I had this crazy idea...
 

Okay so I was bored and decided to visit the Graal forums and went straight to my favorite area, which is the playerworlds. The problem I found doesn't really concern originality. My concern is that people are straying too far away from what made Graal so great. I never would have even came to Graal if it would have looked like Zone, or Era or any other totally non-Graal type world. I came to Graal because it had a fun and friendly environment, much like that certain RPG and it's green capped hero.

We've all tried too hard to make something that would "blow everyone away", and that is far too complex for its own good. So many incompleted and abandoned projects... which I am sadly all too familiar with. So many clone servers modeled after popular Graal playerworlds. "Okay, so Era has lots of players... lets copy it exactly and then add our own spin to it, and people will flock to us!"

I'm afraid that Graal has lost its roots. Classic is a shell of its former self. I barely recognize what I once knew as Graal. What with the futuristic shoot'em up servers, and the drastic changes to the game engine which seems to have caused nothing but trouble. (in terms of fun and accurate sparring) What is with all the "realism" and the blood and the slaving away for money, and "power leveling" and lack of player support?

Graal was once a good thing. No, it was a great thing. At first I thought I only appreciated the old Graal because I was new to the game. But after being away for a while, I understand that it's because things were kept simple. I remember when I'd love getting challenged to a sparring match, and I would follow the person to their arena of choice, and we would spar with others looking on. The matches were intense, fast-paced and most importantly, fun. They required skill and strategy, and there was no worry of some guy having more max health than you, or better armor, or a better weapon. Everyone was even, and skill actually mattered.

You could sign on for a moment and spar a few rounds, talk to some people, maybe help someone through a quest... It was simple and fun. No needing to worry about having to feed your character, or having some high level person come up and kill you, or day and night effects with tons of lights that lagged your game down. Just pure and simple fun.

So what I'm suggesting is basically that someone... a group of people... form together to make a new version of the old Graal we knew and loved. The graphics would be new, but polished and clean. Kept simple, and resembling what Graal once was. The systems would be bare bones. Gralats would be reborn. There would be yin-yangs for health. You would have a basic bow and arrow that shot in 4 directions....

And sure, the barebones of the Graal system are still built around this. But they are too dated to really be appealing to anyone nowadays. All I'm proposing is that somebody makes a fun and simple server that wouldn't have all the flashy lights and bells and whistles. Blending in the good qualities of both Classic and 2k1/Bomy Moon. Something sort of like Mario from the NES turning into Super Mario for the Super NES. You would just be re-inventing the wheel. Polishing it, making it work better, and not adding rims and mud tires and noise-making spinners.

I'd like to see Graal reborn.

I'm at college so I didn't read the majority of it.

You revolutionized it by creating some of the new tiles, if anyone is to blame for this revolution in Graal it'd be you for starting a trend.


Ah I read.

I understand what you're saying though.

I was always in Graal for the development aspect of the game. I'm quite pleased with the release of GS2, as for it intensely expanded it's scripting capacities when I was starting to get bored of the limited ones of GS. In all sense, I'm quite happy of what Graal is, and going to become. I wouldn't be very great for the server -- I'm a lot more interested in something complicated/challenging for me. I do suppose you can easily find people for this project, however. Good luck!

Kondias, this is a nice idea, and I may take it up, if I could ever get the server to make it on, since I can't afford my own. I'd like to see this idea happen :)

Koni wtf I so agree, it's what i've always been saying.

HOWEVER! The current tileset ruined Graal.

Bleh, the current tileset is ****. Aside from the hundreds of errors, it looks retarded.

Classic is supposed to represent the ideas you've just stated. This is what I've been saying all along.

It's fine and dandy that people want to be creative, and make their own servers with their own ideas.

However, a Classic Graal server that plays nearly exactly like classic graal should always exist.

Every new manager comes to Classic with their ideas, thinking that it is a playerworld to mold into their image of what they THINK "classic" should be like. Classic should be like Classic, not "Sort of like Classic, except with a bunch of totally different content, new systems, complex weapons, ect".

Dude, there are already about a hundred rented playerworlds that don't bother to innovate. But they don't seem very popular. Why do you think that is?

Log on N-Pulse maybe? :P cuz that's what we are shooting for in the past few weeks of development (since I was hired there)

We have a custom tileset, with pretty nice tiles, but they are all themed after the Graal default tiles... so it still has a classic feal, but nicer graphics (we are still working on perfecting the tileset)

We do have a weather system, day/night system, and custom GUI, but that is totally optional. You can leave it classic, or add the features you want to see.

Not to push the PW I work for too much in your thread or anything, but I just think that you should see if there is a classic tab PW which is already trying that before you work on your own project.
:)

Yeah, but there is a difference between a well made classic style playerworld, and a poorly planned out playerworld that just appears to be classic due to unintentional poor levelwork, planning, and scripting.

