be directed/targeted spells soon. Some will use projectiles, some will use smaller but more efficient area effects.

About spell graphics: right now they are not needed, we are doing particle effects for them, which should be faster than the old effects since the old effects were fully scripted and can slow down slow machines (at least when having the screen full of them).

About the new modifications: I can also undo the spell casting improvements until the new spells things are done, but I thought you might like this, some people also said they like that they can much easier target objects now, like healing friends by pressing a hotkey instead of opening the spell menu and dragging an icon onto them.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Stefan

some people also said they like that they can much easier target objects now, like healing friends by pressing a hotkey instead of opening the spell menu and dragging an icon onto them.

Unless they neglect their mouse and accidentally heal someone else.

Moving the mouse just for directions is EVERYBIT as bad as the (wholly simple) process of dragging an icon.

[Draenin]

Actually, the spellcasting is quite annoying period. It makes spellcasting in battles even harder than it already is, and makes combat for mages frustrating to the level of impossibility. We should just be able to double-click or right-click an enemy to target, because sometimes it's nice not having to aim to fire something straight ahead. I don't want to have to use the mouse to fire a straght shot. Also, the animations for some spells take way too long. Low end spells should require less concentration on the character's part, while higher ones should take more.

Also, the spells still need gfx. Open up a thread for spell gfx submissions and what's needed or something already. Sheesh. -_-

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Also, the spells still need gfx. Open up a thread for spell gfx submissions and what's needed or something already. Sheesh. -_-

I could work on some

[Valder]

I'm personally starting to hate it myself. When I weaken a target and try to cast wounds on it, I usually forget about the mouse thing and it ends up going a completely different direction I want it to.

[Draenin]

I have the same exact problem.

Anyone care if I put up the spell gfx submission thread?

[MasterNuke]

And Freakin Stop Nerfing Magic!!! I Get Back On To Try Something And My Spells Are Even Weaker Than Before!!!

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

And Freakin Stop Nerfing Magic!!! I Get Back On To Try Something And My Spells Are Even Weaker Than Before!!!

capslol.

[MasterNuke]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

capslol.

I'm trying to make a point. These "improvements" are just killing us further. Chaos pool only lasts 1/2 as long now. -.-

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

I'm trying to make a point. These "improvements" are just killing us further. Chaos pool only lasts 1/2 as long now. -.-

I know it sucks, it just was funny how that retarded caps lock thingy screwed over your post.

But seriously. Bows might be slightly slower but still are faster then spells, do more damage, have more sideeffects (go figure) and diverse attacktypes (go figure) and have a higher hit chance too.

[MasterNuke]

But people who DON'T want to cast in a direction are casting in a direction involuntarily and possibly accidently healing their enemies. It'd be much better if you make it so if you hold A while casting, it targets to the mouse cursor, instead of how it is now. As it is now, it bothers spellcasters AND everyone else. Sure it may be easier to target things, but it's much much harder to not target anything.

[Waltz5]

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

It'd be much better if you make it so if you hold A while casting, it targets to the mouse cursor, instead of how it is now.

I agree. This way what they implemented doesn't go totally to waste and can still be used.

[Draenin]

Right-click aiming would work just as well, and eliminate the need to drag an icon.

[Admins]

Well the question was just if it should be disabled for now,
later we can add an option to disable it although I doubt many people will try to use the spells without targetting them.
Also it is planned to display the current target.

[Draenin]

Disable it and work on an optional aiming system that doesn't involve opening up the menu and dragging the spell to aim your current spell at something.

[Admins]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Disable it and work on an optional aiming system that doesn't involve opening up the menu and dragging the spell to aim your current spell at something.

That's called hotkeys

[Draenin]

Hotkeys don't allow you to aim, though. You fire straight forward when using them. (And please don't make that the option for aiming, either.)