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-   -   Your Idea to fix Eras Economy. (https://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84074)

Nataxo 02-07-2009 06:21 PM

Your Idea to fix Eras Economy.
 
Which is it?

BlueMelon 02-07-2009 07:45 PM

I think they are doing a pretty nice job ATm

deathbarrier99 02-07-2009 08:08 PM

Reset. Reset. Reset. Reset.

















Reset.

Crono 02-07-2009 08:17 PM

Fixing it is easy, prevention is a different story.

Shotoo2 02-07-2009 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1463983)
Fixing it is easy, prevention is a different story.

Prevention measures followed by a reset is the best way to ensure a stable economy.

Crono 02-07-2009 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shotoo2 (Post 1463998)
Prevention measures followed by a reset is the best way to ensure a stable economy.

Yep. :)

DarkRenji 02-07-2009 08:54 PM

After the reset im going to get people from zodiac to help me dig a ****load of money up.

Shotoo2 02-07-2009 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkRenji (Post 1464003)
After the reset im going to get people from zodiac to help me dig a ****load of money up.

See, there's something to take into account for prevention measures. :D

Freudian_slip 02-07-2009 09:17 PM

I think we should spawn a couple billion dollars and give it to failing businesses just like Obama! Yay for change!
/end sarcasm

Crono 02-07-2009 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freudian_slip (Post 1464011)
I think we should spawn a couple billion dollars and give it to failing businesses just like Obama! Yay for change!
/end sarcasm

Your sarcasm aside, Era's problem isn't failing businesses now is it? :asleep:

Freudian_slip 02-07-2009 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1464016)
Your sarcasm aside, Era's problem isn't failing businesses now is it? :asleep:

No, but large piles of money coming out of thin air is.
Sounds pretty familiar to me when you print billions of dollars out of no where.

Anyway, it was a joke, shush.

Crono 02-07-2009 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freudian_slip (Post 1464018)
No, but large piles of money coming out of thin air is.
Sounds pretty familiar to me when you print billions of dollars out of no where.

;)

Quote:

Anyway, it was a joke, shush.
I know, silly. :redface:

Shotoo2 02-07-2009 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freudian_slip (Post 1464018)
No, but large piles of money coming out of thin air is.
Sounds pretty familiar to me when you print billions of dollars out of no where.

Anyway, it was a joke, shush.

The U.S. isn't printing billions of dollars out of nowhere for the stimulus package.
There's a thread for discussion about that in the NGRT anyway.

deathbarrier99 02-07-2009 10:26 PM

Reset.

salesman 02-07-2009 10:30 PM

You can't just reset without fixing what screwed everything up to begin with, or it will just happen again

kia345 02-07-2009 11:41 PM

Here's 3 "plans" I had awhile ago, did some editing and made them a package deal.:

Quit thinking about money circulating. A 'real' economy would just make Era more lopsided than it already is.

I don't have any knowledge of the 'economic situation' that Era is in now. But what I do know is, you keep resetting because of the **** economy. You realize the economy is **** and needs to be fixed, so you step back, eye it a bit, and then change a tire, when in reality, the problem isn't the tire, but you have a large, dead animal in the engine. Consider this an interpretation of Era from the view of a bystander and total stranger who can only make inferences.

This 'realistic' economy on Era, where the money actually 'exists' is one of the problems with Era. You're trying to have money actually circulate and exist among players. Now tell me, if the money's going to flowing around, how is anything going to balanced (financially)? The money 'physically' existing (or as physically as it can in an online game) is part of the reason the economy gets so stretched between 'dirt poor collecting shells' and rich beyond your wildest dreams.

A possible fix?

Method A is well rounded and awesome, I tried to cover everything.

