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-   -   Playerworld Previews (https://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87840)

Bell 09-09-2009 07:32 PM

Playerworld Previews
 
It's been brought to the Playerworld Administration's attention that Under Construction servers are struggling to find quality developers. The biggest cause of this problem is the fact that their servers are 'unseen', and nobody is dropping by to see if their interests are piqued as they're not even aware of the server existing.

To this problem, we have devised a 'shot in the arm' for UC servers that have a decent amount of the foundations in place, but don't have the power to push it along without a little help from some quality, reliable developers. For a period of approximately 30 days, these selected UC servers will be placed on the Hosted list under what will be known as Preview status. What this means is that in the Server Lister, each selected server will carry the categorical word Preview with them for the entire 30 days. One or two servers will be selected at a time for this status.

The most obvious difference between a Preview server and a Hosted server is mainly going to be the fact that the Preview servers will likely be much less developed than a Hosted server, and are specially targeted at the development community. What this hopes to achieve is for some quality developers with a little extra time on their hands to notice these hidden servers, and to possibly find one (or more) of the Preview servers interesting enough, as well as worth their time and skills, to lend a hand to.
We also hope to see more servers applying to be Hosted, and this will hopefully give a few servers the help they need to see that start happening.

Note: It must be noted that this is not a "I bought a new server, I need staff, I'll apply" scenario. This will only be offered to servers that have a solid direction, have the foundations at their fingertips, and just need help to execute it all. To put it another way- new, incoming staff members should have almost everything at their disposal already (Eg: LAT's should have an already created tileset to work with), and should know exactly what they're doing once they're doing it without having to ask clarification all the time.

APPLYING
If you believe your server has a solid sense of direction, is lacking productivity in development, and you are looking to hire (more) staff to get things back off the ground, then you're exactly who we're looking for and we would like to place your server under Preview status.

Contact the PWA through support at http://support.graalonline.com, Department
Playerworlds - Classic/Hosted Tab Inspection, Subject Preview Inspection and let us know why you believe your server needs a bit of help. Or through Global Link on the forums. You should include absolutely everything you're advertising such as positions available, the theme and direction your server is taking, and so on.
This information is needed as there will be a news release prior to your arrival on Hosted.

You will be notified through support as to what date your server will go on tab a week or two in advance.

-------
Why should non-developmental entities care?
With the increase in development on these servers, some may actually end up on the Hosted list further down the track so for the average player, this provides the opportunity to preview some of the servers making headway behind the scenes that could fast end up becoming one of your favourite servers.

On this note we have decided to use xXziroXx's server Maloria to show you an example of what you can expect with this program.

Crono 09-09-2009 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell (Post 1522031)
On this note we have decided to use xXziroXx's server Maloria to show you an example of what you can expect with this program.

I log on, observer mode. Tileset is a bit funny, reconnect? Ok!
I log on, observer mode. Wait it out, oh look it reconnected me.
I log on, observer mode. Wait it out, select my class/nation/item. Oh look it reconnected me.
I log on, observer mode. Wait it out, finally logged in!

Ugh, gotta love observer mode!

Spark910 09-09-2009 08:05 PM

This is a nice idea :D

Although I've not paid too much attention these past years:
1) Why are there no other servers on the hosted list?
2) What is observer mode?

DustyPorViva 09-09-2009 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spark910 (Post 1522038)
2) What is observer mode?

They took ghost mode, baked it at 350 for 30 minutes and got Gaming Hell.

Crono 09-09-2009 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spark910 (Post 1522038)
2) What is observer mode?

Trial accounts all have a limited amount of time to run around and play before they enter observer mode. They have to wait a little bit before they are allowed back on. Classic accounts on dev servers will be treated as trial accounts.

Sure makes me want to develop!

Jimbo33 09-09-2009 08:50 PM

When is this gonna happen? I would like to apply but I don't have enough content yet, but I have a solid built and I know my server could make it big, but just not NOW. :(

LordSquirt 09-09-2009 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1522036)
I log on, observer mode. Tileset is a bit funny, reconnect? Ok!
I log on, observer mode. Wait it out, oh look it reconnected me.
I log on, observer mode. Wait it out, select my class/nation/item. Oh look it reconnected me.
I log on, observer mode. Wait it out, finally logged in!

Ugh, gotta love observer mode!

I know I feel the same way, I was just tired of waiting and doing nothing that I decided to just log off.

MysticX2X 09-09-2009 09:15 PM

Whats the point of this if Classic Accounts can't help.

Cloven 09-09-2009 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1522049)
Whats the point of this if Classic Accounts can't help.

This^.

