Shadow Knight a "leet" scripter?
 

Stefan referred to Shadow Knight as a "leet" scripter, when me (and denryuu if he ever survived that car crash :rolleyes:), and quite a few other people know that he couldn't script his way around a trash can (not to mention his "suicidal" problems, which i don't feel at liberty to talk about). I mean seriously, NPCs make or break a server, they add the interest. And look at NPulse under Shadow Knight, it died, it had nothing good added, and it lost 80% of it's playerbase. Why? Nothing of interest! Sure, there was plenty of levels, but nothing to add the depth and interest that was needed, and who was responsible for the NPCs? Shadow Knight! He has RC and NC, which i feel he just got out of hype (newbs going "OMGOMGOMG HES SUCH A DAMN GOOD SCRIPTER AND ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE TWICE AS GOOD THAT I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ARE CRAP") people believe he can script good, because quite frankly, they think NPC-Scripting is a complicated thing which makes scripting a door take hours :rolleyes:. When in fact, most scripts are 15-minuters at most, which brings me to my poll, does he actually deserve all this priviledge?

Re: Shadow Knight a "leet" scripter?
 

I believe one reason he can script is because Stefan basically taught him what he knows. So, I'm sure if Stefan went around teaching everyone, they'd could script things good too.

Yes, but still, learning by example is a terrible way to learn, it promotes conformity, where all scripters do things exactly the same, and originality begins to die, scripting things your own way promotes creativity, and allows for customization, and possibly improvements. All complex scripting is best learnt by oneself, where you can stand out amongst a crowd, and create innovations.

Anyways, If one is going to learn from another person, it best learnt by gradual scripting, than just handing a script and having them duplicate it 100 times.

if i am going to teach someone something complex, i usually gradually script it with them, explaining why I am adding each command, and stopping if they aren't understanding something, this is the problem with teaching someone scripting, is this long complex stringed-out script, that comes off as gibberish until you analyze it piece-by-piece

So anyways, This is my second long-post per thread, so any post I make on this thread i assure you will be one sentence or less ;)

Re: Shadow Knight a "leet" scripter?
 

Ehm...average scripts are like 1 to 2 hours...and that's only proto's of 'em...finished and polished I'd say 4 hours, and that's usually bare minimum. I spend hours sometimes just scripting things to lay out what I would like to script. Of course...I guess I get bored with small projects ;)

A door could easily take an hour though...

If by example you mean by looking at scripts that are already working, then you couldn't have been farther from the bullseye. That's the BEST way to learn...it's how I learned, and it's how some of the best scripters I know learned.

Why? Because scripters who made these things used their own strategies to make the script. It's good to see how they did things, and then think, "How would I do it if I had to."

In reality, if you picked two random scripts out and studied them, you'd get a lot farther than with the entire commands list in front of your face. You get to use the commands in the environment, using a strategy someone has lain out for you, instead of trying to piece things together from the commands list and hope that they work.

Eventually, once you have surpassed what you can learn by studying others' scripts, you must start working on your own, from scratch, with your own strategy. You might refine your strategies, and dump the old ones you learned for new ones you made up.

For example, tell...say...both Kaimetsu and I to script something that will show a random field of stars on the screen, with the same exact image (no zoom or fancy stuff, just a plain old star like the old days). There's a very small chance we'd do it the same way, but the two scripts would pretty much produce the same result.

Point is, you start out by learning others' strategies, and when you're good enough, make your own. It worked for me at least ;)

Oh well. You've never seen Stefan call me a 'leet' scripter have you? Don't be jealous about it, and don't think he doesn't deserve it. If I seriously taught someone I'd hold them as one of the best scripters around, even if they were second rate.

npulse has his old work I beleve...

but sk is a really good scripter...

and I think leet is a dumb word to say (refering to stefan)...

no offence but that word is stupid I think...


but that is what I feel about things..

Re: Re: Shadow Knight a "leet" scripter?
 

the thing I hate about most scripts is the little bugs in them lol...

Like I hate it when you look though a code for like 1 hour trying to find were the bug is and then you press f6 and you see you made 1 small typo on something...

but yea most scripts take from 1 hour plus (but I guess it depends what your making)

if your making something simple like back in the day scripts like (beer at the joint on classic (I am not sure if it is still there))
then it can take like 15 mins if that...

but most good scripters script big things and it takes longer then 15 mins

Re: Re: Re: Shadow Knight a "leet" scripter?
 

I spot bugs really well now. I guess it's because I like using notepad better, and since notepad doesn't have a 'test' button, nor a debugger, and I port the scripts straight to the NPC Server. Trust me though, when you write 12K of code, upload it, and it works perfectly the first time...that's one heck of a good feeling.

I did make my own notepad for scripting after a while though...I liked the commands list on the right, so I made a notepad that had that (I always forget the little commands).

Re: Re: Re: Re: Shadow Knight a "leet" scripter?
 

yea I make some things in notepad first also (just cuz its easier to read sometimes). and its hard to test things that are for npc server offline (that is another reason).

Yea I know what you mean like you feel really good about your self and stuff..

and about forgetting the little commands :-) I do that all the time...

things like humm... ::Opens command.rtf::

lol

things like ahh... still looking

like setcoloreffect (I mean I know there is a command for it but I alway forget how it is like worded I always put setlighteffect or something like that lol)

but I also dont use light effects that much cuz I choose not to have them on (I disable dx)

I do that because my graal freezes on graal2001 with all the light effects...

