[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Am I the fellow that starting whining about Gryf baselessly?

You would be the hypocrite that started whining about me baselessly, and then espoused a philosophy of non-intervention that you clearly don't follow.

since you like to play both debator and moderator I suppose that means I am always wrong

Haha, man, do you even read your own posts?

Yet, his character was started way back on 2k1

Yes. So? I'm expected to forgive him because he's been doing this for a while?

Neither of us can measure the effect that a single person has. It's utterly impossible. How can you realistically say that Gryffon's poor roleplaying practices haven't had a negative influence on other people?

Do you have have some special insight to share on how it is actually relevant or will you just choose not to quote and respond to this part?

Pretty interesting accusation, coming from you. You've made posts in this threads that don't quote anything I've written, or quote only a single paragraph. I don't think you can suggest that I do the same without giving us an example, especially since I have kind of a reputation for doing the opposite.

Interesting, what would you consider to be within the realm of possibility that would result in you loosing a debate?

Huh? Where did this come from?

That is a great example of irresponsible behavior, and I would be greviously in error if I was to endorse that sort of conduct, however you could not have selected a more extreeme and poor example

And, true to form, that's all you say. No explanation of how the two situations are incongruent, no logical analyses, no highlighted errors. Just a hefty "YOUR EXAMPLE SUCKS".

I wouldn't doubt it if he's rethinking the quality of that story

Well, he hasn't posted anything new. If he'd designed a new backstory, wouldn't he have amended his thread by now?

Was he ever forced to change it? That's the kind of regulation I'm talking about.

but regardless I am sure the subsequent posts to that story would not encourage the 'rampant' use of obscure races

Precisely three people objected to his story. Only one of them actually plays GK on a regular basis. I do not think this supports your point.

Right, he's damaging the community. Didn't you just jump down my throat a few posts ago for daring to allege that you said he was damaging the community?

Carefully consider the following strings of characters:

"contributing to a disruptive tendency"
"damaging the server"

The words are not the same. They are different words. It is prudent at this point to consider whether the meanings might be different, too!

To argue or deny that he is actively damaging the server would take statistics that neither of us can produce without travelling into parallel dimensions with comprehensive surveys. Special effects, wacky hijinks, I know. It'd be awesome. But it's beyond our means.

What I can say is that his actions have a distinct potential for breaking cohesion on the server. That's it. Is he harming it? Probably, yes. But I won't assert that he definitely is because I don't have the wormhole generator. Same as I won't assert that firing my revolver is the same as killing somebody.

Whereas antagonists don't? I don't think anyone wants to be 'the' protagonist

1. Do you think that those are the only two options? Protagonist and antagonist? This says more about you than it does about Gryffon.
2. Judging by the elaborate nature of his backstory - the brotherly conflicts, the torturous past, the redemption, the transformation, etc - it seems to me that he very much wants to be the protagonist. It's the kind of character you might write a book about. It's not the kind of character you should play in an MMORPG.

I never doubted your capacity to be opinionated, and I never said as such. However when you say are not arguing that gryffon is damaging the community when you are arguing just that among other opinons you hold, that is where I have a problem with it

I have already dismissed this misconception in this post (and my previous few, too). If you are still confused, ask a dictionary for the difference between 'potentiality' and 'actuality'.

The contradictions are in that you flip flop around on the effects it has and whether Gryffon and Shawn are causing any problems

No, you are merely twisting my words to make them seem disharmonious. But whatever, I've already covered that above.

Incidentally, I don't particularly object to Shawn's character concept and I don't think I ever said otherwise. He may have invented a new race, but he did it in a humble, reasonable manner. Being a fox-person isn't particularly glamorous.

Certianly. However, it has never been an issue with player created races

Assertion.

Right, and we are powerless to say 'you know that really doesn't work' - as if some judge will rule that if gryf did something now we have to let dumb things happen too because they both involved a new race

Well, yeah. Because there aren't any active judges and there isn't any real regulation. You make the insane assumption that kingdoms are led and populated by reasonable people. If that were the case, what would be the source of all those problems you earlier refused to name?

I always consider the other side of an argument, care to demonstrate where I don't?

The whole thread, basically. Even now you're missing the point, which just strengthens my accusation. You gave a tirade of unsupported insults and assertions about my actions in the thread. I immediately gave an equivalent, to demonstrate that such tactics don't prove anything; they work equally well for either party. Evidently this lesson flew straight over your head, for now you are back to demand that I provide proof where you did not!

I break down your arguments and refute them regularily

No! I break down your arguments and refute them super-regularly!!

PLEASE tell me you are learning!

I know Gryf is a good roleplayer, and I have a lot of experience with shawn about his race and can attest, as can all of Dustari and most of the RP community I am sure, that his race and character have greatly improved GK and been a great compliment to roleplaying in kingdoms

As was already said, I don't particularly oppose Shawn's choice of race. But that's all besides the point. Would Gryffon cease to be a "good roleplayer" if he made a less self-indulgent character?

you feel totally justified in claiming that we are all so generic that the differences between our community and the ones you do frequent are no larger than if you do or do not roleplay in a purple hat

Wow, maybe you have been listening! But here's the second half of that synopsis: You haven't yet shown that I'm wrong.

Humans are humans. There are universal factors - rules that apply regardless of the minute specifics of the group. The fact is that egocentric roleplaying is as bad in your world as it is in mine, and claiming refuge because of some irrelevant distinctions is no less ridiculous than dismissing somebody's opinion based on their preference of hat.