You Want Real Balance in the Kingdoms?
 

Well I'm probablly setting myself up for even more harrassment, but here's an idea for getting more "balance" in game play. I've heard alot of suggestions for why a "New Kingdom" should be established. But here's an idea Stefan.... a New Kingdom Island" run by female players!!!! :megaeek: There is definately a lack of balance on this server when it comes to male and female players. If you just look how the kingdoms are set up you can see that it's geared toward male players.

This thread is not meant to attack male players, or the reputation of Graal itself. I'm just trying to state the facts. Most female players (including myself) who have ever reached any kind of real role within their kingdom (including having "rights") have to wait twice as long (if not longer) then male players to achieve that status. Most female ranks like Queen and Princess are social roles within most kingdoms, and have no real authority... which also comes down to no real respect as a player for your achievements. I am very thankful for Zen who has at least after I had been playing for 6 months., and there was a governemt overahaul.. has given me some rights in the kingdom. But I know I will never ever have the chance to be his second in command... or someday have a chance to be the kingdom leader, no matter how long I play. That's just how it is.

Now please before you start slamming me with critisizm, this isn't an idea just to so i can be a "leader" But why shouldn't I or any other female at least be able to know that it's a role that she can achieve for the same reasons as a male player.

We have all read the comments in other threads about the sexual harassment - verbal abuse etc... that almost every single female that i have ever talked to on this server has had to endure. Some male players understand how this kind of behavior is a "serious problem" and some don't see it as a problem at all. But never the less it continues! And the bottom line is if female players were respected at all... "This would not be happeneing at the degree it does.

A Kingdom run by females would at least give us a chance to better use our skills and talents that are otherwise being overlooked. It would give new female players a place to grow as a player without having to submit to "gender" harrassment in and out of her guild. There are all kinds of reasons that its a good idea. And it will be interesting to see the response this post gets. So post away! And Stefan..It would be good to hear your comments about it!!!!

I really like the idea...
An isle full of amazones :p
The paradise ;)

yeah...
 

That wold rule =)

Re: You Want Real Balance in the Kingdoms?
 

I thought the idea of RPing and RPing Kingdoms was to simulate a society that had a certain set of rules, both written and unwritten. You complain of a lack of female roles in that society - yet, it would not be a very accurate RP if that were the case. Now, if a king died and there were no princes to take the throne, then yes a queen could come to power.

Regardless; your proposed idea is good in theory. It is a good solution to the problem you stated.

I only have one question: but a kingdom of all females? Considering the female population of graal kingdoms (and all of graal for that matter) is relatively small, what'll that do to all the regular kingdoms? Take all the females out, and then you are just rather undoing the whole society. Segregated Kingdoms is what would result. Ugh.

I hear what your saying Tseng... and one the kingdom would be an option for female players to join.. not a demand. And it would definately have to be thought out well before put into action.

I also agree with you that kingdoms have rules etc. But a rule is only as good as there enforcement.

And maybe the RP of kingdoms is that "its a man's world" Then what I am suggesting is an RP Kingdom where "its a woman's world" and while I am sure there will be clashes... at least female and male players will be on fair ground when dealing with or oevercoming it.

As far as it being a small kingdom... for now yes.... but again don't under estimate the power of female players to build a successful, thriving kingdom with even more "female players" joining graal and staying!

Tseng is right... I am totally for a new kingdom, But this ruling by females thing is way over the top, If a female wanted to they could take control of one of the kingdoms... We have all seen LA been queen of nearly all kingdoms.. ok bad example hehe, But If a kingdom (as Tseng said) had all females then the other kingdoms wouldn't have queens or any women at all o.o Now that would create a bigger unbalance.. and on a personal note Raz... You could become the king of Zormite if you took it to yourself to do so... I don't mean overthrow Zen but I am just saying females have all rights males have they just don't use it...