Befor they usto work fine but now on this new version it freezes after some time...

From what I have seen, SK can script very well, otherwise Stefan wouldn't have hired him or whatever. His work on Providence is excellent in my opinion, but yeah that's just my opinion.

I agree with Kyle...some of the more complex script can take days to finish. I still haven't even finished an old system I was working on, I worked on it for about a week, and I still wasn't done....wasn't that long a script either.

I learned by looking at the graal main server scripts, and when I just started (remember, I started in 1.4) I looked at shadow dragons script..yes...I am very new to graal. Started the same time Kai did, I think...which should proove good scripters don't needs much time to get good.

Althought I never heard of this "shadow knight"....sounds kinda *** to me.

Re: Re: Shadow Knight a "leet" scripter?
 

but examples can't teach you to be original :rolleyes:

and Im not saying im jealous, but Stefan seems like he is unaware that he can't code for crap

yes, some complex scripts take days to finish, but 90% of complex scripts can be done over 32 hours (2 days - sleep)

yea and sometimes when you script something really long and complex you just get annoiyed and board after a while...

I started graal when it was first called

the adventures of graal

I learned how to script by looking at other scripts (levels were inclued back then of classic (it was the only player world))

and I looked at like the beer script and the door script and just learned from that (but I also new how to program so I guess that helped a lot)

his work on providence is what i would call "okay" It's nothing to really go "WOW" about, which a good script should do.

Ahem, I learned by looking at npcprogramming.doc (despite it's odd english). within a few days I had made

A door
A horse
A backpal
A serverflag system for a locking and unlocking houses
A costume shop
3 or 4 explosion doodads
And, a Staff tool (where you said "X Gelat" and you got X gelat added to your money count)

anyways, I feel that npcprogramming.doc is still the best way to learn how to use all the commands, and that the rest is just learning how to combine all the different commands to make something useful (which is best learnt through trial and error)

we each have our own way of learning ;)

perhaps...but 90% of what I'd consider 'complex' would take several days to make. You really have to space it out though so you have some time to look at it without being inside trying to fix the errors.

I mean, if you're fixing the inside of a machine and don't peak your head out after a while, you might never find out that switching one of the cables would fix the problem right away. I've had this happen many times before too (in scripting).

I'd say a week or two for a moderately complex script...I spent about three months off and on on the bomy morph though >.<

A bomy morph seems relatively simple though...

actually hes good but nowhere as good as you. I still cant get over the **** you made :megaeek:

humm i have never seen anything t-squad has made but it sounds cool...

t-squad mabie you can show me some of your stuff if you ever have time or something...

if you dont want to because you dont want to give me the script that is perfectly fine I totally understand that point of view

Re: Re: Re: Re: Shadow Knight a "leet" scripter?
 

WORD !

personally, i use a worse to good scripting method ... i make the script using old commands then i gradually improve it using new commands ... i fins this easier instead of just making a bunch of newer scipting commands then having to go 1 by 1 fixng any errors ..

Soulblade :p

maybe you shouldnt get into shadow knights personal life?? It is disrepectful and how would you like it if i knew you were *** or something and posted it around the forums?Its the same principal

that sounds like something a *** person would say ...

im not *** and you shouldnt assume or it might bite you in the ass one day

Re: Re: Re: Re: Shadow Knight a "leet" scripter?
 

Yah Yah. isn't your friends editor good enough for yah.

He say all he can show me is feature list cuz it closed beta.

All i'm going to say is lay off of SK, it's exactly this type of thread that shows pure stupidity... Instead of complaining about others why don't you worry about your own life.
SK is alot better person then most everyone else on Graal and yes he is a good scripter.
So quit wasting your time with theese pointless posts and do something useful and creative for a change.

i was just joking ...

yay!
 

Yeah he is pretty good.

i think i am equal to him like hes good at npc server, thats my one flaw... :-/

oh well.

gr33tz shadow.

****ing idiots, he is great. Shadow Knight made lots of good and useful NPC for N-Pulse before he quit and it did not die uder him.

You are just jealous. Get a life, go whine at your mother instead.

sigh, why in the world would I be jealous of him?

I keep telling you, he's not that good!

Blegh...I don't really care about him, I think that he just isn't that good, and other people are much more deserving than him.

And of this thing about me being jealous: Why in the hell would I be jealous of this guy when most of the people who see me script know I'm better?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shadow Knight a "leet" scripter?
 

I just like notepad better than about everything...it's really clean looking, and is easy to open 10 copies of.

SK is a good scripter, but compared to people like Kaimetsu, Kyle0654, Falados, and TB3 he sucks. :P

no,
he is responsible for messing up 3 servers.
Elven Lands - the owner debate, and his stupid "take my scripts off or it is shut down," things when he was fired or something,
Enigma - Ugh. Just plain stupid.
Evolution/Sidra - ganis.

And he massed out alot on other servers that he was going to commit suicide because his father died. There were threads here, too. ;|

Damn you Shadrock you forgot Soul Blade >=O

he forgot me too :(

and I was the one who started this thread :(:(

Uhm, you're not as good as them either..

I've never even seen your npcs, and don't you work for Faheria? Have you even done anything?

yes.. i think he does but..
it took him like 10 mins to make this script for me
uhh cant remember but if i sayd
setspeed 5
it would set the string
this.speed to 5