Classic's New Systems: Opinions?

[jake13jake]

I'm just wondering what everyone thinks of the movement and damage that I've made for Classic.

Also, I would like to apologize for that stack error message when you jumped into lava (fixed). I came on this morning and Storm said something like, "Your movement is seriously bugged. It's causing a lot of stuff including stack errors, and nobody likes the colored ratings or the circle of visibility when you die." So yea, it only took a second to figure out what was causing the client to crash (don't know why nobody could find it in at least five minutes, besides the fact that this movement system is entirely of my efforts).

But yea, I would like some feedback on the changes made, and also any bugs that aren't related to the inability to lift bombs. I'll also be taking feedback online.

Known problems:
1. No AP Bar (coming now that we've made old damage stuff compatible with new damage, old damage wasn't setting the maximum amount of hearts for AP)
2. (obscure) Push/Pull/Grab doesn't seem to always be resetting the player's animation properly. (I asked Storm if he could work on this but I'm probably going to have to)
3. GrowlZ sole assignment for the last few months of rescripting the bomb class isn't done (I'll probably end up doing this).
4. Have to double check on the area the damage class is setting to (I don't know what the deal here is).
5. Moving when you're dead (not so hard to fix, and not abusable).

Okay, so my plan for the coloring of the spar ratings is to have the color express the server spar rank of the player (gold for highest ranks, black for lowest ranks).

The idea behind hiding the playing screen when you die is to prevent people from staying dead in an event for a prolonged period of time. I might also make a timer for this. The circle of visibility idea came to me when people were insisting against not being able to see people laming you (my initial response was that you can hear it). The circle of visibility is reused from the Lantern script (I still hear that it's pointless).

I'm also curious how people will want me to release Spar and PK ranks. The ranks are based on a points system. Points increase for spar by your rank / other's rank when you kill someone. They don't decrease. Currently there's a time factor for PKing, but since points are cumulative anyway I'm going to remove it. I will probably release the first set of ranks on the first of March and reset them monthly from there on. Currently players can't see the ranks until they're published, but I'm hoping to make a building where you can see the top 5 current ranked players in each category. I'd also be interested in making a guild ranking system.

Other things: the nickname system, the camera system, the focus system. Just give some feedback.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

Known problems:
1. No AP Bar (coming now that we've made old damage stuff compatible with new damage, old damage wasn't setting the maximum amount of hearts for AP)
2. (obscure) Push/Pull/Grab doesn't seem to always be resetting the player's animation properly. (I asked Storm if he could work on this but I'm probably going to have to)
3. GrowlZ sole assignment for the last few months of rescripting the bomb class isn't done (I'll probably end up doing this).
4. Have to double check on the area the damage class is setting to (I don't know what the deal here is).
5. Moving when you're dead (not so hard to fix, and not abusable).

Fixed 1, 3, and 4 and 5 sortof.

[newCappa]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

I'm also curious how people will want me to release Spar and PK ranks. The ranks are based on a points system. Points increase for spar by your rank / other's rank when you kill someone. They don't decrease. Currently there's a time factor for PKing, but since points are cumulative anyway I'm going to remove it. I will probably release the first set of ranks on the first of March and reset them monthly from there on. Currently players can't see the ranks until they're published, but I'm hoping to make a building where you can see the top 5 current ranked players in each category. I'd also be interested in making a guild ranking system.

this sounds excllent! i think you could reset them but still keep a list traking the top ranked who wont be reset, like a "year" list.
and now when the hit direction is better i kind of like your system more. its more like the old one.(before server reset)

[Deophite18]

Your new hit detection also broke a lot of stuff in events. It broke CTF most importantly. Maybe you can fix it

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Deophite18

Your new hit detection also broke a lot of stuff in events. It broke CTF and Storm is like NEVER going to fix it. Maybe you can.

A lot of broken things in events was expected, but at least I've fixed everything on that 1-5 list.

