Dictatorship Or Democracy?
 

Decided to post in the official forum as it's a lot more official than unofficial.

As we all know era is a dictatorship. I'm not saying it's a bad dictatorship but is it the right thing for era? I honestly don't believe so.

This thread isn't to flair up any tensions or for people to QQ. It's simply just in the best interests for era.

We all know managers at the start are full of ambition, motivation and plans. They don't always get what they want done but they get some stuff done and then what happens is they start to laze off and things slow down.

This is exactly why i think a democracy of some sort would be the best for era. Would it not be better to have people elected for the manager role and let them deliver their projects and they know that if they don't continue to work hard they will lose their "votes", if you will.

Let's say they get to manage for 6-8 months and then another "election" if you will takes place for somebody else to take over and deliver their work.

I see a lot of questions against this but i just want to get across my intentions as to why i think it could work and why it would be better.

The people of era always want the best for the game, they play the game so they obviously want a better game experience. It gives them power to put somebody in place who will deliver what they want.

It also keeps managers on their toes and keeps them working.

Maybe many will disagree, i dunno, just a suggestion.

Who would want to be manager? It takes someone with ballz o' steel to actually want to be manager.

Voting for an actual change isn't affective. However, if Era wanted to devise a way for players to rate the manager on a monthly basis that would be more affective.

For example, the player logs in on the first of the month and is given the opportunity to rate the manager from 1-10. The results are displayed publicly. You may vote at any time once a month.

This way you could record the managerial performance month over month; i.e., "Oh, Zao has had a rating greater than 60% for the last 4 months, he is a good manager".

imagine a +/- rep system on era
who would be in the green?

Sounds good but the question is. What if they get rated poorly, what happens then?

@Bluemelon.. I honestly disagree about the 'having balls to be the manager'. If you have good plans and determination then i see no reason why you wouldn't go ahead and deliver them.

Also, why would they always be negative in the ratings? If they are doing a good job, keeping a good functional working team, delivering projects. I see no reason why they wouldn't be rated highly.

This probably wouldn't work, too many people would troll/pollute the system, like the support center, too much trash goes in there it just clogs the system and it doesn't get used.

We can both agree that the support center isn't really focused on by the staff. Also a lot of things doesn't get used in the support center because let's be honest. A lot of it was like to much hard work. You get the drift? To lazy to implement.

Option 1: Staff members get the vote instead of the public. Depending on the votes & feedback or however it's done. Then PWA confirm it and make it happen.

Option 2: PWA take notes of what manager they appointed promised they would achive. After a certain time period, PWA get's back online and asks to be provided the following work they had promised. If not delivered, they get removed. Voting system is then introudced within (staff team). Staff team vote as anonymous (ofcourse). Outcome= new manager.. They deliver their ideas to PWA then same again.


I can guranatee you that a lot more work will be delivered due to the constant pressure. That's how successful teams function. They need pressure, without pressure what is their to worry about? They can work at their own pace (exactly what has been happening for to long).

From personal relationships, and just some observation... only 1 (Ice) of the past 5 Managers (Zach, MD, Fidel, Ice, Zao) actually wanted/did anything with the position beyond babysitting it. And he ended up with the shortest run of them all since he just wanted the admin powers without being accountable (his current position).

Blue said no a couple times IIRC, pretty sure I'm the only one recently who has actually asked/had ambition to do it -- but that's a no-no. Everyone else they pushed into it, 'cept Ice who texted Gabriel.

I agree with this. Only a small portion of the server has any respectable opinions (that aren't totally troll) when it comes to the administration. I'd give you mine, but then I'd probably get a deleted post or a lecture.

Doesn't have to be a master plan; some of the best systems evolve.
This is like presidential opinion polls - they're not deciding factors but help guide decisions and serve as fast feedback for leaders. If the average rating is low then an exceptionally low rating is poor and "okay" becomes a good rating.

