Rework of Old/New Ranks

[darkemporor]

Fellow kinsmen, If you find your rank missing, don't panic. We are doing a critical overhaul of many of the rank systems at this time. Several ministry leaders have requested changes and other ranks determined to be either obsolete or not fitting are being removed and replaced.

For now you will note our first goal was to remove ranks that really apply better to a medieval empire (like Dustari) and in some cases we wanted to replace them with our more appropriate originals. Some immediate changes include the following:

The Chancellor rank has become 'Eldekhan'.

The Ministry of Immigration was removed and certain of its ranks have been placed within the National Archist Party system. NAPZ being a political system, it also now encompasses the 'citizenry' ranks of Zormite. Additionally some 'stray' community ranks were added under this ministry. Keeping in mind this is a work in progress and may change more... a brief summary and explanation follows:

Archiagos - Head of the Archist party, this rank name replaces the former Magistrate

Archikitos - Ambassador (one to be appointed as representative of Zormite to each kingdom other than Zormite.)

Archion/Archioness - Replaces former Archist, assigned according to gender, a respected party member similar to Senators and Congressmen.

Filoghan - Replaces former Statesman/woman, similar to patriot, activist or entry level politician ranks.

All non-political ranks (immigrant, civilian and citizen) are also included in this ministry. It is assumed that the natural progression from immigrant, to civilian, to citizen leads Zormitians to become 'statesmen' for their kingdom unless they enter a specialty ministry like the military or information.

Anikogen - replaces former citizen rank
Terogen - replaces former civilian rank
Mikogen - replace former immigrant rank

As all non-magic or military are still ultimately 'servants' of the Archist Party, the postmaster and architect/s ranks fall logically within this same ministry.

Kodomos - Architect
Paradhon - Postmaster

Finally, although Zormites are expected to study and assimilate the logic of our rank naming system who's rank names, most know, are built from Greek derivatives, our potential recruits on the game are not. Therefore, since we need a rank to allow RP classes to be held within the castle, the following rank remains in standard english, at the bottom of the NAPZ 'citizenry' system.

RP Student

If you lost your rank as a result of these changes you must contact me in game to have it re-applied.

Wren

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Leet-o

:: message edited by wren to stay on topic and contain enough characters to be accepted ::

[darkemporor]

The ministries of Naval Defense and Arcane Arts have been assimilated into the ministry of Defense as follows:


Strategus (Leader of MoD, Head of all aspects of Military Defense)

Army--------------------
Stratikan (General)
Stratigen (Special accompanying Guard to the Dictatress and family)
Macholem (Sergeant)
Stratolem (Soldier)

Navy--------------------
Megaegir (Admiral)
Navtis (Lieutenant)
Kosidan (Sailor)

Magic-------------------
Magisan (High Mage)
Charmosan (Apprentice Mage)
Foitistan (Entry Level Mage)


The ministry of Religion has been absorbed by the Ministry of Information as follows:
Fedakhan
(Headmaster, Master Processor of all incoming Information, creator of Propaganda)
Elderan
(Direct Assistant to the Fedakhan)

Research and Information-------------------
(Cultural and Spiritual History, Religion, Research and Documentation: Cloister)
Celestus
-----Angelus
----------Kalidan

(Secular Research, Library, Historians, Teachers)
Mithralie
-----Geradin
----------Rugin

(First Level Spies, Field Scout/Gatherer, Intelligence)
Mesian
-----Sidos
----------Sidosan

(Entry Level Information/Monk/Scribe/Trainee)

Achiban


If you lost a tag as a result of these changes please contact me in game.

Wren

[Splke]

Eldalie? Woman, have you any clue of what that translates to

That's curious, I wonder if anybody's going to steal anything else of ours.


~


Edit:

By the way, the rest look dandy.

Edit2:

Cept Elderan >:O Another .. Forest wannabe rank.

[darkemporor]

OH. Eldalie definately needs changed then. Will do.

Elderan has been a MoI rank forever. I'll fix the Eldalie rank to something else asap.

Wren

[Splke]

My senseless yelling wins.

Thanks.

[LordZen]

Wren, I will admit that there are a few things I would like to talk with you about regarding the change. I will do so privately.

Oh except for one obvious mistake regarding the Admiral rank. Admiral, I believe, is strictly a naval military rank, perhaps the equivelant of a General in the Army, irl.

Oh and, maybe it would be possible to reserve the Archist title as a retired-leader-of-the-state rank, if its obsolete now? I requested to be given that rank after I stepped down because I liked that name, lol..

[darkemporor]

Thanks for the correction Zen. I have modified the descriptions of those ranks accordingly.

Keep in mind, those currently leading these ministries have had a large say in finalization of rank structure, with our common goal paramount.