Graal was never the same once it became P2P as everyone says so the old Graal will no longer be.

N-Pulse, in many ways, is far from the world Konidias was speaking of.

I've noticed Delteria seems to be the most un-npc enhanced server, and i've really been enjoying it lately, i jut think it needs a little cleaning up in some areas and it could be awsome.

From what Konidias says, it seems that he would prefer there to be no scripts at all.

Either way, the point is that those worlds have zero players. If there's any demand for this kind of thing, wouldn't at least some people be making use of the nearest approximation?

There is no demand because everyone is either managing a playerworld or working on one.

Well, one of the obvious reasons they have zero players is because they are not on any of the lists. People are highly unlikely to play a world that they have to manually find and type in themselves.

I honestly believe there is a demand for this, mostly among the people who currently play "Classic", and some others who do not play there due to the current state it is in.

The demand may not be represented by the majority of the community, but the minority that would like it is high enough to warrent a single playerworld on the Classic Tab, which as I said, I believe Classic is supposed to, and is currently failing, to be.

Some of them are, surely? As far as I can see, 90% of servers fit his criteria (in that they don't have anything innovative or interesting).

Do many people with gold accounts play Classic?

Anyway, the point is that nobody will ever be content with a Classic-style playerworld. As soon as they get bored from the lack of content, they'll just take to stalking newbies while complaining about how things don't ever get updated.

Yeah, I can still play UN or Delteria if I wanted to play a classic style server.

Wan and I are already secretly working on an old-skool server but we don't want to amagad public!!11 it yet since it's only for fun with no planning but theres like a 98.54% chance that we'll turn this into a server.

I'd like to see the old tileset come back. I'd also like to see a server with a normal Q system, some basic NPCWs and so on, a normal health system, and levels that aren't packed with as many tiles as they can fit (though with the old tileset this wasn't an issue, since the old grass tiles were ugly).

steefu >_>;; you're ruining my plan

The tileset would be changed of course... I said all new graphics, but still with the classic feel. Just done better. The reason I made updates to the original tileset was because Graal needed to not look as much like the game it evolved from. This was many years ago and of course I don't really think the tileset is that great anymore. I never even expected my tile changes to be used as the default.

I don't just mean a bare server with the default stuff. I mean an improved version of old Graal. I'm not blaming anyone, and I realize I played a part in the evolution of Graal, and by no means am I saying it is terrible. I'm just saying I'd like to see a classic "type" server. Not just a classic server. I'm aware there are many servers with the classic tileset and stuff.

There would be new scripting involved sure. What I'm trying to say is I'd like to see a simple to play server, with clean well done graphics, and fun events and concepts... that don't involve the player needing to devote 10 hours a day to keep up with everyone. This doesn't mean people would rarely play, it just means people can play without having to worry so much about getting certain items or making sure they have maxed out stats and whatnot.

There are online games you can just jump in and play at any time, which are fun and are good ways to kill an hour or two when you're tired of slugging away at some massive online rpg. That's basically the concept I'm trying to explain. The fun experiences I had, had nothing to do with the fact I was playing for free, or my age at the time of playing, or who was playing at the time. It was the simple fact that I could log in, spar a bit, maybe pk a little... see guilds of people all around (actually PARTICIPATING in the guild they are in). It was more about a fun community that was oriented towards seeing who had the best swordplay. It was heavily guild oriented as well.

I think that is why Unholy Nation has been so successful. Though again, I don't mean just using all the old graphics and default engine. That is totally not the idea. Like I said, it's like Mario graduating to Super Mario. Everything gets a facelift. All the crucial stuff that made it fun would return and be even better.

Sorry if I don't reply much to this, my gold account is expired and I think I only get 3 posts a day?

Lol koni you are crazy silly man.

Actually this isnt a bad idea, and I wouldnt mind such a server, i would personally play it over all the other ones. Simplistic things hold my attention longer, when i dont have to learn much to play.

Problems from this though:

Most of the PWA want to see something new, innovative.
Could the simple classic style hold someones attention?
A Server most likely would need to be bought for this, who would risk it?

I would happily buy a server if i had funds, time, and support. Simply because its something I would enjoy.

Not to sound arrogant, but I was the first ever to create new tiles. Anyway...my comment on the thread:


I agree and don't agree at the same time. Those old style graphics were not good, but the simplicity and game type was. If an upgraded graphics was made, and a new system similiar to the old...it would all be good. I agree things are getting far too complex, but being original is not all that bad. Anywho, I like reading more then writing so I am done.

