A Time for Change

[darkemporor]

After nearly a year of leading Zormite I have decided to pass the role of Dictatress to my eldest RP daughter, Akira Sagesun Archigos. This change will take place sometime this week. I will be supporting in the background, will remain somewhat active in the game, as well as continue to moderate Zormite forum during this transition.

I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the growth and development of Zormite during my rule. I sincerely hope our kingdom will continue to benefit from your leadership. Please support your new Dictatress with all your creativity and earnest.

To my Fedakahn, the idea man, my mentat, thank you for being the one and only who never failed my confidence, not once. Please stay and nurture and create.

To Zoe and Padren and Ana, comrades for life, my very strength, thank you for the support I counted on and still do. Your friendship has uplifted me and continues to do so.

To my Zanna, thanks for your sweetness, creativity, calm cheerfulness and support. Take your sister's hand in leadership and remember,... your role shall enlarge in months to come.

To my Akira, you have all my confidence and love both RP and real. I shall stand behind you, 'mother Wren's' hand at your back. Step forward, strong and sure in confidence. Enjoy the light that you have become to us all.

Wren Sagesun Archigos
Dictatress of the Zormite Republic

[Crono]

Wait so you basically have female dictators?

[LordZen]

Wow.

Alright Wren, its been a good run I suppose. Has it really been near a year already though?

Well, if I can help somehow with the transition, let me know. I'd like to be involved to some degree so I know what traditions and beliefs are being passed down to the next administration.

Also, agh, right around the same time Padren and Zoe stepped down. All at once, my favorite 3 GK leaders (besides myself ) have passed on their rule to a new generation. Curses

[sage_scooby]

I never got to know you well wren but it is still sad to see you step down, yet joyous to see a new ruler get to try her hand. I do and will continue to enjoy my time as a zormite and will support her to the fullest.

Congrats to Akira.

[GoZelda]

I guess I can start posting again now, without a remark being made for every post however good the intentions of it may have been.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Omy ...

[Nappa]

I thought in a republic the leader was elected ? Doesn't that go against everything you guys have been preeching ? :: Waits until this post is deleted ::

[Crono]

Akira = Aki?

[Nappa]

Yes. I already know a few people quitting because of this, ahahaa (Quitting zormite, that is)

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Nappa

Yes. I already know a few people quitting because of this, ahahaa (Quitting zormite, that is)

I was like WTF @ AKI

[Nappa]

Still Waiting For Explanation Of How A Republic Has A Leader Who Was Passed Down The Crown From Her Mother


Edit: Damn you non-caps thingamabobber

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

I thought in a republic the leader was elected ? Doesn't that go against everything you guys have been preeching ? :: Waits until this post is deleted ::

I am sure it was addressed in more than one thread you were involved in nappa, a republic is a form of government that can have a dictator, just like Rome did under Caesar and others.

Please read the Zormite Constitution thread and familiarize yourself with Zormite 2k2. It is all answered in there.

Originally Posted by Nappa

Still Waiting For Explanation Of How A Republic Has A Leader Who Was Passed Down The Crown From Her Mother


Edit: Damn you non-caps thingamabobber

Simple:
A dictator can give power to the person of their choice (having total powerful and all).
In this case, that choice is her daughter.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

I am sure it was addressed in more than one thread you were involved in nappa, a republic is a form of government that can have a dictator, just like Rome did under Caesar and others.

Please read the Zormite Constitution thread and familiarize yourself with Zormite 2k2. It is all answered in there.

Simple:
A dictator can give power to the person of their choice (having total powerful and all).
In this case, that choice is her daughter.

No, idiot. I understand how the first dictator was dictator - They were elected. However the original dictator is not the entire populous thus does not have the right to place another person to replace themself. The entire Zormite should vote on the new leader.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Nappa

No, idiot. I understand how the first dictator was dictator - They were elected. However the original dictator is not the entire populous thus does not have the right to place another person to replace themself. The entire Zormite should vote on the new leader.

At the point being, Dustari is more of a Republic then Zormite because there was some sort of voting involved when the new king/queen was chosen. Pretty pathetic.

[foxyrain]

Originally Posted by Nappa

No, idiot. I understand how the first dictator was dictator - They were elected. However the original dictator is not the entire populous thus does not have the right to place another person to replace themself. The entire Zormite should vote on the new leader.

Zormite is not the real life world incase you haven't checked recently. However, it's constitution dictates what shall be.

One thing not to worry over, Nappa - You would never be elected. Only someone 'fool' enough to be your friend would make you a leader.

Zoe Sagesun

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by foxyrain

Zormite is not the real life world incase you haven't checked recently. However, it's constitution dictates what shall be.

One thing not to worry over, Nappa - You would never be elected. Only someone 'fool' enough to be your friend would make you a leader.

Zoe Sagesun

I don't remember him suggesting himself for the Dictatorship...that's a pretty big leap to make.

[Vlad]

Congradulations to Aki.

[Mousefuzz]

Originally Posted by darkemporor

After nearly a year of leading Zormite I have decided to pass the role of Dictatress to my eldest RP daughter, Akira Sagesun Archigos. This change will take place sometime this week. I will be supporting in the background, will remain somewhat active in the game, as well as continue to moderate Zormite forum during this transition.