That goal is to decrease the overall number of ranks significantly, as well as sprawling ministries with no leadership and not enough players to fill them.

Wren

[Splke]

I've gained some respect for Wren.. o.O

[Nappa]

No matter how you try to change kingdoms, by names, by supposedly "giving others power", it will always be a monarchy. You can't escape it. Zormite basically has Dustari ranks (I.E. Eldakhan -> Chancellor) with different names. Zormite already has no mind of it's own, and it's names contradict one eachother, which is quite stupid(Zormite Republic with a Dictator, What ?).

[LordZen]

Originally Posted by Nappa

No matter how you try to change kingdoms, by names, by supposedly "giving others power", it will always be a monarchy.

A monarchy is a system of government in which the power to govern the state is inherited and is given undividely to a single person usually for life. Monarchy also does not have a constitution which restricts that monarch's powers, this would be a "constitutional monarchy".

Originally Posted by Nappa

You can't escape it. Zormite basically has Dustari ranks (I.E. Eldakhan -> Chancellor) with different names.

Why do you consider Chancellor to be a Dustari rank? Why cant Dustari be taking it from Zormite? Its a common title, just like king. Are you going to yell at Forest for copying Dustari if Chris were to use King for his title? It has no air of creativity to it because its simply an english word. Chancellor has been used for a very long time in Zormite, as the 2nd highest office--an important position. In Dustari, I had to look it up, and it was not near as important. Dustari is meant to be a medieval kingdom, yet Chancellor is a considerably more widely used modern term -- so you'd think a title like that would not fit in with the 12th century so well as compared to the 19th or so.

In fact, Chancellor is actually the "Elder" position, but I changed the name to purposefuly sound more modern when reforming to the republic! lol. If anything, Chancellor does not fit as well with our medieval friends across the seas.

Also, what the hell? She just changed it to something more creative and unique, and you are attacking it for being too Dustarian? lol. The Aegis Knight stuff sounds Dustari specific, but general terms such as king, Chancellor, Citizen, etc, are not words which should only be allowed to show up in one kingdom. Those cant "belong" to any group specifically.

Originally Posted by Nappa

Zormite already has no mind of it's own, and it's names contradict one eachother, which is quite stupid(Zormite Republic with a Dictator, What ?).

No matter how hard you try at this, there is no real basis for your position. You are simply used to the more common examples of Republics. Most republics have only existed in the more recent past, and these are probably all that you are considering. For a country to be a republic, all that is nessisary is that the people elect representatives to make decisions for them. That is it. If the representatives decide that it is in the interest of the country to allow for an individual to be given the title of Dictator and a certain range of powers, that does not violate the foundation and basis of the Republic. In essence, the Dictator is put in power indirectly by the people, through the elected representatives.

Such examples of a Republic with the head of state having absolute or near autotomic rule would include the French Republic (Emperor Napoleon) and the Roman Republic (Ceasar, who was infact given the title of Dictator by the Roman Senate).

So, having a dictator as head of a republic does not nessisarily denote a contradiction.

Britannica entry for DICTATOR:

In the Roman republic, a temporary magistrate with extraordinary powers.

Nominated in times of crisis by a consul, recommended by the Senate, and confirmed by the Comitia Curiata, the dictator's term was six months or the duration of the crisis, and he had authority over all other magistrates. By 300 BC his powers were limited; no dictators were chosen after 202. The dictatorships of Sulla and Julius Caesar were a new form with almost unlimited powers. Caesar became dictator for life just before his assassination; afterward the office was abolished.

[GryffonDurime]

Chancellor was actually a fairly long-held rank in Dustari. Long held as in, 2k1's End and beyond.

Kamuii started a court of nobles type deal, and to the Patriarch of the Second House went the title of Chancellor. It also dealt with my status in the establishment of the University of Dustari, something back from the reign of Charles that never got finished.

So, yes, the title of Chancellor is both wholly fitting and quite traditional in Dustari.

[LordZen]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

Chancellor was actually a fairly long-held rank in Dustari. Long held as in, 2k1's End and beyond.

Kamuii started a court of nobles type deal, and to the Patriarch of the Second House went the title of Chancellor. It also dealt with my status in the establishment of the University of Dustari, something back from the reign of Charles that never got finished.

So, yes, the title of Chancellor is both wholly fitting and quite traditional in Dustari.

Oh, I did not intend to insist that Dustari's Chancellor rank is not fitting of Dustari or unimportant...my intent was to show that it is not less fitting to be used in other kingdoms. My whole deal about having to search for the rank in Dustari's rank heirarchy is the fact that it is burried in a pool of other ranks, while in Zormite it is/was the 2nd highest position of the state, and hence was easily visible right from the get-go.

