Improvement: Job Specialities ?
 

• What is it ?
  Okay well, it's a recent idea to improve Graal Kingdoms.
  
  
  
• Why ?
  -To get more players ?
  -MORE and MORE content
  
  
  
• How would this work?
  If you ever played Graal Kingdoms long enough yourself, you might know how alchemy mainly works. When you don't know a recipe yourself (rare or not) you ask for help ! Someone who already learnt that recipe can help you.
  So, basicaly, it would consist of a job you'd choose to learn within the existing jobs, and you make it your own speciality !
  
  For exemple, a barbarian could become a blacksmith or maybe a woodcrafter.
  With either a new set of sats or the existing ones the level in that job could be high. Depending on your level in that job, you and maybe a few others would be able to make a unique item.
  
  
  
• How would it improve Graal Kingdoms dramatically ?
  About the content. Yes, it's all about the content.
  Right now, most of items can only be made through alchemy !
  This shouldn't work like that at all. A blacksmith should be able to make a whole set of weapons and more.
  If there is ever job specialities on Graal Kingdoms, then I am myself ready to make a large set of weapons and of course new items to use in order to craft.
  
  Think about it, new weapons, new content, that's all you GK Players ever wanted, and always beg for.
  Job Specialities might be the solution. Moreover, with a new range or set of weapons, variety on GK would never be a problem.

Suggested before, but finally someone who is willing to take on the graphical work needed.
I'd very much love for this to happen as long as every job is seen as equal. Like you've pointed out that Smithing should have more options to craft weapon and armor than alchemy.

I could see Blacksmithing opening the doors to lots of new armor, and alchemy acting as a sort of enchantment job. So the two compliment eachother; the blacksmith forges Black Mail, the alchemist uses the Black Mail along with a few other ingredients and transforms it into a better mail.

I think that it would be best if each player were also limited to 1 or 2 jobs. It seems unrealistic in an RPG that someone could master and therefore specialise in every job. There should be a Primary and Secondary. The secondary increases in exp 5% slower than the primary.

This could fix alot of current problems and really improve the content as you've said. Someone who specs in mining should see faster mining (relate it to str and energy also please) with higher chances to recieve multiple ores and gems. To aid specing new content added like a gem mine (diamonds, rubys, sapphires, emeralds, and of great values too). The economy would move away from using diamonds as a currency (as long as new coins or a new system to make carrying cash not such a burden).

Just using mining as an example since i feel it's been neglected for so long.
But other skills need work too, could even add new skills.

Completely, that's it !
Seriously, there is a lot of options with job specialities that we could explore.



EDIT: Need to precise, class doesn't matter on the job you can choose, at all (as some people asked).

It'll feel weird though... A barbarian doing alchemy :oo:
Perhaps certain classes progress (10% more exp) faster than other classes depending on their chosen job so a Barbarian choosing alchemy would level at the normal rate (if it's their primary job) but a Sorcerer would level much faster, unless it's their secondary job.

Don't take it like that.
As I've said, class doesn't matter. If you're barbarian, rp-wise let's say you were born barbarian.

Should I post an exemple from real life ? I hope you get it.

Don't go all communist on me :p
I just have a real issue with GK and how everyone is equal in everything. A barbarian can rape a mage, USING MAGIC. And vise versa. Your fundamental decisions at the start of kingdoms should affect your playing forever. Otherwise, you might aswell call everyones classes: adaptive :oo:

Hhmm you're right on this, but if we change it like that, it would mean everyone has to be reseted >_<

Not neccessarily. Alterations can be made without resetting. And appropriate compensation issued (although compensation can be ignored since players would probably given a choice on what they wish to spec in).

I am willing to script it sometime if you can start to plan some stuff and get some graphics ready, then after you have basic concepts worked up, we could maybe plan it more in detail together and create it. It is sort of a plan that I would have liked to add to GK for a while now, but have had more important things I wanted to get done first

I'm up for it, but I feel there are other basic "needs" gk should acquire before expanding that far.

EDIT: Nice to have a comment from Tig every once in a while concerning these things, I feel as though we get ignored a lot.

A reset would most likely lower the player count allot more I would think.

It wouldn't. Just need to add a new level (job level) something like that. That gains unique exp.

