Mike, that post was great, and not selfish at all; I think everyone who represents a playerworld or even those who simply enjoy one should try to make sure that they are represented and their needs heard.

Valikorlia is heavily impacted by the current subscription model and observer mode restrictions. Playercount is, of course, essential to keeping any game alive. We can make content until the cows come home, but if there's not enough community to actually experience it together people will lose interest and fall away.

Of course, Valikorlia is a role-playing server, which means our needs are sometimes different. Our playercount is naturally going to be lower than an action-oriented server, and that's fine, but the issue we have now is that it is nearly impossible to get new players. We have frequently gotten in contact with roleplayers all around the internet and even in our real lives, and seeing our graphics and story quality people get super excited...

...And then we have to mention that, at the minimum, they have to fork over $30 for an 8 month Graal subscription. That is a complete dealbreaker, and we have had so many people who even tried the server and liked it not play because they did not feel that the price was fair for what they were getting, and we can't really argue with them. The truth is $30 is a lot of money to throw to a 2D action game, regardless of which server you want to play.

Where things get confusing for the PC crowd is how the Facebook and iPhone models are more affordable and many times more populated than the original version, and yet we're still using this archaic pricing model that is heavily restricting the amount of new players that will come to the game. I understand that when you're running a business, you go where the money is, so it is not unthinkable that you would focus more on the platforms from which the most profit is coming, but an F2P model with a cash shop would work just as well on PC.

I have been playing Graal since 1999, and I have no regrets about the time I've spent and the fun I've had, but in the current online games market Graal only has one really major advantage over others; the ability for players to really impact their world. I cannot speak for other playerworlds, but Valikorlia encourages players to create new areas, new storylines and new events to advance the world and create new gameplay. Every playerworld is made by players, though, and all our volunteer staff members work hard to create something that is community-built. It’s our most unique trait, but it’s being buried under a payment system that clearly is not working to our benefit.

All you have to do is look to Maple Story to see a 2-D MMO that has frequent updates, a cash shop and an absolutely massive, dedicated playerbase. I don’t think we need to be Maple Story (they have 70 million registered accounts - 70 MILLION accounts for a 2D side-scroller that came out in 2005!), but we can take lessons from their model. Right now, PC Graal players feel unloved and uncared for, and there is a HUGE market we could be tapping into but are choosing not to, in favor of sticking to an antiquated system that is inefficient at best and draconic at worst.

There is a trend where P2P games are moving to F2P models, and that’s because people want to buy things they feel are actually useful. Someone will spend $20 a month on items, stat boosts, mounts and other in-game items and not bat an eye, but that same player will not pay $10 monthly for the same game, because that money doesn’t feel like it’s actually getting them anything. We have to be careful how we monetize things, but even a roleplaying server can be profitable if you actually give it a chance.

The best example for this: Gaia Online. Gaia is a forum community of RPers, in which everyone gets a cute lil’ avatar that they can customize. What’s amazing is that Gaia turns a massive profit selling hair, clothing and emotes for these forum avatars. They have no purpose! People will pay for cosmetics, especially RPers because those things are directly relevant to their characters. Such a system could be easily leveraged onto Valikorlia. We could very easily sell outfits, heads, and weapons as cosmetic upgrades to characters. In fact, talented artists on Valikorlia have actually made player graphics for money in the past, so this is proven to be something that our players desire and will engage in.

The key here is that our playercount, under an F2P model, would easily double or triple, based purely on the various other roleplaying groups our players belong to. There are many online forums and RPing games out there, but few if any as graphically customizable as the one on Graal’s platform. Players would flock to our server, and I’m sure they would hang out on the action servers too, if they did not have a $30 wall blocking them from playing.

Of course, we have the observer/trial system, but as has been pointed out a couple of times so far, the system is so restrictive that it leaves a terrible taste in a prospective player’s mouth that they are very unlikely to subscribe. Valikorlia’s gameplay is almost entirely community-based, and although it may come in a slightly different form every other server hinges on player interaction to be fun. Taking someone out of the community and not allowing them to experience it as a real member doesn’t encourage them to pay more money; it encourages them to go and look for any of hundreds of F2P MMOs that offer more reasonable ways of actually getting into the game.

As I said earlier, I know that Facebook and iPhone are where the money is, but I have to think that if Facebook Graal can be that popular then PC Graal can, once again, be a thriving, bustling game full of active communities. There is most definitely an audience for this kind of game, whether you want sparring and quests or roleplaying, but we’re blocking them out by ignoring what dang near every other online game in the market is doing right now. There is a massive potential revenue that PC Graal could get, but it needs support, and it needs care.

An example: about a month ago we paid for a Dev server so we could develop some major new systems without compromising our server while we tweak things. Unfortunately Classic accounts cannot log onto our Dev server, which is kind of an issue because damn near our entire dev team has such accounts. We were told weeks ago that this would be fixed, and we have not heard one word back. We are very aware and understanding that the globals are incredibly busy people and that these things take time, but we’re making a real effort to develop things to attract new players and we feel like we’re being told we’re not a priority, which when our players fork over $100 of their own money is kind of disappointing.

Right now we’re working on a lot of things like housing, combat, questing and economy, and I know a lot of the other established and developing playerworlds are putting in a great deal of work to new features to attract players, but if we cannot get new players we’re really squandering the potential of these developers and these games. Right now PC Graal is not in a position to accrue significant amounts of new players or revenue, and it’s only as frustrating as it is because there are an incredible number of games that are showing massive success with a much more player-friendly model, including this same game on another dang platform!

