Graal Forums - Same topic as the last thread, but positive this time

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Same topic as the last thread, but positive this time

This thread is to continue the topic of the last thread created by Thor, but this time with a positive tone. Thanks.

Here's Thor's post:

Quote:

I couldn't help but notice that the two remaining faces of PC Graal's power structure have not visited these forums within the last approximate month, this statistic being part of what has become a fairly regular occurrence:
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...9&d=1478637790 http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...0&d=1478637794

While this statistic alone does not necessarily mean a lot, it is very much consistent with the overall picture as to the state of disrepair the game has sunk down to, and the lack of any whisper of hope that fortunes may turn around.

The last thread which brought up Graal's downward spiral invoked disclosure of a new 3D client. I do appreciate that Unixmad is not 100% fluent at English and so maybe his posts should not be interpreted too harshly, but even with that considered for me this did nothing to diminish the doubts and failed to provide any clarity to the topic at hand: to what extent is PC Graal / PC Client / PlayerWorlds going to be supported in future? and does Graal's administration actually care? Sadly this thread was eventually locked following a couple of idiotic posts, which is also a re-occurring pattern that is perhaps too convenient.

Now I've heard promises in private which to some may seem like very positive news, and I don't plan on publishing the specifics of this because I don't want to either raise false hopes or create a greater division of trust between administration and the community. However as much as I would love to see these things happen, I never believed it from the beginning due to the fact it highly contradicts things which have been said beforehand, as well as technical and logistical limitations. Fast forward a few months and there still does not appear to be any evidence that this is in the pipeline.

Moving on to the point of this thread. Every once in a while I've heard about various ex-Global staff being offered to return, people such as Skyld, Ibonic and Galen. These are all persons I have a good level of respect for, they'd each bring a unique skillset to the table that Graal is sorely lacking and I certainly would be happy if one of these were to accept such an offer. Looking at the timescales of their absences, and again no disrespect is intended towards Galen, but his tenure as Game Master ended what, 14 years ago? It does suggest that there is a large disconnect between administration and the development community.

What would happen if for example Carlito resigned tomorrow? Would Unixmad just pull the plug on PC Graal? Would things continue as if nothing had happened and the position of PWA remain unfilled? Would Unixmad offer the position to a random mobile server staff that happened to be logged on RC at that precise moment? Perhaps Unixmad would seek the opinions of Xor or SNK? Again I don't mean to come across as taking snipes, I admire their overall contributions to Graal and the longevity of their tenures, but Xor has had bigger fish to fry for the last 7 years and has remained reclusive to this community, and SNK has also had bigger fish to fry for the last 6 years and has continually expressed desires concerning the future of PC Graal as a game that I would suggest fundamentally undermine the future of Graal as a development platform.

Whether or not Unixmad and Carlito have good intentions is something that can and already has been debated, but one thing which cannot be debated is that the last update of significance was over 2 years ago (a botched client version for which numerous bugs have still not been fixed) and that the time since then has seen more negative happenings than positive ones. I would therefore suggest that if they are serious about supporting PC Graal going forward as both a game and development platform they would by now accept that some form of administrational shake-up is required. Even if ultimately no-one was deemed to possess the required level of credentials and trustworthiness, an attempt to procure such a shake-up could at least provide PC Graal with a shot in the arm at a time when playercount is at an unprecedented low.

I for one had hoped that my offers to redevelop the website would prove that I am willing to put aside personal differences if it were to be mutually beneficial. This is of course just one of many problems afflicting PC Graal and high up in terms of the time/effort/trust required to rectify, therefore I wouldn't rank a full redevelopment high in a table of priorities certainly compared to a minor redevelopment. Either way the provision of such a project would at least be seen as a statement of positive intent.

It baffles me why the off-topic posts couldn't just be deleted instead of locking the entire thread. It seems that if you ever disagree with a topic the most effective action you can take is to make a ludicrous off-topic post and then the entire discussion will be brought to an end.

I had intended to respond to some of the on-topic posts but was taking my time in doing so.

tsa wants to earn his moonie card before the ship completely sinks

Quote:

Originally Posted by snk

Why would anybody invest in a server with a potential player count of 30 (I'm being generous here). I'm sure the cost of a server has an impact.

People like Thor and Cloud want to, so what's the harm in letting them?

They are wasting time if the server never gets signed off.mm

As much as I would like to see Thor's Classic Online: Sorry :( - please stop wasting your time and invest your creativity elsewhere (Don't get me wrong, I love the content you have created!).
We already had similar debates four year's ago and since then, no measures have been taken to revive PC Graal. I am assuming that the reason behind this is, that for a proper PC Graal, a lot of coding manpower would have to be invested: New website, new devtools and more support. More IPhone / Android / Facebook Servers generate more income with less investment.

I agree that PC Graal still could be great with more effort, but sadly, I have lost every hope in this ever happening. Better get a good and easy engine (for example unity), get someone to create new tiles and sprites - and start from scratch. Like this, you would probaply create great content without all this frustration.

As a small reminder my thread from 2012: http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...18#post1699118

is this the beginning of the end?