I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the growth and development of Zormite during my rule. I sincerely hope our kingdom will continue to benefit from your leadership. Please support your new Dictatress with all your creativity and earnest.

To my Fedakahn, the idea man, my mentat, thank you for being the one and only who never failed my confidence, not once. Please stay and nurture and create.

To Zoe and Padren, comrades for life, my very strength, thank you for the support I counted on and still do. Your friendship has uplifted me and continues to do so.

To my Zanna, thanks for your sweetness, creativity, calm cheerfulness and support. Take your sister's hand in leadership and remember,... your role shall enlarge in months to come.

To my Akira, you have all my confidence and love both RP and real. I shall stand behind you, 'mother Wren's' hand at your back. Step forward, strong and sure in confidence. Enjoy the light that you have become to us all.

Wren Sagesun Archigos
Dictatress of the Zormite Republic

Congratulations Aki <3 , Wren <3

[GryffonDurime]

Hmm, at this rate the only Kingdom NOT ruled by a woman is Forest, right?

Anyway, congratulations Akira, and good luck Wren.

[meishanli]

Thanks for all your positive and supportive comments
I will try my best, to run this kingdom well, and make it more intresting. (:

Thank you Wren.....I won't let you down.

Akira Sagesun Archigos

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

No, idiot. I understand how the first dictator was dictator - They were elected. However the original dictator is not the entire populous thus does not have the right to place another person to replace themself. The entire Zormite should vote on the new leader.

I don't know what you prefer, an excuse to be rude or wasting people's time.

I told you to read the constitution.
http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=44486

Article III. Terms of Office
Members of the ruling party maintain their positions in public office until the party loses power to another party recognized by the government. This rule is constant, except for in special circumstances.

1. Terminating Senior Officials
This member of the ruling political party is entrusted as knowing what actions are most in accordance with the ideology of the party. As such, he may not be voted out of power by other party members, and his actions are presumed to always be within party guidelines. If he begins to waiver, than he has deemed it nessisary for an alteration in the party's agenda. If the senior offical elects to resign, the office becomes hereditary, meaning only an offspring or other family member of the senior official (who is justly familiar with the goals of the party) may take office. The selection of a new senior official will additionaly take place whenever there is a change in power from one party to another, at which point the office is no longer hereditary.

Arguing once in a while is one thing but you cannot argue in every single thread and stray from the topic with every single post without it being considered disruptive. You have made your feelings about the nature of Zormite GK very very clear, in many previous threads. There is no reason for you to continue on with this hostility as the issues have been settled.
You don't like Zormite in GK. I don't like orcs in GK (bomies were invented for a reason) but I don't complain about it.

Stop spamming please.

Originally Posted by GoZelda

At the point being, Dustari is more of a Republic then Zormite because there was some sort of voting involved when the new king/queen was chosen. Pretty pathetic.

a) Dustari did not vote, during times when leadership has been called into question, we have held votes to clarify what people want, out of character. Each kingdom is a group of people who RP, not a 'real republic' or a 'real monarchy' - which I am thankful for because I pay enough taxes irl.

b) The Zormite Republic has a Constitition that, as I stated above, is rather clear on how the resignation of an official is to be handled.

If the people [i]in[/b] Zormite are happy with the Republic (talking to both of you, GZ and Nappa) then that should be well enough.

GoZelda, back when you were in Zormite and Zen as Dictator, you were rather happy with the Constitition, which has remained unchanged since that time. Your complaining now really is just a way to attack Wren and her legacy on a personal level, and has nothing to do with the Republic.

[GryffonDurime]

Dustari had a senate, at one time.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

Dustari had a senate, at one time.

Good times - I was a Senator then.
I was trying to lobby for lower fares for Dustarians using the ferry lol.
The Senate was dissolved at the end of Larrien's reign.

Wren, I am sorry to see you are retiring...I think you made a great choice in Aki she will do well.

The tradition of Zormite and Dustari's longstanding friendship was pervasive when I was first a soldier my very first day, it has persisted through our times, and will continue to be one of the great legacies that will carry on and be a source of pride for the future peoples of our two nations.


May the Republic always prosper, and her walls never fall.

[Nappa]

If in the constitution of zormite it's not a republic due to hereditary changes in leadership, take the stupid Republic out of the name. I don't care if "Graal isn't real life". You can't change what a republic is.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by Nappa

You all are freaking retarded, aren't you ?

If in the constitution of zormite it's not a republic due to hereditary changes in leadership, take the stupid Republic out of the name. I don't care if "Graal isn't real life". You can't change what a republic is.

I've already stated my feelings on the matter of the name.

'Republic' is by definition not fitting.

You know, definition 1a of 'republic' from dictionary.com...

A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Lance

I've already stated my feelings on the matter of the name.

'Republic' is by definition not fitting.

You know, definition 1a of 'republic' from dictionary.com...

Synonym of Monarch; Dictator. I already explained that on this forum but the post was deleted.

Originally Posted by Padren

a) Dustari did not vote, during times when leadership has been called into question, we have held votes to clarify what people want, out of character.

'Some sort of voting' != voting.

Originally Posted by Padren

Each kingdom is a group of people who RP

'But that's the diff' - Quote from Ana on-tag. RP, you said? I guess not. The leader apparently can't follow the kingdom's own rules. And now you'll come up with some crap that she's the leader and stands above them

Originally Posted by Padren

If the people in Zormite are happy with the Republic (talking to both of you, GZ and Nappa) then that should be well enough.

