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-   -   here's a good proposal (https://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85431)

Frankie 05-05-2009 03:18 AM
everything sounds good, but I just want to comment on:

Quote:
Gang events are fun ocassionally, but they're really just a sad attempt at trying to give current gangs meaning.
it's not a sad attempt. gang events are extremely competitive. competition causes rivalries. rivalries between gangs are a good thing because it's more fun that way! if all gangs were buddy buddy it would be boring :rolleyes:

Nataxo 05-05-2009 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainSkittles (Post 1489107)
The least that could be added back are the phones so people can prank call each other.
please re-add phones :3

salesman 05-05-2009 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie (Post 1489122)
everything sounds good, but I just want to comment on:


it's not a sad attempt. gang events are extremely competitive. competition causes rivalries. rivalries between gangs are a good thing because it's more fun that way! if all gangs were buddy buddy it would be boring :rolleyes:
You know what I meant...it's like taking the lazy way out at giving gangs meaning. Creating competition is great, but hosting KotH over and over again is not a solution to the problem.

Xelnaga 05-05-2009 04:05 AM
I can't imagine why KOTH is so boring? Is it because it's the same map and the prize is a hat? No. impossible.

CaptainSkittles 05-05-2009 04:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnaga (Post 1489131)
I can't imagine why KOTH is so boring? Is it because it's the same map and the prize is a hat? No. impossible.
Or it's the same kind of game-type that's been around since the near dawn of all shooting based games.

Terribly uninventive, boring, over-used, tired.

We could get creative?

Xelnaga 05-05-2009 04:41 AM
There's no reason to be competitive. We're no longer struggling for metal storms and flak cannons. We're fighting over event coins, because you know you had your eyes on those nightvision goggles from the very start.

salesman 05-05-2009 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnaga (Post 1489131)
I can't imagine why KOTH is so boring? Is it because it's the same map and the prize is a hat? No. impossible.
I never said it was boring. I enjoy koth...both playing and hosting. Pretty much everyone enjoys it (until they lose).

My point, as already clearly stated above, is that it is not a solution to the problem. Sure, it raises the playercount and provides a couple of hours of entertainment when it's hosted, but only in small doses.

It cannot provide constant entertainment, and if we tried to host it all the time, that's when it would get boring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnaga (Post 1489135)
There's no reason to be competitive. We're no longer struggling for metal storms and flak cannons. We're fighting over event coins, because you know you had your eyes on those nightvision goggles from the very start.
Giving big prizes for Koth like that is another prime example at why the current gang system fails. It shouldn't require super expensive/overpowered/rare items to make gangs interesting.

Xelnaga 05-05-2009 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman (Post 1489136)
My point, as already clearly stated above, is that it is not a solution to the problem. Sure, it raises the playercount and provides a couple of hours of entertainment when it's hosted, but only in small doses.

It cannot provide constant entertainment, and if we tried to host it all the time, that's when it would get boring.
Variety is the spice of life, swapping the KOTH levels now and then would do us all good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman (Post 1489136)
Giving big prizes for Koth like that is another prime example at why the current gang system fails. It shouldn't require super expensive/overpowered/rare items to make gangs interesting.
That's where you're wrong. I've already stated this tonight, and I'll state it again; the world doesn't run on sunshine and stickers. People want to see their efforts and struggles be rewared, why was KOTH so successful back then?

CaptainSkittles 05-05-2009 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnaga (Post 1489135)
There's no reason to be competitive. We're no longer struggling for metal storms and flak cannons. We're fighting over event coins, because you know you had your eyes on those nightvision goggles from the very start.
Yeah, but if you did host expensive **** like that away, that could only be like a once-every-6-month or so event.

Unless you somehow think a regular event auctioning off Flaks and Metal Storms wouldn't **** up the economy.

salesman 05-05-2009 05:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnaga (Post 1489147)
That's where you're wrong. I've already stated this tonight, and I'll state it again; the world doesn't run on sunshine and stickers. People want to see their efforts and struggles be rewared, why was KOTH so successful back then?
I am not wrong. Sure, it makes things a little more fun, but it's not in the server's best interest to host the events for such big prizes. Not only is it an unfair way to release the items because not everyone can participate, but it throws the economy off-balance. It was usually only the gang leader who got to keep the prize, occassionally the MVP, anyways. Woohoo, fun!

There's better ways to give gangs meaning, and bring back the fun again.

Xelnaga 05-05-2009 05:29 AM
There is no disbalancing the economy. Items don't define the economy, the economy defines items. According to:
1. The ammount of money available in the equilibrium
2. The rarity of the weapon
3. The statistics of the weapon

If more weapons were evented off at the end of the week then there would no longer be a "disbalance of power" because everyone would manage to afford a decent weapon for a low price that they could pick flowers for (similarly to before the reset).

Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman (Post 1489159)
Not only is it an unfair way to release the items because not everyone can participate,
As the original topic of this thread suggests, Era is a pk-based server, the players are more likely to wrap their heads around that concept here than on UN. This means if you get your sh*t together and play the server often enough you'll be sure to earn your position in a gang and participate in a KOTH, And whoever said that prizes were distributed to the gangleader alone? Rams maybe, but Nuada distributed the 3 MSs that were won in KOTH back during the days of the Mongrel Mob, this can be administered somehow to benefit everyone if it's really that big a concern.

Frankie 05-05-2009 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman
You know what I meant...it's like taking the lazy way out at giving gangs meaning. Creating competition is great, but hosting KotH over and over again is not a solution to the problem.
right now it's a lazy way because gangs don't really have much of a purpose at the moment. when a better gang system is implemented, gang events will just be an additional fun thing to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainSkittles
Or it's the same kind of game-type that's been around since the near dawn of all shooting based games.

Terribly uninventive, boring, over-used, tired.

We could get creative?
last saturday's koth was the first koth I've played in I don't know how long. I had a lot of fun. back when ocelot hosted it every sunday, it started to get extremely boring and over played. if they space out gang events like I suggested, koth won't get as boring. it'll be hosted once every few weeks instead of every week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman
My point, as already clearly stated above, is that it is not a solution to the problem. Sure, it raises the playercount and provides a couple of hours of entertainment when it's hosted, but only in small doses.
I never said it was the solution. it's just something for gangs to do once a week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman
Giving big prizes for Koth like that is another prime example at why the current gang system fails. It shouldn't require super expensive/overpowered/rare items to make gangs interesting.
gang events don't need to reward big prizes. just something useful to the gang that wins. 10 ec and a hat that says mvp isn't really useful. sure, a flak cannon or some insanely powerful weapon would be useful, but it doesn't have to be that big.

maybe just award points to the gangs, and they can spend those points for base upgrades. it's a re-used idea, but it's good. a lot more can be built upon this too.

Xelnaga 05-05-2009 05:36 AM
Auto-stocking gang shop
Base door health
Swift Elevator Access
Medkits spawn faster/ provide more health...
Possibilities are endless

salesman 05-05-2009 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnaga (Post 1489161)
If more weapons were evented off at the end of the week then there would no longer be a "disbalance of power" because everyone would manage to afford a decent weapon for a low price that they could pick flowers for (similarly to before the reset).
And then we'd be back where we started except this time you'd be complaining that a Flak Cannon isn't a good enough prize.

Player A works his ass off for months to earn 500k. Player B gets 50 kills in one event. Both recieve the same weapon. I call that unbalanced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnaga (Post 1489161)
As the original topic of this thread suggests, Era is a pk-based server, the players are more likely to wrap their heads around that concept here than on UN. This means if you get your sh*t together and play the server often enough you'll be sure to earn your position in a gang and participate in a KOTH, And whoever said that prizes were distributed to the gangleader alone? Rams maybe, but Nuada distributed the 3 MSs that were won in KOTH back during the days of the Mongrel Mob, this can be administered somehow to benefit everyone if it's really that big a concern.
I'm referring more to the fact that not even everyone in a gang can participate anymore. What about pkers who choose to be gangless? They shouldn't be excluded from prizes that affect EVERYONE, not just gangs. If you want to give prizes for gang events, the prizes should be gang-related. Like Frankie said...points would be good (if only they were more than just a number)

EDIT: We're starting to go off in the wrong direction...most of this will be irrelevant with the new gang system, anyways.

CaptainSkittles 05-05-2009 05:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnaga (Post 1489161)
There is no disbalancing the economy. Items don't define the economy, the economy defines items. According to:
1. The ammount of money available in the equilibrium
2. The rarity of the weapon
3. The statistics of the weapon

If more weapons were evented off at the end of the week then there would no longer be a "disbalance of power" because everyone would manage to afford a decent weapon for a low price that they could pick flowers for (similarly to before the reset).



As the original topic of this thread suggests, Era is a pk-based server, the players are more likely to wrap their heads around that concept here than on UN. This means if you get your sh*t together and play the server often enough you'll be sure to earn your position in a gang and participate in a KOTH, And whoever said that prizes were distributed to the gangleader alone? Rams maybe, but Nuada distributed the 3 MSs that were won in KOTH back during the days of the Mongrel Mob, this can be administered somehow to benefit everyone if it's really that big a concern.

I was gonna trim this beast down before fully quoting it, but **** it. I'm lazy.

Let's say they use your theory. Now everyone in a gang is floating around with Metal Storms/Flaks (or whatever gun you want). Good call. Gang guns are now useless, and if you're not in a gang you're going to get ****ing rolled.

The "disbalance of power" comes from guns like the Metal Storm being ridiculously ****ing over-powered. Yeah, handing them out to a ton of people evens the playing field a bit, but why not just balance the game? If guns just were suited to different play-styles instead of a hierarchy of bad to good, then you wouldn't be forced to pick flowers for 2 months to get the funds to get a good weapon and have fun. It shouldn't be a gear based game where you're not a contender unless you have a good gun, it should be based on skill.


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