A Comedy of Species

[Sildae]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

I'll start this off with Gryffon, I suppose

Am I the only one rather disgusted by everybody making up lots of additional mythology that has no place within Graal to make their character something special?

[Evil_Lord_Sparda]

Originally Posted by Sildae

Am I the only one rather disgusted by everybody making up lots of additional mythology that has no place within Graal to make their character something special?

Yup.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Sildae

Am I the only one rather disgusted by everybody making up lots of additional mythology that has no place within Graal to make their character something special?

I am proof that you are not.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Sildae

Am I the only one rather disgusted by everybody making up lots of additional mythology that has no place within Graal to make their character something special?

Because Graal has such rich and vivid histories to draw from for a character!

Like the...no...well, how bout the...no, I don't suppose there's that either.

Gryffon's not "special". He lived in a monestary for two hundred years and has a personal "totem" animal, I suppose is what you'd call it.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

Gryffon's not "special"

He's a member of a race that doesn't appear to exist. Seems pretty special to me.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

He's a member of a race that doesn't appear to exist. Seems pretty special to me.

As opposed to Shawn, the fox-thingy? Why should we be limited to just Elf, Zormite, Dwarf, or Human? How did these races come to be in the first place?

People made them up.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

As opposed to Shawn, the fox-thingy?

I did not say that you were the only one.

Why should we be limited to just Elf, Zormite, Dwarf, or Human?

Because those are the only creatures that have any presence in the world.

Why do you need your character to be a winged vultureperson? The most believable backstory is the one with greatest parsimony.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I did not say that you were the only one.



Because those are the only creatures that have any presence in the world.

Why do you need your character to be a winged vultureperson? The most believable backstory is the one with greatest parsimony.

And why do they HAVE a presence? Because people MADE them have presence. Not that it matters. This is neither here nor there. This is a forum for official FOREST business in an official FOREST forum. If you wish to continue this debate, please do so in the general Kingdoms forum.

[Inspiration]

I think the point here is though, while there is nothing wrong with creativity, does your race really have any place at all on Graal?

If you were playing a Star Trek RPG, could you make your character into a Jedi Knight? Certainly not, as it would be completely out of place.

There is, in theory, nothing WRONG with your character, however to bring it into a world that already has defined races, is breaking basic rules of role playing.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

I think the point here is though, while there is nothing wrong with creativity, does your race really have any place at all on Graal?

If you were playing a Star Trek RPG, could you make your character into a Jedi Knight? Certainly not, as it would be completely out of place.

There is, in theory, nothing WRONG with your character, however to bring it into a world that already has defined races, is breaking basic rules of role playing.

Au contrare. Gryffon the Daveon first arrived on 2k1. I was accepted there, so it became a Graalian race by virtue of me playing it. 2K1 and 2K2 are interconnected. Bingo bango, connection. Regardlessly, it's really a frikkin moot point. Gryffon's not even a Daveon anymore, since he had a wee bit o' the sap.


Forest introduced Goblins for the first time to Graal's RP, because that's what a player wanted. Thusly, I say to ye, big whoop. Players define RP.

[Inspiration]

You're failing to see a very basic fact here.

The purpose of having regulations in a role playing community is so that role playing can actually take place. If everyone comes to a role playing session with an elaborate backstory, a custom race, and a custom class, so much time would be spent on explainations, no actual roleplaying would take place. Imagine if 10 role players got together, and each had a backstory that required 10 minutes of explaination.

Then, every time a situation comes up which would require abilities from that race to be brought into play, MORE time would be used on explainations.

So now imagine a Kingdom on Graal with 20 members in it, each having their own custom race. It would be chaotic.

My point is, if you're allowed to make a custom race, what is stopping everyone else? If everyone has a custom race, the whole RPing community would be too chaotic to work.

I don't understand how you don't see this logic.

[Waltz5]

I really don't see a problem with it because this is his history... I don't see Gryffon going on Graal shouting, "I'm a vulture like creature who got his wings cut off! You can't touch me!" Hey atleast Gryff is trying here... which isn't the case on GK nowadays.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Waltz5

I really don't see a problem with it because this is his history...

Well, that is not in dispute. But it also defines the history of the world, which has to be shared.

[GryffonDurime]

Je suis fatigue.

This is idiotic. The reality is, Graal Kingdoms has no central RP Enforcement besides the Kings. Big whoop, my character is special by an academic definition. Let's all JUMP DOWN EACH OTHERS THROATS OVER SEMANTICS.

I don't apply my race to my roleplaying accept with those who already know it. To most, I simply say that I'm a very old half-elf, which is technically true. But when I roleplay with Gryffon's close friends, such as Shawn or Padren, I often talk about my brother, other Daveons, and Obsydyon. Wow, my character is a FOREIGNER. All it does is add depth, which I only use by dolling out information to friends one spoonful at a time.

This technique seems VERY believable, realistic, and up to par. Does being a Daveon give me an advantage over other characters? No, Daveons eat dead things raw and have immortality without immortal youth. Sounds like a less powerful elf that eats sushi, to me.