I don't know why the hit detection would break CTF. The variables for showing that a player is paused and that player's ratings however, could. I'm waiting for Stefan to give clientside read access to players[i].paused, players[i].rating and players[i].ratingd. That would probably remove any problems with showing the flag, etc.

I'm also talking to Stefan about the hit detection in another thread on the Tech Support forum. The only problem with it is that the event playertouchsme, which I used so that damage areas can exist for a specified amount of time (unlike most serverside damage systems). The problem with the playertouchsme event is that it's not adhering to the player's base (the 2x2 square that's used in wall detection). Instead, playertouchsme is checking the 2x2 area, but shifted one tile in the direction the player's facing. Level links are tested in the same way.

The damage system is not the only thing affected, the Opposite Boots are too, though a little bit more seriously. I scripted the server's movement to be able to handle backwards moving, but seeing as playertouchsme and level links are checking the area in front of the player, it's a bit hard to touch anything when the stuff you would be touching is behind you.

I've decided that it would be unwise to try to modify the damage system to take into account the flaw with playertouchsme unless Stefan goes out and says that he will not change it nor add another event handler that is needed for this to work. If it's not going to change, then damage will have to check a one pixel area after it's initialization. To add, if that's the case, Opposite Boots will never be released as they'd render you much much much less likely to be damaged after the damage field's initialization.

Right now I'm working on the functions for serverside movement. It's a bit more of a challenge. I can easily move the NPC to a wall, but completing the extra movement after that is of a different question (since it's rare that gscript's move function always adheres to the time interval).

I'm also working on rescripting chests, as they've all broken again for some reason. Shouldn't be too hard though.

[Polo]

Originally Posted by Deophite18

Your new hit detection also broke a lot of stuff in events. It broke CTF most importantly. Maybe you can fix it

I just fixed CTF, the problem was really wierd and I'm surprised CTF was ever working before. The problem actually had nothing to do with new movement...

[Deophite18]

Originally Posted by Polo

I just fixed CTF, the problem was really wierd and I'm surprised CTF was ever working before. The problem actually had nothing to do with new movement...

Good news

[Deophite18]

Also, massokre i dunno if the hit detection did this or not but it messed up bombs and arrows again...and now they dont hurt saits at all and bombs cant be thrown through them. I dont think people like that hole that you made either when you die..it is pretty annoying and even causes the spawn time on CTF to be longer. Cant we go back tro how it was.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Deophite18

Also, massokre i dunno if the hit detection did this or not but it messed up bombs and arrows again...and now they dont hurt saits at all and bombs cant be thrown through them. I dont think people like that hole that you made either when you die..it is pretty annoying and even causes the spawn time on CTF to be longer. Cant we go back tro how it was.

The hole doesn't make spawn time longer, I could probably speed it up if you wanted so much.

Update: I shortened it. Was 2.5 seconds (I think), now 1.6 (I think).

Hit Detection for explosions, projectiles (arrows/thrown objects) is still on Master Storm's system. I asked him earlier today if he could rewrite explosions for the new damage system (I'll also have to write in case exceptions for damaging the owner of the explosion), I don't know if he has though.

I would very much like to rewrite the projectile system entirely. The case being that the fewer parameters I have to worry about when using a projectile, the better.

Right now bushes/etc have
carryimg
image
leap type
damage amt
etc.

That's fine, and I have a function for lifting and throwing it too, but after that everything's in Storm's system. I'm also going to work on the lift function a little bit more later on (default values stuff). I don't know how I can test projectiles since the server already handles all of the projectiles. I'll have to talk to storm about it. I also read in one of the later releases of v4 that there is a dontblockprojectiles function/var for the particle engine. I want to take a look at that as well.

As for fixing damage, Stefan was on today and I told him about playertouchsme. He thinks it's something in the movement (I know it's not). I gave him a test level to look at later when he has the time, and hopefully it will be fixed. Anything we would be able to do to change it would have to be done clientside (and that defeats the purpose of using a serverside hit detection in the first place). However, I still feel like adding something like that to allow baddies to be more aesthetic.