B and C are minor, but still would heavily impact the economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Method A
Eliminate the 'real' economy. Especially the ATMs. God yes, the ATMs need to go. And player-run businesses. Mostly player-run businesses. Players are still able to buy and sell items, but that can't buy and sell on a mass market as they can now. That is the main anchor weighing down Era's economy. How so? You have people with money, and people without it. The ones with money are continuously raking it in via business, and then buying expensive guns, and then selling them, raking in more money. Meanwhile, the people giving them the money, are gradually becoming poorer, even though they could turn back in resell the gun as well. Why do they get poorer? Because to make money off reselling that gun, they probably have to scam. If that person doesn't directly become poorer, than the poor sap who overpaid for his gun did.

Money exists in Era, and that is a problem. Why not have more NPC owned shops? Every gun should be obtainable in game, easily accessible to players. sure, they can have a steep price tag, but in the end, if you have money, you can get guns.

Money should not be able to be stored in ATMs. All that does is keeps it from being used to buy things, which is the ultimate purpose of the money. Players are required to carry their massive fortunes on them, but reduce the amount of cash that drops. Why not, say $50 per death, +$100 for every $1000 you have? And money "fades" away if not picked up in "X" amount of seconds. Money does not become a permanent also existent item.

You can also make money via conventional way, selling shells, flowers, and now, selling guns to NPC shops for preset prices. The value should be $1000~ less than what the gun is actually worth, to prevent people from just buying/selling to NPCs all the time.

Now let's back away from money existing. Let's talk guns. Era's current shops, where there's a set quantity of guns that must be restocked? That is the biggest bull**** ever. I can see there being a set of "4 times Era's average playercount, divided the level (how kick ass it is) of the gun" of each gun in the NPC shops this plan uses. To prevent buying out shops, you can purchase 5 of the same types of guns per day. Ammo follows the same suit, albeit with bigger numbers. Shops restock every 4 days, by themselves, requiring no player interference.

Ok, so now, if this was actually implemented, we have "infinite guns" released into Era, no longer creating a gap of players with connections to good weapons, and those without, but still gives people an obligation to make money to get said guns. Money is also infinite, as it can be easily received from NPC shops, or other players dead or the ground, or trading etc.

But with this, Era now needs more ways to make money. Player-run shops are the last thing Era needs, forget about them. Taxi service for NPCs? Speed of the trip = +$, crashes = -$? Run errands for the NPC-owned shops, such as collecting minerals for the gun shop (the minerals are not used by the shop, their only purpose is to help people make money)? Trash picking could still work, why not even hire a weekly "street sweeper" to drive the truck around town for decent cash? The person who went last cannot go again for 3 weeks. Collecting supplies for other NPC shops?

Now, this wouldn't be a cureall for Era and its economy, but I fail to see how it could make it any worse.

In closing: Having a "real-world economy" is the reason Era's economy keeps sucking and having to reset. Realistic economies = bad.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Method B
Middle Man - Guns can NOT be made by any random person working for any random business

Production Plants (there needs to be 2 of these, managed by different people):
Guns are craftable at 'production plants' using various items. Production Plants are not run by everyday players, but are 'official' and managed by one person with several workers. The manager pays the people to build the guns using supplies that they obtain by mining, buying, I don't care. The guns they build never physically 'exist' though, and are instead listed by a counter: (Gun: amount). The Plant does NOT sell individual guns. All of the above steps may apply to ammo too. Plants also take special "requests" to build gang guns, and can only sell "placeholder amounts" of guns and ammo to shops and gangs, not individual players.

Shops (5~ of these):
Shops do not craft guns. I don't know whose idea this was on Era, but it sucks. Shops are not set to certain list of guns they can sell, instead being able to stock x amount of items y through z. Instead of these shops hiring people to build guns, they negotiate costs with the Production Plants for amounts of guns. There is no set price, and they are expected to buy in bulk. Once again, the gun does not physically exist, it is merely subtracted from the Plant's counter and added to the Shop's (Gun: amount: price). This will allow for more competition among business.