Hey.. I voted for (2)NO cause in the first place i though it was a bad idea.. Not such a bad idea but it can be solved on a EASY way



But what you are telling about that females have to wait twice as long as males for a role with rights..That isnt true at all..Maybe a liltle bit but the kingdoms Dustari,Zormite Republic,Cresent Pirates,Forest, Samurai could add more female ranks and some female ranks with rights.. How's that? This is how the problem of you females could be solved very easy.. easier than your idea..

Well my sister and i like the idea.
Everything said is true.
Take Pirates for examly.
I was the only one left on tag for a long long time, i finally got promoted to , dum dum dum, postman???????
i was like ok, this is totally sexist
setnick Tiffany Mazus of the sexist (Crescent Pirates)
lol
ok i have a wierd sense of humour as many will agree. :D
But in time i made Lady and got rights to recruit and aprove
houses (thank you Nate!)
And even though my rank will change hopefully i'll still be able to continue helping out that way.
(I guess Lady doesnt sound Piratey, what else would you call a female pirate) ponders the issue..
Anyway, sadly its true not many girls play Graal let alone Graal Kingdoms.
Even if this shouldnt come about, least it might make people realize we arent just dumb females, i run a server, ive proven i can do what they can.
And i started to resurect Pirates, even though i glady say, Ghost PIrate has given us a lot to think about now hes back.
Hes making us *terror of the seas* again.
:megaeek:

Yes; well I explained what would inevitably happen if it became a 'big hit'.

Agreed - many kingdoms have failed in the past and most likely still fail to enforce sometimes even the most basic of rules.

Most RPing kingdoms do operate that way ("man's world"). However, you say they will be on fair ground - I disagree. There will always be thick-headed people who wouldn't even consider the idea, or who would simply remain sexist. I'm sure, if this passed, there are those obscene people who would have a lot of bad things to say, and there would of course be players who would never think RPing with your kingdom could work; as they would consider it "weak" or some other random insult they throw out against people.

Do you really think that would happen? That more female players would stick with graal because a 'female kingdom' existed? If so, the numbers would be rather minimal.

This is not necessarily the case.

Maybe this is because you didn't do anything for CP? or that nate was NEVER ON LOL I don't agree it takes longer to rank up for females, I became a trusted friend of Chris thats why I got my rank up and what you are saying is making you a hypocrite, if you believe that it is sexist and you're calling them sexist then.. you get my point *being childish ^-^*:rolleyes:

How does believing something to be sexist and calling it sexist make her a hypocrite? I'm not following your logic here.

No no no you didn't understand me, I ment females are just as smart as males... there for having the brains to become king if they really wanted to...

Did you happen to miss the *being childish* remark? I think so...

What you're saying implies that the reason no female is a kingdom leader or important in a kingdom is because they don't want to be, whereas it is quite obvious that there are several other factors limiting its occurance.

Well if Stefan actually allowed it... you get what I am saying though, They can become in power just like men can

Since when did "being childish" mean that you could facts together (she believes they're sexist + she called them sexist) and call her a hypocrite, when these two statements are not only not contradictory, but are quite complimentary? The phrase "being childish" would imply that you would quibble over something small or unimportant; it would not imply that you are making logical errors.

Woah get off whatever you're taking o.O I was (let me spell this one out for you) J O K I N G < Joking... o.o wait let me say again... joking okay? o.o you really need to loosen up hehehe

Yesss, if Stefan allowed an all-female kingdom after not allowing more regular kingdoms, that shows that they can acquire power just like men can. :o

No they were totaly different comments, I was saying if stefan allowed women to become king.... sorry if you misunderstood

Not very effectively.

There was a time Stefan didn't? o.O;

Jokes don't need to be affective, and umm I think you are looking into this a little too far o.o not everything is deeper than you think... lol my brain for instance XD!

I don't know, There doesn't seem to be any female kings... that would mean 1 stefan didn't allow or 2 females never tryed, or did and didn't want it bad enough

Or 3, circumstances have not enabled them to do so.