Try not to think programmatically or systematically; it's a human process and big wide-sweeping rules don't typically help. I recommend approaching things on a situation to situation basis!

Warning: overly wordy Amsel post to follow.

From what I can remember, we've always joked about how Era management is constantly on the next bus. All managers tend to go through the same few "phases" of appreciation:
Honeymoon: "Oh, the old manager was such crap, I'm so glad we have someone new around."
Suck-up: "You're doing such a great job, and getting so much done, you're one of the best managers we've ever had! PS can I have a job as PR?"
Loss of thrill: "What has the manager even DONE recently?"
Decision time: "You were faced with a problem where 50% of the players wanted one thing and 50% of the players wanted the other, and you went with the group who wasn't ME?! Worst. Manager. Ever." (Really did something in the middle, so 100% of players think this).
After the hammer: "Oh I'm so glad we got a new manager, that last one was such crap."

Truth is, we will never find a manager that all of the players appreciate, because players have contradictory opinions of where the game should go. As I've said in other posts, most developers on Era have given up with ideas that try to please everyone; we're much more concerned with making sure everyone has at least one cool new piece of content released that they enjoy every so often. You might not be in to no-pk events, so you may have thought NPCDodge was stupid, so the next thing I came out with was GangPK (entirely PK based). Some might not like that because it's too closed off, so one of my next plans is a more traditional Gang "area" based off Benny/Dusk's ideas (IE kicking off gang challenges yourself). And all of the developers do this; Tim, for example, will work on a new Inventory one day (appealing to those who think Era needs a visual makeover), then work on the gang system the next (appealing to those who think Gangs need a functional makeover).

Despite having the fewest developers to choose from that Graal has ever had (and one of the smallest development teams that Era has ever had), we release new content on almost a weekly basis. And this is a game that you all play for free. I think it's great how much effort the staff has put into giving Erians new content to enjoy. We've had countless events, a few new quests, multiple holiday scenes, all of gun skins, the new inventory system, a whole bunch of random graphics/levels/sounds/ganis, etc etc all come out under Zao's management in the past six months. Personally, I think he's doing an awesome job. I honestly don't remember a time when work has gotten done this consistently and quickly (don't you remember the summer where era was down for like three months for a reset and the only new developments were cars and small biz's?).

As for the reason why Zao, Ice, and Blue (who I'd consider "management") might not release content at the rate they once did, it's because they're constantly fixing all the little things that most of you don't even know about. When cars broke, it was Ice and Blue fixing it up. When projects are running behind, Zao is on our butts immediately. Yet, despite this, they STILL have each found time to release some really cool things in the past six months (Zao released two of the most popular non-pk events, Blue released the christmas music player that pretty much everyone used, Ice always does a lot of the holiday scripts, etc).

And to the point of "nobody wants manager," that's not really true. While I've never asked him directly, I find it hard to believe that Zao would say he doesn't enjoy being manager. And plenty of us are ready to take over if Zao decides he's not into it anymore. The real problem is that Erians burn out every manager by treating them as though Era is supposed to be their full time, 40-hours per week job. Virtually all managers have also been players, and even if they are on for 40 hours in a week, they aren't going to be doing work that whole time. It's not a paid position, and it's crazy to expect something so much out of a volunteer.

(I don't usually do this, but) TL;DR: Zao is a great manager. When he gets sick of it, we have plenty of great candidates waiting to be the next manager. Era's outlook from an entertainment perspective is the best it has ever been. I think players need to stop looking for issues where there aren't any.

k.

I've sucked up to a lot of people in my day, and Zao isn't one of them. I don't even think Zao reads the forums. Plus wouldn't need to suck up; I'm level 4 RC anyways and have more than enough rights to do the things I need on a daily basis as a developer.

I would accept the accusation of "suck-up" if my point weren't backed up with about a thousand examples and detailed comparisons to old management styles, which you apparently glazed over and ran to the "TL;DR" (now I remember why I don't put those in).