Guns do not exist until purchased by players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Method C
Shopping Channel - Guns are not built, crafting them in general is a stupid idea

There is 'limitless' supply of guns in shops, but they are not available for purchase until the manager approves it. Shops can be more numerous and can be run by a single person (player run shops weeee). The owner simply restockes by buying x amount of y for their shop from a nonexistent 'shopping channel', and people buy them from the shop. Yet again, guns do not exist until purchase. Guns are cheaper to buy for the shop than a person buying FROM the shop.


salesman 02-07-2009 11:59 PM

Yes, getting rid of player-run businesses and the "realistic economy" would help a lot, but they've become a major part of Era, and just getting rid of them would probably do more damage than good. There's a LOT of players who do nothing but spend their time participating in the economy, so doing this would probably make them quit.

EDIT: I used to be one of them ("salesman" haha)

kia345 02-08-2009 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman (Post 1464049)
Yes, getting rid of player-run businesses and the "realistic economy" would help a lot, but they've become a major part of Era, and just getting rid of them would probably do more damage than good. There's a LOT of players who do nothing but spend their time participating in the economy, so doing this would probably make them quit.

If ****ty gameplay has become a part of Era too important to get rid of, then there's no fixing Era's economy, all you can do slow it down by resetting every few years.

Nataxo 02-08-2009 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman (Post 1464049)
Yes, getting rid of player-run businesses and the "realistic economy" would help a lot, but they've become a major part of Era, and just getting rid of them would probably do more damage than good. There's a LOT of players who do nothing but spend their time participating in the economy, so doing this would probably make them quit.

EDIT: I used to be one of them ("salesman" haha)

Era would be totally unknown for me :[

Frankie 02-08-2009 12:10 AM

Era needs more disposable goods for people to spend their money on.

If someone spends 20k on a gun, that money is technically removed from the economy, but the gun is brought into the economy at a value of 20k. If you think about it, that's not really doing anything to the economy. You may think it's good because money is being removed but nobody thinks outside the box here.

Now lets say someone spends 20k on a bunch of grenades. The money is removed from the economy, and the grenades are at a value of 20k. Grenades aren't durable goods like guns are. You can use a gun over and over but once you use all your grenades they're gone for good.

Pyro Tech is extremely popular. People buyout that place all the time. It's taking a lot of money out of the economy without providing items that will last forever. Unfortunately, the business is player owned so only a partial amount of money is being taken out of the economy.

More things need to be thought of that will be popular, but at the same time something that's disposable. We already have food, ammo, and explosives, but most of it goes right back into the player's pockets since the businesses are player owned.

Nataxo 02-08-2009 12:17 AM

Era News is also a victim of this... the money you spent to the newspaper doesnt get to me, it goes straight to the tax safe lol

Shotoo2 02-08-2009 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman (Post 1464049)
Yes, getting rid of player-run businesses and the "realistic economy" would help a lot, but they've become a major part of Era, and just getting rid of them would probably do more damage than good. There's a LOT of players who do nothing but spend their time participating in the economy, so doing this would probably make them quit.

EDIT: I used to be one of them ("salesman" haha)

Jenn created a very self-sufficient economic system with no player-owned anything. It worked out really well except for the fact that it wasn't fun.

DKH89 02-08-2009 03:30 AM

why does it seem like all of these topics lead to the same thing, just someone else feels the need to act like they pointed these problems out first?

CharlieM 02-08-2009 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKH89 (Post 1464103)
why does it seem like all of these topics lead to the same thing, just someone else feels the need to act like they pointed these problems out first?

I'm really starting to think you should either be fired or quit using the forums. It's proven Era Staff cant fix an economy own there own.

Right now the economy is so ****ed up I would advise either a reset or forcing a drop in the prices of guns as a whole and reseting the top 10 moneymakers every week. Or you could just give everyone everything.

salesman 02-08-2009 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345 (Post 1464050)
If ****ty gameplay has become a part of Era too important to get rid of, then there's no fixing Era's economy, all you can do slow it down by resetting every few years.

