Get rid of Offline Scripting?
 

Lance is trying to do away with the offline scripting part of Graal Online. Do you want to keep the offline scripting mode or get rid of it?

Who cares about Tseng. Jagen is the one scripting the whole rc + editor bs.

Tseng seems to have a word in every decision these days... But I dont think it will be removed...cause you can always script outside of graal and use your scripts online. But that may just be a way to force people to pay for a playerworld or something. i dont see how anyone can test scripts if they dont have space to test. seems kind of silly, just like tseng.

Why would it be up to Lance to keep or not keep the offline editer? -_-

Question: If you take away offline editor, how would you make levels and level npcs?

Stefan has already announced his decision. I had no hand in it, I am merely stating a fact. The offline editor shall be no more.

Didn't Stefan decide to remove it solely for security reasons? If that's so, why not simply make another program separate from Graal.exe that allows you to edit levels offline? Just have it to where there are no connections to anything so you have nothing to worry about in terms of memory editing or whatever.

I dont make levels anymore anyway. Its ****ing retarded to make a bagillion levels for no reason but because the server manager/owner is a retard.

Without it, how can people without a job on a server make NPCs? And how can they insert NPCs into a level? It's much easier to have the offline editor mode. Also, that way is the only true way to tile levels.

This is what needs to be done. They have RC as a seperate program. Graal Shop, too. Have the level editor be a seperate program!

removing the offline editor is one of the worst ideas i
ve ever heard X_x

What the hell.

This new graal version sounds terrible.

udhfugrtgf

It would be nice to have something that just does the test and style for the code. I really hate loading graal on my slow computer just to test for an error.
If the offline editor is gone then how would people make levels?

GraalShop is meant to be incorporated into the client too

At first I was all for keeping the offline editor now i'm having mixed feelings.

My guess is it's all a big chunk of unneccessary code now. As online scripting needs to be handled differently.

Offline scripting can be useful for clientside scripts. But truly, that's about it. And not even all clientside commands function the same online as offline. So it would just cause confusion.

Stupid idead of get rid of offline scripting, but well, this wouldn't be a problem as long as a style & test button were added to NC.

Get rid of it. It's no use. They are adding the test button and style button onto the RC editor, so noone should have to complain. Only problem with this, though, is that noone knew will be able to script unless servers want to hire apprentice scripters, to learn from their current scripters and pass on the trade. I am totally against putting the RC into the client, though.

What about servers that have no need for server side scripts. They don't want to hire newbies to learn, so HOW will they?

They will still have to use apprentice scripters. The only difference is it will go alot quicker, with the small amount you can possibly do on the clientside.

If they don't want to hire newbies to learn, then they should just go hire someone who already knows what they are doing. Of course, anyone with common sense wouldn't join a server without an npc server(no offence to classic, I just think its obsurd.)

Ugh, Graal used to be all about making stuff for it. When I, and many other people first learned about being able to make your own levels, I jumped, and realized that this game is awesome. Making stuff rocks.

But now, newbies won't even have that chance? Someone new to the game wanting to make levels will have to buy their own playerworld? Because certainly no one will hire them. Dumb.

Offline editor is useful, in a tonne of ways. Not everyone has highspeed internet, and can remain connected to the internet for forever, some dialup users like to make levels when the phoneline is busy.

And, what is so terrible about offline scripting? I do all my scripting offline, and it works fine online. Hell, a lot of people will never learn how to script now, without the curiousity driven npc tinkering offline.

Why is this even being added in the first place? For efficiency sakes? It is good how it is now.

I agree with Thak. This idea is wacked. Why. Why is it comming to this. Graal used to be fun, now it is moving from "classic" to "GK."

I think that there should be a seperate Graal Development Environment that has a server emulator to run NPC scrips etc. So you can develop offline. I've always thought it was kind of dumb to have the editor intergrated into the client.

But from Graal's standpoint, they're getting $100 a year for people who want to develop playerworlds. The $100 isn't really for hosting the playerworld, because they still have Playerworld Reviewers (which is very dumb, if people pay, let them put **** up, even if it's crap, it wont look bad for Graal, just the idiots who run those servers, that's why they're called "playerworlds").

Think of the $100 more like a Developer Fee. Like Nintendo will charge you to make Game Cube games. The difference here is that there is nothing for the developer to profit from. So it seems kind of ridiclious. :rolleyes:


The fun thing about Graal has always been that players can get so involved. Making levels, adding to the world themselvs.

No offence, but I think Graal Kingdoms isn't fun at all. I only got Gold and VIP subscription to send Stefan a little more cash because I enjoy Graal. Then again, I thought Bomby Moon was stupid too. If I wanted to spend hours working to get money, I'd work, not play a game of... working?

Graal has always been about comunity. Unfortinately, like any comunity, as it gets bigger, more popular, it gets more fragile, it's eaiser to be friends and have a comunity with 20 people than 1,000 people.

