A lack of lats?

[Laek2007]

Since I came back to graal, and started doing some lat work again. I've had Managers from about everywere draging at me just because I'm a LAT. From what I've read and heard, most of the current UC servers are in desperat need of LATs. It's always been tough finding good enough NATs but for once, It feels like theres more talanted NATs the LATs.

Is it because the talanted LATs has converted into NATs or is it because they are just too lazy these days?

[Pimmeh]

No one can find the staff he/she needs :P trust me
Im lucky to have some LATs in my team, im lucky to have some NATs in my team and Im lucky to have two really good GATs in my team. So yeah, its a matter of luck, charisma and the level of your playerworld (good concept, bad concept)

[Laek2007]

Originally Posted by Pimmeh

No one can find the staff he/she needs :P trust me
Im lucky to have some LATs in my team, im lucky to have some NATs in my team and Im lucky to have two really good GATs in my team. So yeah, its a matter of luck, charisma and the level of your playerworld (good concept, bad concept)

I don't agree to this. I still think it's easier finding GATs and NATs then LATs now a days.

[Codein]

Originally Posted by Laek2007

I don't agree to this. I still think it's easier finding GATs and NATs then LATs now a days.

I suppose it's because most LATs have picked up another skill, such as scripting or graphics design, or vice-versa. Most developers on Graal can develop in two areas or more.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Laek2007

I don't agree to this. I still think it's easier finding GATs and NATs then LATs now a days.

I disagree. Scripting takes (sometimes) years of practice to become good at it, or you have to take classes and have a good understanding of a lot of languages. Graphics takes a lot of skill and talent to be able to produce good graphics worthy of even the crappiest of servers. My eight year old brother can go in to Graal editor and make a half-decent level. It's not very hard to click, right-click, and click again. If anything, NATs are still by-FAR the hardest staff to come across, especially one who actually knows what they're doing.

[Laek2007]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I disagree. Scripting takes (sometimes) years of practice to become good at it, or you have to take classes and have a good understanding of a lot of languages. Graphics takes a lot of skill and talent to be able to produce good graphics worthy of even the crappiest of servers. My eight year old brother can go in to Graal editor and make a half-decent level. It's not very hard to click, right-click, and click again. If anything, NATs are still by-FAR the hardest staff to come across, especially one who actually knows what they're doing.

Oh, well you got a point. Ofcourse scripting is by far the hardest development skill. But I still think it's alot of NATs out here now a days. People who started out as lats and GATs have adopted to scripting and been learning it for years..

Most NATs I know are former LATs.

And yeah, your refering Levelsmaking to a 8 year old boy. I take that as a insult. Because both you and I know, beeing a LAT is not about making one "decent" level. It's about making alot, I mean ALOT of levels who all has to be decent. It takes patient and creativity, to not get everything to look alike. And have a fixed Idea.

Everything on a graal server is just as important. Scripts wouldn't be anything without levels. , Levels wouldn't be anything without graphics. And the server wouldn't be anything without scripts.

[DustyPorViva]

There is a lack of everything... ever wonder why? Pretty simple, actually. There are ~100+ UC servers, all seeking staff. That's about a 5:1 playerbase to server ratio, and you can't expect every player to be able to develop. There just isn't a large enough playerbase to support all these servers... not to mention not every player can actually develop. So most developers stretch their skills to multiple servers, leading to servers not getting the attention they need to actually get quality work done--it just turns into a big mess. If people stopped worrying about getting their own server it wouldn't be such a problem. Look at all these modern servers, basically they all have the same idea. Why not just work together and have a nice, large, server with more staff. I mean when there's so many servers with the same idea as the next, I don't see the point in everyone having their own, other than people just wanting to bask in the glory if it ever 'gets big'.

EDIT: also, you just don't 'convert' from one skill to another, you carry your skills with you. I started a GAT, then learned to script, now I do both(I've also dwelved in the art of level making, and I think I could hold my own)... I don't suddenly forget my old skills for my new one.
I think the new influx of NAT's has to do with GS2 being basically the biggest new addition in terms of development for Graal. Levels haven't really had anything new added since addtiledef, but I'm sure once there is a level editor with layers enabled, there will be a lot of people trying their hand at levels. GS2 recently came out, and everyone is trying their hand at it, and it's getting all the attention. Either way, I personally think the best way to get good staff is through the people you know. I have always found my staff through friends, not through advertising. It's more trustworthy, and easier to know who can do what to what limits. I say get to know people, and you'll find the staff you need sooner or later.

