Lifetime Classic
 

I am reopening a discussion that has been started on another thread, i didn't want to speak about it because i wanted everyone to stay on topic, but i am not against discussing it.

That's not really my cup of tea to be always seen as the bad guy for trying to find way to get some money from our work but we are a company and not a non for profit organization and if I don’t want our company to go bankrupt like hundred of other online game company, I need to make choices, that’s basically what I tried to explain.

Cyberjoueurs spend a lot of time and money to add new features and technologies to the graalonline engine and a good amount of the players (classics one) get all these for free and don’t pay any more, even worst when they don’t play the game any more they give the account to a trial friend.

You can still argument that classic players have paid, what is true but they have paid for a software version X.X and not for all forthcoming version, no companies make new version for free, they make patch and bug fix free but not new version.

The idea with lifetime was to let player play even if the subscription was over. This is not something any other game services are providing like we are, most other game services are restricting functionalities, items or area when your subscription is over.

Ask yourselves if it is profitable for us when someone buy a 29$ subscription and play for years with no new subscription. I have already made calculation and if I add computer costs, datacenter costs, bandwidth, human costs… We are loosing money.

Also we have made the choice to always give our latest technology to playerworld, that means our gold services have no technology advantage to push classic player to take a new subscription.

We have introduced a few year ago vip subscription thinking that classic player (for most of them playing 20 hours a month) our services will accept to pay 2USD a month to get all services and more but only a few % of classic player are using vip.

So what is the solution? Is it to focus on a new game and close the old one when the new one is ready? Watch other online game company, 95% are doing it and they don’t care you have paid most of the time hundred of USD in subscription and spent hundred of hours playing a persistent game that will not exist any more.

So Cyberjoueurs have to find solutions to attract more players (and I am working on it very actively) but also find solution to not loose endlessly money with long time customers.

I agree to limiting certain things to the upgraded players. :)

Hm I could help making advertisments...
I have alot of connections
but a solution for this without losing players is like impossible

Advertising?
Advertise other sites on the graal site to get some revenue.
And advertise Graal on external sites to attract new members.

Pretty much the only other place that I've ever seen Graal is on some gaming top 200 site.

I thought about making a banner, putting it into a Signature and posting on a well known forum or more...
maybe Cyberjouers should add google adverts aswell
since alot of people visit the graalonline.com site (I guess)
it would be usefull :)
And as far as I know you get money from google for advertising them

I've got alot of connections in Australia to do with advertising. Considering a part of my job as a Real Estate Agent is to advertise places of business, and residence for sale.. I know how to market those things, and Graal would be easy to market in Australia.

If graal was a proper 3D game, there would be alot more players.
2D games are unique, dont misunderstand me but it's getting old.
3D games are alot more popular :)

Uh, Elk have you forgotten that Graal3d will be released one day?

They (Cyberjoueurs) are covering that base.

I know but Graal 3D itself needs its time to be built up.
Like towns etc...it needs life.
Quests and that stuff
And I doubt that wont happen in 1 second.´

I so want to help, really
but I can't beat my lazyness...

Rome wasn't built in 1 day.

See...
TO the solution
2$ a month? hm
You will lose alot of players...
There are kids out there who have no credit card and stuff and parents who are too lazy to upgrade an account for their kid because its just a game (view of the Parents, I guess)

I am sometimes confused about all the negative complaints from people. I've never heard from another online game with the same rights of co determination as Graal.
It shouldn't be impossible for players that showing their cars and talking about all this awesome things they buy, to pay for an amusement they use several hours a day. No matter what kind of service they use (game play, forum, developing).

Maybe we really need to think about a system where users can buy items. When it is true what I've heard about trades for Dollars there are lots of people spending money to buy a "leet" items.

There are other ways than just using a credit card Elk. Plenty of ways. 2 dollars is nothing and if you couldn't afford that then you shouldn't have an internet connection haha.

Edit - Elk you are telling people around here things that they already know. 2 extra dollars in nothing, but I can see a trend happening here but that is another story.