I see no problem with it as long as it's balanced.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

This is idiotic. The reality is, Graal Kingdoms has no central RP Enforcement besides the Kings

Which just means that the kings should regulate the roleplaying of their subjects.

This technique seems VERY believable

What, because you say so?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

Je suis fatigue.

OH MY SPEAKING FRENCH NOW ARE WE?

This thread is crazy

[Inspiration]

No one is arguing that your character is unbalanced.

As I asked before, if you're making your own custom race within a RP environment with already defined races, what is stopping everyone else from doing so?

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

No one is arguing that your character is unbalanced.

As I asked before, if you're making your own custom race within a RP environment with already defined races, what is stopping everyone else from doing so?

The fact that they want to RP as an already defined race, rather than a loner? They can right now, but dont.

[Inspiration]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

The fact that they want to RP as an already defined race, rather than a loner? They can right now, but dont.

Is it the fact that they want to play as that race, or is it that they conform to the RPing environment they are in, as you're supposed to?

What if after reading your post, everyone else has now decided to make their own race? Would it not completely destroy RPing on GK?

The Kingdoms would become near meaningless. Time would be spent arguing whos race is better and for what reasons, until it got to the situation like Kai made an example of, where each person had to have an attibute that made them better than the rest.

While you yourself claim your race is in no way superior to another, what if I was to make a race that, inherently, is no better than any other race, however "Daveons" are allergic to the breath of my race, and it kills them instantly upon inhalation. This, mind you, is in no way a "power". It's a normally useless attibute to my race, until I happen to breathe on you.

Can you tell me this killer breath does not exist? How do you know it doesnt exist? Where is it written that it does not exist? I don't see anywhere in GK rules, history, or practice, where having Daveon killing breath is not possible. I'm just customizing my own race, which normally is magically and physically weaker than other races. This is its only special attribute, so obviously, my race is not overpowered in any way.

Am I to be allowed to create this character?

[zell12]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

Would it not completely destroy RPing on GK?

What is there to destroy?

[Inspiration]

Originally Posted by zell12

What is there to destroy?

If everyone is playing by standards like this, presumably nothing.

[Splke]

The fact of the matter is he has a character that is different. It isn't omniscient, it isn't God, it can't destroy the world in a blink of an eye, so shut the hell up.

If other people want to make their character into a God and disrupt the RP by doing exactly of what you've ranted on and on about for the past 2 pages, then let them. You can turn and yell at them for being idiots who probably enjoy the use of autoing.

The fact is the RP is FREEFORM, he can do whatever the hell he wants in a confine of mannered RP, plain and simple. Until his char blows up every other island then necromances the dead souls -- his character does nothing more then suit his fancy, and expand his RPing ability.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Splke

The fact of the matter is he has a character that is different. It isn't omniscient, it isn't God, it can't destroy the world in a blink of an eye, so shut the hell up

The fact of the matter is that he has a character designed to be special (which in itself is bad practice), one that makes new assertions about a world that has to be shared between all of the players, so shut the hell up.

[Waltz5]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

The fact of the matter is that he has a character designed to be special (which in itself is bad practice)

As of now he's like every other player, his past is "special."

one that makes new assertions about a world that has to be shared between all of the players

He was like that in his own world, Obsydon or whatever, and then came to Graal. So it doesn't have to be shared between all players since he's the only one from there.


Not saying I agree with it, I just don't see the big deal since it has no factor in game. People in game probably don't even know about it, it's just something he likes.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Waltz5

As of now he's like every other player, his past is "special."

Then he is special. A character's history is a part of what he is.

He was like that in his own world, Obsydon or whatever, and then came to Graal. So it doesn't have to be shared between all players since he's the only one from there

Now you're just equivocating. The term 'world' was not meant in the planetary sense.

Not saying I agree with it, I just don't see the big deal

Well, I hope you will someday manage to resolve that problem.

[Splke]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

The fact of the matter is that he has a character designed to be special (which in itself is bad practice), one that makes new assertions about a world that has to be shared between all of the players, so shut the hell up.

Where would any RP go if nothing new was inserted? Dwarves, Elves, hell, mythology itself was at a time new, and yet it's commonly used in RP now, so why not his idea? :|

[zell12]

Originally Posted by Splke

Where would any RP go if nothing new was inserted? Dwarves, Elves, hell, mythology itself was at a time new, and yet it's commonly used in RP now, so why not his idea? :|

You can't have everyone making their own races, just think about it.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by zell12

You can't have everyone making their own races, just think about it.

And what if people would be interested in this particular race?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Splke

Where would any RP go if nothing new was inserted? Dwarves, Elves, hell, mythology itself was at a time new, and yet it's commonly used in RP now, so why not his idea? :|

I'm not saying that there's anything fundamentally wrong with the idea. I'm saying that unregulated roleplaying is a bad thing. Letting individuals make drastic changes to the shape and history of the world is dangerous.

[busyrobot]

My 2 cents....I hate it when every player uses an amnesia backstory, but I don't mind at all when people use it rarely. Kai is talking about a theoretical danger, that everyone could as it stands, be a bunch of wierd made up races that result in a very disjointed community where no one knows what the heck anyone else is.