Which some are not.

Originally Posted by Padren

GoZelda, back when you were in Zormite and Zen as Dictator, you were rather happy with the Constitition,

No I was not, but I trusted Zen.

Originally Posted by Padren

Your complaining now really is just a way to attack Wren and her legacy on a personal level, and has nothing to do with the Republic.

Hell no it's not, but everytime I try to explain that my posts vanish in thin air.

[falco10291029]

Wow *ignores dumb sidetopic that brewed* Wren I didnt know you too long but I wil still miss you nonetheless and it will take me a little while to get used to this fact :-/ Sorry for the constant bugging and such i tended to do and thanks for working me through rping and getting me through my times as an immigrant.

Foitisian Cris Felko

[LordZen]

Did you know that in the United States, if no presidential candidate receives the required minimum of electoral votes, than the Senate gets to choose the winner of the presidential election?

Did you also know that whenever the Senate is split 50/50, the sitting Vice President gets to cast the tie breaking vote? So in effect, if the Vice President is running for President for the comming 4 years, he could vote himself into power?

No system is perfect.

Also if both the President and Vice President were unable to lead the country, be it death, resignation, or some sort of illness, isnt the 3rd in line the Speaker of the House? I'm probably wrong, but its either that or a Cabinet member.

The point is, none of those people under the President and Vice President were voted into that presidential position of leadership or ever expected to have to lead the country at some point...but there always has to be some sort of line of secession to insure that some one is designated to run the country if something ubruptly causes the nation's highest office to become vaccant between election periods.

A monarch is a sovereign who inherits their power by birth rite, and being of royal blood.

In the Zormite Republic's case, the senior official of the ruling party becomes the "Dictator" of the nation, governing through party ideology. It can be justly construed that the constitution preferably favors a direct offspring of the former leader to take their place because that individual would be least likely to have ulterior conflicting motives against the party or their own parent. This is also why it is left partially open ended, to include less direct family members if need be to avoid obvious issues. Also, the family member who inherits the office could just as quickly be replaced if the ruling party loses its supremacy.

Every nation who operates as a republic has their own flavor of it. No two governments are perfectly identical. This is simply how the early leaders of the Zormite Republic chose to handle the country's line of secession between election periods.

Additionally, it would probably make more sense to those who are unaware if they knew the story behind the beginnings of the Republic. Basically, the country fell into a sort of anarchy, from general fear of instability and revolution. There was so much panic caused by the fear of revolution, that the Emperor basically forfeited his right to rule the land and allowed for a new government to be structured from the ground up. A bloodless Revolution, I suppose.

But at any rate, the only visionaries that had their stuff together early on was a group of Loyalists, who supported the former royal bloodline. Infact, they named their political ideology after the royal family's last name: Archigos; and after becoming more ogranized formed the National Archist Party of Zormite, or NAPZ. And obviously, they had a hand in drafting the new constitution. Its that party's choice to want a member of the former royal family to be the leader of their party. So as long as NAPZ was able to remain the ruling party, through consent of the people, they in effect accomplish a secondary goal which was to preserve the monarchy in some form, but in a modernized, more stable architecture of government.

So NAPZ, a party supporting the former royal family, had a hand in influencing how the line of seccesion was to be played out according to the consitution, but understand that the same constitutional principle would apply even if another party managed to gain control of the country (with a senior official having no royal relations).

The government is wholy structured properly as a Republic, regardless of whether or not Zormite's is a common flavor in the real world.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Omy, its just in one ear and out the other with you people.

[darkemporor]

I think Zen has more than adequately explained here (and justified) why the political structure of Zormite can and is legitimately called a Republic. This time, last time and the various times before that. Thank you once again, Zen. We can now put that topic to rest in this, as in many other (hijacked) threads. At least SOME of us understand it. Others seem to have a need to have it explained again from time to time and Zen always does an excellent job of it.

Anyway, this thread was not intended to be a discussion about the political structure of Zormite, or whether kingdom leaders RP to your standards or not. This thread topic has an original theme. It's about Zormite, and an announcement about a change in personnel. Nappa, your habit of posting off topic, at best, is annoying. Many have expressed this. Gozelda, I plan to continue my moderation of the Zormite forum. You are duly informed.

Certain profoundly uncreative persons will always attempt to direct discussion by contributing remote (repetitive) tangents laced with as many personal insults as possible. Yet others are limited to whining about the behaviors and non-RP-ish statements of kingdom leaders they don't like. Its pathetic, but at least the rest of us have the satisfaction of predictability in both cases.

(Have you ever seen that Lamisil dermatophite commerical? Anyway...... yeah )

[Lance]

Originally Posted by LordZen

A monarch is a sovereign who inherits their power by birth rite, and being of royal blood.

Which as padren so adequately pointed out is what is occurring here.

In the Zormite Republic's case, the senior official of the ruling party becomes the "Dictator" of the nation, governing through party ideology. It can be justly construed that the constitution preferably favors a direct offspring of the former leader to take their place because that individual would be least likely to have ulterior conflicting motives against the party or their own parent. This is also why it is left partially open ended, to include less direct family members if need be to avoid obvious issues.

Except you just described a monarchy.

Also, the family member who inherits the office could just as quickly be replaced if the ruling party loses its supremacy.