As for Graal 3D, it won't work. Not unless Stefan hires some real good developers from somewhere like 3D Realms. Graal simply won't compeate with other 3D engines out there, and won't be able to catch up without a miricle. My suspicion is that Graal 3D will also be the end of player-created-levels and modles which will make Graal even less fun.

Here's a sugustion. Take Graal Classic, and make it a seperate client. Make 3D a seperate client. Improve the managment of Graal's playeworld system and you've got a good income base to take work on stuff like Graal 3D seriouslly.

End of Rant ;)

So..How are we going to make levels and such if the editor is being removed..I dont like it. :\

Once again I'll say it, Graal is changing and it's just not going to be the same Graal we know. They're trying to change in a lot of ways. Like Thak said, Graal is all about making stuff. When I first found the level editor I was pissed in my pants (im joking).

Then again, just wait until they launch this whole new "online omgfgleet levelz editorplz". When they see development on servers are going.."bad" and things are just not working out like before, they are bound to make some changes. Then again, it can't possible get that bad >_>;

This happens with a lot of games anyway, first it's all for fun, then it starts to grow, it becomes a job, they charge money, things begin to change just for the money, you start to lose the strong community from the rapid increase in players, game starts to change again, some people are un-happy, everything goes boom. (i dont think the last part will apply to graal though) XD

a) keep Classic out of the discussion, in January we have an NPC Server. Yes, this is a deadline.

b) What drew me mainly to playing Graal in October/November 2001 was the level editor, I liked most games that include decent level editors so I liked Graal a lot. Even more when I found out what scripting possibilities there are. I made a lot of scripts before I ever connected to one server, I guess even before I ever saw the GraalOnline homepage (I downloaded it from a freeware site).
In other words, without the level editor I probably wouldn't be here.

I think it would be possible to add a level editor to Classic and other servers so players can tile their own level in a safe enviroment, but I fear it wouldn't be like an offline editor since they could only edit when they go into a certain house that has the editor inside and of course they have to be connected to do that.
Scripts wouldn't be possible at all, since that would ge abused.
I guess Stefan would make a server where every player can upload levels/scripts in a safe way, but I fear you would need to pay to use that server and as I told you, I for example only went online because I saw the level editor, not the other way round.


My advise is to make a small server that you could only locally connect to. Maybe it could be done through a button "Local Play" in the main menu of your client that starts the mini-server and connects you to it.
On the local mini server you would have the same tools as the playerworlds like the RC (maybe downsized since there is only one player now) and the level editor.

I think that if I have a choice between another MMORPG and Graal, i'd choose the other. Why? Better support from the Admins. It is already finished (the game). And many more things.

hmm... how am i going to keep a downgraded version of graal..........

I think no matter what you guys say, they're gonna take away the offline editor. Seeing that they have already added a new command to the Remote Control's NC Commands. It's /style weapon/npc/class name. It's the same as the offline editor's style button, except I just tried it out, and it was as good as the one in the offline editor. I believe those are just bugs and that they will be fixed in the future.

P.S. Stefan if you are reading this, maybe you can add the commands.rtf, or anything to the side of the scripting window in the RC, cause it's just way too plain. By the way, the /style command is not green when you type in /help in the RC. Minor bug?

O.o sorry, forget that minor bug thing with the green text. It's just that there's no colon (:) there. =)

A revolution will happen if the offline scripting be removed. v.v

Wasn't Stefan making it a seperate program...? It is being removed from the main Graal client because it is a known security risk (trainers used it).

And if you want the old offline editor, simple, just back up your copy of Graal 2.xx. (Not to go online, of course, just for the editor.) However, this probably won't be very helpful to newbies who start after v3 is released...

Offline scripting is not useless, though. It is the only place where you could successfully start. Anyway, I like making scripts when my internet connection goes down.

Or offline level editing, right o.O?

Iff offline scripting is removed, how will we be able to make levels and add NPCs to those levels? Most LATs I know add lights and candles and doors and whatnot manually, I would LIKE the level editor to be added as a seperate program, as the Graal Shop program was.In fact, make the whole training mode into a level editor, keeping the F4 button to edit levels. I have more ideas on this if you would like to hear, fourm pm me to hear my ideas if you would wish.

If offline scripting mode is totally removed, most of graal would rebel.

And then to "dead". :p It's true, it's going to happen sooner or later, this factor is just contributing to it.

What do you think? :P

Graal is dieing, simple. Removing this level editor will just make it die quicker. Without it, the people who do NOT work on a server cannot script!

Also the intention of graal won't exist anymore, according to what's written on graalonline.com :

Players can use provided toolkits to create their own content, such as their own quests and even entire worlds. By using these tools, players learn to design interactive scenarios and basic programming skills. Players also work together on larger projects.

Well when you script offline, those commands that require a npcserver won't work. Most of the npcs we use now require these commands, thus I don't see a difference.