Sam - I think that is a good idea, but then you have to still think about how people can buy a better item than someone else just because they have access to money, and making the game unfair, I understand the whole concept of USDing, but you really couldn't put a stop to that.

People will complain either way, whether you don't allow items to be sold on the Graal website for servers, or whether you do.

True but how should you afford it then?
Kids cant do that
I can afford almost everything regarding online games I want :o

That's not my problem, nor is it a companies problem that need to feed themselves, and pay rent for their house and other things.

This is a business, and bills need to be paid, and mouths need to be fed. Come back when you are a bit older and understand the concept of this if you don't already.

What about...updates?

Not enough people to do major updates on gold playerworlds

I know about that

There are actually tons and tons of solutions to these problems. However everything is rooted at one main flaw, the game while ran by players, is led by buisnessmen who have never been the players.

Its hard for a buisnessman who does not "play" the game, to come up with things that all the players would enjoy. There are still MANY avenues to which graal could make extensive money if they wanted to go those routes.

They are simply minor changes and nothing more, and ive heard chatter about people willing to pay for them.

Its just about going outside that "Trusted Circle" of people once in awhile to find a guy or two who actually knows what they are talking about. Yes a buisness who hires only people who they know and trust will almost never come under attack, but they also may not find those people who know just the right formula to make them money!

Staffing more "Global" staff members whos primary job it is to help existing and struggling playerworlds and stuff like that.

Some things to think about while i rest.

If I had to start paying monthly to play Graal, I'd quit. I have bills to pay and payments on a truck to make. And honestly, Graal just isn't worth a montly fee as it stands.

Haha, that was me.

That's exactly right Andy..

Extending on that topic, finding players around the world who actually know what they're talking about and are in professional jobs themselves could help out in ways of being able to advertise, or give opinions on what would be the best way in other countries. Considering the fact that what works for one country, will most likely not work in another one, in alot of ways.

PWAs and Highstaffs should be professional.

The only way I would pay 2$ a month would be if I could do it by mobile phone. Since my dad and mum are always busy they can't be asked to upgrade my account. If it was by mobile I could do that easy.

More payment options could be something worth considering... Unless you can already pay by mobile >_>

I heard there was an option to pay by mobile via SMS?

Is there? xD I haven't seen that Devil...

But yeah... That's what I meant. SMS would be a better way.

THere was something about buying Gold for 1 week via phone...

Yeah but if it goes P2P costs then that's the only way I'd do it.

A good reason for the company to charge 2$ a month, to get rid of people that playing a game at the expense of others.
Unixmad and his company don't have to pay bills? They have to offer you a free service, because you have to make payments for a truck? Think about what you are tellin'...
Linux cyberjoueurs isn't the social welfare office!

He's already payed for his account :rolleyes:
It's not his fault if there's not enough incentive for him to keep upgrading.

In general? Listen to the players.

On a side note, I've noticed that you've implemented updates to the engine and not on the official website - if new customers see the website and read the update date as being 05 they'll turn away straight away. I'd suggest you get your staff to play Graal and ask for suggestions on what the players want - these suggestions could be about Graal's playerworlds, Graal's future or anything for that matter; whilst creating VS:CONFLICT I'd log on everyday and get someone new to give me suggestions on what I should do next or have planned for the future. I'd also ask for their input on what I was doing and if they had anything else to contribute to make it more enjoyable + exciting. People will contribute if you ask.

When companies make "new versions" they bring forth a LOT of updates. Graal's new versions are, from the looks of it, simply adding more scripting options, changing the F8 menu, and adding some neat additions (flash games, etc).


The difference is that on other games, you play servers developed by professionals. However with a Classic account (liftetime) you're playing servers made by OTHER PLAYERS not professionals. That's the main difference.

I'm not an expert or anything but you need to give people a reason to upgrade. I don't mean one addition and restrict it, I mean worthwhile gold server additions. Make a new 2D gold server, or something. It's been a while since Graal Online has made their own server. Zone is simply a revival of the old Zone made by Angel and them.

If Gold servers were more attractive I'm sure people would upgrade to play them.

