Gold Accounts (Making Them Worth-While)

[Venom_Fish]

Hello, all.
I'll get straight to the point.
There should be a new perk added to having a gold subscription.
Currently, there's little other purpose than working/owning a developer server or the usual upgrade to play Classic Playerworlds.

In light of this, a very lucrative addition would be to allow Gold Subscriptions to log on iPhone/Facebook, similar to how VIP's on facebook can log on Era iPhone.

In summation, by interlinking the servers through Gold/VIP subscriptions, you really grant people a reason to upgrade their accounts (even classic).
To be quite frank, very few people are interested in Kingdoms/Zone anymore (the numbers are clear). Therefore, this would really be an adequate and appropriate replacement.

[ffcmike]

This may seem like a simple and obvious way for Graal to make money, and I'm sure there probably would be some interest in this among PC users, but you also have to consider that this would put a much larger number of players who use an iDevice at a disadvantage. The main reason it is such an attractive proposition to PC users is simply the sheer playercount, which could be damaged if the majority of users begin to suffer a worse experience.

Not only this, but in merging the two communities there's a risk the older community could open up the eyes of the younger community towards the lower standards they have been buying into. I imagine that if attitudes were to be influenced in such a way it could actually cost more money in the long haul than it would create at first.

I do agree however that Gold subscription is becoming redundant, I imagine that Gold or Classic subscription may be phased out or watered down should micro-transactions kick in on a larger scale.

[jkldogg]

ffcmike is a genius.

[TSAdmin]

The part I glued myself to is where Thor said "Gold Subscription is becoming redundant" because if I remember correctly, we were supposed to be removing Gold Subscription entirely once Stefan worked on and fleshed out a similar system of "Global Gelat Shop" to that of the iDevice shop. The question I'd be asking, rather than suggesting additional perks for Gold Subscription, is: "Is that still happening or not?"

[Venom_Fish]

@ffcmike
A very valid argument that I also juggled around in my head.
However, that bridge seems to have been partially crossed by allowing Classic Facebook players to log on iPhone.

To be quite frank, a lot of the players that seek such a privilege are PC players who only do it for the sheer playercount.

I mean, since the release of facebook and that option, Unholy Nation has lost a lot of its playerbase to not facebook, but Classic iPhone.
In reference, the effects you described, which only seem logical, have yet to become prevalent.

Therefore, I'd have to ask, will they, with certainty, be the case?

Or will it be coherent with the co-existence of facebook/iphone players and unproblematic (for the most part)?

@TSAdmin:
Yeah, "Free To Play", was the whole announcement, as I recalled.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

@ffcmike
I mean, since the release of facebook and that option, Unholy Nation has lost a lot of its playerbase to not facebook, but Classic iPhone.
In reference, the effects you described, which only seem logical, have yet to become prevalent.

Therefore, I'd have to ask, will they, with certainty, be the case?

Or will it be coherent with the co-existence of facebook/iphone players and unproblematic (for the most part)?

Admittedly it's entirely speculation on my part rather than through definitive evidence, but I'd imagine a lot of the players crossing that bridge from UN are more the competitive type, as opposed to the casual type.
Should the older community therefore have an influence on the attitudes of the younger community, that could potentially shift some of the focus off of item collecting and flaunting, and onto more conventional gameplay such as sparring and guild forts.
Whether this would have any effect on income would really depend on how much income is generated through in-game sales compared to purchasing of VIP or cross-platform accessibility, that is assuming there is no movement to harness the more competitive desires in such ways as developing events.

Something else I should have mentioned though, is that Graal's management must surely realise they need to keep PC Graal open for the sake of being the development platform to their mainstream servers.
So on one hand, they wouldn't want to do something that hinders PC Graal too much, or else that could have consequences on potential development of new resources.
But on the other hand, I don't think they'll want PC Graal to be too successful either, as this could shift traffic towards a more chaotic player-ran environment as opposed to their controlled environments.

[fowlplay4]

Facebook/PC Access to iPhone servers has killed their community or at least hyper-aged it and further exposes them to hacking and the ****heads that are banned in the PC communities.

[Venom_Fish]

@ffcmike&fowlplay4
Still juggling it around in my head, but it seems like that fowlplay4 just provided a very valuable insight in his describing the effects of the facebook/iphone VIP access on Classic Facebook.

Seeing as Graal is a social game, there's a natural tendency to migrate to wherever is most populated. Perhaps if PC players are granted the option to vacate their 50-60 average playerbase server for one(s) averaging 1000+, this would, with proven certainty, drastically drain the playerbase of PC graal.

In reference to your argument, the existence of PC Graal seems crucial to the progressive development of these more densely populated servers.

However, I still want to further the inquiry, seeing as most development/developers tend to rent private servers for their work and/or enjoy building their own pieces. Although most of these pieces are unsuccessful in their rise to popularity or even completion, few servers do stem out.

In short, players tend to migrate to where its most populated.
Developers normally migrate to where its least populated.
However, they tend to direct the fruits of their labor to said populated areas.

Therefore, would the assimilation of these separate platforms really affect development?

In a worst case scenario, wouldn't PC Graal just turn into a development-only platform?

Also, if so many eager developers stemmed from such a small overall playerbase before, wouldn't the number simply increase with a now larger pool?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

In short, players tend to migrate to where its most populated.
Developers normally migrate to where its least populated.
However, they tend to direct the fruits of their labor to said populated areas.

Therefore, would the assimilation of these separate platforms really affect development?