[Deophite18]

Ok me and Night tested it, its a little bit faster but the hole is totally messing it up. When you die and respawn if you hit arrows keys you can run around while still deadi think. Unles...I dont know if the spawn is to fast for the black hole or what but as soon as you die and get back up the hole remains for a couple seconds and its really annoying. See for yourself so you know what im talking about. WHY cant we have a NORMAL death. Why does this server have have different everythign from every server.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Deophite18

Ok me and Night tested it, its a little bit faster but the hole is totally messing it up. When you die and respawn if you hit arrows keys you can run around while still deadi think. Unles...I dont know if the spawn is to fast for the black hole or what but as soon as you die and get back up the hole remains for a couple seconds and its really annoying. See for yourself so you know what im talking about. WHY cant we have a NORMAL death. Why does this server have have different everythign from every server.

I've actually been trying to isolate what's causing that. I'll probably rescript the recoil/death system to always run at a 0.05 timeout and let the death continuously update the time left until you can move. If the circle is showing you're still technically considered dead by the server. This bug probably wouldn't be detectable without it. It's nothing the circle itself is causing, but either something else in the system or some level script. Thank you for raising this as a concern (I had thought it was fixed).

In my damage system there is a player.inHDRange(ofAttacker) function. It makes sure the attacker nor the player is dead. If you move around with that black stuff on your screen, then you're invincible and can't hurt anyone (an undead saint with a very dull sword).

Nothing I can fix right now though (week of midterms, the computer I'm on doesn't even have Graal)
-----
OK, FIXED (I hope). Changing it back to a 0.05 timeout was easier than I thought, and now it's easier to change the respawn time too. Less of a headache than that CS Class Hierarchy assignment I just finished, that's for sure.

[ApothiX]

You may want to optimize your Names system a bit. Last time I checked it was running at 50% CPU time, on my 850MHz CPU.

[NeoJenova]

Why is the server named "Classic" one of the least classic servers on the serverlist?

[Deophite18]

Originally Posted by NeoJenova

Why is the server named "Classic" one of the least classic servers on the serverlist?

Amen

[Bl0nkt]

Originally Posted by NeoJenova

Why is the server named "Classic" one of the least classic servers on the serverlist?

Why do you work for UN?

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by NeoJenova

Why is the server named "Classic" one of the least classic servers on the serverlist?

I'd like to know myself, as well. I've created about...3-4 threads trying to figure this out.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by ApothiX

You may want to optimize your Names system a bit. Last time I checked it was running at 50% CPU time, on my 850MHz CPU.

Yea, I optimized that a little bit more. (And there's still just a little bit of room left for more). It was mostly just the not ignoring the nicknames of NPCs that weren't visible to players (I figured findareanpcs helps me deal with lag in this sense quite a bit). I also fixed the scope of showing players a bit, but I'm not really satisfied. Could use findnearestplayers to optimize possibly.

Originally Posted by NeoJenova

Why is the server named "Classic" one of the least classic servers on the serverlist?

This isn't concerning the thread topic. Please save these comments for one of Kevin's threads.

[jake13jake]

Alright. I just reintegrated the movement-specific stuff, so now it's working together quite a bit more smoothly than before.

[Deophite18]

For the love of god PLEASE fix it so that arrows and bombs hurt saints again. Its like they have godmode now. It is so annoying especially in events like skyline or the PIT. I told storm couple weeks ago but he obviously didnt care enough to fix it.. Maybe you can fix it massokre?

[Blitz_Hunter]

Originally Posted by NeoJenova

Why is the server named "Classic" one of the least classic servers on the serverlist?

That's what we all want to know but for some reason no one cares to tell us why.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Deophite18

For the love of god PLEASE fix it so that arrows and bombs hurt saints again. Its like they have godmode now. It is so annoying especially in events like skyline or the PIT. I told storm couple weeks ago but he obviously didnt care enough to fix it.. Maybe you can fix it massokre?

Uh, yea, that damage system is just way too branched, and I wish I could change it to my own (especially for projectiles).