But this never happens, right? That Dictator controls who joins the kingdom - they can never really be overpowered unless they let a bunch of people who are their rivals/enemies into the kingdom. I somehow doubt that Wren, for example, would have allowed Nappa and all of his followers in the kingdom.

Every nation who operates as a republic has their own flavor of it. No two governments are perfectly identical. This is simply how the early leaders of the Zormite Republic chose to handle the country's line of secession between election periods.

But when you convert to a monarchy, you cannot and should not call this a Republic. It wasn't one to begin with, really, and this has not changed. Zen picked Wren. Wren picked Aki. Continue cycle.

I'll further note that the phrase 'early leaders of the Zormite Republic' is humorous.

Additionally, it would probably make more sense to those who are unaware if they knew the story behind the beginnings of the Republic. Basically, the country fell into a sort of anarchy, from general fear of instability and revolution. There was so much panic caused by the fear of revolution, that the Emperor basically forfeited his right to rule the land and allowed for a new government to be structured from the ground up. A bloodless Revolution, I suppose.

A new government where the same Emperor who forfeited his right to rule the land suddenly became the Dictator...? Man, your argument is weaker when you're giving explanations now than it was when it just occurred without explanation.

But at any rate, the only visionaries that had their stuff together early on was a group of Loyalists, who supported the former royal bloodline. Infact, they named their political ideology after the royal family's last name: Archigos; and after becoming more ogranized formed the National Archist Party of Zormite, or NAPZ. And obviously, they had a hand in drafting the new constitution. Its that party's choice to want a member of the former royal family to be the leader of their party. So as long as NAPZ was able to remain the ruling party, through consent of the people, they in effect accomplish a secondary goal which was to preserve the monarchy in some form, but in a modernized, more stable architecture of government.

okay so you wrote a nice little paragraph about why you got to keep power wow that's so cool

it's just a story though, please refer to next point

So NAPZ, a party supporting the former royal family, had a hand in influencing how the line of seccesion was to be played out according to the consitution, but understand that the same constitutional principle would apply even if another party managed to gain control of the country (with a senior official having no royal relations).

Except that the conversion to the Zormite Republic with you as dictator happened instantaneously. I was online at the time.

The government is wholy structured properly as a Republic, regardless of whether or not Zormite's is a common flavor in the real world.

Unfortunately, calling a sheep's tail a leg does not make it one. Likewise, calling Zormite a Republic when it not only was never one but has degenerated to even less of one does not make it so.

Originally Posted by darkemporor

I think Zen has more than adequately explained here (and justified) why the political structure of Zormite can and is legitimately called a Republic.

He's actually managed to do the exact opposite.

This time, last time and the various times before that. Thank you once again, Zen. We can now put that topic to rest in this, as in many other (hijacked) threads.

Legitimate discussion != hijacked thread.

At least SOME of us understand it. Others seem to have a need to have it explained again from time to time and Zen always does an excellent job of it.

An excellent job of it...? He just demonstrated that he has no idea what he's talking about.

Anyway, this thread was not intended to be a discussion about the political structure of Zormite, or whether kingdom leaders RP to your standards or not. This thread topic has an original theme. It's about Zormite, and an announcement about a change in personnel. Nappa, your habit of posting off topic, at best, is annoying. Many have expressed this. Gozelda, I plan to continue my moderation of the Zormite forum. You are duly informed.

Off-topic posting is not against the rules, and neither should it be. We've been over this before. Legitimate topics spring up from other topics. The best suggestion I can make about them is that if it really bothers you, you should split the thread.

[LordZen]

Originally Posted by Lance

But when you convert to a monarchy, you cannot and should not call this a Republic. It wasn't one to begin with, really, and this has not changed. Zen picked Wren. Wren picked Aki. Continue cycle.

It did not convert to a monarchy. It converted to a Republic, from being a monarchy. My picking of Wren, and Wren picking of Aki was justified by the constitution. The office becomes heriditary only when the senior official of the ruling party steps down or dies (whatever) while that party is in power, because that creates a vaccant office in government which cannot be filled by the election of a new party (because the same party is in power). Wren was part of my family, and when I could no longer rule, she was my most direct relative, and was educated in my ideology. That doesnt mean its not a republic, because that only deals with leadership change within the same legitimately elected regeime, between election cycles.

Originally Posted by Lance

I'll further note that the phrase 'early leaders of the Zormite Republic' is humorous.

Wow, man, I was describing to you the RP story behind the situation. When talking about how an entire kingdom's revolution, do think that story would only consist of the handful of players who were actually in the kingdom? No, obviously you would presume a nation to consist of millions apon millions of people. That is very shallow to presume I meant that strictly literally, and speaks well of you and your own ability to participate in such fictional invented roleplaying situations, "King *Tseng".

Originally Posted by Lance

A new government where the same Emperor who forfeited his right to rule the land suddenly became the Dictator...? Man, your argument is weaker when you're giving explanations now than it was when it just occurred without explanation.

He forfeited his divine sovereignty to appease the fears of the populace, and managed to regain the right to rule through popular consent. Dictator is just the title given to the supreme office of the land. It could just as well have been Prime Minister, or President, or First Regent, or whatever. Then your statement would not seem so far fetched and more plausible. Your using the term Dictator out of context, because as it applies to the Zormite Republic's government...Dictator is a legitimately attainable position through consent of the majority.