Anyway, since Soala suggested it, and he is part of the GDT. Why not appoint him as the project manager for this? Give him debug access and let him get some people together to start producing these graphics we need.

You're being very broad about this. Kingdoms' fundamental problem is that anyone can specialize in anything, thanks to the leveling system being so open-ended.

What you seem to be suggesting is something like stat bonuses you could get based on your class, but the thing is, the stats only go so far. And plus, this would have to work for all skills. Not just alchemy. Some of the skills we have aren't used for anything, quite frankly, like Thaumaturgy and Bowyer.

yeah i agree limitations should be placed on skills for certain classes at the moment its possible to get the max level in everything limitations would be a good way to differentiate between them

like a barbarian could get max strength high agility terrible magic mental and personality and probably a mediocre wisdom

or a mage could get max magic mental mediocre agility ok wisdom and personality and terrible phys


but this would only be applicable in my opinion when all the systems get an upgrade to a degree
in my opinion
phys works, though i know people complain, it works

mental is fine to a degree though everyone is level 110 with that recipe and the ability to level so fast shouldn't really be there, but more recipes that require a higher mental to learn and higher fail rate would be nice, especially more potions that would be helpful would be good

magic need to be build on as does wisdom though not really as much as magic after about level 20 there's no point leveling and if you have low enough stats you may even make it so you can't cast spells

personality really doesn't do much, charming a bomy isn't useful

agility doesn't either..

but idea's for how these skills should be made better should be talked about here in gk suggestions.

i hear alot of how things are broken and need to be fixed, but not alot of ideas how to go about it.





to this suggestion yes i like it, i think crafting has been neglected alchemy can produce much better weapons and armor where as i think you should be able to make good armor with both, more so with crafting, and great armor with alchemy using a good armor made by crafting if that makes sence,

but more materials and choices like finding tin and copper and making bronze that could bronze armor pieces iron, steel, maybe having choices to add certain things like rubies, saphs to change the color.
making separate parts to weapons, handle-guard-blade and being able to customize them,
it would need a revamp to how the crafting menu works i believe and be gfx intensive and take a while to do i believe, but would be good none the less lol

but more craftable possibilities materials maybe have certain materials only on some kingdom islands where you would have to go to the kingdom islands to get them.
having mines on the kingdom islands would be good for the idea :) really don't need to emphasize on how little the game is by trying to keep everyone on the main island need to think at least a little big for it to be get big :P

jeweler getting different materials to add to rings for certain stat improvements or decreases

more monsters, suggested alot, need people who can gfx make them though >.< but anyway yeah not all necessarily bad..
GK is terrible for all the creatures being grumpy...
but personality based having pets learn skills and actually have them as pets if you tame them.

if you know spells being able to write them onto books to learn

builders we have to make the scrolls and levels for houses but upgrading your house with generic upgrades with levels and use them scrolls for the customizability of it with your own levels
being able to build a second bloor and basement maybe a proper stable addon or a small forge wood shop with just generic levels in the different kingdom house styles. they wouldn't have and scripted effects or anything buy we also wouldn't need to keep bothering tig to do our houses

a herbalist being able find herbs that others don't take notice of so don't see but they could be used for alchemy or other uses that anyone can think of :P

expand the fishing to types of fish as opposed to color of fish

expanding the farming system maybe making it a longer period to grow that allows you to grow more but takes time doing it

cant think of anymore now lol



i think the weapon damages should be thought out aswell 1 iwd can make next to any weapon better then most and 2 iwds makes it better then any non-prepared weapon, there are exceptions but im talking about the majority of weapons..

things like daggers ranging from 1 - 10 damage is good swords 11 - 20 axes look like they require 2 hands so should really disallow the shield being equipped and should be along the 21 - 40 to make an actual difference in the weapons damage wise daggers and swords are most commonly used
daggers are fast and swords are a bit stronger though a bit slower but has that extra range
it seems like the axe is just slow, not as versatile as a sword but has near enough the same damage making it a bad choice to have. though i believe bows are done well.

i would like to see the shield work outside spar aswell though i think im like the only one who uses it lol

I like the idea. It would give people more things to do. you could also expand it in many different ways. like the miner could get a special pick axe, that only a miner can wield, that make the mining faster in a way. I've always liked that idea. Will give incentives for people to pick miner.

