Roleplaying Admin

[Zurkiba]

It has become apparent that Graal 2002 is in need of a roleplaying admin to keep the kings in check.

When you do not have a person higher then a roleplaying king to keep the kings in check then what you get is, well you get the roleplaying condition of 2k2. Instead of Kingdoms, 2k2 now has four guilds that can upload weapons to a server.

So please install a roleplaying admin to oversee the kingdoms of 2k2. And make sure that the person can roleplay and doesn't run around screaming "LOL IT'S A GAME".

[Nappa]

I'm pretty sure this has been tried MANY times. I know that I once signed a little "petition" for one, but I'm not sure how far that got.

[Kaimetsu]

Got any candidates in mind?

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Got any candidates in mind?

Gryffon or Chris are my only candidates personally.

Then again that would mean Chris would have to quit his leadership position.

Edit// Ooh lets get Vermain back

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Ooh lets get Vermain back

For once we agree.

[--Chris--]

I agree.

Pre-written RP would be a good idea to help enforce this. RP admin can supervise and gets basic EM powers such as the team control (warp players) and monster (summon) control.

Date - Event - If (example in war) <Kingdom> is Victorious then <Result - New Event> else <Result - New Event> - Repeat.

[GoZelda]

How about me?!

[i]Hahaha who am I kidding[/b]
[b]Wren, Zoe etc. would never let me be because they could never give out items for no reason or win wars purely on powerplaying.[i/]

[Discharge]

All right, let us stop with the same people all the time, they get all the goodies. How about someone that has never had an opportunity and is well qualified? For example, me. All I ever do is role-play and is what I love doing as you are all aware of.

I happen to be one the greatest advocates of role-playing to the point of even getting censored by the powers that be.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Discharge

All right, let us stop with the same people all the time, they get all the goodies. How about someone that has never had an opportunity and is well qualified? For example, me. All I ever do is role-play and is what I love doing as you are all aware of.

I happen to be one the greatest advocates of role-playing to the point of even getting censored by the powers that be.

Yeah, you'd be a good RA.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by discharge

All right, let us stop with the same people all the time, they get all the goodies

This isn't a matter of sharing "goodies" between the players. If a certain person is more qualified then they should get staff positions more often. The fact that you think of these jobs as prizes rather than responsibilities doesn't inspire confidence.

Originally Posted by Discharge

How about someone that has never had an opportunity and is well qualified? For example, me

Merely stating that you are qualified doesn't count for much.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

This isn't a matter of sharing "goodies" between the players. If a certain person is more qualified then they should get staff positions more often. The fact that you think of these jobs as prizes rather than responsibilities doesn't inspire confidence.

Kai, please. You know very well that most of the goodies are spread amongst the 'powerplayers' and staff who very often or horrible at their tasks.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

You know very well that most of the goodies are spread amongst the 'powerplayers' and staff who very often or horrible at their tasks.

Again, not goodies. And yes, staff positions are often poorly assigned, but that doesn't validate Discharge's logic. A person shouldn't be passed over just because they've had staff positions in the past, or given preferential treatment if they haven't.

[FenixTheBanished]

Face it, most people on Debug get it because of other people, eg, Ana, Nayoko. Nayoko because of Bjorn, Ana, well, I'll leave that to the smart people. z.z

Jobs are usually handed to people staff know, trust, etc. Not always are they incompetent, and I don't think you can show an example of an incompetent staff that was vouched for by x staff.

I think James got up there himself though.. o-o


~

Anyways, an RP admin would be ignored.. What'r you going to do? Force people to RP? Doubtful. All you could do is rally the RP'ers, and show the non-s that RPing is good, and not just 'zomg peoples r getting itams 4 rping?!!", that's the only problem I see.

[xAndrewx]

Yea, I agree with Fenix, What would he do? Order people to RP? I would rather let the kingdom leaders start wars than have a RP admin do it.

[Zurkiba]

You fail to understand what a RP Admin does.

He keeps the kings in check. If a kingdom leader is bad, then that leader is removed. If a kingdom leader can roleplay. Then that leader is removed.