The majority of developers who work on hidden servers are inexperienced/unproven, and aren't able to create successful new servers or new resources that could generate significant income.
Not only this, but getting a new server onto the list where it can then maintain a playercount has to be the single biggest motivation, even if it is unrealistic.
Getting a new server onto an iDevice/Facebook would be even harder due to the lower capabilities, higher need for such a server to perform, not to mention the endorsement of Stefan, who is also probably going to want such resources to be tested in a populated environment first anyway.

Much of the better developers are already involved with established servers (if anywhere), where however much of the work operates on a smaller time scale focussed around entertaining the current population. When it comes to redeveloping older servers, nobody has yet managed to break back through, few have remained motivated to continue their project in the absence of a playercount.

It also has to be considered that while there would still be a lot of interest from players to rent a server (LOL LOOK AT ME I HAVE STAFF BOOTS), much of the scripts added to rented servers are copied from the code gallery, generally (not always ofcourse) by scripters involved with established servers.

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

The majority of developers who work on hidden servers are inexperienced/unproven, and aren't able to create successful new servers or new resources that could generate significant income.
Not only this, but getting a new server onto the list where it can then maintain a playercount has to be the single biggest motivation, even if it is unrealistic.
Getting a new server onto an iDevice/Facebook would be even harder due to the lower capabilities, higher need for such a server to perform, not to mention the endorsement of Stefan, who is also probably going to want such resources to be tested in a populated environment first anyway.

Much of the better developers are already involved with established servers (if anywhere), where however much of the work operates on a smaller time scale focussed around entertaining the current population. When it comes to redeveloping older servers, nobody has yet managed to break back through, few have remained motivated to continue their project in the absence of a playercount.

It also has to be considered that while there would still be a lot of interest from players to rent a server (LOL LOOK AT ME I HAVE STAFF BOOTS), much of the scripts added to rented servers are copied from the code gallery, generally (not always ofcourse) by scripters involved with established servers.

Hm, valid argument.
However, in a more factored and general form, the majority of developers are inexperienced/unproven and, as you stated, the few experienced developers, for the most part, are engaged in established servers.

In reference to all this, the question still remains unanswered and
the effects of VIP Access to all platforms still seems to be mainly pertinent to players.

Also, I cannot give much validation to your argument for an isolated PC Graal simply for the maintenance of a test-based population. I must deny this validation due to the fact that most of the servers that are now on the Classic Tab stemmed from UC Servers who vigilantly pursued the unrealistic goal of "Classic" status.

In retrospect, these UC servers developed a distinct popularity while still underground.

That being said, why will this sort of development, which has been the way for lord knows how long, be affected by the shifting of the playerbase to a more densely populated platform? When after all, the playerbase has always shifted to where it was most densely populated.

The only developmental effects I see, and correct me if I'm wrong, would be the coming insignificance of current Classic Servers/Status. Their loss of population would be similar to that of Gold Servers and henceforth their established developers would be at a loss, which would either motivate them to improve their performance, concepts, and direction, or ultimately falter and resign.

In short, wouldn't Classic/Gold become comparable to Hosted (better developed UC Servers), and universal iPhone/Facebook servers become an assimilation of what we knew as Classic/Gold? Basically, the popularity of Classic Servers, at the price of Gold.

All in all, it seems like a very lucrative approach, doesn't it?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Also, I cannot give much validation to your argument for an isolated PC Graal simply for the maintenance of a test-based population. I must deny this validation due to the fact that most of the servers that are now on the Classic Tab stemmed from UC Servers who vigilantly pursued the unrealistic goal of "Classic" status.

I should clarify that I'm not arguing in favour of what I feel is the best solution, but the impression I have obtained as to the purpose of PC Graal.

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

That being said, why will this sort of development, which has been the way for lord knows how long, be affected by the shifting of the playerbase to a more densely populated platform? When after all, the playerbase has always shifted to where it was most densely populated.

PC Graal becoming sparsely populated in favour of higher playerbases on different platforms could possibly result in development becoming more exclusive to the elite. In terms of meaningful development this won't make much difference at first, but in taking away the albeit false perception among newer players that they could have their own server being played by a lot of players, this could reduce the more real incentive of new players to learn development for themself.

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

In short, wouldn't Classic/Gold become comparable to Hosted (better developed UC Servers), and universal iPhone/Facebook servers become an assimilation of what we knew as Classic/Gold? Basically, the popularity of Classic Servers, at the price of Gold.

All in all, it seems like a very lucrative approach, doesn't it?

Again I think this is where you have to weigh up how many players would be willing to pay for accessibility, against any potential hindrance to the experience of players on other platforms, combined with potential change in the production of new resources, where it can also be argued improvement may yet be required in order for the iPhone servers to sustain themself long term.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

further exposes them to hacking and the ****heads that are banned in the PC communities.

yup

[Sword]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Facebook/PC Access to iPhone servers has killed their community or at least hyper-aged it and further exposes them to hacking and the ****heads that are banned in the PC communities.

Yeah, because Graal has so many dangerous hackers that plague this game still today. You probably didn't play when hackers were actually an issue, people like Jelly and Viper. We're in the year 2011, if you want to credit the 10 or so PC players that play Facebook Graal via PC as the reason to why their community has been "killed" then you're lost.

[Crono]

yup. facebook version itself is pointless, we already have a pc game why do we need facebook aswell? have our normal client share the same server as the facebook one and get rid of "VIP". as a pc player who used to play iphone it's dumb to let us play there on pc.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Crono

yup. facebook version itself is pointless, we already have a pc game why do we need facebook aswell? have our normal client share the same server as the facebook one and get rid of "VIP". as a pc player who used to play iphone it's dumb to let us play there on pc.

VIP stuff was phased out some time ago. I mean, some servers still have (VIP) guild-related stuff, but it isn't as integral as it used to be.