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-   -   Bring back Classic levels and hit detection? (https://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85415)

BlackSolider 05-04-2009 05:47 PM
Does the poll represent a bunch of "old classic" players hoping for a nostalgic return of their beloved server?

Or does the poll represent a bunch of "current classic" players who are dissatisfied with the way things currently are, and thus voted to bring back the old stuff in hopes that it will solve a bunch of our problems?

Or does the poll represent a combination of both sides hoping for a better version of classic?

I don't have the answers since I can't see who all voted, but just be careful about coming to a conclusion from a simple poll that doesn't reach all the desired population.

contego 05-04-2009 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSolider (Post 1489014)
Does the poll represent a bunch of "old classic" players hoping for a nostalgic return of their beloved server?

Or does the poll represent a bunch of "current classic" players who are dissatisfied with the way things currently are, and thus voted to bring back the old stuff in hopes that it will solve a bunch of our problems?

Or does the poll represent a combination of both sides hoping for a better version of classic?

I don't have the answers since I can't see who all voted, but just be careful about coming to a conclusion from a simple poll that doesn't reach all the desired population.

No doubt it's a combination. The point is people do not like the current content. And this is supposed to be Classic server where it all started. If people want major changes to the game play, do so with a different server.

Let me be clear, Classic needs to remain Classic but with new things to attract folks to play. Development is key. But the problem is development took the wrong direction.

BlackSolider 05-04-2009 07:45 PM
Of our current problems, how many would be solved by implementing both the old levels and the old HD, however difficult it might be?

dmhabe 05-04-2009 08:30 PM
Your most important problem, player count, and restoring Classic.

contego 05-04-2009 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSolider (Post 1489034)
Of our current problems, how many would be solved by implementing both the old levels and the old HD, however difficult it might be?
A couple options, take current server and upload it to Dev Polo server. And then change the HD and levels and make proper repairs or simply just change HD and levels on the Classic server and start working off there and let players be the testers themselves. There will be a mess and it will get worse before it gets better. But it's basically like when servers had to go gs2 and alter to gmap. It's work but it should be done and can be done with the proper organization and management to see it through.

xnervNATx 05-04-2009 09:40 PM
im gonna say this only one time

dev suck and the review sucked

dc is inactive

gc dev work on....nothing (jade made hockey event hoora , when to be complete?)

gc refuse to host if they dont have a huge amount of players(gladius)

card game failed hard and now its a dump

one reason to quit

look at the management we have

how much idea were requested?
how much were actually accepted and MADE?

Corp1 05-05-2009 12:58 AM
The biggest draws for classic was the competition and the community. New HD and levels ruined the competition. And when I say competition I mean all the good players and guilds who competed like clockwork at all the hotspots. The only thing to do would be to undo what was done 5 years ago with the hit detection and levels, change classic back to classic.

The initial pop in players once the change happens will be due to everyone that plays now wanting a newer server to compete on. Classic being restored would be the equivalent of a new server. From there the Graal network kicks in, many of us have at least a few people that dont play graal anymore on the AIM buddylist just itching for something to take up a little time. Classic being restored is an easy sell. Just like SMB3 was an easy sell on the virtual console for the Wii. From there these people that come back may want to make a new guild or a new(old) guild, which will require them to upgrade...meaning paying MONEY.

If Classic is brought back, there will be a chance for Graal to make money just by these older players coming back and upgrading accounts to make guilds/families. You have to remember Classic was the place to be for the greatest competition; no other server could replicate the level of competition that Classic had. Classic killed the will for competition on the server by ******* the hit detection.


How this should play out:
1st step, restore old classic/hd...(2nd)then an initial pop in population resulting from current population migrating from every other server and the once-a-weekers becoming more committed to the game due to classic being restored. (3rd)Next would be recapturing a piece of that older lost playercount due to the graal community communicating that old classic is back. 4th would be these older players and current players recreating the competition level that classic was known for and creating new(& new/old) guilds. Creating new/old guilds would mean upgrading accounts, which equals MONEY. Or the older players now have money and its not a big deal dropping a few bucks for graal now, due to old account being lost.

Nothing but good would come out of restoring Classic.

Crono 05-05-2009 01:12 AM
I wonder how long it will take for most of you to realize that Classic died when Graal went full p2p.

-Ramirez- 05-05-2009 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1489093)
I wonder how long it will take for most of you to realize that Classic died when Graal went full p2p.
That's only half true. There was still a very good amount of players remaining who played after you had to pay, considering it was only a one-time payment.