[LordZen]

On the first page I addressed that question. Here is a direct link to the post:

http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/s...3&postcount=13

[falco10291029]

OK i personally after looking at the new ranks have a problem: This puts me in MoD, with Fitzwilliam. I am not sure if he is still the strategus, but if he is, this is unfair to me. I quit MoD originally because him and I do not get along at all. I do not think it is fair to me to be put back under his leadership, as he will still probably do the same basic things for ranks (not trying to sound powerhungry mentioning that i wont get ranks, srry if it seems that w ay) and overall leaderhsip of MoD i did not like, that is why I changed my ministry over. Now I have two things against me, my commander doesnt like me and i dont like the rank system (And dont say join another ministry im tired of that). I am hoping there will be some sort of soloution towards this, if not then I will do what I can to cope with it, though i will be unhappy. Thanks.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally Posted by falco10291029

I am hoping there will be some sort of soloution towards this, if not then I will do what I can to cope with it, though i will be unhappy. Thanks.

The solution: You adjust.

There is nothing wrong with the ranks at all, yo. Being in the kingdom isn't about trying to get a high rank so that you can be all bossy and be the leader with power and crap, because, well, even in a high rank you can't be. There simply aren't enough players in the kingdom for that to be the point. "WHOO I R AT THE TOP!! TIME TO BOSS ...um...three people around...yay... "

And fitzwilliam is liek, a totally neutral leader, yo.

[Zero Hour]

You think I hold a petty grudge...? You think little of me. The problem we had was solved when I destroyed you in a mono e mono fight (:

If you have a problem with an order present a strong argument against it, and I'll consider

Besides, I pretty much let the higher ranking member of that sub section control their people, and I control those members. *shrug*

[EDIT]

Although for anyone who's just tuning in - I was cruel to him. He questioned my ability (which is healthy, everyonce in a while) but what really got me was he said "Man, I wish I had of started playing 5 months before him, then I could be strategus."

^ And he says he's no power hungry. Uh oh.

I challenged him to a duel (I was lvl 25, and he was lvl 12) I won, naturally - but going into the duel he was certain he would win, I forget what it was for, but there was a bet, if he won, if I lost...etc. I still have his finger in my house.

[/EDIT]

[EDIT2]

We're getting off subject, and we got off subject when he brought up his problem - the grudge. Perhaps you can PM me "Falco" (short name)


I have nothing wrong with the ranks, it was shake'n'nake, and I helped

[/EDIT2]

[falco10291029]

The solution: You adjust.

There is nothing wrong with the ranks at all, yo. Being in the kingdom isn't about trying to get a high rank so that you can be all bossy and be the leader with power and crap, because, well, even in a high rank you can't be. There simply aren't enough players in the kingdom for that to be the point. "WHOO I R AT THE TOP!! TIME TO BOSS ...um...three people around...yay... "

And fitzwilliam is liek, a totally neutral leader, yo.

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

You think I hold a petty grudge...? You think little of me. The problem we had was solved when I destroyed you in a mono e mono fight (:

If you have a problem with an order present a strong argument against it, and I'll consider

Besides, I pretty much let the higher ranking member of that sub section control their people, and I control those members. *shrug*

[EDIT]

Although for anyone who's just tuning in - I was cruel to him. He questioned my ability (which is healthy, everyonce in a while) but what really got me was he said "Man, I wish I had of started playing 5 months before him, then I could be strategus."

^ And he says he's no power hungry. Uh oh.

I challenged him to a duel (I was lvl 25, and he was lvl 12) I won, naturally - but going into the duel he was certain he would win, I forget what it was for, but there was a bet, if he won, if I lost...etc. I still have his finger in my house.

[/EDIT]

[EDIT2]

We're getting off subject, and we got off subject when he brought up his problem - the grudge. Perhaps you can PM me "Falco" (short name)


I have nothing wrong with the ranks, it was shake'n'nake, and I helped

[/EDIT2]

OK i hate when people misinterpret what i say.... It's like this, i have no problem with new rank names and organization, I just wasn't happy that fitz was gonna be my leader. Also i wasn't complaining that i couldnt rank fast, i was complaining that if i had to do the same system (Dueling him to get a rank) I would be stuck at the same rank the whole time. But as he says he'll leave it to the leaders of the subsets, i should be fine. Also Fitz as for the duel, the dseetails were this, which he always leaves out: I was sure i cou;ld win because of one reason; he had very low magic resistance, about the same as someone else that was an even higher level, and onelarge bullet took 1/3 of their health, while when i hit fitz with near 15 of them, it barely took half of his health, if i had known that, i never would have challenged him. But that's over now... Also saying if i wa s in 5 months earlier to be strategus doesnt make me power hungry, i was just stating that I thought i would be a more just leader in rankups, not that i really wanted that position, i couldnt run a ministry right now neway, way too busy... If i missed anything from the quotes that i need to contradict to make me look awesome again, lemme know lol.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally Posted by falco10291029

i couldnt run a ministry right now neway, way too busy...

