Phasing out v5

[Admins]

It's almost one year since we have released v6, time to proceed and disabling the old version. However there are still around 10% of players which use v5. Please tell us why you use v5:
- Because v5 looks better/different?
- Is v5 faster for you? Have you recently tried v6?
- Advancements like external PM windows are not a reason to switch?
- Playerlist on v5 feels nicer?

If v5 is released, the development staff including scripters can use more advanced features of v6 like multiple GUI styles and external windows. Will you switch to v6 if the old version is disabled or will it be a serious problem for you?

[Tim_Rocks]

Awesome, can't wait for everyone to be on the same client.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's almost one year since we have released v6, time to proceed and disabling the old version. However there are still around 10% of players which use v5. Please tell us why you use v5:
- Because v5 looks better/different?
- Is v5 faster for you? Have you recently tried v6?
- Advancements like external PM windows are not a reason to switch?
- Playerlist on v5 feels nicer?

If v5 is released, the development staff including scripters can use more advanced features of v6 like multiple GUI styles and external windows. Will you switch to v6 if the old version is disabled or will it be a serious problem for you?

Personally, I like v5's appearance better, I also appreciate using the built-in joypad controls from time to time, v6's chat/playerlist likes to mess with me by everytime other time I click out of an external window in it, it decides to minimize the entire client, but that could be due to me not updating the client.

Just to make it clear about the joypad support reason, I know there are programs that can make your joypads useable still, but why should I have to do something like this when the old version clearly shows there is support for it?

I will usually jump on v6 anyways just so I can get used to it for when this would eventually happen, but those are my reasons I prefer v5 still for player use.

v5 or v6 doesn't bother me in choice, v6 does operate better for servers that are up to date for me, so if anything, I'd love to switch entirely to v6, but these minor things are what keep me from doing so, I usually get on Graal just so I can keep a check on those friends that still play I know of and If I can't do it seamlessly, why bother?

[BlueMelon]

I don't even remember what V5 looks like any more

[Fulg0reSama]

Just to give a refresher of both version's general appearances in GUIs/playerlist, view here at imgur

http://imgur.com/yCzqQyb,bM1m1Ny,gvc...um0AyJ,YptWgzG

Personally, v5 handled it better with using the GUIs for simple windows like "Connecting to Server" with the default font, but the font in v6 is just ghastly to read, makes me feel like I'm being scolded at just by looking at it.

I also like the appearance of the playerlist window over the current, makes it look too busy with the blue and bulbous scrollbars, which are fine for scripted window boxes. (My opinion)

[Rave_J]

since i switch to v6 seem like i start to lag more but cant tell if its from the lag on era or the client

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

since i switch to v6 seem like i start to lag more but cant tell if its from the lag on era or the client

If it's not an FPS drop you're talking about, then it's the connection between you and the server and not likely anything to do with the client itself. The word "lag" is horribly misused these days, so forgive me if that's exactly what you meant in the first place.

[Rave_J]

I don't think its on my end due i have a high internet connection and the server was in texas so ya when i do a ping test its low
just seems like graal holds back my pc performance for some reason but offline it does it too example v5 offline level editor when u test run a level i dont lag at all during v5 now v6 since a few months ago it lags when i test my level offline for some reason and my pc is only a year old with windows 7

[fowlplay4]

1. No UDP/P2P - This wouldn't be a problem if you improved the server<->client communication and interpolation to smooth out movement.
2. V5 Playerlist is superior in many players opinions.
3. Fonts appear bolded in comparison to V6.

[Gos_pira]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

1. No UDP/P2P - This wouldn't be a problem if you improved the server<->client communication and interpolation to smooth out movement.
2. V5 Playerlist is superior in many players opinions.
3. Fonts appear bolded in comparison to V6.

This. And also the profile window from v5 is better. The external windows should be worked on more so they behave more like native windows.

Maybe generate Gtk / Windows Forms from the scripts rather than rendering it like it's done now?

[Crono]

I like the v5 playerlist/profile windows and the font appearance. Not really serious though.

Lack of UDP is only really important for classic-style sparrers, and UN is practically dead so I doubt anyone cares/knows what it is. With v6 players, and not only staff, should be able to log on the iServers. Facebook client is ****. List the servers on the serverlist, let's see some pretty numbers for Graal's sake.