Originally Posted by Lance

okay so you wrote a nice little paragraph about why you got to keep power wow that's so cool

it's just a story though

If you are so against the use of stories to describe situations in a roleplaying enviornment, then why did you even trouble yourself with getting involved with an RP Kingdom, or anything of the like?

Originally Posted by LordZen

Except that the conversion to the Zormite Republic with you as dictator happened instantaneously. I was online at the time.

Yea, thats about how long it takes to change the kingdom name and a title of a rank in the KGUI in-game.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Come on lance, horses come from eggs around here, lighten up.

When you say 'another inaccurate name' you are referring to a name (the Republic of Iraq) that is on all the maps, recorded in the Library of Congress, cited in countless debates and speeches in the US Senate and Congress, and has been acknowledged by the UN, the EU, and just about every government body around the world. You have a lot of people to reach, they need you Lance.

Iraq has new leadership now. Irrelevant, anyway.

If you want to debate the 'accuracy' of the name please give it a rest - no one cares enough for a deep philosophical exchange.

Apparently enough care to wish to discuss the topic. Apparently you care enough to reply. Apparently a few people are more than none.

The only question on the table for debate is 'does zormite have the right to call itself a republic without being hounded by strangely obsessed people that want to debate every political government structure from the Roman era onward as it relates to the historical and idealogical context of the term republic and its use by zormite?'

Wow, so you're telling me what I'm trying to debate? I am in awe of your omniscience. I'm saying the name is inaccurate. That is what I am debating. Stop trying to lead the issue elsewhere.

Zormite is a Republic, even though they don't vote.

Right-o. Let's have a republic, but instead of the people electing their representatives, we'll do it for them! It's brilliant!

No!

Dustari is a Monarchy, even though at least half of all the royal family members throughout its history have been adopted while still being related to twelve different families.

CP are pirates even though they have a castle and even have a special medival shield event item in their honor.

KJ is an ancient japanese society even though they use warhammers and mithril armor etc.

Forest is an elven kingdom even though....I don't even know what's happening with Forest.

Horses and monkeys come from eggs. People die of farts. You play a flute to make plants grow. Barbarians master wizardry in 30 seconds with 1.4k worth of scrolls.

That's nice, but I'm talking about Zormite, a kingdom which thinks itself awesome enough to defy the meaning of its own name.

Zormite has some decent distinction and has developed its own style, and if you think it is not perfect enough for your taste - look around and promptly get over it.

Or, alternatively, I could note where a name is inaccurately applied. I'm not doing this for my own benefit - Zormite is what looks foolish for the inaccuracy, not me.

Personally I am not convinced that a republic can only be called such one if voting is involved....but I actually don't care and it does not matter. All that matters is, is that Zormite is a decent enough Republic that if they want to be one, then so be it. They may, and may do so in peace without this being rehashed constantly.

Okay, then I hereby proclaim myself Lance the wind god. I am decent enough and I want to be one, then so be it. Now, you will have to respect my decision and only refer to me as Lance the wind god. Let me be the wind god in peace!

This topic is dead, the only reason I am even posting is to try to convey, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to a handful of oddly obsessed people, that this old, retired, dead, trivial debate has been exhausted to the point of such lifelessness that it really doesn't ever need to be raised again.

You are not the sole arbiter of whether or not topics are alive or dead.

Folks want to debate about a topic -> it is still very much alive. That's just common sense, man.

Here lies 'The Republic Debate', raised from the dead for the umpteenth time but finally buried one last time here, fini, done, over.

Except it's not buried unless it's resolved. That's another one of those by-definition things, but the trend seems to be to ignore them.

Originally Posted by darkemporor

That topic is dead... and apparently so's this one.

*thread closed* or not. Why are my moderator rights removed?

Your modpowers rested on your leadership position in Zormite. That is gone, thus you no longer moderate this forum.

Originally Posted by falco10291029

Also i just came up with a new idea that SHOULD shut most people up.

We've got...hiiigh hopes, we've got....hiiigh hopes...

"Zormite Republic" can be just a name, i could call myself King Falco and it doesnt mean i rule over anyone

Surely you would not think it reasonable to expect everyone else to believe you are actually a king, though...?

EDIT: Oops sop sorry wren i think i must have tried posting after u but i was typing and didnt refresh and i bet that reopened the thread if u closed....oops

Uh, if a thread is closed, it doesn't allow any more replies, man.

Originally Posted by LordZen

It did not convert to a monarchy. It converted to a Republic, from being a monarchy. My picking of Wren, and Wren picking of Aki was justified by the constitution. The office becomes heriditary only when the senior official of the ruling party steps down or dies (whatever) while that party is in power, because that creates a vaccant office in government which cannot be filled by the election of a new party (because the same party is in power). Wren was part of my family, and when I could no longer rule, she was my most direct relative, and was educated in my ideology. That doesnt mean its not a republic, because that only deals with leadership change within the same legitimately elected regeime, between election cycles.

Would you please list the various parties that currently exist in Zormite, how many members belong to each, etc?

Wow, man, I was describing to you the RP story behind the situation. When talking about how an entire kingdom's revolution, do think that story would only consist of the handful of players who were actually in the kingdom? No, obviously you would presume a nation to consist of millions apon millions of people.