Doesn't exactly seem like a shot in the arm so much as does a punch in the face to classic accounts. :oo:

Vima 09-09-2009 10:29 PM

This is a great idea!! I really appreciate that Bell is trying to help the Graal Community, constantly comming up with new ideas :]

Why not make the text in bold?
Like:
Preview : Maloria and a diffrent icon?

cbk1994 09-10-2009 01:08 AM

Why exactly is it named "Preview: xxxx"? It would look so much better if you made another "tab".

papajchris 09-10-2009 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vima (Post 1522067)
This is a great idea!! I really appreciate that Bell is trying to help the Graal Community, constantly comming up with new ideas :]

I agree Bell is being an awesome PWA, infact the others seem to be quite quiet lately. Now its in the hands of Stefan, he needs to decide whether or not to drop observer mode and do it correctly.

TSAdmin 09-10-2009 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994 (Post 1522091)
Why exactly is it named "Preview: xxxx"? It would look so much better if you made another "tab".

I think you already know the reason behind this. There is no such thing as a "Preview" tab, and how long would we have to wait before such a thing could be arranged, keeping in mind that when we change a server from one medium to another, it is all in a server name change?

EG: When we change the name of a UC server, we have to make sure the new name we enter is preceded by the letter U, such as U Era Dev. People will only see Era Dev, but the U holds significance.

So then you'd have to wait for say Stefan to alter the global command, the Login stuff and so forth.

That is why it is just appended with "Preview".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vima
This is a great idea!! I really appreciate that Bell is trying to help the Graal Community, constantly comming up with new ideas :]

Why not make the text in bold?
Like:
Preview : Maloria and a diffrent icon?

Again, you'd need Stefan to control this function of display on the Login server. But for Bolding of certain servers doesn't seem worth the effort. They're still pretty definitively distinguishable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticX2X
Whats the point of this if Classic Accounts can't help.

The point is already described clearly, please read carefully. It's not aimed at Classic accounts, Gold accounts, or any account at all. It's directly aimed at Developers. Now, to be a developer (IE: Have RC on ANY server), you would already have a Gold subscription as Gold is required to use RC. That is why there'd be no sense at aiming it at the status of one's subscription.

The player side of it is just for peek's. Go in, check around, see if you like it, log off, come back at a later time or date and peek at what's been done in the time you've been away, and see if there's been progress made (Which would indicate that they succeeded in finding new, motivated development staff whilst being on Preview).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spark910
This is a nice idea

Although I've not paid too much attention these past years:
1) Why are there no other servers on the hosted list?
2) What is observer mode?

1) A few places were unable to keep up with their subscription, such as AEON whose owner had to move around IRL a bit. Once their subscription is renewed, they should reappear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo33
When is this gonna happen? I would like to apply but I don't have enough content yet, but I have a solid built and I know my server could make it big, but just not NOW.

I will have to discuss that with Bell. Originally, I was going to be doing this while Bell was away over the weekend but as the bulk of you know, the forums broke/went down from around Friday night. Upon her return, whether she noticed the recent problems and the "Forums Repaired" thread or not, she went ahead and made this thread to get things on the roll.

Since it's out there already though, I figure it'd be safe to say that it's pretty much underway and we'll make an official announcement to call for applications very shortly.

Matt 09-10-2009 03:06 AM

Nice idea. :)

Hiro 09-10-2009 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSAdmin (Post 1522103)
The point is already described clearly, please read carefully. It's not aimed at Classic accounts, Gold accounts, or any account at all. It's directly aimed at Developers. Now, to be a developer (IE: Have RC on ANY server), you would already have a Gold subscription as Gold is required to use RC. That is why there'd be no sense at aiming it at the status of one's subscription.

that isn't even a reason, that's just saying "we're just not going to aim at account status for the sake of not doing so, because developers will OBVIOUSLY have gold"

TSAdmin 09-10-2009 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1522116)
that isn't even a reason, that's just saying "we're just not going to aim at account status for the sake of not doing so, because developers will OBVIOUSLY have gold"

My response was to MysticX2X about why Classic accounts can't help. Maybe this will be a more suitable response though:

The point of this idea does not surround the debate being put forward to Stefan about Classic accounts not being able to use RC. The point of this idea is to attract the attention of Developers interested in working on some of these UC servers that just need a little bit of professional and quality-style help. We cannot change Stefan's mind about "Classic accounts and RC", that is totally up to him, but we as the PWA can at least give some servers a fair go at making their way toward the Hosted tab by allowing them the opportunity to attract these quality developers.