Nobody's saying anything bad about Zao or any manager. No idea where you got that from.

What i'm trying to get at is.. A way that players can come together and stand up to the manager if they believe they aren't delivering what they want. We can't stick with the same manager forever. They have things they will never change that players want changed. Different managers = different beliefs/changes.

Constant change on era is what is needed to keep them entertained. It's a game after-all, not real life. People play games to be entertained, not to play happy families and live a life.

@Stephens idea, i really like it. Could it be implemented?

Edit: The idea behind this is to also keep managers on their toes. They know if they don't deliver and run things professionally as they can then they know they will get bad rep/no votes etc. This will keep them working.

Just because things are being released doesn't mean it's coming from Zao. How many projects has he worked on, did he help with you? Just because he give you permission to do it, doesn't mean he should get credit for it? Does he lead any projects etc?

I'm not saying he doesn't, but like i said; just because content is being released doesn't mean it's coming or being directed from him.

I read the whole thing as I always do... twice.

Just seemed highly bias toward the team you work/are an administrator on, and beyond the second paragraph it had nothing to do with the topic.

>_<

I just figured Koho was bringing it up to say "I want to vote to change the manager now." Other people complained about them earlier in the thread, as though to say the same:

The reason I brought all of it up is that players will complain about whatever is in charge, no matter how good of a job they're doing. Look at almost all of the past managers. You can browse through the hall in the events place; can you really pull out more than like 3 or 4 that you thought did a good job? But somehow Era has managed to stay alive and making new stuff for like 15 years (without paying anybody for it). I don't think players should get the choice of who runs things, because it would change hands too quickly for anyone to get started on real projects, and some of the people that would get chosen would be horrible. Era is supposed to be more like a business than a government, and that's how we can be efficient. If everyone's out campaigning to the players to stay/get Manager, and still get cycled around before they can learn the ropes, nothing will get done.

The reason I got so defensive is because I thought this thread was supposed to be a personal attack on current management (saying "hey, we need new management, so let me vote on who it is").

Well you figured wrong.

This is not an attack. If you read what i said properly you would have seen that i said "im not saying it's a bad dictatorship but is it the right thing for era?" It was a suggestion to keep management right, not blasting them.

You have got this totally wrong and have went way of-topic.

There's one primary reason a democratic way of electing manager (whether by players or staff) would never work: collusion.

Era would become corrupt/more corrupt (depending on how a player views it currently, I don't actually know) and much more similar to the real world corruption we see everyday. I could see it now, items/gralats/even I'm sure someone would be desperate enough to offer USD for votes a certain way. There would be no way to police that, and never an honest vote.

I don't know how you make a thread talking about how "all staff burn out after a few months," then someone starts specifically naming current staff on Era as "not doing anything," all while mentioning "we need to be able to vote for new managers every few months," and don't expect it to be taken as an attack against the current staff on Era.

And my last post was definitely on topic, even if I rambled off a little hard at the end of the first. Era doesn't like anyone who is manager. If all players had a say in who was manager (even if it were just "public opinion polls"), we'd never have a manager last longer than one "term."

I never said they burn out after a few months. I said things slow down but they don't burn out and things don't come to a halt. Who said staff don't do anything? This clearly proves you haven't read my post properly and carefully. It doesn't have to be a new manager. If the current manager is doing great then he can get to stay regarding he's voted back in. Yet again, you are getting off topic.

You are being super defensive because you are in the current management team. If you were fired yesterday or not staff, you would come on here with a totally different opinion. I've seen it happen x4488448 times.

I respect your opinion but you're getting it wrong.

This thread is not to bash any staff/managers. The thread was in the best interest of era and a way for players to rep current managers or for players to have a say in the game they play.

this whole post is too long. you cant put kids in charge and you cant expect people to do a good job managing a server if they aren't getting paid to do it. the exception to this is jerret.

I guess. It's starting to get off-topic. Thread wasn't set up to bash any managers or staff. Zao's a good guy, i might not agree with everything he does but he's a friend. I want what's best for era and does many others.