Well not just removed, the RP Admin would work with the kingdom leader to fix the problems.

If there is no check over the kings, then they turn into guilds that dont roleplay.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

If a kingdom leader can roleplay. Then that leader is removed.

Eh?

[Discharge]

My list for possible role-playing administrators would be:

Gryffon
Zurkiba

Reasons, well I’ve role-played with them and they can role-play. In addition, to my knowledge they don’t have any other staff obligations allowing them to focus completely on Role-playing administrating. Maybe more will come to my mind.

ADD:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Why, because the majority of people make good roleplaying admin candidates? You're assuming that we have some means for evaluating a person's competence and reliability, and if do then we can already eliminate the bad apples. If we don't, how do we know that the new person won't be a hundred times worse?

There’s a pool of people who can be potential excellent role-playing administrators. I’m just saying lets give the opportunity to someone who has not held a staff position. It’s possible that a fresh new person may not be a good role-playing administrator. Simply you just remove him and replace him.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I may not play Kingdoms, but I do want to see Graal prosper. Weak administrators don't much help that goal.

When did you become so benevolent?
So all of sudden you are concerned with role-playing?

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

So the only reason somebody could vote for you is that you're a good roleplayer? And if somebody else got more votes, it would be logical to assume that they're better?

My personal experience is pretty much irrelevant here. I merely asked if you could present any substantial evidence for your claim, and it seems that you cannot.

You see, in your opinion it’s not substantial evidence because you don’t role-play and therefore don’t know my reputation. Any additional evidence is not necessary. Your experience is relevant because your ignorance does not allow my evidence to be sufficient for you only.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

And yet you seem perfectly comfortable in telling me my reasons for posting here. One moment you can read my mind, the next you can't?

It’s known that you enjoy arguing. What no one can predict is who you pick to argue with.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Congratulations on your lack of self-control. It must be a fantastic trait for an administrator to possess.

Yea, I’m real out of control huh?

[GryffonDurime]

[QUOTE=Discharge][FONT=Palatino Linotype]My list for possible role-playing administrators would be:

Gryffon
Zurkiba

Reasons, well I’ve role-played with them and they can role-play. In addition, to my knowledge they don’t have any other staff obligations allowing them to focus completely on Role-playing administrating. Maybe more will come to my mind.
[/QUOTE=Discharge][/FONT=Palatino Linotype]

Actually, I'm Kingdom Administrator+ of Graal2001, and RP Admin and Project Manager of...

Something Else

As for Candidates, my list is:

Zurkiba
Discharge
Grirahan
John
Vlad
Tupper

Those are people who I've seen RP for a fact, who can catalyze change, and who know what they're doing.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Discharge

There’s a pool of people who can be potential excellent role-playing administrators. I’m just saying lets give the opportunity to someone who has not held a staff position

I know what you're saying, but I'm still waiting for you to explain why inexperience should be considered a positive factor.

So all of sudden you are concerned with role-playing?

I understand that English is not your first language, but it doesn't grant you license to misinterpret so spectacularly. I'm concerned with Graal, and Graal's success is tied with the quality of roleplaying on its servers. There is nothing "sudden" about this.

You see, in your opinion it’s not substantial evidence

No, it's not substantial evidence because it's not substantial evidence. You can allude to some fantastic talent and reputation but, whether or not it exists, you haven't demonstrated it here. You may claim that you have demonstrated it elsewhere, but that doesn't count for much.

It’s known that you enjoy arguing

With people like you? Not really. Even if I did, it would be but a single factor. It wouldn't support the claim that I'm only here for an argument.

And do you expect people to take your reasoning seriously when you are the one to have driven the thread off-topic with accusations and ad hominems?

Yea, I’m real out of control huh?

Repeating somebody's claim with a "huh?" on the end is not a particularly strong argumentative tactic.

[Discharge]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I know what you're saying, but I'm still waiting for you to explain why inexperience should be considered a positive factor.

