Originally Posted by blackbeltben (Post 1710795)

You don't want it up/?

Originally Posted by Felix_Xenophobe (Post 1710797)

idea 6:
worthwhile content

we can do this all day bro

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1710803)

I've had a lot of people give kudos for the content Classic has produced over the last few years, but at the end of day, trials log out in frustration when they enter observer mode (or realise there's few players, which also has a lot to do with restrictions and pricing), and Graal's owner(s) openly say this is the goal.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710805)

Not true, I would play Graal the Adventure (Classic) but I have already beaten that game. I have finished all quest's. Maxed my bomb.. If other people had reason to stay online maybe I could score a TCG match or event.. I religiously pay for Graal on multiple accounts. I would upgrade others to but current lack of content is a bigger issue then the trial restrictions in place.. I can buy my way around the restrictions, I cant buy more content for classic.. You obviously are mad at the owners and taking it out on those of us with Lifetime accounts AND Gold accounts. *cough* selfish and rude *cough*

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1710829)

I think you're missing the point here. The purpose of this thread appears to be aimed towards attracting a new audience, you'd played through on an account which was upgraded prior to visiting Classic.

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1710829)

In the case of Classic, those new players who do try the game tend to have had their 5 hours "free time" used up elsewhere, even on servers where observer mode is disabled.

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1710829)

It's important to consider that Classic is supposed to revolve strongly around Questing and Competition, not things like grinding or leveling up stats.

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1710829)

In terms of competition, we haven't allowed trials into events because of the disruption observer mode would cause, there isn't even a way to determine a trial's remaining "free time". Then there's the trading card game, which tends to last more than 5 minutes, which if you're a trial makes it difficult to avoid entering OM mid game.
Even if I were to release a mini-game or two as a form of grinding as part an economy, trials would still end up prohibited.

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1710829)

The one thing most people seem to agree on is that players attract players, and I know other servers have different circumstances, but had trials not been on the receiving end of such torment then it's conceivable that upgraded players would have greater reason to stick around. The 2 weeks of free gold was far from anything special in terms of numbers, yet a clear sign of how things can click if allowed to.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710864)

Those are infact not "new" new players but old new players who probably had accounts created prior to the release of Classic. Not really a fair comparison.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710864)

We pay, we deserve more then those who do not pay.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710864)

We have to move on to a server whom cares about those of us that do pay for graal.

Originally Posted by Starfire2001 (Post 1710885)

Kind of a bold statement there to say that every new player that tries Classic isn't actually new, no? :asleep: I know that at least in the case of UN, we do get a few new players who hear about us from iPhone classic, even a very few that pay the subscription price and stick.



Nobody is arguing against that, but the difference has to be within reason. Right now, on the servers that weren't lucky/smart enough to jump in with Zod and Era and get observer mode removed, the people who pay or have paid a long time ago get to play the game normally. Those who don't pay have to deal with a restriction that makes the game essentially unplayable. The game is only fun with players. And obviously, the more players there are, the more chance there is that some of them decide to pay.


Again speaking from UN's perspective, if we were given any opportunity to set up some sort of system that allowed us to either give paying players some sort of a bonus or force some more reasonable restrictions on trials in exchange for the removal of observer mode, I would start work on it immediately. Got plenty of ideas that I think could work, if anyone cared would list them! We'll never be allowed to do this though because we don't have the trust of management, and we'll never get that trust because management isn't interested in having any sort of relationship with us.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710887)

You also failed to mention GK doesnt have OBS mode too.. its not just Era and Zodiac and GK isn't thriving like everyone claims would happen with removal of OBS mode.. -_- so your gonna need a stronger argument then just remove obs mode.

Originally Posted by Starfire2001 (Post 1710894)

UN had a pretty obvious player count increase when we had the two weeks of free gold. One player even made ET lol, though he then quit when he went back to being a trial.

GK is hurt by being on the Gold list. The Classic servers have a base of players with Classic accounts. Not many people are willing to pay for Gold, so GK doesn't have a huge base of players with Gold accounts. Players attract players. If I see a list of servers, I'm most like to go on the ones that have people on them before I go on those that have few, esp when it's obvious before you even log in you are going to have to pay to play them properly.

