Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509195)

i think you are trying to create a reason for PWA to hire people they like, rather than people who have applied

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509195)

applications should be used as a way for the PWA to know which people want into the PWA, like in real jobs where you apply to make it known that you want the job. it shouldn't be said that applications are useless or unnecessary, because they aren't. further, once the application is done, only then can you really look at the person (interview) and then make a rational decision based upon the credentials and the impression

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509195)

just deciding that someone is good enough because you "know them" or "have seen them at work" isn't as great as when someone applies, waits, shows themselves as competent, and then is hired. i could care less if xor is PWA or not - i don't know a single thing about him, nor a single thing about why he was hired, other than he worked on zodiac and was apparently helpful to players. i also know FAQs on UN that help players out - why don't you go and watch them?

Originally Posted by Clockwork (Post 1509205)

Xor did not work his all the way to AAA. he started on it during its AAA.

Originally Posted by Lyndzey (Post 1509215)

No, that's not what I am saying at all. I don't think that an application is the best way to go about choosing someone for a global staff position. If the PWA wanted to only hire people they like, I'm sure they could have them send in an application and hire them that way.

I have had input on who should be hired for global positions before, and I felt the staff members we chose from applications turned out to be a lot worse than the ones we picked based on their experience on a staff team and their interaction with the community. I saw the same problem when I was hiring GPs for Classic as GP Chief. I hired this one person who had a great looking application, but turned out to be a horrible GP. From my experiences, applications are not the way to go for this game.



I do agree with you somewhat. Perhaps a mix of an application and experience with the person is the best way to go (such as TSAdmin). However, it is not reasonable to hire someone based only on an application and interview for this game. You cannot predict how that person will act as global staff unless you have seen how that person interacts with other players before. I'm sure someone can write a great application with lots of <3s all over, and have a nice interview as well. The problem is that unless global staff knows that person well, they would have no way of knowing how he/she treated other players, or whether or not he/she is corrupt or power hungry. You really need to know the player well before entrusting them with a global position.



I don't believe this is a case of Bell hiring Xor because she knows him. Xor was the Asst Manager of Zodiac, not a FAQ on UN. The two positions are incomparable. Look at the current PWAs: Bell (former Classic GP Asst Admin), TSAdmin (Former Admin at Era), Tig (GK Admin). They all held management positions that not only helped them gain skills that would be useful as a PWA member, but also gave them the opportunity to prove to the players and global staff that they would be a fair and respectful staff member.

[Edit]: I'm sorry for turning this into an argument, it was not my intention. I just wanted to attempt to explain why applications are not always used in the hiring process of globals. This thread really should be about congratulating Xor, and wishing him luck with his new position.

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509224)

i don't particularly care where or how a person got involved with staff, and i'm not trying to make a point that insult's xor or the fact he was hired. from the way he's being defended, it sounds as if he can be of help to people. but at least i've heard of people before they were hired, along with most of the active community

and also i wanted to just defend the people who tried and applied to be globals. it just doesn't seem fair that all of those people didn't make it, which is obvious from the current hire. so let me get this right: from what i'm being told, the correct way to get noticed by a global and invited to join the PWA is:

1) get a high ranking position on any server (chief, admin, manager)
2) don't swear and help players with their problems
3) know how to do something development-wise (LAT, GFX, scripting, SFX, ganis, etc.)

then just be patient? does the PWA regularly go onto RC to learn about people with these positions and judge them on their helpfulness and what they could add to the team, discussing it and then proceeding to either hire or not-hire? or was someone like xor a miracle happening; a rare discovery to be added to PWA?

Originally Posted by bell (Post 1509231)

its up to the gst to tear them into little pieces and see if they actually know what they're doing or not.

Originally Posted by Loriel (Post 1509230)

The only reason you need to hire your pals instead of people who send in an application is that everybody here is at best a volunteer and consequently always less professional and disciplined than the people you are comparing them to in your funny job market/major sports leagues analogies. It is way more useful that you know someone to whatever extent than that they manage to fill out the application form without drooling all over it if you want to judge how they will perform in any given position.

The whole nepotism accusation is pretty much as easy to make as calling everybody *****ing in this thread whining freeloaders who cannot be bothered to actually contribute to Graal in any significant way and instead pine for the presumably easy glory of a global staff position.

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509238)

i don't see where you get to go making rash generalizations

Originally Posted by Hiro (Post 1509238)

i don't know xor at all, so i can't support any type of favoritism in the hiring procedure, but the fact remains that the PWA clearly knew who he was when i, and many others, did not. it means they have to had been spending the time getting to know him through graal-a more preferable way in their opinion-but then why didn't they take the time to get to know all the other applicants or potential members on graal too?

Originally Posted by fowlplay4 (Post 1509247)

just get on your nerves.

Originally Posted by Loriel (Post 1509240)

I tried to not actually do that and instead just point out how easy it is!



Good thing they dictate their hiring process, then, right?



It is pretty ridiculous to assume that they picked out a dude at random and started paying attention to him over the applications forum just to spite you. It strikes me as much more plausible that Xor happened to have to deal with some PWA a lot through no fault of either of the involved parties and some sort of sufficient acquaintance was built up entirely lacking any malicious intent.

Edit: Wait why am I defending the PWA again; down with the oppressive global administration and their ridiculous hiring practices, etc.

Originally Posted by Scary_Sock (Post 1509252)

I might as well be honest on what will happen. This thread will close because of the flaming, and no one will speak of it again. If it DOES come up again, that thread will be deleted for another flame war, and deleted threads can NOT be re-created. But I agree, no one ever knew who Xor was, and I think that should be part of being a PWA to be known well on the community.

Originally Posted by Loriel (Post 1509240)

It is pretty ridiculous to assume that they picked out a dude at random and started paying attention to him over the applications forum just to spite you. It strikes me as much more plausible that Xor happened to have to deal with some PWA a lot through no fault of either of the involved parties and some sort of sufficient acquaintance was built up entirely lacking any malicious intent.

Edit: Wait why am I defending the PWA again; down with the oppressive global administration and their ridiculous hiring practices, etc.