Crono 05-05-2009 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Ramirez- (Post 1489094)
That's only half true. There was still a very good amount of players remaining who played after you had to pay, considering it was only a one-time payment.
But I'm sure it was a downwards slope the whole time, was it not? I remember this was a pattern on the other playerworlds too.

-Ramirez- 05-05-2009 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono (Post 1489099)
But I'm sure it was a downwards slope the whole time, was it not? I remember this was a pattern on the other playerworlds too.
I only recall a noticeable difference when things were radically changed by the inappropriately-appointed and highly intelligent (note: sarcasm) current older "manager".

MysticX2X 05-05-2009 02:47 AM
Semi-sure that even if these old quests were brought back, less than half of you would still enjoy them like you did 5 years ago.

xnervNATx 05-05-2009 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1489119)
Semi-sure that even if these old quests were brought back, less than half of you would still enjoy them like you did 5 years ago.
the pyramid quest was the best of every quest to be ever made , yet its will not be back. sux because its was awesome

ffcmike 05-05-2009 06:26 AM
Some thoughts.

I do not believe that restoring the server to as it was will magically bring back old players,
the chances are that most of the players from 5 years ago have moved on in their life.

If the goal was to restore every level exactly as they were, it could have been done by now regardless of Default/Custom systems, but it's never been the goal,
if I were offered the chance of the servers levels being restored to GTA at the snap of a finger I would take it, there's no doubt it's collectively better than what we have currently, but realistically we're not going to be able to keep a team of organised gs1 + no npcserver > gs2 + serverside/clientside converters together for long enough time to do that.

The old levels weren't all that great,
but then I don't believe too much in keeping to "the latest" tiling and graphical standards, Classic can get away with that, why?
It's Classic.
But then I do believe that if the server is to be a decent and successful Adventure server it is important that time is dedicated so that Quests are plotted and organised first, with the overworld being built strategically around them, rather than the opposite which is currently the case,
this would also give the benefit of being able to maximise player and content density, which is important in an online game.

This doesn't mean that the old levels should be ignored,
they are a valuable resource, in terms of time saving and server identity,
and when a new player logs on they're not going to say "these levels are old, i'm not playing here", or "this server isn't visually appealing", if anything there might be a few who say "ah, this is indeed the Classic server".

The reasons I am proposing that we start work from scratch with default systems is quite simply to give the server a better Development platform,
the opportunity to work without obstacles and focussing entirely ahead,
with systems which both players (new and old) and Developers are used to, the fact that default systems are the original systems is a bonus rather than a reason.

There hasn't been much planning as far as what levels would get used, Graal City would stay the same as the central region absolutely no doubt about that, it would also be important to reuse the aspects which give the current server any competitiveness: GC events, PK/Spar ranks etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xnervNATx (Post 1489143)
the pyramid quest was the best of every quest to be ever made , yet its will not be back. sux because its was awesome
I agree that it was the best (if not the hardest) Quest on GTA,
but there's no reason it cannot come back.

Gotenks_Gore 05-05-2009 06:33 AM
bring it back then...

contego 05-05-2009 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1489175)
Some thoughts.

I do not believe that restoring the server to as it was will magically bring back old players,
the chances are that most of the players from 5 years ago have moved on in their life.

If the goal was to restore every level exactly as they were, it could have been done by now regardless of Default/Custom systems, but it's never been the goal,
if I were offered the chance of the servers levels being restored to GTA at the snap of a finger I would take it, there's no doubt it's collectively better than what we have currently, but realistically we're not going to be able to keep a team of organised gs1 + no npcserver > gs2 + serverside/clientside converters together for long enough time to do that.

The old levels weren't all that great,
but then I don't believe too much in keeping to "the latest" tiling and graphical standards, Classic can get away with that, why?
It's Classic.
But then I do believe that if the server is to be a decent and successful Adventure server it is important that time is dedicated so that Quests are plotted and organised first, with the overworld being built strategically around them, rather than the opposite which is currently the case,
this would also give the benefit of being able to maximise player and content density, which is important in an online game.

This doesn't mean that the old levels should be ignored,
they are a valuable resource, in terms of time saving and server identity,
and when a new player logs on they're not going to say "these levels are old, i'm not playing here", or "this server isn't visually appealing", if anything there might be a few who say "ah, this is indeed the Classic server".

The reasons I am proposing that we start work from scratch with default systems is quite simply to give the server a better Development platform,
the opportunity to work without obstacles and focussing entirely ahead,
with systems which both players (new and old) and Developers are used to, the fact that default systems are the original systems is a bonus rather than a reason.