Edit:
Also, you seem to think that people would upgrade if Era and Zod were made into Gold servers. I think it's far more likely Classic players from those servers would just quit. If UN was made into a Gold server I absolutely wouldn't play it anymore.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710900)

oh no.. i think if era merged with iEra and became a gold server that people would upgrade.. BIG difference there (about 1200 difference)..

also GK is full blown unrestricted with the exception of Levels (and you can't join a kingdom)... which most people don't use kingdoms.. and it's extreamly hard for a trial to achieve level 10 on there own.. like jaw dropping hard without someone power leveling you. while lifetime from being playerworld rather then gold would help it wouldnt help it enough to lets say even equal UN.. and it would have by far less restrictions then UN.. maybe you could explain that?

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710887)

The point is you want Trials to be F2P... and instead of screwing them over you now want those of us who pay for graal to get nothing extra. You want US to be screwed for paying $60+ a year.. thanks man you really care about us..

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710887)

We can't even start from scratch and work on Classic (GTA) ourselves.. that would be like saying I want to make Era so lets clone it.. it would never be released.. You wont develop anything new yet you wont let us do it.. you took something historic and screwed ALL OF US.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710887)

Actually I upgraded just to be able to play Classic on a second account since I had already completed ALL quest's on my lifetime account.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710887)

Those are infact not "new" new players but old new players who probably had accounts created prior to the release of Classic. Not really a fair comparison.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710887)

Yeah I understand that but we (everyone on Graal) completed ALL of the quests prior to it's release with promises that there would be no further updates to Classic and that you gave up on Graal why should we play with an attitude like that?

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710887)

Trials aren't suspose to be allowed into event's as it is.. Congratulations on following the rules :)

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710887)

And correct me if I am wrong but the mines are located south of the bridge "Mine Entry West". So even if the "map restriction" for Trials were implimented and eliminating the Observer Mode that your throwing a huge fit about trials would be able to do the first quest, get card's and play with others, mine (maybe craft things or buy things or potential for a side quest aside from the main storyline?).

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710887)

Yeah but we beat Classic, saw the end credits and everything. We have to move on to a server whom cares about those of us that do pay for graal. We pay, we deserve more then those who do not pay.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710887)

Well, talking to thor a week or 2 ago.. maybe even 3.. he said they were offered OBS to be removed.. but they had to block the bridge leading to the north side of the map off from trials.. talking a little longer he changed his story to no it was not an offer it was a for sure thing being forced down there throats..

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1710925)

I've scripted roughly 95% of the server from scratch, which also consists almost entirely of custom scripted systems, have been working on it non-stop for 5 and a half years (as has Racil), with over 13,000 hours online time. If that's not enough for you, I'm sorry.


I have never refused anybody the opportunity to develop who had provided significant good & useful examples of what they're capable of (providing a link to someone else's code threads saying that you understand how it works doesn't cut it for me), and didn't have a recent ban/corruption history. I'd like nothing more than to get back to working on Quests in order to further the storyline and to expand the world, but unfortunately there are fundamental problems (some ofwhich beyond our control) which render efforts futile.


I hope you understand that the quests are not necessarily aimed at those who have already established themself on Graal, nor are they in any way intended to keep players constantly occupied. Their primary function is to provide a sense of purpose and direction to legitimately new players.


You can usually tell roughly how new/old a trial is by their account name, guests use their PCID, whereas Graal###### accounts are incremented each time an account is created. I observe this happening with both older and fresh trial accounts.


I don't blame you for not playing, I wouldn't expect anybody to be playing with no hope of future updates and there already being hardly any players. But then why should we, the developers, continue voluntarily putting in so much effort, as we have done for a very long time as it is, when on top of having restrictions that conflict our aims (something we've already tried hard to get by with), we've been lied to and deceived for the last 14 months?

Do you think you'd still be motivated under the same circumstances?


I have never seen any documentation explaining that trials aren't allowed to play events on PlayerWorlds, only Gold servers (where observer mode is removed). Nor was it brought to staff's attention that they shouldn't be allowed in July 2007 when observer mode was implemented (I happened to be staff at the time).

As far as I know the exclusion of trials from events has always been an indirect consequence of observer mode, rather than a deliberate restriction.
This is the closest acknowledgement of the problem I'm aware of:
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...87#post1338487



That would be an even more watered-down experience than at present.



It's been 5 and a half years since the ability to purchase lifetime accounts was removed, Classic had already reached a very low point in playercount by 2009, having previously seen its average playercount be cut in half every 2 years since P2P was implemented.