Hiro 09-10-2009 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSAdmin (Post 1522117)
My response was to MysticX2X about why Classic accounts can't help. Maybe this will be a more suitable response though:

The point of this idea does not surround the debate being put forward to Stefan about Classic accounts not being able to use RC. The point of this idea is to attract the attention of Developers interested in working on some of these UC servers that just need a little bit of professional and quality-style help. We cannot change Stefan's mind about "Classic accounts and RC", that is totally up to him, but we as the PWA can at least give some servers a fair go at making their way toward the Hosted tab by allowing them the opportunity to attract these quality developers.

while true, it still doesn't change what i posted

also, it's vague just how developed these servers have to be. does it have to have material content to show off or just the bare bones of development with everything planned out only lacking developers?

for example, if you have a generated OW, with little to no detail on the map, and you need LATs, does this count as a valid reason to be on the preview list? or what if you need multiple staff positions filled for various things, and you only have one thing to show off - it's hard to show people what's involved with the server by a preview alone in that sort of position

MysticX2X 09-10-2009 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSAdmin (Post 1522103)
The point is already described clearly, please read carefully. It's not aimed at Classic accounts, Gold accounts, or any account at all. It's directly aimed at Developers. Now, to be a developer (IE: Have RC on ANY server), you would already have a Gold subscription as Gold is required to use RC. That is why there'd be no sense at aiming it at the status of one's subscription.

No, I know your guys reasoning. I Just don't see any true point behind this. Most developers are aware of potential UC servers, it's having to buy gold that is the problem that servers can't finish.

DuBsTeRmAn 09-10-2009 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSAdmin (Post 1522103)
I think you already know the reason behind this. There is no such thing as a "Preview" tab, and how long would we have to wait before such a thing could be arranged, keeping in mind that when we change a server from one medium to another, it is all in a server name change?

Then make one, It would be better having a Tab for it.. This way people see it faster and it would help better

Bell 09-10-2009 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1522152)
No, I know your guys reasoning. I Just don't see any true point behind this. Most developers are aware of potential UC servers, it's having to buy gold that is the problem that servers can't finish.

This is where your information is not exactly correct. We are all asked by developers what type of server [insert servername here] is. We believe that by doing this, it will not only encourage server renters to try to improve the quality of their servers to beat out the other guy for better staff. But will also give give interested developers something to actually look at and decide for themselves if they feel said server is something they would like to participate in.

As far as the accounts status goes. This is not the thread for that. That is a separate issue that has nothing to do with the PWA and what we are trying to achieve here. You are not the first to complain nor will you be the last. We cannot immediately affect that change and its a battle we've not yet chosen to fight. Random rants about it will do nothing to cause change. It usually has the opposite affect and does little more than label you as a troublemaker. Another time, another place, just not here and now.

Bell 09-10-2009 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuBsTeRmAn (Post 1522154)
Then make one, It would be better having a Tab for it.. This way people see it faster and it would help better

I believe TSA addressed this already. We cannot make one and chose to not wait until Stefan could find the time to make one. Its not exactly a high priority. Preview: takes 2 seconds, tabs can take weeks.

DuBsTeRmAn 09-10-2009 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell (Post 1522156)
I believe TSA addressed this already. We cannot make one and chose to not wait until Stefan could find the time to make one. Its not exactly a high priority. Preview: takes 2 seconds, tabs can take weeks.

I don't want to be mean, But why wait for Stefan? Can't you do it yourself..? ;o

I mean, You are the PWA Admin and i think you should be able to do these things yourself.. ;p

Bell 09-10-2009 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuBsTeRmAn (Post 1522157)
I don't want to be mean, But why wait for Stefan? Can't you do it yourself..? ;o

I mean, You are the PWA Admin and i think you should be able to do these things yourself.. ;p

You give me too much credit, its not within my rights and abilities.

DustyPorViva 09-10-2009 05:52 PM

So what exactly is this? It kind of seems like the end-effect is basically what hosted servers were?

fowlplay4 09-10-2009 06:14 PM

I guess it's just 30 day Hosted status, try and find developers, then back to the unlisted.

xXziroXx 09-10-2009 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1522036)
I log on, observer mode. Tileset is a bit funny, reconnect? Ok!
I log on, observer mode. Wait it out, oh look it reconnected me.
I log on, observer mode. Wait it out, select my class/nation/item. Oh look it reconnected me.
I log on, observer mode. Wait it out, finally logged in!

Ugh, gotta love observer mode!

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordSquirt (Post 1522047)
I know I feel the same way, I was just tired of waiting and doing nothing that I decided to just log off.

Sorry about that! Was an older system I've used since the days of Mythic Legends to allow mass-resets easily whenever system changes required it. I took the time to rewrite it after realizing how frustrating it is in combination with Observer Mode, and you shouldn't encounter anything on the server that forces you to reconnect now.