I like majin's idea, all the jobs should have incentives so no job is left out, and there should be a limit on how many jobs you can pick. If you pick a job you should always be able to change it, but if you change your exp will be reset to zero in the job you changed. to keep people from just changing from job to job, but they can at a price. If they want to change jobs.

could also make a fisherman eventually, but you would have to make a better fishing system. draxx was making a great fishing system. i bet he still has the gfx for it.

and a baker that can bake food better, but you would have to make a few changes to the food system to make this one fair.

This is what gk needs is ideas like this that can bring in new content, and fix some of the old system.

You could also maybe have a hunter class that gets rare drops to make the items. as he levels up he gets better drops from certain monsters.

That would be cool, Hunter collects items, blacksmith makes items, and alchemist enchants items. And maybe you could make a jeweler that cuts the gems to be able to enchant the item.

This would be pretty balanced. It would keep people from making too much money but would be a good way of making money, but only if players were limited to 2 jobs at a time. it's just a rough sketch off the top of my head. but use these ideas as you wish or tell me if i'm wrong.

I don't really agree with that. There are a lot more things kingdoms actually needs before even daring to expand this far the way things are going.

Bonuses for classes are already scaled by default. But it doesn't matter since you can max every stat with items if you wanted to.


You guys also aren't thinking much about the fact that every leveling category (Physical, Agility, Mental, Wisdom, etc.) would need an equal amount of crafting / gathering trades associated with it. As of right now, this is how the abilities are linked:

Agility

disarm traps
use tools
stealing
hiding

Physique

throwing
agriculture
mining
fishing
melee weapons
punching
karate
missile weapons
jumping

Mental

find traps
use magic item
literacy
baking
crafting
thaumaturgy
woodsman
smithery
jeweler
alchemy
bowyer

Magic

wizardry
sense magic
sense curse

Personality

oratory
singing

Wisdom

praying

Misc

mountaineer
bargaining

As you can see, many of these abilities are unevenly distributed to the categories, and the additional thing that complicates what you're saying is that every one of these categories would need some kind of ability that depends entirely upon the player's level in a category.

For one, GK does not have a system in place that supports level-based crafting or level-based gathering, nor does it have the content available to fill gaps for all those levels, and half the abilities listed don't work as they should anyway.

That's what I hate about GK

Everything is equal...like having 1 primary class.

Why it's a suggestion - for improvement.
For this to work, the current system of leveling would need to be re-vamped; this is obvious.

Your general skills should look more like this:

Agility

disarm traps
use tools
stealing
hiding

Physique

throwing
melee weapons
punching
karate
missile weapons

Mental

find traps
literacy
woodsman
jeweler

Magic

use magic item
wizardry
sense magic
sense curse

Personality

oratory
singing

Wisdom

thaumaturgy
prayer

Misc

mountaineer
bargaining

Professions/Specialties

alchemy - Bonuses: alchemist
agriculture - Bonuses: Priest
mining - Bonuses: Barbarian
fishing - Bonuses: Equality
baking - Bonuses: Sorcerer
crafting - Bonuses: Equality
smithery - Bonuses: Warrior
bowyer - Bonuses: Thief

More like this, perhaps:

Agility (Attuned Class: Thief)

Stealing
Lockpicking
Bowyer

Physique (Attuned Class: Warrior)

Melee
Mining
Smithery

Mental (Attuned Class: Alchemist)

Literacy
Woodsman
Alchemy

Magic (Attuned Class: Sorcerer)

Wizardry
Jeweler
Thaumaturgy

Personality (Attuned Class: Bard?)

Singing (Actual song spells, not the way it works now.)
Oratory
Bargaining

Wisdom (Attuned Class: Priest)

Prayers
Cleansing (Works like disenchanting.)
Blessing (Works like enchanting.)

Color notes:

Red: Combat Skill
Green: Gathering Skill
Blue: Refining Skill

Other notes:

- General skills like crafting, use tools, baking, and so on would be general usage skills. The idea for stuff like the gathering skills is to make stuff only available to players at certain levels. (Similar to the way WoW makes it to where you have to be at higher levels to mine better minerals, gather better plants, etc.)

- Attunements would work in-game like they do now. For example, being attuned to things like 'Creation' makes it to where you can do things like the 'Create Food' spell and cast them as if you were several levels higher than someone without that attunement.