Thus it was decided (and not just by myself) to try something new, to make the server more coherent, to give it a higher proportion of quality, so that it could eventually at least be capable of hooking new players. I have sympathy for those few who have paid money to play Classic, but given the choice, I'm sure most would feel the money was better spent if they were able to regularly play events and card games with trials.

Also keep in mind that PlayerWorld developers do not get a cut of such paid money, it's never been an intention of mine, but if it were the case I'm sure things would be much different across all of Graal.


This is actually how it happened, not a change of story. Initially I thought it was a suggestion, and so I made a counter-suggestion, then later I was told this is the format it will be. Bell can verify that.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710938)

Notice URL:
http://graalonline.com/playerworlds/stores/signup

And also from the page before that, where I got the url from the sentence the link was actually from.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710938)

And yes I would still be motivated..

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710938)

I offered to assist developing and you wouldn't even let me prove myself.

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1710948)

That page is for Zone, if I changed the url to say Kingdoms instead of PlayerWorlds it would still work:
http://graalonline.com/kingdoms/stores/signup

Graal Skills too (lol):

http://graalonline.com/skills/stores/signup


It didn't seem like you were motivated to get much done to help Npulse get off the ground.
Looking back, I think it's fair to say the only server Managers that have been in a similar predicament within the modern era of Graal are Ziro and Crow, who both cited observer mode as a stumbling block to their efforts.


I asked you multiple times to provide me some examples to show what you're capable of, which you not only failed to produce, but reacted in such a way that suggested it was your divine right to develop on the server.
Maybe this is an inconvenient truth, but I'm very strict with the manner in-which things are coded (very abstract & compartmentalized), so as to avoid similar problems/conflicts to what Classic experienced throughout the pre-wipe years.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710951)

No I worked hard to help N-Pulse, they removed me because they didn't like me at the time. For what ever reason.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710951)

And you asked me that the first time I talked to you when I wasn't able to provide you any work and told you I would come up with examples.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710951)

The next time we talked you said not to even bother..

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710951)

the 3rd time we talked about it you said you wernt even interested in letting people work for you or some stupid reason..

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710951)

after i had put alot of work into making examples to show you.. you treated me like ****

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710951)

just like you treat anyone else.. alot of people have told me how you treat them and use the word "douche" when reffering to you when i stood up for you anyways..

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710951)

i have been helping multiple servers for over 8 years.. well more then your stupid 13,000 hours

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710983)

I specifically linked you to MY post's not FP4's dont try and pull that **** on me. I also mentioned you could look at 90% of my threads ive started and see more examples.

While yes I said my name was scriptless because I do not save scripts to use as examples.. there on the forums but I never use the same script twice.. im always improving it..

The 3rd time we spoke I asked if you were interested in letting me help.. I don't have the pm logs on this pc.. im wondering if they were on my other hard drive before it crashed ot the pc down stairs that needs a power supply. i can check sometime in the next week or so on the pc down stairs (i know i asked you at least once on that one)..

but you basically said that i was wasting your time by asking you if you would be willing to let me prove yourself. im thinking the context was more twards just show me.. but im pretty sure you said at some point that because of my posts on the forums you didnt find me mature enough or something along the lines of not getting along with some people on the forums.. i do recall some of the details just not all of them.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710983)

As for what server's i've helped on sure I can provide you a list but since im nto the manager of them and the managers just gave up and stopped paying for them alot of them are not around anymore.

I've helped script on some of these servers since about 2003/2004:
n-pulse
zemi
graal apocalypse
delteria
val
esteria
Draenin's server
and a bunch of other UC servers that I cant think of nor can i load the rc to look them up (windows 8 wont let me use external rc)..

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1710983)

any server that needs my help.. any person that needs assistant i lend a hand.. im not a jerk like you.. i actually care about the community..

Ive helped debug scripts on Era, GK, not as staff but over AIM/Skype with people who worked there and couldnt figure stuff out.

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1711009)

Well that's odd, at first you told me Npulse were wasting your time, and you'd like to work on Classic because it's exactly the same as what you'd come up with anyway.

And for the record, although I may not actively go out of my way to help others in the manner some other commendable developers do, I've still provided countless people with scripting help, I've even tried to help you in a thread you created in the scripting forums.

Originally Posted by xXziroXx (Post 1711021)

TO BE FAIR, I WAS ALSO REJECTED BY THIS THOR CHARACTER :cry::cry::cry::cry:

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711068)

Like I mentioned, I am not the only one that thinks hes a jerk. He obviously has no care for the players of Graal anymore.. thats why he makes these comments like "Graal doesn't deserve Classic".. just because he has personal problems with Stefan. So hes taking it out on ALL of us.