[Horrified]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

There is a lack of everything... ever wonder why? Pretty simple, actually. There are ~100+ UC servers, all seeking staff.

How many of are seeking it, though, because they actual are worried about there own playerworld? The majority of unkown players are in it for power. Not like you can't tell from how they only push there server to a ceartin point, then stop; the majority don't care. They spend all there time day-dreaming about how everyone would give you such good compliments as a manager of a world with 200 players on.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

That's about a 5:1 playerbase to server ratio, and you can't expect every player to be able to develop.

You should be able to expect those who say they can develop to actually being able to develop. We're booked on a large amount of LATs, those that can be found that can do good things with pics1.png aren't in double-digits, less know anything more then using predefined objects.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

There just isn't a large enough playerbase to support all these servers... not to mention not every player can actually develop.

And half the servers that want staff never log on to hire them anyway.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

So most developers stretch their skills to multiple servers, leading to servers not getting the attention they need to actually get quality work done--it just turns into a big mess.

It's not they're being generous, though, the majority that work on 10+ servers are hoping eventually one becomes successful, they never get removed and they're a cool staff for the new popular Era-2!

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

If people stopped worrying about getting their own server it wouldn't be such a problem. Look at all these modern servers, basically they all have the same idea. Why not just work together and have a nice, large, server with more staff.

Because then only one of them is going to be the manager; and that means only one of them is going to "bask in the glory of the new modern Era-2!" It's the need for being the manager of the world, or the owner, or whatever they call it that makes them feel good about themselves.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I mean when there's so many servers with the same idea as the next, I don't see the point in everyone having their own, other than people just wanting to bask in the glory if it ever 'gets big'.

How do we know they have the same idea?

"It's a secret to everybody"

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

EDIT: also, you just don't 'convert' from one skill to another, you carry your skills with you. I started a GAT, then learned to script, now I do both(I've also dwelved in the art of level making, and I think I could hold my own)... I don't suddenly forget my old skills for my new one.

Yeah, but if they learn to make graphics and they think it's better then making levels, they sure as hell don't want to make more levels when they can make graphics.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I think the new influx of NAT's has to do with GS2 being basically the biggest new addition in terms of development for Graal. Levels haven't really had anything new added since addtiledef, but I'm sure once there is a level editor with layers enabled, there will be a lot of people trying their hand at levels.

Like I said, you'll find hundreds of people who can level and perhaps one that can barely get past on a decent level. When I was advertising around for my server for LATs, I got 23 tryouts and 1 made it, only to quit because he wanted to work somewhere that already had more work done and he would be "uber cool and popular."

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

GS2 recently came out, and everyone is trying their hand at it, and it's getting all the attention. Either way, I personally think the best way to get good staff is through the people you know. I have always found my staff through friends, not through advertising. It's more trustworthy, and easier to know who can do what to what limits. I say get to know people, and you'll find the staff you need sooner or later.

Friends is probably an easier way to get at it; but usually you befriend others playing on Zodiac or helping on the "quests" in Unholy Nation; the majority of those players aren't taking there time in development. I've befriended quite a few whom I play with very occassionally and I've asked about development and none knew they could even make there own server, so I bet I could take the blame for why a few new Dev <Acc> popped up recently and will be hiring for there Era-2.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Horrified

How many of are seeking it, though, because they actual are worried about there own playerworld? The majority of unkown players are in it for power. Not like you can't tell from how they only push there server to a ceartin point, then stop; the majority don't care. They spend all there time day-dreaming about how everyone would give you such good compliments as a manager of a world with 200 players on.

You should be able to expect those who say they can develop to actually being able to develop. We're booked on a large amount of LATs, those that can be found that can do good things with pics1.png aren't in double-digits, less know anything more then using predefined objects.

And half the servers that want staff never log on to hire them anyway.

It's not they're being generous, though, the majority that work on 10+ servers are hoping eventually one becomes successful, they never get removed and they're a cool staff for the new popular Era-2!