Not everybody uses the forums. I'm not just speaking for myself in the stuff i say. I speak for many other people to.

Stephen has came up with something that i like. I think it should be implemented. It gives the players a chance to rate current managers. It can evolve from there.

I understand now that you weren't trying to be offensive, I'm just saying that it was pretty easy to take it offensively based on the tone and content of the thread.

And I'm not current management or really even close to it, I'm a developer who has been around for a long time. I don't make any decisions as it is, other than what project I personally feel like working on at the time. I currently manage 0 people on Era (and can't even change rights, so I couldn't hire/fire someone if I wanted to). I more took it offensively because I've been positions like GBA before, where instead of doing visible work that people say "oh wow, he made ____," I was doing things constantly behind the scenes. It was always "This broke, fix it" or "This guy went inactive, replace him as leader." That's the kind of position management is in, and it gives everyone an automatic bad reputation when all you do is keep things normal (and never get to give that new thing). It just feels ridiculous to me when players who aren't on RC and actually being led by the manager complain about them. It isn't really their job at that level to be a popular guy with the people.

Maybe what we need is a revamped Player Services department. Have a "PSA" again (Player Services Admin) that would be elected by players. He can manage the directly player-impacting side of the house (like gang administration, PRAs, ETAs, etc), while a "Development Manager" helps make new stuff. The Development Manager can continue to be selected solely by the PWA. Obviously they could overrule the choice of PSA as well, but it would be "rule of thumb" to go with the player's choice except in extraordinary circumstances. It would be a win-win in my eyes.

Honestly. I'm sure staff knows the difference between me being offensive and friendly. If i wanted to overthrow the manager, i would have attempted it with other measures but that's not what i want here. Definitely not.

You're right. We need somebody here for the players. I'm sure we can both agree that there is a missing gap between the players and staff. It's like they're against each-other all the time.

That's not right, staff should be for the players not themselves and the players should be for the staff. We need somebody who cares about the players and somebody who has power/influence. Somebody who can make sure players aren't being treated badly etc.

We need a respected report system. The current one is over looked,old and not really used in a way it should be.
This is getting off-topic again but i liked how your post was going. We also need that.

Can I be dictator again?

I sincerely apologize for derailing completely, and also for jumping to conclusions about your post, we just hear it a lot from players and we're all doing the best we can (so it gets pretty frustrating). But hear me out for another minute.

I mean, that's always been what the PRA, GBA, and ETA were supposed to be (and at one point FAQA and GPA instead of PRA), but now they're all managed by the Manager (when we used to have a Dev Admin and Player Services Admin). And I've always personally thought of Manager as a position that should be able to focus on development, and as it turns out, most managers have been developers.

Maybe it would make sense to split the two entirely. And I think it does go along with your original post - players shouldn't be able to choose the development manager, because we all know most of them don't have the slightest idea what goes in to producing software. But Players know exactly what they want in terms of gang leaders, special events, rule enforcement, etc. Why not let them have more of a say in who gets to be Player Services Admin?

PSA sounds good. So does Stephens idea about reping current manager.

The question is.. Will the PSA be in it to help players out or just in it for themselves (like previous ones).

Support system needs revamped imo. A PSA & Active PRA need to be hired. (Friendly one, who listens and respects players).

I don't think PR's, PRA's & PSA's get it. They're suppose to defend the players and try get them of their bans, jail terms. They're suppose to solve the issues not make things worse. We can both agree that they have been a little to harsh over the years and as a result of this the player count has been effected.

As a former staff member myself, i've seen the support system and the sloppy replies people got that did not help them whatsoever, people being ignored etc etc. It's just not on.

It got to the stage where i had planned my message to hit out at the current manager but i was fired for standing up for people before hand. It has always been corruption within eras staff team. (I dunno about now) but it's been that way for years.

Now i'm starting to go off topic >_<

So what i believe what we need right now is.