Lyndzey used to lead Samurai some time ago, for example; so that shows that both they have tried, and stefan has allowed it. I would tend to stick with circumstances making it difficult for them to do so.

It is just as hard for me or anyother male like me to become king, just like all females, some have it some don't... (people that is)

This is my point Tseng... Everthing you say here is true. But we deal with thick headed, obscene male players now, without a kingdom run by females. By being on fair ground I mean that we would be in a more authoritative possition to deal with it.

I know for a fact that several female players have left kingdoms and play on classic because of the sexual harrassment by male players. I almost left myself, but stuck it out. That was no easy task!

And Hashi the fact that a female player can achieve leadership (just like a male player) is JUST NOT TRUE! It sounds good in theory and all, but the reality is that IT DOESNT HAPPEN!

For example as far as me being Queen and taking over Zen's leadership if he ever decided to step down. It wouldnt happen. The chancellor would automatically take over.... and we just named a new chancellor, and I had not even been considered for the position. I'm not challenging Zen's decission, and he chose a good member to take on that role... but my point again it was never even considered, not even mentioned as a possibility. So in restrospect... what is my "real role" as Queen? After being in this position for several months I was finally granted "recruiting rights" But I am not granted "removal" rights. I cannot make any decissions when our leader is not present, yet others can.

Don't get me wrong, I am a member of Zormite and I am loyal to my RP husband...again i am just stating the facts.

Perhaps this problem should be more directly dealt with, instead of dealing with offshoots of it. Last I knew sexual harrassment was a violation of the code of conduct and could result in an immediate ban.

Zens Desicion as king to let the chancellor take over is his choice, It means that Zen either doesn't trust you or is sexist, I know that if I were a king I would let the queen take over if anything was to happen to me, its own individuals NOT the whole graal body making the kingdoms 'male controlled' So you beleive what you want to and I will know the facts =\ I agree some people *cough vahn cough* can have no respect for others (also dendori?) , But what you are saying comes down to the current kings desicion, so then its Zens fault you are saying....? chris's fault? I'd like to hear you're reason for this...

I vote yes cuz i respect women, and am a gentlemen (well sort've o.0 on the gentlemen part...a certain few know why im not to them) I'm all for womens rights and a island full of Girls :) not meant in a sexual manor, but if it doesn't work out, hey we all learn a lesson, and if it does, same thing. The only thing i wouldn't like is all the girls leave our current kingdoms :*(
*edit* because what girl wouldn't want to leave sexual/verbal harassment for peace and tranquility in a womens kingdom? :/

Again Tseng you are correct, but as I stated earlier, a rule is only as effective as its enforcement. If you search this forum for "sexual harrassment" you'll see that it has been stated that the problem is huge, and grows. However it's being dealt with now, doesnt seem to be working. The idea of a New Kingdom run by female players is just another idea on how to address the problem.

Maybe it's time that a "feminest movement" (from an RP standpoint) is activated as one way to defeat, or at least alter the effects of the problem stemming from the "its a man's World" attitude of kingdoms.

And maybe males can join the kingdom but have to be willing to uphold the laws that govern the "feminst objective" and that is "to enforce the value and respect of female players.

Um, Ariella. Isn't that being extremely sexist to males? I mean as far as I'm aware every kingdom has females in it, so not allowing guys to enter an 'all-female' setup would be very hypocritical. Even if males were allowed to join they have to uphold some feminist view? I really think you're taking a personal situation about not ruling Zormite out of all context. I'm a female and have never received crude sexual harassment on kingdoms at all, I've only seen ignorance and arrogant conversations between players over mindless issues *cough* vahn *cough* So to be honest as I first mentioned the idea of a feminist kingdom is wrong, if it goes ahead would it be wrong for males to set up a kingdom against girls on the basis of an arguement over who got to be king in zormite? The answer should be no but somehow males do seem to be punished due to a few idiots. :\

The idea about a kingdom run by females was to address a problem Hashi. What I dont want to do is start criticizing the rule of other kingdom leaders.