There hasn't been much planning as far as what levels would get used, Graal City would stay the same as the central region absolutely no doubt about that, it would also be important to reuse the aspects which give the current server any competitiveness: GC events, PK/Spar ranks etc.


I agree that it was the best (if not the hardest) Quest on GTA,
but there's no reason it cannot come back.
-.- The fact of the matter is that any server's success is based on it's customers or players. Please look at the poll results. You're open to your beliefs but you must be open-minded and look at the recommendations of all of those who play or want to play. It's quite clear what we're asking for. The question is now; does and will the current staff want to do the hard work involved?

ffcmike 05-05-2009 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by contego (Post 1489181)
-.- The fact of the matter is that any server's success is based on it's customers or players. Please look at the poll results. You're open to your beliefs but you must be open-minded and look at the recommendations of all of those who play or want to play. It's quite clear what we're asking for. The question is now; does and will the current staff want to do the hard work involved?
The facts are that the server isn't doing well enough currently and players want it to be changed and therefore improved, so ofcourse they're going to vote for that,
the whole Default Systems issue has been argued about for years,
and it's always been known that some say they'd play if they were brought back, your poll has not established anything new whatsoever.

Don't get me wrong,
i'm supporting the idea of using Default Systems and salvaging old levels,
just for reasons based on actual server design.

contego 05-05-2009 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1489189)
The facts are that the server isn't doing well enough currently and players want it to be changed and therefore improved, so ofcourse they're going to vote for that,
the whole Default Systems issue has been argued about for years,
and it's always been known that some say they'd play if they were brought back, your poll has not established anything new whatsoever.

Don't get me wrong,
i'm supporting the idea of using Default Systems and salvaging old levels,
just for reasons based on actual server design.
In responce to both of the things you said:

First of all, if the default setting is old news and people continue to pressure you folks to make a change, why hasn't anything been done? Regardless it's time something is done in my opinion. Stefan and unixmad need to step up. Globals can also get involved. The paying customers have clearly been making this request for sometime.

Finally to respond to you saying you support the idea, then why don't you utilize the Dev Polo server and hire yourself a team to make adjustments there. You're cleary someone who has the ability to make these changes, although I'm not sure your official rank.

ffcmike 05-05-2009 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by contego (Post 1489192)
In responce to both of the things you said:

First of all, if the default setting is old news and people continue to pressure you folks to make a change, why hasn't anything been done? Regardless it's time something is done in my opinion. Stefan and unixmad need to step up. Globals can also get involved. The paying customers have clearly been making this request for sometime.

Finally to respond to you saying you support the idea, then why don't you utlize the Dev Polo server and hire yourself a team to make adjustments there. You're cleary someone who has the ability to make these changes, although I'm not sure your official rank.
That's what i'm trying to do,
but the Dev server is property of Storm, and while he has let me Develop a few things there in order to test it he doesn't support the idea,
from what I can tell the majority of the Development Team support the idea,
but the Development Admin DarkCloud is not fond of it.

Corp1 05-05-2009 07:41 AM
I have no idea why GTA isn't brought back, it's as if some people think the current development on Classic has some sort of light source at the end of the tunnel. Classic in its current state is at the dead end, and is trying to plow through it instead of turning around.

Rufus 05-05-2009 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Ramirez- (Post 1489094)
That's only half true. There was still a very good amount of players remaining who played after you had to pay, considering it was only a one-time payment.
The playercount was declining before the NPC Server was implemented, and this was quite a while after Graal went p2p.

super_matt89 05-05-2009 11:22 AM
Classic Playercount: 300+
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1489119)
Semi-sure that even if these old quests were brought back, less than half of you would still enjoy them like you did 5 years ago.
I agree that almost all the players will enjoy the quests or atleast completing them along with everyone to get the hearts and go PKing.

I voted to bring back the old levels AND the default HD system it's much more smooth and also the old levels were designed well, fun and distinct.

xnervNATx 05-05-2009 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1489175)
Some thoughts.
I agree that it was the best (if not the hardest) Quest on GTA,
but there's no reason it cannot come back.
then i request it to be back!

MysticX2X 05-05-2009 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnervNATx (Post 1489143)
the pyramid quest was the best of every quest to be ever made , yet its will not be back. sux because its was awesome
I thought my gameboy pocket was the best thing ever the first day I got it. That doesn't mean I'll trade my nintendo ds for it. (Theoretically roms don't exist)

xnervNATx 05-05-2009 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1489243)
I thought my gameboy pocket was the best thing ever the first day I got it. That doesn't mean I'll trade my nintendo ds for it. (Theoretically roms don't exist)
were not talking about a game boy pocket wtf are you talking about

BlackSolider 05-05-2009 02:29 PM
Laura...it's an analogy.