However, this has not happened in practice. Gryf is a rare unique race, and that can be consistant as long as rare and unique races in general are rare and unique. If and only if they become commonplace, is it an issue.

Also, the fear of everyone wanting crazy rp based powers as demons that can destroy whole cities - that is not happening either.

Considering that all of Kai's issues are with hypothetical problems that COULD occur, and given the number of literal and existing problems with RPing in GK today that DO occur and still persist and are problematic, I think the argument should be dismissed on the 'you are worrying about what?' note.

If everyone wanted a unique race, yes that would be annoying. However, its rare and he's been playing this character since 2k1.

[Butz]

In what little is written for an official backstory of Kingdoms, it mentions that the refugees from the original kingdoms fled the bomies and founded new kingdoms on the Archipelago. This means that the Archipelago is not the entire world, which means that there is leeway for other races from other lands that may not have been heard of by the cartographers of said Archipelago. Other than that, there is no canon backstory to encompass the entire world, so one person really can't bring up the claim that you're not allowed to use your imagination.

I certainly don't see a problem with Gryffon's character, as the racial difference merely seems to affect his character's personal values. Gryffon acts in a certain way and says certain things, because of the values of his culture.

It's really no different than two Humans, both raised in Human villages, except one was raised in a village of thieves, and therefore, acts radically different from the Human raised in a normal peaceful village. Though this difference isn't racial, they still have culture differences, and their actions have to be explained by the revelation of their past, just as how Gryffon's actions are explained through the revelation of his race. Two different ways to set a character apart from GENERIC RP CHARACTER A, but both just as valid.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Butz

I certainly don't see a problem with Gryffon's character

Well, I do not think you are the most impartial of judges. What species is your character, again?

It's really no different than two Humans, both raised in Human villages, except one was raised in a village of thieves

Except that thieves already exist in the gameworld, and don't need to be invented. Such a backstory would be well within the realm of believability, and wouldn't require any major modification of the shared universe.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Well, I do not think you are the most impartial of judges. What species is your character, again?



Except that thieves already exist in the gameworld, and don't need to be invented. Such a backstory would be well within the realm of believability, and wouldn't require any major modification of the shared universe.

ROLEPLAYING ANYTHING modifies the shared universe. It changes what has happened. Kaimetsu, it's not that you don't Rp on Thursdays- that's not germane to any kind of real point- it's that you don't roleplay on Thursdays in a certain room with certain people. That IS important- you know nothing of the actuality of how THAT GROUP roleplays.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

ROLEPLAYING ANYTHING modifies the shared universe

Did you notice that I used the word 'major'? And I didn't even need to go back and edit my post ^_^

Kaimetsu, it's not that you don't Rp on Thursdays- that's not germane to any kind of real point- it's that you don't roleplay on Thursdays in a certain room with certain people. That IS important- you know nothing of the actuality of how THAT GROUP roleplays.

1) "nothing"? Lil' bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? You think that playing GK is the only way to get a sense for how people roleplay therein?
2) How they do roleplay is irrelevant. This is about how they should roleplay.

[zell12]

I can see where Kai is comming from though. I don't think any kingdom, not just forest, should have a bunch of people running around saying they are [insert a bunch of crazy names here] when the kingdoms have specific races. Like Forest, they had Dwarfs, Elves, humans, and even some Orcs on a small island. (I might of forgot one e.e)

But anyway, there should be some regulation I suppose?

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

2) How they do roleplay is irrelevant. This is about how they should roleplay.

Heil mein fuhrer Kaimetsu, apparently.

Telling people who participate in an activity you don't, in a group setting you're not a part of, how to do something seems like you're making some mighty big assumptions (pardon the southern diction). You ASSUME you know the problems that riddle this particular community. You ASSUME you know the best ways to solve them. Most of all, you ASSUME that everyone follows one unwritten set of laws. Wow, Graal as a Roleplaying community dosen't, "uniques" are the minority, not the majority as all of your assumptions would have us believe, the higher ups of the community seem to be in agreement- you are the most overbearing link, goodbye.

[MasterNuke]

People want to be different. Deal with it.

[zell12]

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

People want to be different. Deal with it.

With some limitations, they can.

[GryffonDurime]

Whatever Kaimetsu. What you think/say has no bearing on the community. The people OF THE COMMUNITY have voiced their opinion, mostly in my favor, and you can do nothing to disaude this alluvion of opinion. The fact that you do HAVE the power nor right to inforce these arbitrary stereotypes of what is and is not proper roleplaying makes me happy. As a matter of fact, I'd venture to say that it makes me feel downright tingly.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

The people OF THE COMMUNITY have voiced their opinion, mostly in my favor

So you are saying that the majority opinion of any arbitrarily chosen set of people is automatically correct?

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

Whatever Kaimetsu. What you think/say has no bearing on the community

True. The absence of proper roleplaying regulations means that you can damage that element of the server in whatever way that you want. You can freely abuse whatever power you have in order to make yourself feel special. Like the script kiddy that abuses security flaws in order to grant himself power, you are quite able to boast about other people's inability to stop you. Kudos to you!