I understand why your having a hard time grasping the situation, because for one Hashi, as a male player you have never showed me any disrespect, simply because I am a female. And I understand it's difficult for some people to understand what it's like for others, unless they experience what they do. That meaning... you have never had to deal with the frustrations of being a female player in Kingdoms... so its difficult for you to understand what I'm talking about.

But Hashi if you think that female players are equal to male players then please search out this forum to understand the kind of sexual harrassment and dis respect that is edured by female players, then tell me...

How can a RP game be equal on a gender stand point when the basic attitude of male players is that female players are sexual objects, that as a male player it is a given right to degrade female players simply because they are "female" This attitude is founded on the principle that "its a man's world" which means males are superior to females. Where is the equality in that? I am not saying that every male player degrades female players, and i am not saying that every female player has not degraded a male player. But if you look at the whole picture and not just individual experiences.... you will see that this is a male dominated game. If there is male domination... there is no female equality.

This I have to say it a load of cr** Females are NOT thought of a sexual objects, I think personal experiance is something you are taking on here... and not all people do it thank you, MOST people don't do it, and I think you should look at yourself in the mirror and see how you are taking a VERY sexist female opinion here... I have a wife on kingdoms, She is my partner, she has every right in this relationship as I do and by me saying 'my wife' it is just the same as I am 'her husband' equal... You need to seriously look at yourself... its very hypocritial of you to be saying most of this, you are catagoring all males and saying they are all sexist... =\

I was afraid that my making this suggestion would have some feel that this is about me "getting to rule" which it is not. Zen is a great ruler and has and always will have my upmost respect and loyalty.

I am VERY HAPPY that you have not have had to experience they type of sexual harrassment and abuse that other female players have!!!! That's awesome!!!! But the fact that you haven't doesnt mean that it doesn't exist for the majority of female players. And it doesnt mean that the female players who experience this are doing something to provoke it either!

Maybe my peronal feelings are attached to these posts, but's what's wrong with that? I am not trying to degrade individual players, but trying to find solutions to "attitudes that cause abusive behaviors". Do I get angry about the inappropriate sexual remark I and other female players experience.... Of course I do... but again what's wrong with that? Anger and abuse are not the same thing. Anger is an emotion, abuse is a behavior. Being angry about things that are "wrong" are what inspire change!

I have NEVER stated that the idea of a New kingdom run by females would somehow be "AGAINST" males! And how would it be sexist? One kingdom out of 5 that females would have a chance to rule is sexist? One kingdom out of 5 that a male wouldnt rule is sexist? 5 kingdoms and no female ruler seems sexist.

Again I never stated or suggested that the kingdom would be "against" males. And there is no arguement over being King of Zormite. Zen is King and as far as I know he has no intention of leaving soon. I think you missed the point somewhere.

It's not worth replying to that comment as you clearly stated the kingdom would only employ males who were willing to follow a feminist rule. The sad fact is that there will always be those who degrade females which will drag down the majority of males' reputations. You should take the argument up with Zen as you seem a little bitter.

"Maybe my peronal feelings are attached to these posts, but's what's wrong with that?" - Um a lot of things as it shows you are being bias in your views and opinions.

Sorry that I'm standing against you in this matter but I simply don't agree with what you are saying.

I think Female Leaders is a great idea Female player's derserve as much respect as male players

Hashi? Did you read my response to you correctly? How did I catagorize "ALL MALES" as being sexisit when my response to you was:
[QUOTE] ! am not saying that every male player degrades female players, and i am not saying that every female player has not degraded a male player. But if you look at the whole picture and not just individual experiences.... you will see that this is a male dominated game. If there is male domination... there is no female equality.[/QOUTE]

In all my responses to you I have never tried to put you down or tell you that "you need to seriously look at yourself" as if there is something wrong with you. I have never called you hypocrit or tried in anyway to "Make You Look Stupid" for your opinions. If you don't understand my point Hashi, that's fine, but just because you don't understand doesn't mean that my point is a bunch of (as you called it) cr**.