It’s really like a 50/50 kind of deal. You select the same types of folks who most commonly become staff members and you can have more role-playing disasters. You bring someone with no staff experience and you can also run into a role-playing disaster. I just would like to see new faces in staff because I believe we could benefit by bringing in new ideas from new people. That would seem like a positive factor to me; whether you agree or not with it is up for a debate.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I understand that English is not your first language, but it doesn't grant you license to misinterpret so spectacularly. I'm concerned with Graal, and Graal's success is tied with the quality of roleplaying on its servers. There is nothing "sudden" about this.

What does my English have to do with anything? Anybody can misinterpret what someone else says. As far as I’m concerned, I haven’t “misinterpreted” anything. Perhaps you should elucidate, so we won’t run the risk of a “misinterpretation.”

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

No, it's not substantial evidence because it's not substantial evidence. You can allude to some fantastic talent and reputation but, whether or not it exists, you haven't demonstrated it here. You may claim that you have demonstrated it elsewhere, but that doesn't count for much.

Fine, let me demonstrate just for YOU that I can role-play. Even thou everybody in the role-playing community knows I can role-play except for you because you’re not in the role-playing community.

When you talk to people, you have to talk to them what a person would discuss in the Middle Ages.
If you wish to talk to someone out of the role-playing character (Also know as O.O.C.) you use double brackets ((text))
When you are in character you are I.C.
Role-playing is identical to acting. You pick a person to act/role-play as; whether it’s a Knight, Wizard, King/Queen, Swordsmen, Sinshawakozoko Yoshinoya (What ever Samurai has) or a smelly Orc called Brad. (Just Playing Brad)

I role-play as a Paladin as you can see from my signature. I role-play according to a Paladin code which you can find from the website address on my signature.

Now Script Monkey, do you want me to go role-play on the Dustari Kingdom forum to show “substantial evidence?” I’ll go grab Zurkiba and he can be the big bad wolf trying to eat Gryffon and I have to go save him.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

With people like you? Not really. Even if I did, it would be but a single factor. It wouldn't support the claim that I'm only here for an argument.

Ouch, you really got me where it hurts.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

And do you expect people to take your reasoning seriously when you are the one to have driven the thread off-topic with accusations and ad hominems?

I think the real question is… Should anybody take you seriously when you are not even involved at all with the role-playing community? I disagree; you are the one that has driven the thread off-topic with ad ignorantiams.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Repeating somebody's claim with a "huh?" on the end is not a particularly strong argumentative tactic.

This isn’t A1 to B6, I sunk your battleship. I’m just mocking you because your assumption of me being out-of-control is unfounded.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Discharge

It's really like a 50/50 kind of deal. You select the same types of folks who most commonly become staff members and you can have more role-playing disasters. You bring someone with no staff experience and you can also run into a role-playing disaster

Again and again: It is possible to predict a person's competence. The most competent person should be selected, even if his competence stems directly from his experience. This isn't about sharing, it's about establishing a strong administrative team. Maybe that hasn't been served by the current system, but your suggestions aren't any better.

we could benefit by bringing in new ideas from new people

Are people not already able to submit ideas?

What does my English have to do with anything?

You misinterpreted something. It was written in English. How obvious do I need to make this?

As far as I’m concerned, I haven't "misinterpreted" anything

Maybe you just pretended to. In either case, I explained in my previous post.

-Assorted roleplaying rules-

Congratulations. Now, do you think that understanding every script command would make you a good scripter? You have described the bare basics of roleplaying, and certainly not proven your competence with the art itself.

Now Script Monkey, do you want me to go role-play on the Dustari Kingdom forum to show "substantial evidence?" I’ll go grab Zurkiba and he can be the big bad wolf trying to eat Gryffon and I have to go save him

I think the real question is… Should anybody take you seriously when you are not even involved at all with the role-playing community?

And the real answer is: Yes, of course. Don't be ridiculous. The validity of a person's opinions isn't determined by his investment in the result.

I disagree; you are the one that has driven the thread off-topic with ad ignorantiams

Let me guess: You looked up the fallacy I referenced and went searching for some that you thought you could use against me. Unfortunately you failed, in two ways:

1) I have not, at any point, argued that you lack roleplaying skills. I have noted an absence of evidence, but not interpreted this as evidence of absence.
2) Such comments would, obviously, be on topic. This thread is made to discuss the position of Roleplaying Admin, and evaluating possible candidates suits that purpose.