I had the craziest idea too..

http://img227.echo.cx/img227/610/ns0ji.jpg



Although it never happened.
If any of you are curious as to what it is.. it's related to Natural-Selection. :p

Sounds like 2K1.

ya cool, I wanna play old Graal!

afk playing Zelda: link to a past.

Graal will never be able to reach the level it was before p2p. The majority of the fun was playing a Zelda-esque world, online with other people. It was fun when it was Zelda. Damasca had a remake of Hyrule, which was awesome, but Damasca left because it didn't support Linux Cyberjoueur's bid to start charging players to see their (the very same players) own content. GraalOnline was a free community game, where players voluntarily made content for each other to play. Now, Linux Cyberjoueur profits off the work made by those unassuming players.

No Shaun, you're missing the point entirely. I don't want to see "Zelda Online". I want to see Graal. Everything that made Graal what it became. Basically it would be like what Graal should have been, after being forced to change things due to copyright reasons.

Instead of just updating things "just enough" so that they wouldn't cause legal issues, the whole game should have been updated to the point where it was unique. It's possible to capture the qualities of Graal without making it seem like Zelda.

Yes Googi, it would be blended with some 2k1 elements. Possibly bomy bopots as players or pets... done right. Instead of having too much or too little advantage. But it would still be kept as simple as possible. There would be no kingdoms. Just lots of guilds. Every single graphic would be new. Including the bodies and heads and whatnot. It's kind of how I originally envisioned Oasis, but I took a different road with that, and decided to style it differently.

It wouldn't be a simple 5 minute project. I don't want people getting the idea that I just want to see a bare classic server. Just like Mario Bros isn't exactly like Super Mario Bros. Sure they have the same characters, and the same concepts, and the same principles... but the games cannot really be compared to eachother on the same level.

So then. What you're describing is NewWorld. I'm not sure if you were a part of that project, but thats what they were aiming for. You know what happened to that project? It failed. Doing something like this is far too big for the normal group of developers that would attempt to take it on. This isn't a 1 or 2 man project....it isn't even a 5 or 6 man project. This is more like a 10-20 man project - every man on the team being exceptional.

It won't happen. It would be nice, but it won't happen.

No it isn't.

I mean the current pics1.png. I did some research the other day about how the tileset was bought to Graal and I read a thread about Konidias making new tiles and Stefan wanted them. Them tiles are the current tiles.

I remember back on Dino Valley, there was a weapon that everybody wanted, it was very fun; basically, it was just a putexplosion-weapon. Simple, no ?!
I don't think anyone would like to bring stuff like that anymore, comparing to Graal Kingdoms/Zone things. Things changes, we have to deal with it.

Actually Koni, I wasn't agreeing with you.

I personally enjoyed the Graal that had Zelda stuff in it. I'd be willing to wager more people liked it that way too.

I liked Graal in 2001, communities were nice and such. After p2p the only 2 servers I played that had decent communities were delteria, val, and babylon. All which died after 2003. Sad really :/

I'm not describing NewWorld. I had a chance to play it and I didn't like it. That's not what I had in mind at all. It would be a lot easier if I drew out the concept but then I'd end up devoting myself to the project and I'm not really sure I want to do something like that.

NewWorld resembles pretty much any developing playerworld now. New graphics, new GUI, new gameplay, etc. It doesn't remind me of classic Graal at all. It's totally different. I don't believe it would require THAT many people. You're always thinking far too deeply about things, Soulblade.

I think the bottom line is... that I was disappointed with the route that Cyberjoueurs chose to take with Graal. It's not "Graal" anymore. I won't get into the details because it would cause this thread to somehow vanish... and I'm not trying to be the enemy or anything. I'm simply saying that Kingdoms and Graal 3D and Zone are not "Graal". I'm not trying to say that I know what Graal should be... But in a way, we all know what Graal should be.

Again referencing Mario... It would be like instead of Super Mario Bros coming out... they made Mario more realistic and he hit things with his wrench and he could level up and he'd have to eat mushrooms for sustenance. It's totally not Mario.

Koni you're like my long lost twin brother or something, I agree so much xD

Yeah it is. They were making a new graal that was better then the first, something that had qualities and resembled some parts of the first but was superior in every way. To say "no it isn't" is just stupid.


If you want to be reminded of classic graal, thats fine. Personally, I think classic graal was nothing amazing. It was fun because I saw nothing better. Now that there is better, it needs to be way upgraded. The "yin-yangs" were dumb, the unoriginal "ASD" key interface was dumb, the way items worked was dumb. There is no need to go backwards and do things like that. I do think something which resembles the past could be made, but not something that feels like the classic graal. Am I making sense?

Were you on the team?

Indeed, it was more fun at the time and they should consider doing something like it again.