[Cubical]

Originally Posted by Crono

I like the v5 playerlist/profile windows and the font appearance. Not really serious though.

Lack of UDP is only really important for classic-style sparrers, and UN is practically dead so I doubt anyone cares/knows what it is. With v6 players, and not only staff, should be able to log on the iServers. Facebook client is ****. List the servers on the serverlist, let's see some pretty numbers for Graal's sake.

Whenever I look for mobile games now I usually look to see if it has a PC counterpart so I can play it when I'm at home on the PC so I'm not straining my eyes on the phone and when I'm at work or waiting around. Cross device portability is where everything is heading not just games but legitimate work applications, social applications. Graal has the advantage that other online games do not have and that's to make its content available on all devices with it's current functionality. I'd play iClassic and iZone if i was able to play on the PC as well as my phone but I just cant stand spending hours staring at my phone.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Cubical

Whenever I look for mobile games now I usually look to see if it has a PC counterpart so I can play it when I'm at home on the PC so I'm not straining my eyes on the phone and when I'm at work or waiting around. Cross device portability is where everything is heading not just games but legitimate work applications, social applications. Graal has the advantage that other online games do not have and that's to make its content available on all devices with it's current functionality. I'd play iClassic and iZone if i was able to play on the PC as well as my phone but I just cant stand spending hours staring at my phone.

I couldn't agree more with you, I'd also like to see keyboard support for the iDevices so I can get a PC feeling while I'm online. Could be a nice change of pace, not sure if it's already been done though.

Originally Posted by Gos_pira

This. And also the profile window from v5 is better. The external windows should be worked on more so they behave more like native windows.

Maybe generate Gtk / Windows Forms from the scripts rather than rendering it like it's done now?

I understand this, but I've been using v6 for more than a year now (ever since beta), and exactly as Blue stated; I have no idea what v5 even looks like anymore. It grows on you, trust me.

[Gos_pira]

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

I understand this, but I've been using v6 for more than a year now (ever since beta), and exactly as Blue stated; I have no idea what v5 even looks like anymore. It grows on you, trust me.

It's not just how it looks, it's about how the elements act when you interact with them. Like marking text to copy and such. But, I guess you're right to some extent. I still think Stefan could put some more effort into making the scripted windows work nicer. (there are suggestions mentioned in other threads)

[Starfire2001]

Still use v5 because of...

UDP

[Akios]

Originally Posted by Starfire2001

Still use v5 because of...

UDP

oui oui.

[alskdjfhg]

UDP, thanks

[WonderBread]

UDP support. v6 takes an enormous toll on sparring.

[MysticX2X]

Personally don't like the appearance of the playerlist or the use of GUI's on profiles. Also the UN forums doesn't work properly with v6.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Personally don't like the appearance of the playerlist or the use of GUI's on profiles. Also the UN forums doesn't work properly with v6.

That still hasn't been updated? Jeez.

[dmhabe]

-v6 doesn't have joypad support, v5 does.
-performance: I'm not going to sit here and pretend i know 100% of what I'm talking about with internet termanology but its been proven many times when you have "use fixed port for UDP" and "don't use UDP for data packages" checked your player delays and appears "laggy" to the rest of the community. Every time ive tried V6 its not an option to disable and there is a noticeable difference in smoothness when you play, and I quickly jumped back to v5.

[Tim_Rocks]

I've got a pretty big joy stick that I'd like supporting on v6.

[Admins]

Well using joysticks in games is much easier with some keyboard-emulator I guess?

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well using joysticks in games is much easier with some keyboard-emulator I guess?

Not really. That involves the use of third-party programs players have to install and configure in addition to the game itself.

And if I'm not mistaken, third-party programs aren't encouraged anyway. Or does that mean it's suddenly okay to use macro programs (which emulate keystrokes and mouseclicks) now too?

I strongly support leaving controller support in, as I use one much more often than the keyboard when doing stuff like combat or participating in events. Again, it was a really nice feature that shouldn't have been taken out.



Also, on an unrelated note, could you possibly address this drawing issue with terrain that I posted about some time ago? I'd really like to make taller, sharper mountain peaks and other types of terrain, but this bug creates limitations.