This isn’t A1 to B6, I sunk your battleship. I'm just mocking you because your assumption of me being out-of-control is unfounded.

And I'm just informing you that you're not very good at mocking. People can reason for themselves on the evidence provided. Personally I'm not taking this thread as good indication of your maturity.

[Zurkiba]

The fact is this,

Discharge has leadership experience, helping to lead Dustari on 2k1 and on 2k2. He also was a main leader in my Forest/Astri kingdom. He's been roleplaying for some four years now (maybe longer... but about four years) and he always takes it seriously.

He is responsible and he'll get the job done, a fine choice as a canidate for a roleplaying admin.

[Discharge]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Why do you make inexperience a factor? If we are able to judge a person's qualifications then we should simply give the job to whoever scores highest.

Well here is the thing, we have been giving the same people staff positions and Graal Kingdoms is not looking to good as far as role-playing goes. We have these GK staff folks making bogus items such as the “Mail of Might.” If we allow someone out of this circle of people then there is a good chance for somebody to improve the role-playing atmosphere. Chris is a staff member already but they still want to nominate him for another staff position. Let him focus on forest, while another person who doesn’t have any other staff obligations to focus on the role-playing. There can possibly be a real good administrator out there that we won’t find out unless we allow some other folks who have never had the opportunity.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

"Cause problems"? I am discussing this topic just as anybody else here. The only major difference between your conduct and mine is that you're throwing insults without provocation, while I'm merely arguing the pertinent on-topic points.

Your not, you are mostly arguing with me about my reasons for becoming a Role-playing Administrator rather then listing other prospective RP Administrators and listing the reasons why they would be a good role-playing administrator. I really don’t know why you are so concerned when you don’t role-playing in Kingdoms. (I don’t care about your reasons for not role-playing)

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Only two people so far have agreed with your self-recommendation. If we're really gonna treat this thing as a popularity contest then those votes might count for something, but not until you poll for opinions on the other candidates.
In an indirect fashion, yes. But such a claim doesn't help your case until you show that the someone is you.

It’s not about popularity contest; I was using those two to show my evidence as a good role-player. Of course you wouldn’t know that I’m a good role-player because you’re not currently in the role-playing community. If you ever did role-play then it must have been something you did every once in awhile. My evidence is not sufficient for you because you don’t role-play in Graal Kingdoms and I really don’t remember seeing you role-play in Graal2001. I don’t need to provide any more extensive evidence for my qualification besides my reputation in the role-playing community. You see, those who are involved in role-playing know me. As a result, my reputation is sufficient enough to provide evidence of a qualified person to be a role-playing administrator.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Then why did I choose your post instead of somebody else's?

I’m not you; I don’t know why you picked me or picked any other person from other threads to argue with.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Hahaha. It's always fun to see hypocritical peacemongers in action. If you wanted the argument to stop, why did you make a post perpetuating it?

Ha-ha, real funny, I’m laughing my ass off too.

It’s just my natural reaction in response to someone who wishes to contend with me. However, I don’t enjoy prolonging an argument because they are very time consuming. I know for you it’s something of a mental sport which you take part in pleasure. However, since you want to drag it on so be it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where is Vermin?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Discharge

we have been giving the same people staff positions and Graal Kingdoms is not looking to good as far as role-playing goes
If we allow someone out of this circle of people then there is a good chance for somebody to improve the role-playing atmosphere

Why, because the majority of people make good roleplaying admin candidates? You're assuming that we have some means for evaluating a person's competence and reliability, and if do then we can already eliminate the bad apples. If we don't, how do we know that the new person won't be a hundred times worse?

There can possibly be a real good administrator out there that we won’t find out unless we allow some other folks who have never had the opportunity

So now you're saying it's impossible to know how good somebody will be until they've been given the "goodies"?