Look sorry but I don't care, I have stopped caring, go ahead with the kingdom I don't mind at all, I realise there will be people with sexist opinions and who are bias, I can't change that since they don't listen, don't reply to this post for I am not caring anymore o.o

Why does everyone think I have a problem with Zen?? I have no problem with Zen, infact this thread has nothing to do with Zen. I think what happened is that when trying to respond to something that Hashi had commented on in a pm on kingdoms... it got miss understood. The part about Zen choosing another Chancellor has nothing to do with this post, I only stated that because Hashi was making a statement that female players dont get to higher ranks because "they don't try hard enough" And somehow everything got changed around and this thread became about me being angry about not ruling Zormite. How did that happen?

This thread started was an idea on how to balance male and female accomplishments in kingdom. It was just an idea on how that could happen. I wasn't angry when I posted it. It was something that seemed like a good idea to think about. and it seems despite whatever I say about my loyalty to Zen, and my respect for him and other kingdom leaders like Tseng... Now, I am somehow now "bitter". ??? I wasn't bitter when I started this thread, and I'm not bitter now... but I am frustrated because I seem to be mis-understood. It's difficult I guess to try and explain a point when people have different ideas about the "problem" or if they even "think" there's a problem. The only time I mentioned being angry was talking about what i have, and have seen other female players endure. I was trying to point out that being angry at something that is wrong does'nt mean you are being "vengeful" when you seek change. A perfect example is Martin Luther King. He was angry about racism, so he used his anger to "peacefully" work toward change. It didn't mean that because he experienced rascism, or seen many of his people degraded that he was being "vengeful" in seeking a solution to the problem. I guess that when you stand up against something that is 'wrong" against a majority, and the majority isn't ready for change, the result is assasination.

I also didn't say that the kingdom would only employ males who would follow a feminist rule. I was refering to a statement about it being an all female kingdom. And I was trying to get to a point that maybe males would be in the kingdom if they uphold a rule about "seeing the value in and respecting female players. Why is that wrong? Every kingdom has rules. If you can decide not to recuit a player because they have scammed other players, why couldn't you decide not to recuit a player because they sexually degrade female players?

I have to say though... it amazes me on how many times I have been miss-quoted in these replies.

And I will also say to everyone who reads this: I have nothing again male players who treat me and other female players with respect and dignity. I am not try to "male bash" here. I am not trying to seek "special treatment" for female players. I AM NOT LOOKING for an easy way to BE A LEADER. I IN NO WAY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ZEN AND HIS LEADERSHIP. (I really need to make that clear!!!!) I am just trying to state fact as I see it, you may see it differently. Your opinions may be different, and I respect that also.

Thats a crock, I never said that, Look who is misunderstanding people now Raz =\ I said that females weren't getting ranks because maybe they didn't want it enough (I have always been taught if you want something bad enough then you'll get it, if you don't get it usually you didn't want it bad enough) or wanted it but not enough and failed, but females have gotten high ranks alot of times before so you can't say they don't ( Plus there being like a 20% female playing ratio wasn't even mentioned ) There aren't as many females as males who play graal in all, so it would mean less would get high ranks simply because there aren't many female players and maybe thoughs who do play aren't bold enough to try (there are alot of males willing to try and alot who are not just like females)

Please don't patronise me.

This quote means you are aiming for feminism within this new kingdom, does it not? I don't think extremist views will help solve this problem.. There just happen to be more males than females who play the game and so due to ratio laws there will be more males than females in higher positions, it is not a fault in the game that it just so happens all the dominant positions are held by males. As I've previously stated the very little minority of males in the game are sexist or just pig-ignorant, and it would only take one or two to offend lots of people.

P.S Zen has quite a bit to do with this whole post, you mentioned yourself not being consulted or offered. Therefore I still believe you are bias.