The same kinds of attunements could be given to players instead of segregating the abilities completely.

I like the idea. And the core specialazations into each class are spot on. But as a Thief, i'd wonder if it's worth it. Having attuned stealing wouldn't be very usefull considering it's only use is to gain exp fast.

It might be a good idea if each class had the 3 major specialazations you mentioned, plus 3 other minor specialazations. Which would be benefical for the likes of Theif, Alchemest and Bard, seeing as they don't have any real damage dealing perks.

I like the way you've displayed it. However, i still would prefer players to be limited to x amount of profession skills. 2 is the minimum since each class should have the ability to max their tailored professions without drawbacks. So i think 4 would be the perfect number. A warrior can max Mining & Smithing (Phys is a given because of class) aswell as choose from 2 of any other profession skills.

This is just my personal preference because i dislike the way things are now - class is irrelevant and has no benefits/limitations

I don't think they should choose from any other skills. That way you could get someone overpowered if they are a Warrior and take Wizardry + Prayers. They'd have the full offensive package, and a lot of people will do that because they'd value damage output to be more important that being able to use other skills.

You'd have to scale rewards.

For example, if your agility is at levels 1-10, you might only be able to steal minor loot like gold nuggets, arrows, etc. But as you move up, you can steal more useful things enemies typically carry. But the only reason why stealing goes 'fast' is because of Kingdoms' system where you can level any stat you want simply by readying the skill first. Leveling Agility quickly has nothing to do with Agility's skills at all. It has to do with players readying skills to siphon party exp into the stat category they want it to go into.
Class skills are not going to become limited, ever. That means restructuring the entire system, which will not happen.
Uh, that's the way it is now. Anyone can do anything if they just have the skills for it.

More stuff:

I don't think either of you are quite thinking much about the repercussions of limiting classes. As much as the classes should be segregated like they are in normal RPGs, it would be detrimental to Kingdoms' structure as a whole. Doing so would mean:

- Voiding everyone's hard-earned levels in categories other than their class default.
- Limiting players to only one fighting style. (It's not like stuff other than melee and some magic has been developed that well anyway.)
- Eliminating all skill scrolls.
- Placing hard restrictions on wieldable weapon types.
- Screwing the economy even harder.

The problem with pulling the classes apart is that it would severely limit players and give them far less opportunity to succeed in the future. Scroll writing, blessing, alchemy, and other skills are great moneymakers, and making them separate only upsets what balance we've already got going on.

What I propose is not taking classes apart, but simply finding ways to develop them more. If there were level-based rewards, it might become easier for players to level in different categories. I'll try to make up some scales later on so I can show everyone what I mean.

YES man i want that !, it would be cool

I said profession skills. Not combat. There would be no point of reform if people could simply go for Melee, Magic and Prayer.

I understand what your saying, and the current systems definitely need work. But we're not suggesting to simply reform without the addition of necessary content or procedures.

If we had a powerful development team i'd suggest something more grand. Multi-severs with different styles. The current in which original class doesn't matter further on in a players journey (earlier on phys is prefered). And one that is a step away from GK's origins, where class definitely matters. The one i've been trying to draw a picture off.

For what you, and what i, are suggesting, there needs to be development. And currently we're lacking in that as a server.

I have no experience scripting. or gfxing. graal needs to find tig some help. I remember pushing for tig to get into working on graal. look what happened there. he just needs help.

I always brought up draenin's work all the time when he wasn't around, cause i know he does good work on kingdoms, and he is smart and always tries to improve ideas, and give good constructive criticism. Usually a few days to a few weeks would come, and bam there he would be, either from people saying i was talking about him, or just him browsing the forums.

people need to give input. Of course people have some bad ideas, but there might just be a good idea in all those bad.

This is what graal needs is people that can work together and talented. Try and find the people that are talented enough, and willing enough to help GK. We need to pull people together to revive this server. I know i try to help all the time.

This sounds more like any RP actually

Okay I'm almost done with setting up the requirements and everything we need.
I should be able to create a new thread tomorrow displaying how things would work, with the graphics I've made aswell.
Let's hope I didn't forget anything that would ruin the gameplay, but I guess you guys will analyze it all ^^.