Your not, you are mostly arguing with me about my reasons for becoming a Role-playing Administrator

Of the eight paragraphs in my previous post:

3 discussed the general principles of staff selection without any reference to you
2 challenged your claims of suitability
3 addressed the attacks you made on my character

Two out of eight doesn't seem to qualify as "mostly".

In any case, if your self-nomination was on-topic then so are my comments thereon.

I really don’t know why you are so concerned when you don’t role-playing in Kingdoms

I may not play Kingdoms, but I do want to see Graal prosper. Weak administrators don't much help that goal.

It's not about popularity contest; I was using those two to show my evidence as a good role-player

So the only reason somebody could vote for you is that you're a good roleplayer? And if somebody else got more votes, it would be logical to assume that they're better?

Of course you wouldn't know that I’m a good role-player because you’re not currently in the role-playing community

My personal experience is pretty much irrelevant here. I merely asked if you could present any substantial evidence for your claim, and it seems that you cannot.

I'm not you; I don’t know why you picked me or picked any other person from other threads to argue with

And yet you seem perfectly comfortable in telling me my reasons for posting here. One moment you can read my mind, the next you can't?

It’s just my natural reaction in response to someone who wishes to contend with me

Congratulations on your lack of self-control. It must be a fantastic trait for an administrator to possess.

[GryffonDurime]

Exactly- for proof of what a great RP Admin does, look at Vermain's history on 2k1! A good RP Admin not only creates a necessary power able to check the Kings and Queens, it also introduces someone able to keep interkingdom conflict and politics flowing: IE, Samurai basically said they refused to RP with Zormite and Dustari when they revolted the day Reiko was in charge. A Kingdoms admin can't FORCE them to RP, but he can make the consequences dire if they don't. Destruction of kingdom property, etc

[Nappa]

I wouldn't suggest tupper for rp admin. I have seen him do some bad things on other servers he's worked for.

[Moonite]

Why u Guys want to rp?
someone told it was fun... yea right I dont see any lol in that

Rp admin? is that God or something? sou need to ask him first what kind of role u can play?

[GryffonDurime]

Wow. I love Graal. The only place where anything a person says is quickly turned against them in some of the most convoluted shows of circular logic ever.

On one side, you have someone trying to do something good for their chosen pastime in Graal, and trying to make the point that there's a very paradoxal situation: you aren't considered for an Admin job unless you have experience, but you can't get the experience without being an Admin. Thus, one side or the other has to give in, make a concession- Graals players and staff ALL quit given enough time, and if we don't train the next generation of administrators and staff members, then we'll be left in a slump.

On the other hand, there's a cynical person with great experience trying to disprove this. While the aim may be to further Graal, an Admin without experience is like a painter with a crayon lodged firmly in their brain. But then the problem from this logic arises in the form of "Staff Inbreeding"- if the same people are chosen every time, they eventually become stretched too thin, or quit from the stress, leaving fewer people in the selective pool of higher echelon candidates.

While both Kaimetsu AND Discharge are acting in their interpretation of what is in Graal's best intrest, both have wronged each other, themselves, and Graal; both have done a service ot all of these as well. Can we please stop this senseless post war? Can we please stop giving each post an autopsy? Can we please start working together for the goal that both of you stated you had: bettering Graal.

Or can we sink further into the level of erudite politicians, and bring the bickering that so divides many nations and peoples into this game?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

The only place where anything a person says is quickly turned against them in some of the most convoluted shows of circular logic ever

I hope this is not levelled at me.

On the other hand, there's a cynical person with great experience trying to disprove this

Not at all. I am merely arguing with the claim that we should give inexperienced candidates preferential treatment. If we are able to reasonably assess a person's suitability for a role then this assessment should be the only factor we consider.

But then the problem from this logic arises in the form of "Staff Inbreeding"- if the same people are chosen every time, they eventually become stretched too thin

Obviously these factors are considered in determining suitability.

The source of Graal's current staff problems is simple: Stefan chooses the admins and he doesn't spend very much time getting to know the players. He's forced to pick from a limited pool, despite that several other, better, candidates are available. The solution to this is not to instruct him to pick random people from the community, but rather to show him that the recommendations of sensible, informed Graalians are worthy resources in selecting new staff members.