Minor change, but surely something that'll make people a lot less frustrated. :)

Bell 09-10-2009 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva (Post 1522171)
So what exactly is this? It kind of seems like the end-effect is basically what hosted servers were?

Hosted servers have to be more complete. They require working systems and an hour or two of gameplay. They must show server direction and have its key elements in working order as well as full staffing available. Preview servers do not require this. They need to show direction and have basic systems in place but nothing has to be completed to a point that is playable for long periods of time. They also don't require the staffing, a basic development team that can also answer questions related to the server and take reports on bugs is sufficient.

DustyPorViva 09-10-2009 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell (Post 1522184)
Hosted servers have to be more complete. They require working systems and an hour or two of gameplay. They must show server direction and have its key elements in working order as well as full staffing available. Preview servers do not require this. They need to show direction and have basic systems in place but nothing has to be completed to a point that is playable for long periods of time. They also don't require the staffing, a basic development team that can also answer questions related to the server and take reports on bugs is sufficient.

Ah, so it's a preview?

Gambet 09-10-2009 07:08 PM

I don't know why there's so much hostility, I think it's a pretty good idea. Would be good if you guys got Stefan to eventually add a preview tab and for now just use the Preview: prefix, but hopefully you will not just settle with that and never look into getting it officially implemented (because it should be).

Nice work. :)

Pelikano 09-10-2009 07:11 PM

Maloria? Wasn't Ziro's deadline like 2 months, which ended about 512 years 5 months 29 days 3 hours 23 minutes and 53 seconds ago?

Pelikano 09-10-2009 07:12 PM

now 54 secs btw.

xXziroXx 09-10-2009 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelikano (Post 1522192)
Maloria? Wasn't Ziro's deadline like 2 months, which ended about 512 years 5 months 29 days 3 hours 23 minutes and 53 seconds ago?

My "deadline" was to have it playable enough to be able to at least do something in 2 months, which I was able to complete without trouble.

If you expect a lot of quality gameplay content you'll have to either sit back and watch the progress, or actually lend a hand. I'm not about to release a half-assed server or skip things to have it released faster, there's no point in ruining Maloria's reputation like that.

LordSquirt 09-10-2009 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx (Post 1522182)
Sorry about that! Was an older system I've used since the days of Mythic Legends to allow mass-resets easily whenever system changes required it. I took the time to rewrote it after realizing how frustrating it is in combination with Observer Mode, and you shouldn't encounter anything on the server that forces you to reconnect now.

Minor change, but surely something that'll make people a lot less frustrated. :)

Thanks for fixing it :)

Bell 09-10-2009 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva (Post 1522188)
Ah, so it's a preview?

Thats what the title says!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambet (Post 1522189)
I don't know why there's so much hostility, I think it's a pretty good idea. Would be good if you guys got Stefan to eventually add a preview tab and for now just use the Preview: prefix, but hopefully you will not just settle with that and never look into getting it officially implemented (because it should be).

Nice work. :)

TSA and Xor will be handling the applications and acceptance for the preview servers. If there is enough of them out there to warrant it then we'll ask Stefan about getting a separate tab. If this turns out to only be the occasional server though that actually applies and qualifies then I really see no need for a special tab. Hoping for the former though.

Hiro 09-11-2009 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell (Post 1522155)
This is where your information is not exactly correct. We are all asked by developers what type of server [insert servername here] is. We believe that by doing this, it will not only encourage server renters to try to improve the quality of their servers to beat out the other guy for better staff. But will also give give interested developers something to actually look at and decide for themselves if they feel said server is something they would like to participate in.

As far as the accounts status goes. This is not the thread for that. That is a separate issue that has nothing to do with the PWA and what we are trying to achieve here. You are not the first to complain nor will you be the last. We cannot immediately affect that change and its a battle we've not yet chosen to fight. Random rants about it will do nothing to cause change. It usually has the opposite affect and does little more than label you as a troublemaker. Another time, another place, just not here and now.

and that's why nothing ever gets done, people with power positions such as yourself having either indifferent or nonparticipating opinions about player-important problems within the game. do you not see that if you guys spoke up as we do, that a lot more would get done, instead of nothing getting done?

also my question still stands from the former post and pertains to how exactly we go about explaining a server's description in terms of how much development has been achieved

DuBsTeRmAn 09-11-2009 01:03 PM

Well, I can't wait to see how this will work out..

Offtopic:
xXziroXx, Your signature is wrong spelled..? Or not?
Isn't it: Maloria has 5 Players (Have>Has)

xXziroXx 09-11-2009 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuBsTeRmAn (Post 1522312)
Offtopic:
xXziroXx, Your signature is wrong spelled..? Or not?
Isn't it: Maloria has 5 Players (Have>Has)

Maloria is third person, so yes, you're correct. :)


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