How much will you type before you try to actually understand what I'm saying and why I might be saying it? It's funny because you are the 'early leaders of the Zormite Republic', and I found it humorous that you were trying to explain something about the way you decided to make things by referring to yourself in the third person. Time doesn't quite flow like that, you know.

That is very shallow to presume I meant that strictly literally, and speaks well of you and your own ability to participate in such fictional invented roleplaying situations, "King *Tseng".

That'd be nice, except for the problematic fact that I never went on a kingdom tag with my account as my nick...? Don't potshot my roleplaying skills. If anything, they're superior to yours. Still isn't the issue, though.

He forfeited his divine sovereignty to appease the fears of the populace, and managed to regain the right to rule through popular consent. Dictator is just the title given to the supreme office of the land. It could just as well have been Prime Minister, or President, or First Regent, or whatever. Then your statement would not seem so far fetched and more plausible. Your using the term Dictator out of context, because as it applies to the Zormite Republic's government...Dictator is a legitimately attainable position through consent of the majority.

Except that the way you explained the handing-down of the leadership didn't even bother mentioning the consent of the majority...?

If you are so against the use of stories to describe situations in a roleplaying enviornment, then why did you even trouble yourself with getting involved with an RP Kingdom, or anything of the like?

Don't put words in my mouth?

Yea, thats about how long it takes to change the kingdom name and a title of a rank in the KGUI in-game.

Mmmhm.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Lance

Your modpowers rested on your leadership position in Zormite. That is gone, thus you no longer moderate this forum.

You don't have a clue regarding what you are talking about - if her mod rights were removed due to Aki's stepping in, then Aki would have been added - duh.




Regarding the rest of your rant Lance, the majority of the people here are not interested in debating the accuracy of the term 'Zormite Republic' as it pertains to historical Republics from the Roman age on. That majority includes the leaders of Zormite and a great deal of the members of Zormite.

The problem I am addressing is that while a thread going off topic once in a while is fine... the systematic use of old, worn out debates to derail every new thread's primary topic is not fine.

Many people have cited reasons why even by irl standards, Zormite would be allowed to call itself a republic. I mean hell - for crying out loud the "People's Republic of China" contains what, half of the world's population?

Don't give me that 'I am not talking about them I am talking about Zormite' crap either - if you don't want to 'talk about' anything that points out you are flat out wrong then you really are the Wind God, at least of Hot Air.


I know - lets debate Global Warming, 98% of the world's scientists can demonstrate the impact of pollution and you can take the other side and repeat the phrase 'is not' and thus ensure that a lively and on going debate till the end of time. Then, anytime anyone posts a new thread on any other topic, you can bring up global warming and keep repeating the 'is not' mantra and derail another 50 threads.

You usually have good forum manners lance, your petty grudges against Zen are kinda getting the better of you at this point though.


Do I have to say it again? People's Republic of China

And if you think graal, with its Pirate Castles, Horse Eggs and Flaming Farts somehow needs to be held to a higher standard than the freak'n United Nations then you really really really need relax and expand your range of hobbies.

I say this debate is dead for the following reasons:

1) instead of debating valid counter arguments you content "I am not talking about..." - all logic within this debate has become stale and 95% of the points are being ignored in favor of little quips over the most trivial elements.

2) The debate you are contenting, that the name 'Zormite Republic' should not be used, is irrelevant, as even if by some manipulation of the fabric of space and time you were correct, it does not matter as Zormite is not a Republic, but a group in a game that calls itself a republic, that has been allowed to call itself a republic, and unless Stefan chooses to reverse the allowance of this name that has persisted since about '04-25-2003' no amount of debating, complaining, whining, or crying is going to change it.

The important part is that the people currently IN Zormite can speak for themselves if they don't like it.

3) This is not the result of a happy 'lets have a debate' topic that just merrily popped up, essentially its more along the lines of 'we want you zormites to be forced to use fish head gfx' line, of attacking Zormite's right to use the name it has rightfully chosen to use. You do not have people happily engaging in an intelectual discourse with you but a '**** we can do this and you are wrong to say otherwise' defense of the GK nation they have chosen to build.

You will always find people will debate (ie disagree) with you if you use any variation of the 'you suck' argument as a basis for a 'debate'.

Since the start of this argument, you have been aptly flogged on every front of logic, and the only reason it is still going on is you find new ways of saying 'but what you are missing is my point that you still suck' without any basis.

You think you are 'selflessly saving the Zormite's from embarrassing themselves'? Excuse me? You need to look up the definitations of 'Altuism' and 'Egomaniac with a god complex' and rethink your stance here. If you want to save someone from embarassment, start with yourself.

Did I mention the People's Republic of China?

[Lance]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

You don't have a clue regarding what you are talking about - if her mod rights were removed due to Aki's stepping in, then Aki would have been added - duh.

Not really. The removal of ex-kingdom leaders does not necessitate the addition of the new ones.

Regarding the rest of your rant Lance, the majority of the people here are not interested in debating the accuracy of the term 'Zormite Republic' as it pertains to historical Republics from the Roman age on. That majority includes the leaders of Zormite and a great deal of the members of Zormite.

You're not the majority. Don't presume to speak for them. Speak for yourself. Besides, numbers don't particularly matter.

The problem I am addressing is that while a thread going off topic once in a while is fine... the systematic use of old, worn out debates to derail every new thread's primary topic is not fine.