Right now I'm trying to compel Stefan into giving us some new event handlers that we can use for damage. What I've proposed would bring a huuuuge amount of functionality with it.

[Polo]

Originally Posted by Deophite18

For the love of god PLEASE fix it so that arrows and bombs hurt saints again. Its like they have godmode now. It is so annoying especially in events like skyline or the PIT. I told storm couple weeks ago but he obviously didnt care enough to fix it.. Maybe you can fix it massokre?

Fixed.

[Link3001]

While you're at it, remove the fact that you lose AP as a saint when you even hit anyone with your sword. It's highly annoying, because accidents happen.

[Malinko]

I'm still wondering the reasoning behind re-scripting current things that are functional. Sure, it would be better in some little detail, though I think the Classic players wish to just play the world that was once online. So just add the old stuff, make it with the new scripting engine, as a conversion. It's that simple. That's what the players want, as being staff there, give it to them. Stop wasting time.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Malinko

I'm still wondering the reasoning behind re-scripting current things that are functional. Sure, it would be better in some little detail, though I think the Classic players wish to just play the world that was once online. So just add the old stuff, make it with the new scripting engine, as a conversion. It's that simple. That's what the players want, as being staff there, give it to them. Stop wasting time.

Yea, I'm pretty much doing that. It's the power of the new systems that enables us to rescript things without any of the old bugs, with new features, and a lot more efficient code (Opposite Boots, Gravity Boots, etc). The hardest things to rescript are things that don't have a defined path (ie Knife of Judgement). I could possibly go crazy on a new version of the mace though, when I think about it (though damage will never be so good unless Stefan adds the event handlers I suggested into gscript).

Originally Posted by Link3001

While you're at it, remove the fact that you lose AP as a saint when you even hit anyone with your sword. It's highly annoying, because accidents happen.

Saints would just be laming tools if they didn't lose AP when they hit someone, and we're trying to promote a more interactive playing environment :P.

[Link3001]

It's hard enough to gain and maintain 100 AP with nothing on the server anyways.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Link3001

It's hard enough to gain and maintain 100 AP with nothing on the server anyways.

Nothing on the server? Are you serious?

[Deophite18]

Originally Posted by Polo

Fixed.

Hooray!

[Crono]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

Nothing on the server? Are you serious?

Events and one or two quests. What else is there to do?

[-Ching]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Events and one or two quests. What else is there to do?

Sounds like Graal to me

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Events and one or two quests. What else is there to do?

Chill out and talk to friends and do stupid things with your character. Spar, PK, have a guild war. Apply for LAT to help make the quests.

[Malinko]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

Chill out and talk to friends and do stupid things with your character. Spar, PK, have a guild war. Apply for LAT to help make the quests.

Seems like all the other worlds, but others have a lot more.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Malinko

Seems like all the other worlds, but others have a lot more.

Yea, but we're higher quality.

[Blitz_Hunter]

classic isn't "classic" anymore.

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

Yea, but we're higher quality.

Actually, no. The quality of the server is subpar at best.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

Chill out and talk to friends and do stupid things with your character. Spar, PK, have a guild war. Apply for LAT to help make the quests.

I can do that on any server. I barely have friends on classic because 3/4 of the players are elitist ****s who have their own circle and ignore everyone else.

The whole point was if you -dont- PK what would you do, so guild war and pk are out of to-do's, I can spar anywhere else and I don't even like sparring with classic's system.

I don't want to apply for LAT :'(

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Gerami

I can do that on any server. I barely have friends on classic because 3/4 of the players are elitist ****s who have their own circle and ignore everyone else.

1/5 are elitists.
3/5 are silly newbies.
You could join the rest. :)

[-Ching]

Originally Posted by Gerami

I can do that on any server. I barely have friends on classic because 3/4 of the players are elitist ****s who have their own circle and ignore everyone else.

Like who? I haven't met anyone like that on Classic

[Vintersorg]

Originally Posted by Malinko

Hi!

[Malinko]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

Yea, but we're higher quality.

That's an opinion?