For the sake of clarity, development is not high up on Classic's agenda as it is very clear that there is little to be gained by continuing as of this moment. It can also be considered as having the rare distinction of being a "developed" server.

On the subject of wasting time, I am hoping for the previous thread to be un-locked before proceeding as there's every chance that this thread will be locked for "Re-opening a locked topic".

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx (Post 1740343)

They are wasting time if the server never gets signed off.mm

But isn't the only thing stopping it from being signed off is the suggestion that it is a waste of time?

No... otherwise it would be on the server list lol

then what is preventing hopeless projects like that from being signed off on, if not this bizarre self fulfilling prophecy

Read the GtA thread, it explains my opinions on why it isn't being recognised. Real reason, idk

Why do we have a serverlist anymore? Does it actually even mean anything to be on there?

I am simply going to continue developing Graal2001 because it is the right thing to do. I shudder at the thought of just being passive about it and wondering "what could have happened". In my opinion it's one of the best games anyone could ever play, and you know I've checked out iGraal and everything, and it wasn't remotely even close to impressing me (it was really bad guys, come on, you can do better than that).

I get that these higher-ups are of one opinion, but that opinion is totally biased and wrong. I understand that they see success in what blasphemous work they have done to pervert what Classic has the potential to be, but to me it's an utter disgrace. I'm doing what I'm doing because there needs to be an opposite reactive and positive force to that sort of nonsense. It shouldn't be acceptable to destroy the foundation of your game to make an extra buck, look at Nintendo's example.

If the staff of Graal won't provide any support to PC playerworlds, I will at least do my duty to ensure that there is a top-notch playerworld available to the people. When it becomes popular don't come begging me to make it an iPhone server, because I would rather drink hemlock than to do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMelon (Post 1740353)

Why do we have a serverlist anymore? Does it actually even mean anything to be on there?

if anything we should expand it : - )

This might seem like a farfetched idea, however, I do believe with the right mindset it could work out in our favor. What if Stephane and Carlito could just implement a new position that would report directly to Carlito and then preferably just hire someone that actually still has more than a speck of sand of belief. Someone that actually cares, and it could be solved that way. Easy :)

I dont know what you guys are doing here, but this is the best phrase that maybe
describe the situation(i hope that it is right in english, because it is a german phrase and thats often problematic ^^'):

Everyone(xAndrewx and Management) always say that this is not possible, then someone(others) came who doesn't know it and simply made it.

Except that someone already is doing it...

So in my opinion the Graal Managemant thinks that they can get million of players without doing anything and if there are some simple things, which would probably make things better, they look at the current situation and say: "Huh only 4 players online? Okay we dont need to do this, because no one cares". Maybe it would be helpful to think about what could happen if you do these simple things and not how bad it currently is.

If this continues, i will start developing my own Graal no matter how long it takes...

Sorry if my english is the worst you ever saw ^^'

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo1122 (Post 1740359)

I think Pojo hit it on the nail with his use of the term self-fulfilling prophecy.

If something is neglected for so long then of course it will eventually appear to be a lost cause.

It is likewise absurd that one of the reasons given for the removal of Unholy Nation was "UN isn't making Graal money anymore", considering that the subscription policy was removed 3 years ago...

Quote:

Attachment 55959 Attachment 55960

Make that 2 months. Throughout which Carlito has also logged on Delteria's RC about 4(?) times. iZone apparently now has a dedicated manager as well, so that's one less excuse.

Not trying to be destructive. My offers to help with positive change are still on the table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1740538)

patience my friend

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1740559)

patience my friend

We have been "patient" for years
Kinda getting old

I got a random reply from Unixmad to an email I sent back in May, which was completely unexpected as I have since sent numerous other emails with a different subject.

Consisted of the same old crap about a new client and unrealistic promises I don't believe for one second, which contradicts everything which had previously been used as an excuse to chicken-**** out of Classic's Facebook/Web agreement.

Still no discussion over the fact that the basic fundamentals of the game are being ignored, or that the client is far from the only thing which requires an update.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold1 (Post 1740656)

We have been "patient" for years
Kinda getting old

ive waited so long on graal that i am now a real monk

3 months. Though at least Carlito now seems to have a good reason given that his account has been locked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1740786)

3 months. Though at least Carlito now seems to have a good reason given that his account has been locked.

I think you'll patiently have to wait at least another 3 months :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlanetOscar (Post 1740790)

I think you'll patiently have to wait at least another 3 months :(

Just like we'll have to patiently wait with a smile on our face for this mysterious new client which may or may not happen and won't fulfill most of the promises that have secretly been made anyway, while the existing client and platform are left to rot with absolutely zero support.

If there was actually some effort being made to support current PC Graal instead of just completely ignoring it then I would be willing to give this new client the benefit of the doubt. Let's suppose that this new client does happen, for one example Graal still has virtually no marketing towards server rentals, why wait until some arbitrary time to try and rectify this? What's wrong with trying to improve the server rental infrastructure and website at the current time?

patiently waiting from aboard a piece of flying technology would be a lot easier

guys the new admin will make graal great again