Except every new thread hasn't been derailed. Some have, perhaps, but some is never equivalent to all.

Many people have cited reasons why even by irl standards, Zormite would be allowed to call itself a republic. I mean hell - for crying out loud the "People's Republic of China" contains what, half of the world's population?

Uh, no. No valid reasons have been presented. Again I'll note that numbers are irrelevant. That's a pretty basic one right there.

Don't give me that 'I am not talking about them I am talking about Zormite' crap either - if you don't want to 'talk about' anything that points out you are flat out wrong then you really are the Wind God, at least of Hot Air.

But it doesn't point out that I'm "flat out wrong." It points out that you can cite examples of other countries whose names may or may not be appropriate. That is wholly irrelevant to the current discussion.

I know - lets debate Global Warming, 98% of the world's scientists can demonstrate the impact of pollution and you can take the other side and repeat the phrase 'is not' and thus ensure that a lively and on going debate till the end of time. Then, anytime anyone posts a new thread on any other topic, you can bring up global warming and keep repeating the 'is not' mantra and derail another 50 threads.

We're not talking about global warming.

You usually have good forum manners lance, your petty grudges against Zen are kinda getting the better of you at this point though.

I have no grudge against Zen. He's a nice guy.

Do I have to say it again? People's Republic of China

Do I have to spell it out? I-r-r-e-l-e-v-a-n-t.

And if you think graal, with its Pirate Castles, Horse Eggs and Flaming Farts somehow needs to be held to a higher standard than the freak'n United Nations then you really really really need relax and expand your range of hobbies.

So, if other things in graal are inaccurate, this can be inaccurate too? Doesn't matter - I'm not debating whether or not it should be changed. My original statement (and continued discussion since then) is that the name is inaccurate.

I say this debate is dead for the following reasons:

Look: This debate is not dead as long as it is being debated. This is a very simple concept, and I'm not sure why you can't get it.

1) instead of debating valid counter arguments you content "I am not talking about..." - all logic within this debate has become stale and 95% of the points are being ignored in favor of little quips over the most trivial elements.

Perhaps that's because 95% of the points used against me are invalid...? The only things I've ignored are:

a) Irrelevant
b) Stories in which time flows in a circle

2) The debate you are contenting, that the name 'Zormite Republic' should not be used, is irrelevant, as even if by some manipulation of the fabric of space and time you were correct, it does not matter as Zormite is not a Republic, but a group in a game that calls itself a republic, that has been allowed to call itself a republic, and unless Stefan chooses to reverse the allowance of this name that has persisted since about '04-25-2003' no amount of debating, complaining, whining, or crying is going to change it.

I said the name is inappropriate. Once it is recognized that the name is inappropriate, Zormite can decide whether or not it wishes to keep it, though it'd be kinda foolish to.

The important part is that the people currently IN Zormite can speak for themselves if they don't like it.

Uh, most people won't even notice it as they simply do not spend much time considering the kingdom's name.

3) This is not the result of a happy 'lets have a debate' topic that just merrily popped up, essentially its more along the lines of 'we want you zormites to be forced to use fish head gfx' line, of attacking Zormite's right to use the name it has rightfully chosen to use.

I'm really starting to get annoyed by this. Please don't tell me what I'm trying to debate. Others may be trying to debate that, but I am not.

You do not have people happily engaging in an intelectual discourse with you but a '**** we can do this and you are wrong to say otherwise' defense of the GK nation they have chosen to build.

Why paraphrase the defense of the kingdoms as '**** we can do this and you are wrong to say otherwise'...?

Aside from that, I am happily willing to engage in intellectual discourse with anyone who wishes to do so.

You will always find people will debate (ie disagree) with you if you use any variation of the 'you suck' argument as a basis for a 'debate'.

Except that pointing out flaws in people's logic is not equivalent to saying 'you suck', though I suppose saying they suck at making cohesive arguments wouldn't be too big of a stretch.

Since the start of this argument, you have been aptly flogged on every front of logic, and the only reason it is still going on is you find new ways of saying 'but what you are missing is my point that you still suck' without any basis.

By my count, there have been very few valid arguments used against me. I could be wrong, though, so feel free to show me some examples, please, of this awesome flogging by logic.

You think you are 'selflessly saving the Zormite's from embarrassing themselves'? Excuse me? You need to look up the definitations of 'Altuism' and 'Egomaniac with a god complex' and rethink your stance here. If you want to save someone from embarassment, start with yourself.

But I am! I am Lance, the wind god! Have you not paying attention?

Did I mention the People's Republic of China?

Did I mention irrelevant?

[LordZen]

Originally Posted by Lance the Wind God

Would you please list the various parties that currently exist in Zormite, how many members belong to each, etc?

Have you read the Zormite Constitution recently? Maybe you should re-educate yourself.

Amendment I. Party Legality (Added: 06-09-2003)
Only the National Archist Party of Zormite (NAPZ) shall be recognized by the government of the Zormite Republic, in that only members of that party will be considered valid candidates for public office. All other political parties are henceforth banned from participating in government of the Zormite state. This means that only one party will be considered legal, internally. The government may still actively work with and cooperate with political groups governing other nations, and political groups that are not specific to any one state (international organizations).