The problem with it, however, is that classic doesn't offer any nintendo DS quality anything. If anything (from what I've heard,) classic used to have nintendo DS quality, but currently has gameboy pocket quality. It appears to many that we've gone backwards.

xnervNATx 05-05-2009 02:31 PM
you cant compare that kind of thing

BlackSolider 05-05-2009 02:33 PM
*sigh*

Think of it this way. He's comparing something made a decade ago to something made 2 years ago. The one made 2 years ago is clearly better, but classic instead uses the stuff made a decade ago.

MysticX2X 05-05-2009 02:37 PM
I meant current Classic can just be improved for that DS quality. Im positive bringing back old quests won't bring back the playercount. Positive.

xnervNATx 05-05-2009 02:39 PM
how would you know mystic?
i had many players being dissapointed because there was only 3 huges* quests , newbies come on classic for quest not being pked by *****s(lol) pausing after they kill.

*:i mean castle,sardon and gnome

BlackSolider 05-05-2009 02:39 PM
Old quests might bring back the old, nostalgic players, thereby raising the playercount. At least thats what they are promoting will happen. I don't doubt that some people will return, but I can't imagine Classic having 60+ people online.

xnervNATx 05-05-2009 02:42 PM
no one said that 60 of the players would be back but at least a good 15-20 would be a good start

contego 05-05-2009 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1489258)
I meant current Classic can just be improved for that DS quality. Im positive bringing back old quests won't bring back the playercount. Positive.
I'm quite confident that it will bring back the playercount if the HD, levels, and original quests return. Based on the poll, we're now at 40 people who voted on Classic returning, it should tell you something.

Stefan,
First -Upload old Classic for a week. Post an announcement on the server list letting players know original Classic has returned. I'm not sure when Classic with with the gmap but just upload that version.

Second -Upload a sign on the old level14.graal near the bank with a link to a new poll indicating if players would come back to Classic.

Thrid -And for the wild card, make Era and Zodaic p2p. ahahahah, yay Classic is saved!

Humor of course with the third but anyway if this finally happens I'm sure Classic will increase it's playercount. I do not think this will make Classic into 300+ people but 60+ doesn't seem far fetched by any means. Unless of course Zodiac and Era really do go p2p then it could have 200+ easy. :rolleyes:

In reality, Graal has too many servers for it's community size. I think Graal should try to expand with servers but not as fast as it did. Spreading out the community too thin could work against it. However I take into account that you make money off players creating playerworlds now. But really, how much profit does it bring in? I wish you posted what Graal made as profits (annual reports). The fact of the matter is that the Graal community are the stakeholders, and should be recognized as such.

Let's give the stakeholders what they want. :\

ffcmike 05-05-2009 03:58 PM
If bringing back old Classic in it's entirety was as simple as uploading the old levels,
it would have been done in the first place.

contego 05-05-2009 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1489279)
If bringing back old Classic in it's entirety was as simple as uploading the old levels,
it would have been done in the first place.
I said upload the old server. Completely throw away the last five + years that have clearly done nothing for Classic.

It is VERY easy.

ffcmike 05-05-2009 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by contego (Post 1489280)
I said upload the old server. Completely throw away the last five + years that have clearly done nothing for Classic.

It is VERY easy.
You mean upload the server which scripts functioned without an NPCserver, some of which are now depreciated, and were made for a much older client version?

You're proposing that Stefan put back old Classic for a week,
do you realise that it would actually take a hell of alot longer than a week in order to convert the 5000 + levels to work?

contego 05-05-2009 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1489281)
You mean upload the server which scripts functioned without an NPCserver, some of which are now depreciated, and were made for a much older client version?

You're proposing that Stefan put back old Classic for a week,
do you realise that it would actually take a hell of alot longer than a week in order to convert the 5000 + levels to work?

Actually no it would not at all. Stefan could do it in less than 24 hours, successfully.

ffcmike 05-05-2009 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by contego (Post 1489283)
Actually no it would not at all. Stefan could do it in less than 24 hours, successfully.
If it were that simple,
i'm sure it would have been done in the first place.

contego 05-05-2009 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike (Post 1489284)
If it were that simple,
i'm sure it would have been done in the first place.
This is why I am directing my posts to Stefan. It can be done, no question about it.

ffcmike 05-05-2009 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by contego (Post 1489286)
This is why I am directing my posts to Stefan. It can be done, no question about it.
My understanding was that if Classic wasn't ready for the NPCserver to be put in place Stefan would have eventually had to shut it down.
If there was any way it could remain the same permanently, it would have.


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