Here's a video this time, so you can see what I mean.

[6sixty6]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well using joysticks in games is much easier with some keyboard-emulator I guess?

dude use xpadder and a ps2/xbox360 controler

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by 6sixty6

dude use xpadder and a ps2/xbox360 controler

Read Draenin's post.

The fact is, we shouldn't have to do this, especially considering that the support is still in v5 and not in v6.

[Gos_pira]

Yeah, the joystick/gamepad support is great. Feels more like playing ALTTP. =) I play with my Playstation 2 controller whenever I pk and such.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Gos_pira

Yeah, the joystick/gamepad support is great. Feels more like playing ALTTP. =) I play with my Playstation 2 controller whenever I pk and such.

Yeah, it is pretty fun.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Gos_pira

Yeah, the joystick/gamepad support is great. Feels more like playing ALTTP. =) I play with my Playstation 2 controller whenever I pk and such.

Movement on a controller just feels a lot more 'tight' to me because you can roll your thumb around on a d-pad or joystick instead of using two or three fingers to move around.

I use an unofficial PSX controller that has programmable turbo buttons. Always handy for spamming stuff if need be. :]


And yeah, definitely feels much more like playing a regular Zelda game that way.

[geneticfrog]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's almost one year since we have released v6, time to proceed and disabling the old version. However there are still around 10% of players which use v5. Please tell us why you use v5:
- Because v5 looks better/different?
- Is v5 faster for you? Have you recently tried v6?
- Advancements like external PM windows are not a reason to switch?
- Playerlist on v5 feels nicer?

If v5 is released, the development staff including scripters can use more advanced features of v6 like multiple GUI styles and external windows. Will you switch to v6 if the old version is disabled or will it be a serious problem for you?

On v6 there is a option in f3 its "use open GL for graphics" and this option is toggled ON every time you x out and reopen graal..........

however most people do not know their lag is because of this option being on. for me an countless others who dont know yet, their lag may be caused by Open GL for graphics.

this would explain why many choose not to use it if they dont know,.

[GodlyAmbitions]

open gl lag isn't the case for all people, some people are more stable in open gl

[Tim_Rocks]

Have you guys considered using computers that weren't from the 90's?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

Have you guys considered using computers that weren't from the 90's?

but computers from the 90's ran graal just fine

[Spiker]

I used my Dell for 13 years and it finally died. I played Graal on it daily for about 10 years.

[GodlyAmbitions]

Open Gl are for newer computerS? because mine is fairly new but with bad graphic motherboard

[alskdjfhg]

I believe OpenGL runs better on new OS's like Windows Vista and 7. XP might not run OpenGl as well...

[-HateD-]

Alright guys, if you want graal to improve then you have to embrace the new **** and basically help staff test it. Less people using v6=bugs being found less often with less people to fix them (theoretically). V5 was cool, let's make v6 better then v7 even better than v6. Work together so that graal can last another 10 years

[skillmaster19]

There are numerous with running the v6 client on windows 7 64 bit:
-sound does not work by default without changing a setting in the config
-there is massive fps issues where I only get 2-3 fps, makes Graal unplayable
-startup often takes as much as 10 minutes without deleting the config file or doesn't start at all.


Additionally, the interface in v6 sucks, I highly prefer the old one, especially the playerlist/pm window.

[MattKan]

Originally Posted by skillmaster19

There are numerous with running the v6 client on windows 7 64 bit:
-sound does not work by default without changing a setting in the config
-there is massive fps issues where I only get 2-3 fps, makes Graal unplayable
-startup often takes as much as 10 minutes without deleting the config file or doesn't start at all.


Additionally, the interface in v6 sucks, I highly prefer the old one, especially the playerlist/pm window.

You can change your interface.

[cptmetal]

i have a regularly updated computer, opengl is lowering my frame rate. if i delete the buttons on hotkeys (ijkl for movement) when i restart graal they reappear. Playerlist was SO much better. i like the new mass button, but that's about it. the Icon in the bottom right for when im in firefox saying hi you have a pm. F10 needs removal permanently. Graal needs to have MMO mouse/peripheral support. (i run a razer nostromo and razer naga setup, i play Zodiac) that's off the top of my head.