You see, I understood the limitations presented to me within the basic structure of the Kingdom system. It was designed to work strictly as a top down structure, a pyramid, where most power lies at the top with a few, and there is a king figure in charge of everything. Allowing 2 people with equal maxed rights without a parent rank poses a problem because then they are able to remove the other person if they get into an argument. I had always wished that the KGUI was updated so that there was an option screen, even if it was simply checkboxes, that would help to individualize how each of the kingdoms ran. So I wanted to change the form of government, to a Republic. But to have a republic under such a limited system designed for absolute monarchs, its obvious that a truly democratic republic would be impossible. Only a more repressive republic would be supported. If you really let the members vote on the new leader, how do you force that new leader to step down after their term is up? You cant, without staff intervention.

You know, we even tried elections a few times, tried to even schedule it for every 2 weeks I think, in the Archigos Assembly Hall. It didnt work.

Originally Posted by Lance the Wind God

It's funny because you are the 'early leaders of the Zormite Republic', and I found it humorous that you were trying to explain something about the way you decided to make things by referring to yourself in the third person. Time doesn't quite flow like that, you know.

You completely missed my point. I had just explained to you that I was not refering to actual members of the kingdom from that time period when I used the term "early leaders of the Zormite Republic". And no, I was not refering to myself in 3rd person. I was refering to the story, which involves many more fictional people then there are that even plays GraalOnline.

Originally Posted by Lance the Wind God

That'd be nice, except for the problematic fact that I never went on a kingdom tag with my account as my nick...? Don't potshot my roleplaying skills. If anything, they're superior to yours. Still isn't the issue, though.

Thats funny, I distinctly recall somebody going by "King *Tseng (Dustari)" for a time, and Zalinto Rahz believes *Tseng is what you almost always used as prince. I'm sure there are probably some other witnesses still around if they spoke up. *Shrug*

Originally Posted by Lance the Wind God

Except that the way you explained the handing-down of the leadership didn't even bother mentioning the consent of the majority...?

Strange, I recall mentioning "election periods" several times in my original post on the subject in this thread. I guess left you to assume too much there.

Oh wait, I also said this:

Originally Posted by LordZen

So as long as NAPZ was able to remain the ruling party, through consent of the people, they in effect accomplish a secondary goal which was to preserve the monarchy in some form, but in a modernized, more stable architecture of government.

Originally Posted by Lance the Wind God

Don't put words in my mouth?

True, I made an unfair generalization based on my assesment of how you've reacted to only one instance of somebody using a background story to explain current Roleplaying circumstances. And then I posed a question. I appologize. I will make it more direct and focused.

"What is your problem with my use of a Background story to explain current RP circumstances in Zormite? While others on GK get away with far less thought out and/or much more far fetched RP background stories, you choose to attack one which was detailed, documented, and attempted to have a semi-realistic basis. Consider that the modern day real world consists of very un-liberal, oppressive, and officially Republican states.

China (Officially 'The People's Republic of China')
North Korea (Officially 'The Democratic People's Republic of Korea')

As long as it works a certain way on paper, legally, that is what defines it. Curroption and/or abuse of those laws does not mean the legal structure becomes void.

Just because a nation decides to describe itself as a Republic does not denote that its populace enjoys a large amount of personal freedoms, or any at all.

Furthermore, if your imagination is so limited that you cannot even accept a background RP story in a GAME which references to similar real life examples, why do you even bother wasting your time participating?"

Originally Posted by Lance the Wind God

Mmmhm.

What? You disagree with that assesment?



EDIT:

While writing this, everything from padren's last reply on was newly posted after I had last read the thread.

Just wanted to get across that I think Lance is a respectable global staff member. We've said good things about each other in the past, and we've worked together a couple of times regarding some PW issues. I dont know him super well on a personal level, but we get along perfectly fine on a professional level when it comes down to it.

I have no personal beef against you, either, Lance. We just dont agree on this subject, and I guess we both stand by our own convictions rather passionately.

[Crono]

-dances for lance-

My point is, this dictatorship is stupid. Where's the oppressiveness? Hell, I VOTE MOON GODDESS FOR DICTATOR OF ZORMITE. No seriously, she would atleast live up to her name.

On a more serious note, why call it a dictatorship when it's not?

[darkemporor]

Originally Posted by Gerami

My point is, this dictatorship is stupid. Where's the oppressiveness?

There IS oppression. They just aren't allowed to talk about it. >:]

Originally Posted by Lance

Off-topic posting is not against the rules, and neither should it be. We've been over this before... The best suggestion I can make about them is that if it really bothers you, you should split the thread.

It doesn't matter what ya'll don't like about Zormite. We've been over THIS before, too. I can only suggest if you don't like what's going on with Zormite, you split.

Wren

[Crono]

Originally Posted by darkemporor

There IS oppression. They just aren't allowed to talk about it. >:]

OPPRESSIVE FISH?! Woah, whats this world coming to?

All of you grumblers, please buy a plane ticket and go whine at that guy at his trial. That could actually be amusing.

[sarcasm]you're so funny[/sarcasm]

[Dehitay]

A lot of people seem to be confusing a Republic with a Democracy
Just to clarify things
Republic - one person represents a group of people
Democracy - major issues are voted upon

It is true that Zen did a horrible job describing why Zormite is a Republic contrary to what Wren said
But if you look at it from the view that Aki is representing the Zormite Republic, then it could be said it's a Republic