When people thought "VIP" they thought "underground previews of many updates" and such. However no such thing was really put forward.

Blizzard just recently made a patch for Starcraft. Yes Starcraft, an old game and it still works multiplayer.

They're doing it because they have the money to do it, and they know their playerbase will move on to the next game. However the Graalian players might not move to another game, even if you shut Graal down and open another game.

Advertising.
Improve reasons for people to upgrade.
I really liked the Fairyland thing where you used your Graal account to login. Maybe a sort of option can be made where if you're Gold you can also play another game hosted by CJ? I haven't really kept up with Fairyland but possibly do something with that?

The only thing that I can continue to think of is improved rate of updates. Players want to see updates, players want to see good updates.

But the flying technology is a good update? It is an update accessible to gold subscribers. It it not restricting the game play for other players, and is eventually encouraging them to upgrade. Why should classic players reupgrade if they get the same stuff without resubscribing?

In my opinion there needs to be more updates to game worlds also. The globals could either get together to create an official project, or we could see how the playerworlds are developing, or both. If there was more changing content, it would entice players into upgrading, which would make it easier to limit classics more and not be as noticed.

I do believe that the limits placed upon classics, and definately trials, are a good idea. After all, Cyberjoueurs does need to make money in order to keep Graal alive.
Graal is even on Apple.com's Made4Mac section. :)

There arnt much globals anymore.

I think the most important thing to focus on would be the website, and keeping it updated. Like so many have said, not keeping the website updated could scare potential customers away.
Make sure the rules, ToS, etc...are updated as well, and advertising.
When I do a search for Graal, I find information, but most of it is unattractive, old playerbased content. Potential players will more likely play a game that has flashy advertisements, especially if they find it on popular game sites. Advertising is very important.

I'm sure that it is hard to find the balance to keep long time players happy, and to attract new members.

I do agree with members who say there should be more updates to what is already online.
Even though I am sure it isn't true, it appears to long time players that Graal staff no longer care about Playerworlds (Gold & Classic) that are already online. I understand that it is all about progressing on to higher levels of new gameplay and such, but a significant amount of players love the worlds they play on today, and have played on for years, and they don't want to see them die while new stuff is being concentrated on.

I love Graal, I love every aspect of Graal, and I have from day one. I love to watch it progress, and have loved every minute of watching Graal morph from a simple zelda-like free game to what it is today, and I know a lot of people love to Develope for Graal, but that is another problem. The offline editor is outdated, and does not help would/could be developers in impoertant areas such as scripting.
I can't script to save my life, but I have heard many members complain about this issue, so it is worth bringing up, especially since Graal is lacking in this area.

I find nothing at all wrong with the prices of memberships to play Graal. They are more than fair.

Also, a big reason why I do not go on the game much anymore, is the lack of rule enforcing. On some of these playerworlds, the language and actions of a lot of players are horrible. I know this may not be a problem for most kids, but as an adult, and a mom, it bothers me to see this stuff, and I would not let my kids play on such playerworlds.
PWA need to be actively patroling these playerworlds. they need to be available when trouble arises. They need to be active, and if they are not, if they don't want to do the job, then find someone who does.

I fully agree that some things should be limited to Gold/VIP. Members who have the lifetime classic accounts have already basically recieved something for almost nothing, and should not expect to recieve every new thing. That is unfair, and would send Graal to the poor farm in the future.

If you wanna get me to want to willingly upgrade my account and go gold again, make a new Gold server that will be cool/good... and/or add a new feature.

Updates in my eyes are just patches or minor additions. To get my interest as a player, add a new feature to the game. Flying in those hot air balloons does look cool and all, but I've already seen one of those in Delteria (well, except for the whole "setfocus(x,y,fov_zoomfactor)" thing for the 'z' effect -- I may be wrong about that, but the fact that I can think of that in the first place disimpresses me somewhat) so its nothing completely new... and to me it just appears to be another minor addition to GK that will only give me a new way of getting around... just in case I ever want to upgrade my account again.