We're all entitled to our opinions. You may not enjoy it, but in fact, lot's of players do.

DKH89 02-08-2009 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieM (Post 1464108)
I'm really starting to think you should either be fired or quit using the forums. It's proven Era Staff cant fix an economy own there own.

Right now the economy is so ****ed up I would advise either a reset or forcing a drop in the prices of guns as a whole and reseting the top 10 moneymakers every week. Or you could just give everyone everything.

did i say it wasnt ****ed up? we are workin on a new gmap actually. I wont on it constantly but i should be fired because i mentioned how every topic is the same thing? meaning why not keep it in one thread. Also, were u the one who said u dont get on player anymore? who are u to even throw ur input in there? jeezz u got a mouth on u

way to freak out and cry though =p

kia345 02-08-2009 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman (Post 1464129)
We're all entitled to our opinions. You may not enjoy it, but in fact, lot's of players do.

Yeah, enjoying mediocrity is totally in right now

jkool666 02-08-2009 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie (Post 1464053)
You can use a gun over and over but once you use all your grenades they're gone for good.

Give guns a certain HP Value. The more and more use they recieve they lower their HP drops. The guns will disapear when they reach 0 and the player is forced to purchase a new weapon.
Make the guns disposable.

kia345 02-08-2009 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkool666 (Post 1464147)
Give guns a certain HP Value. The more and more use they recieve they lower their HP drops. The guns will disapear when they reach 0 and the player is forced to purchase a new weapon.
Make the guns disposable.

Will not fix anything, the rich will just buy more guns, the poor will be poor and without a gun.

TheSpude_P2P 02-08-2009 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345 (Post 1464148)
Will not fix anything, the rich will just buy more guns, the poor will be poor and without a gun.

What? if guns break the rich need to buy a new gun. This pretty much balances it out lmao. Infact, rich and poor may not exist if Era staff listen and read these threads. Everyone could be equal

kia345 02-08-2009 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpude_P2P (Post 1464150)
What? if guns break the rich need to buy a new gun. This pretty much balances it out lmao.

Are you stupid? A poor person's gun breaks too, and they can't afford a new one. A rich guy wouldn't have much trouble buying a new gun.


I'm totally biased, but the only good ideas itt are mine

TheSpude_P2P 02-08-2009 07:49 AM

How the heck does a player get rich? are they gonna sell broken guns?

jkool666 02-08-2009 07:58 AM

A reset will be required when alterations are made to fix the economy. For sure.

It seems to me... that if people are complaining about players being rich (Is that what players are complaining about?) then heres the issue.
Its to easy to get rich. If a player becomes rich in a game like Era, they earned and deserve it. Whats the problem? Unless its not a real accomplishment becoming rich in the first place.

Maybe you could put a tax on players businesses if they make over a certain large amount/Month. That’s just making it harder next time around for the rich guy to get ridiculously rich.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345 (Post 1464148)
Will not fix anything, the rich will just buy more guns, the poor will be poor and without a gun.

If guns don’t stay in the game permanently the cost to purchase them will go up. You could also make it so a player is only able to keep a max of one of each gun in their inventory (including lockers and whatever else methods of storing your goods Era has). There shouldn’t be a lot of pricey, powerful weapons in the economy anyway. Make those harder to obtain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345 (Post 1464152)
Are you stupid? A poor person's gun breaks too, and they can't afford a new one. A rich guy wouldn't have much trouble buying a new gun.

Make the less expensive weapons (that the poor players use) long lasting. The more expensive ones shouldn't last as long anyway in reality. The more high-tech equipment thats on a gun, the more likely chance that its going to break.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpude_P2P (Post 1464153)
How the heck does a player get rich? are they gonna sell broken guns?

No, the broken guns are removed from gameplay entirely.