While both Kaimetsu AND Discharge are acting in their interpretation of what is in Graal's best intrest, both have wronged each other, themselves, and Graal

Where?

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Not at all. I am merely arguing with the claim that we should give inexperienced candidates preferential treatment. If we are able to reasonably assess a person's suitability for a role then this assessment should be the only factor we consider.

We're not arguing about giving new candidates preferential treatment, only equal.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Obviously these factors are considered in determining suitability.

Granted.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

The source of Graal's current staff problems is simple: Stefan chooses the admins and he doesn't spend very much time getting to know the players. He's forced to pick from a limited pool, despite that several other, better, candidates are available. The solution to this is not to instruct him to pick random people from the community, but rather to show him that the recommendations of sensible, informed Graalians are worthy resources in selecting new staff members.

We're not instructing him to pick random people- we're directing him to the people who are most suited, both experienced and not experienced.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Where?

Wronged each other in the senseless tit-for-tat battling, wronged yourselves by setting such a deplorable expample, wronged graal by proving that we can't even get along well enough to support what the 2k2 server was made and intended to be- an RP server

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

We're not arguing about giving new candidates preferential treatment, only equal

You, maybe. But that's not the vibe I'm getting from Discharge.

We're not instructing him to pick random people- we're directing him to the people who are most suited

No, that's what I'm arguing for.

Wronged each other in the senseless tit-for-tat battling

I don't think I ever went to an extent that could be considered wronging somebody.

wronged yourselves by setting such a deplorable expample

I don't think there's anything deplorable about critical discussions.

wronged graal by proving that we can't even get along well enough to support what the 2k2 server was made and intended to be- an RP server

"we"? Discharge and I are just two people, our actions shouldn't be taken to reflect the entire community.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

"we"? Discharge and I are just two people, our actions shouldn't be taken to reflect the entire community.

The actions of two of the community's respected members, one the former Forum Supermod, the other one of the best Role Players in the community.

You're right- you certainly aren't role models or influences on the community AT ALL

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

Wow. I love Graal. The only place where anything a person says is quickly turned against them in some of the most convoluted shows of circular logic ever.

Well, the part is that you are ignoring in your analysis is Discharge's claim that someone should become staff purely because he has not been staff before and that someone with more experience needs to be turned down because of that experience; and that this is ~all what Kai is challenging.

Or can we sink further into the level of erudite politicians, and bring the bickering that so divides many nations and peoples into this game?

"Or can we further use this discussion forum for discussions?"


Edit: I lose for lack of speed. wtf.
Editedit: And for lack of proper quoting.

[Crono]

Kai should do more productive things with his argument skills, like argue his way to shut era and un down, make g2k2 rp, and make me owner of graal 8]

[GryffonDurime]

I beleive I just did but allow me to consolidate

"we"? Discharge and I are just two people, our actions shouldn't be taken to reflect the entire community.

Given that you two are role models for one sect of graal or another, what you do CAN influence and does reflect the community as a whole.

[FenixTheBanished]

Is all this arguing necessary? Yeesh. You just made me read 3 pages of **** for no reason. You've made to dent in the flow of the arguement, and he's just trying to stop it by shorting the quotes. Just shut up and stroke your ego.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by FenixTheBanished

he's just trying to stop it by shorting the quotes

What are you talking about?

[FenixTheBanished]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

What are you talking about?

He's breaking this annoying 20 quotes per post war, by either avoiding it in general, or simply turning his attention to something else. It obviously worked, you've all shut up.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by FenixTheBanished

He's breaking this annoying 20 quotes per post war

Who, Gryffon? He's arguing just as anybody else in the thread.

And here's the part you people don't seem to understand: So are you, now.

[Zurkiba]

But the fact is this...

There is one page with information about what the thread is supposed to be about. Establishing a head over the kings to keep them in check. Then it's followed by four pages of bickering over who it should be. One step at a time

Lets get the position made first, THEN pick the person to fill the shoes.