1. Stephens Idea so we can rate managers.
2. A PSA & Active PRA (Friendly, caring members)
3. A support system that needs to be treated correctly & players must be treated respectively within them.

I think we would be getting of to a good start if these were implemented.

If the PSA answered directly to the players instead of to the manager, it would solve the problem of them not listening to players. In all the old circumstances, there was always a manager on top who was often solely focused on development. The day-to-day life of the server came second to a lot of them. If the PWA were willing to actively maintain both the PSA and Manager spot on Era, and were also willing to use an opinion poll as a strong determinant of who gets to be PSA, it would make the people who should be answering to players more accountable to public opinion (while keeping those who are doing the technical aspects shielded from dealing with it).

The development manager would be entirely in charge of getting things made, and the PSA would be in charge of releasing/supporting them. If the development manager wasn't getting things done quickly enough, the PSA would be in a good position to complain to PWA. And if the PSA doesn't get things done quick enough, the players could vote him out a month later. Everyone is accountable to somebody, and it's ultimately up to the players.

So when are we going to just strip the management position with a council of 5 that work together in a voting system? Managers are nothing but a failure due to every single point Amsel has made. Giving ONE person the power to ruin everything is ALWAYS bad. I know from experience because I'm slapped with a permanent ban because ONE person decided that he DIDN'T like me so he stripped me of my PRA position and banned me on false evidence. It's like a third world country, everyone is scared to stand up and do something because at the end of the day ONE person has the say and it doesn't matter how many others disagree.

Simply put, if you are ever in a leadership role and everyone is happy to have you there --- you are overlooking crucial parts of your duties, and probably not doing as well of a job as you should be.

It is more common than not that real leaders will have to make unpopular decisions for the betterment of whatever they are working on.

Valikorlia has a manager more or less just to speak with the globals, as we seem to do much better with a council of friends that know how to handle things.

It's easier when your staff are most of your players.

LOL I know right!

I can see that you and snake doesn't have that problem on iphone era

Well Praise Koho for breaking the silence. I believe players of Era have been silenced and mistreated for far to long. To be honest PRA's seem more for banning sprees rather than helping players. The last thing we need is another Godzilla.

I think we can all agree that players shouldn't be able to decide anything more than what gun they use.

Well that's the wrong mindset time =l. I think most staff fail to realize this caught up in power/rights. What is a game without players? Without players why would era continue making new content? You're essentially saying; "We're are going to improve on so to try and improve the player count" yet you don't want to consider anything the players want. Their you're key to success =P.
Sooner or later players will start to rebel and sooner or later they will stop playing because they have no say in making there experience better. I think people like Zao fail to realize this because they've been in power so long. I don't even think zao knows what it feels like to be a 'player' any more...

He lost a betspar to me (3-0) like a month ago for the Manager position, but there wasn't a PR present so it didn't count.

He used to be better than me at sparring, this statement is therefore true.

Tim_Rocks for manager

lol @ democracy

http://25.media.tumblr.com/f2d7afd24...1456o1_500.gif

Overused jokes aside, If Era's staff can be better with communication towards its player base, then they wouldn't have these kinds of issues potentially popping forward.

A guy like you wouldn't have the slightest idea what it even means.

Been reading through some comments as i'm limited on time at the moment.

I guess some good points has came from this thread and things can be taken from it. As a player you try and speak up and help the community out and you get back-lashed from idiots like this, trying to better the game experience.

Absolutely clueless.

I think we can all agree that some changes can be made. Like some of the ones previously discussed. I even got told by an admin that "Zao is a facist, he doesn't and wont have a co-manager, because he doesn't want a threat to his position, he is german afterall" Those were the words. I disagree because like i said Zaos a friend and listens when you put across your points but obviously there's some tension building up in there somewhere.

This thread wasn't and isn't to bash anyone. I believe era's future lies within ALL of our hands, not just staff. We all play a huge part. This is why we need to get along.