I think its also obvious that there needs to be some sort of co-operation between the Zodiac and Era staff to effectively deal with the cross-server trading issue. Its pretty easy on Zodiac to obtain Era items...

TheSpude_P2P 02-08-2009 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkool666 (Post 1464154)


No, the broken guns are removed from gameplay entirely.

That was sarcasm from me. :]

kia345 02-08-2009 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkool666 (Post 1464154)
It seems to me... that if people are complaining about players being rich (Is that what players are complaining about?) then heres the issue. Its to easy to get rich. If a player becomes rich in a game like Era, they earned and deserve it. Whats the problem? Unless its not a real accomplishment becoming rich in the first place.

I'm just going to call you stupid and leave it at that. Not everyone can become rich, because the rich got that not through conventional means, but working their way up a once established ladder and then knocking it down (the methods they used, such as selling expensive guns and staff corruption are not open to the general public).

Quote:

If guns don’t stay in the game permanently the cost to purchase them will go up. You could also make it so a player is only able to keep one type of a gun in their inventory (including lockers and whatever else methods of storing your goods Era has). There shouldn’t be a lot of pricey, powerful weapons in the economy anyway. Make those harder to obtain.
No one's going to be able buy guns if they can't sell their high tech guns that people are afraid to buy because they break. Their strength is nullified by the fact they break faster.

Quote:

Make the less expensive weapons (that the poor players use) long lasting. The more expensive ones shouldn't last as long anyway in reality. The more high-tech equipment thats on a gun, the more likely chance that its going to break.
Eliminates value, eliminates market, eliminates trading, eliminates player interaction aside from pk'ing, eliminates community. That would lead to Era having Zone's community (or lack thereof), where you don't need to be able to talk to people.

Nataxo 02-08-2009 08:38 AM

I think Jesse's Idea is preety good actually :o

DuBsTeRmAn 02-08-2009 12:41 PM

Jesse, Go suck on zone, not on era (Nah, I LOVE YOU)

Andre2006 02-08-2009 02:10 PM

I have been trying to get a few prices down ^^ The 1.5 million Metal Storm, I sold that for 500k :D yey me

jkool666 02-08-2009 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nataxo (Post 1464157)
I think Jesse's Idea is preety good actually :o

Yes parts of it are good. Would need work done to it by someone more knowledgeable on the subject, but its a decent rough idea.

There's obviously a problem if a gun is purchased, comes into the economy at a value, and the currency used stays in the economy as well. It just makes the economy richer and richer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345 (Post 1464156)
but working their way up a once established ladder and then knocking it down (the methods they used, such as selling expensive guns and staff corruption are not open to the general public).

That ladder must be a) to easy to climb and b) allow players the ability to climb extremely high with no end.
And if staff corruption is a problem fire all bad staff upon reset. Although I know its hard to find GOOD staff...


Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345 (Post 1464156)
eliminates trading,

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkool666 (Post 1464154)
You could also make it so a player is only able to keep a max of one of each gun in their inventory (including lockers and whatever else methods of storing your goods Era has).

How so? An item runs out, a player is immediately forced to find another player who has that weapon and is willing to sell/trade it (at a higher cost because the weapon will be more-rare). And if it was harder to get rich in the first place, the rich person would have money, but not be ridiculously rich an able to buy anything they wanted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345 (Post 1464156)
No one's going to be able buy guns if they can't sell their high tech guns that people are afraid to buy because they break. Their strength is nullified by the fact they break faster.

Hmm, your right, making strong weapons less-sturdy is a bad idea.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kia345 (Post 1464156)
I'm just going to call you stupid and leave it at that.

Very childish on your part considering I was just trying to help... But whatever floats your boat :).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuBsTeRmAn (Post 1464166)
Jesse, Go suck on zone, not on era (Nah, I LOVE YOU)

Go suck at life, not on Graal.
(Nah, I LOVE YOU)

kia345 02-08-2009 06:28 PM

Jesse, I already told you why your idea sucked.


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