And ziro, we all know your a good scripter. Thor just doesn't want anyone working on Classic's scripts. I believe he even said so a year or 2 ago when I was talking to him about it. Even when I proposed to help him without RC, without seeing the scripts. He was just very unreasonable.

Originally Posted by xXziroXx (Post 1711071)

My last post was meant to be super hardcore. Really. By the way, any self respecting server manager with any kind of development skills will be a jerk. It's not neccessarily a bad thing. It's one of the traits you're required to have in order to be able to deal with the horde of idiotic people out there.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711072)

Id rather see someone whom is professional rather then a jerk.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711068)

Like I mentioned, I am not the only one that thinks hes a jerk. He obviously has no care for the players of Graal anymore.. thats why he makes these comments like "Graal doesn't deserve Classic".. just because he has personal problems with Stefan. So hes taking it out on ALL of us.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711068)

And ziro, we all know your a good scripter. Thor just doesn't want anyone working on Classic's scripts.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711068)

And yes you have tried to help in a threat or 2, do you want a cookie?

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711146)

Screw it. See attachment. You said Stefan but you insisted that the rest of us don't matter as long as your sticking it to stefan pretty much.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711146)

Lucky for me this also contains the 3rd time we spoke about scripting position. Where you pushed me off to WD and just ignored me after that. I showed you an example of a script and you said you didn't need that kind of script.. Which is besides the point.. the point was to show you the progression of my scripting skills.. you really want to start an argument here on this thread completely off subject then do it.. go for it.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711152)

Yeah you won't develop new content for the players because you hate the owners.. way to respect us dude.. way to respect us.. we pay for graal the owenrs do not.. and you wont even give us any new content.. you completely decided to halt al actions.. to protest thigns that havent even happened yet... ::applauds you::

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711152)

Yeah you won't develop new content for the players because you hate the owners.. way to respect us dude.. way to respect us.. we pay for graal the owenrs do not.. and you wont even give us any new content.. you completely decided to halt al actions.. to protest thigns that havent even happened yet... ::applauds you::

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711158)

No I am upset that he is convincing others and not allowing those of us who want to volunteer out time. Lets assume someone decides they want to revive Classic.. they can't because it already exists.. He doesn't want to develop for Classic anymore.. read the whole PM history in the previous post.. it's proof enough. Ask Racil... they decided what, 3 ? 4? weeks ago that they gave up on Classic. Since they gave up give us a chance to do something. I know he put alot of hard work into it.. take it down and let us start from scratch then.. anything at this point is more productive then his counter productive attitude.

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711158)

UN has those restrictions too.. they seem to be doing fine..

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711158)

you want paid ? thats completely fine.. i got a $2000 bankroll that I was handing out gold so players could play YOUR server prove to me that you actually give 2 shits and make a quest.. if i dont come thru with my end and donate you money then quit developing

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711158)

but dont you dare treat us like **** becasue you have beef with the owners..

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711169)

Only 5 years? I have been putting my all into servers for over 8-10 years. I may not have anything to show for it because Managers stopped flipping the bill once all there other staff left.. its hard to keep a server owner interested when it's just 2 staff..

Originally Posted by scriptless (Post 1711169)

and you have no trial restrictions to worry about.. i have said i have taken care of that problem by handing out FREE GOLD... are you retarded or somethign? i solved that problem.. offered to pay you and your still comming up with excuses why you wont do anything nice for those of us who still pay for gaal.. u know people even pay for gold just to IDLE on gk? right.. you have hurt any chance your server has of attracting new.. or even old players.. who are pissed that you nerfed there questing status.. and not given them any new content.

Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1711171)

Oh and btw these reps are killing me:

Originally Posted by blackbeltben (Post 1710735)

Idea 2

Windows 8 app Store
For those who do not have Windows 8, It's pretty cool. There is an App store, much like the Apple app store, where you can buy and download games. And a lot of stuff on there is free.
I have explored the app store front and back, and there really isn't an good online games on there. If Stefan puts the download on there soon, I guarantee people will download it in a heart beat.

Originally Posted by Godoco (Post 1711352)

RC isnt even on Windows 8 yet..

Originally Posted by Tricxta (Post 1711355)

What does that have to do with anything? Btw it never will be, you'll be forced to use client rc.