I'm having a very, very hard time following this. I just have no idea what kind of point you're trying to make.

Because then only one of them is going to be the manager; and that means only one of them is going to "bask in the glory of the new modern Era-2!" It's the need for being the manager of the world, or the owner, or whatever they call it that makes them feel good about themselves.

Exactly my point. People need to stop worrying about the power and glory and actually worry about making something with quality, and people wonder why there are never any new servers. If you can't sit back in a lowly developer position only with the powers you need, and make stuff that benefits the server and makes something really great... then you're not going to be able to make it. Servers are meant to be a place to be played, not a kingdom you can rule over, I think people forget that.

How do we know they have the same idea?

"It's a secret to everybody"

What? People post the same ideas as the next server on the forum all the time. The servers that we don't know about have no room to be in my example, because my example was specifically about servers basically doing the exact same thing as the next.

Yeah, but if they learn to make graphics and they think it's better then making levels, they sure as hell don't want to make more levels when they can make graphics.

And I stick to what I said, that's a very dumb logic. Why would you throw away one skill for another? More than one skill is always a good thing. If they don't want to better themselves in more area than one, that's their own loss. If I was a good lawyer and then studied to be a scientist, and found out I enjoyed science better, I think it'd be a bit dumb to just forget all my skills and knowledge of being a lawyer because I'm a scientist now. This isn't an RPG where you can only know one skill at a time.

Like I said, you'll find hundreds of people who can level and perhaps one that can barely get past on a decent level. When I was advertising around for my server for LATs, I got 23 tryouts and 1 made it, only to quit because he wanted to work somewhere that already had more work done and he would be "uber cool and popular."

My examples aren't taking into consideration people who can level, but aren't good at it... but people who actually have a skill at it. I still don't see what this has to do with what I said though. Because GS2 is the newest development thing for Graal, everyone wants to try it out. Sure, not everyone is cut out for it, but there are suddenly a lot of new faces because people found their 'new' thing. If a new editor comes out, a lot more people are going to try it, and perhaps find out they're good at making levels. It's incentive, otherwise people most of the time have no reason to actually try. Not to mention GS2 is object-oriented, which makes it very familiar to those who actually program.

Friends is probably an easier way to get at it; but usually you befriend others playing on Zodiac or helping on the "quests" in Unholy Nation; the majority of those players aren't taking there time in development. I've befriended quite a few whom I play with very occassionally and I've asked about development and none knew they could even make there own server, so I bet I could take the blame for why a few new Dev <Acc> popped up recently and will be hiring for there Era-2.

I don't play Graal at all and I had plenty of friends made just from the forums. If you want friends who develop, be friendly with development. You can't expect to play UN and make lots of friends that develop(but there is a possibility! I'm sure there are a lot of good developers that just don't frequent the forum). I made lots of friends that if I ever needed the help making a server, probably would, by helping them. But the general Graalian is a bit too selfish to be able to actually enjoy this wonderful thing, since all they worry about is themselves. You'll find the more helpful you are to others, the more willing they are to help you.

[Crono]

People don't bother trying to be good LATs anymore because of servers like UN and Zodiac.

[MrAnonymous_P2P]

I am pretty sure anyone can be a LAT, I started out as graphics, worked into LAT then went to Ganis. It is just that if you hire a graphics artist or a NAT or any development position, they can most likely LAT.

[Laek2007]

Originally Posted by MrAnonymous_P2P

I am pretty sure anyone can be a LAT, I started out as graphics, worked into LAT then went to Ganis. It is just that if you hire a graphics artist or a NAT or any development position, they can most likely LAT.

Saying that "Anyone can lat, is like saying that I can GAT because I just made a 1337 picture." Everyone can everything it's just a matter of the quality of the work.

[Codein]

Originally Posted by Laek2007

Attachment 43389

Saying that "Anyone can lat, is like saying that I can GAT because I just made a 1337 picture." Everyone can everything it's just a matter of the quality of the work.

As I said early, Levels Design is the norm for any developer. If you can script and make levels, you can make a decent playing server. If you can make levels and do graphics, you make a decent looking server.

[DustyPorViva]

O.o what's that picture s'posed to be?

[Laek2007]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

O.o what's that picture s'posed to be?

I've no idea to be honest. I just tried to make a point