You couldn't run a ministry, period. Sorry

[falco10291029]

Who are you to know if I could run a ministry, I dont even know you. So shut up before making dumb comments like that.

[Zero Hour]

Let's not throw mud at each other. He's the second in command of the MoD, my assistant and cousin Ruatha Vimes. We're off topic, this thread was created to discuss the new ranks, please stay on topic.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Let's not throw mud at each other.

I didnt. It was a custard pie

[falco10291029]

Your right, I'll take it to the pms. Anyway I have a question, we have new ranks, so is the ranking system other than that gonna be changed at all?

[Zero Hour]

Some other ranks in other ministries may change, I'm not sure.

[falco10291029]

*Works to ignore mcgee's comment* No I meant the way it all wil lwork, not names and organization.

[Nappa]

I'll fight Zero Hour for him

[Zero Hour]

That would be totally unrelated (: Please, stay on topic.

[Nappa]

Staying on topic is not a rule! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL PEOPLE!?!?!

[Damix2]

Sub-forums can have their own rules too...

[falco10291029]

Yeah they can and im pretty sure in zormite forums ur supposed to stay on topic

[xAndrewx]

Magic-------------------
Magisan (High Mage)
Charmosan (Apprentice Mage)
Foitistan (Entry Level Mage)

Can someone tell me who can recrute for this please, I am looking to join a magic group, Thanks.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Vlad and i can...well, i can for another like, 3 days. roflcopter.

[xAndrewx]

Ahh kewl, But damn :x

[Shenti]

Yeah, uh... ranks, gee, cool, whatever, most of them I have no idea what they mean(even with your "translations"), but uh, cool, I guess.

Anyway, what's the use of Ministry of Defense? No fools will ever attack us. Change it to Ministry of Owning the ****z(KJ), and let's get our big o' naval fleet out and bomb the crap outta em.

Actually, the chances of their ships being outside are slim to none, but... it'd be cool to see all those ships sailing. I mean, we have like 50.

Yeah, seriously, PK their PModers and show 'em what for! We are about to undergo a war here! We have the initiative, let us strike first! Death to Nayoko and her non-RP ****ish knights! Yar!

But, to stay on topic, I will sound like one of you other dudes on here.

Ahem. I say: "omfg those ranx look awsome kepe it up!!1!one"

[Vlad]

Shenti, if you're going to act like an idiot, go post on another forum.

[Zero Hour]

To Akira, about Shenit:

Personally, when I was the Strategus of the MoD I wanted to be peaceful with KJ - that was Dustari's war and they can more than handle themselfs.

After Anastasia got into power I was hoping that you would maintain your alliance with Dustari, but shun the idea of going into battle with Dustari against KJ. Besides - Dustari doesn't need help destroying KJ if that was their will. (Well, being the devil's advocate that I am, I would likely assist KJ in strategy if Dustari were attacking them :P)

This Shenti one has walked in, read archaic posts, taken them as recent - and may very well throw more fuel on the fire of war. I'm not sure if you want to go to war with KJ or not, but he's not exactley going about it the right way.

If you want to go to war with KJ either knit pick or simpley declare war with them! But after getting to know Nayoko, and the way she works, I think that she doesn't really want to go to war either.

to Shenti:

Dude, some of these threads are months, and months old. A lot of the stuff was exagerations made in prospect of war. Eric Polegato wanted war, and I know that personally - just like I know him personally, in real life. Now, sure war can be fun... but wouldn't a civil war be so much more interesting (in RP)?

Anywho... I can't preach, I wasn't that great of a Zormitian myself. But Fitzwilliam Vimes did think, even if he didn't take action.

[darkemporor]

Spike, thanks for the heads up. I changed Eldalie to Eldekhan.

Wren

[Splke]

Zormite isn't a Fish Kingdom anymore.. I agree with Nappa.

You have gone outside of your roots, and have constructed a kingdom much like Dustari's.

I agree with that as well.

I like the idea of new ranks, I like Wren being active, I like Wren's intelligent arguement, but I've never liked Zormite ever since Zen was out of power, so I can't support the now very, human RP based, if any RP based kingdom you have.

Nappa, quit the flaming, you can do this in-game with much more progress. Your just clogging up this thread and making it look bad, also getting me / you post count, but hey.

[Discharge]

I don't see how Zormite is similar to Dustari really. Zormite seems like it’s out of the medieval period and into modern day nation. What I don’t understand is how it can be a republic when there is a dictator in control. I presume there’s something that I do not understand here, so someone fill me in.