To me, an example of a feature of the game would be the ability to make a guild, primarily due to the whole GuildCP and how you need to apply and use the website to get it made/approved/managed. I actually wanted to get a VIP account for a little while after my Gold expired so that I could make my own guild... but I lost the urge after a couple days because I realized that some servers don't allow global guilds... and also I played Valikorlia a lot so it was illegal anyway.

As a player, I can say that if you make these additions to the game and only let gold/vip players use them, then it will be nothing more than a nuance to me -- something I can play without. It's just another item that I can possibly script myself or get uploaded if I play my cards right.



My recommendation is to make a new Gold server. If you'd prefer not to do that, then find a promising, currently in-progress server that needs help, Cyberjoueurify it, and then release it as a Gold server! (I'm keying that term, btw) If I see something new on the serverlist, I'm definitely going to double-click it whether I can play there or not (and I'm sure after that watching Zodiac stomp on all of the people who said it wouldn't last can make this go without saying).

The reason it appears to be hard to create a reason to do things in Graal, to me, is that the original theme of the game has been played out. That's why the more RPG-ish themes of Maloria and Zodiac where you have to level up have been rather successful -- they are generic forms of GK, and when you add that to fact that they're -newer-, the output will be a playercount worth talking about.

It's hard as hell to think of anything new or innovative that nobody's ever seen or thought of before because everybody and their codemonkey has already done it before.

I paid for my account, and upgraded it about 5 times, and probably 3 times on my darkriders_p2p account. If memory serves me correctly, when I upgraded, the cost was around 70-80$ Canadian, that is between 560-640$ give or take. I think that was a lot for a game like this. I've paid my dues, I don't think I'll upgrade again, unless you give some definate perks to gold/VIP accounts. I don't care if I can 'fly'.

You can go on and try to talk about the perks, but if you actually look at this game, you'll see that it isn't worth that much money. You'll point out that this game is cheap compared to games like WoW, where you have to pay monthly, but I can compare it to others that are free, or require a one time purchase. Players do the developing for the most part, even on the Gold servers that we're renewing our subscriptions for, so we do the developing and then we're forced to pay if we want to play our own content. Graal is unique, because I don't know of any other game that does this to this degree.

Yes, this is something I forgot to mention in my post also.
Players have been waiting for new Playerworlds to show up. I know there are quite a few in progress, let's get some up to play on?(Another thing that requires PWA activity)
I also like the idea of finding one that is really good, and making it Gold. I am sure there is at least one. :)

To me, this is a major benefit to upgrade.

/agree

I remember when I first got Graal as a trial -- I constantly played it. I saw that tutorial island and was like "oooooooooooooooooooooooooo". I used to actually draw on paper my Graal character and stuff (and I -hated-/-sucked at- drawing!)... I used to think up random things to do in my free time for my RP character in Valikorlia (that stuff is/was soo in-depth and cool because any player who had a dramatic capacity could do something and then say "hey I'm responsible for this!" without having to actually do any server dev work -- players could get respect by being a good RPer and not an Admin), too.

Man that was fun.





But back on topic here... I remember believing when I was a trial that Gold servers were the -really- cool/good ones (because Bomy Moon and Graal Kingdoms were definately cool with tons of stuff to do). Why not make/assist in selecting/making a new Gold server? Why not bring back the "Playerworld Inspection to go Classic" and add a "Playerworld Inspection to go Gold" methodology, which will hold the passing standards to a Cyberjoueur-like standard, and put the PWAs to work again? If I see PWAs playing an active role in determining the status of a playerworld (i.e. being Global Playerworld Administrators) in the game then I will have a reason to believe that they are powerful and deserve respect. That will create a player authority and something to start with.

I don't understand why there has never really been any big advertising done for Graal, it would really get a lot of people on the game, and there are many cheap options and ideas/ways to get them there that I can think of.

In the past the websites lack of ease functionality was the excuse, but it still hasn't been updated:confused: it needs to be more simple and useful and then you can advertise for it.

If I was to be honest, Graals only world that is worth promoting would be Zone I think, and I can think of ways to do this easily (and some freely), and then people can stay or go onto other worlds from there.