I love Graal, I have since I was in middle school, but I feel like where I have kept growing it stopped several years ago, not in content but in infrastructure. I do not wish to minimize anyone’s work or presume that these things are necessarily easy, but I think it’s plain to see that there’s a lot of frustration and wasted potential here, and that if a viable F2P model was implemented we could see Graal explode in popularity, and more players means more graphical and developmental staff that will be able to churn out content and make some truly incredible servers.

Indeed, this is ultimately what Graal boils down to, and the great thing about PC Graal is that a strong prosperous community in turn contributes to the games development pool, which would benefit every platform.

It's similar with Classic, in the time since we wiped 6500 unique accounts have logged on. Many of these have been trials who were complimentary of the quests and subsequently supportive of the server, but then turned out to be even more bothered with the price of the game than the fact the server happens to still be UC and not maintaining a playercount.

Something I would add to this is that the PC platform offers a lot of extra capabilities, as such it could be marketed either as a 'plus' version of the game, or with greater emphasis on being a development platform.

It's not just failing to work to the developers benefit, it is counter-productive. It has contributed to the number of talented developers being drastically reduced, which in turn has contributed to both the quantity and quality of updates across Graal being reduced. Any consequential lack of trust towards developers on Graal that Stefan and Unixmad may have, is largely by result of their own doing.

It's incredible how 2 people can get something so astonishingly right in one instance, while at the same time leaving something similar in such an utterly wrong predicament.

It would of course be a massive jump to be going from primarily subscription based to primarily micro-transaction based, and perhaps this is something us developers aren't ready for either. For this reason I expect it would have to be a transition where subscriptions are gradually eased down while micro-transactions are gradually eased up. At least giving this a try wouldn't have any radically negative effects compared to what PC Graal is already experiencing.

That said, my initial post isn't even demanding immediate change, it is demanding an explanation. It is not right that people are putting hard work into a game where the owners will not even provide an explanation as to what their plans for it are, or why your plans for the server you represent aren't agreeable.

Also it's incredible how our 2 servers ended up with the highest playercounts on PC Graal momentarily:

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2692/players3lol.png

I think it's poor that we need to pay to be able to develop content for someone else to profit off, renting servers out is fair enough since the reason is obvious... but making people pay to develop isn't! It's for these reasons and those stated above that it's crazy to not be moving towards a free to play model similar to what iGraal has, it's madness not to o_0

If it wasn't for the fact Val bought a dev server instead of making itself UC and staff only to rework the systems, and the fact we've spent 3 years redeveloping Classic, all those players with Classic subscription could well have had nowhere else to go.

Thats true, we won few people getting into RPing due of the Server Crashs, most of the people on Graal doesnt even know what Val is about.
And yeah we are still waiting for enabling our Dev Server for Classic Accounts. Would help us alot working on huge things without messing up stuff on the main Server.

And to think this could be repeated on a daily albeit smaller basis if only there wasn't a built-in trial restriction that makes it very difficult to try all of the servers.

I agree with this totally.
It would be rational to let others develop, get better and eventually work on a server that is owned by said creators. Therefore better developers would want to stay, and those who aren't better get better and help make the community larger.

I don't feel that Graal has earned my respect enough for me to actually advertise it, and when and if Shaded Legends goes classic, I will advertise it... at a minimum. I feel no reason to advertise for someone who:
1. Is not willing to do it themselves.
2. Does not care about their customers.
3. Does not care about their 'employees' if you will.
Because as you know, time is money, are graphics could be sold, our programming knowledge could be be used and payed for elsewhere, and our small contributes of advertising via youtube, facebook, and small time websites could be paid for by others. We do this for them for free, and in return... we have to pay to have an account to develop. Logical?
Not really.

We stay because we like Graal.. Eventually that will change if the creators don't do something about it.





In 7 Billing Days I will no longer have a gold account... I may have received it via super rewards... but even going through that process was complete BS, and I probably will not be going to do it again.

Before the 7 days are up, I will have a video of my accomplishments, because I highly doubt the other staff will step up after I'm gone as I've heard them say they would do. I REALLY feel that Shaded Legends has a chance... and this may sound egotistical, but with me gone I think that chance will be as well. I've been pushing as much as I can out.
Mining is fixed, lumber is fixed, shovel is improved, the staff that I've hired actually do things and know what they are doing. I had to also fix many events that I was told worked. Staff members knew for the most part what they were doing.

The intro is completed but needs better pictures eventually, quests, events, and currency systems need to be fixed. Problem is, I don't want to release it until classic status.

Due to Graal not being free.. All this work will go to waste..
Now, I can probably use some of it on my portfolio, and I will, however others may not. It will be a waste of time for them. :noob:



I actually went on yesterday since it was Klariah... I may not have known what I was doing and was overall in confusion, but at least exploring went well. The graphics were superb...

I bet they could have been even better if Graal were free to allow more players to help the server. But seriously, wonderful graphics, and I wish we had some like it. Trees at least. However I was also told we were trying to stay our former classic graphic style as well.. And I'm not sure how long the context of that statement entails.





Like I said, in 7 days, my gold is gone, my lifetime classic account isn't worth crap.. just like before iPod Graal came out, I will probably disappear from the Graal community for a good while, maybe come back once my Art portfolio is completed... maybe not. Depends on how Shaded Legends is doing.

I was offered by someone to pay for a gold account for me.. but that was 1-2 months ago and that offer is probably gone. I will try to bring Shaded Legends to an easy point to finish off, but without motivation by a manager who keeps in touch with their team.. Forgive my lack in enthusiasm.. I don't think it will happen. But that is okay, I'm sure Graal being P2P has brought many wonderful 'in the works' projects to a conclusion.


-EDIT-
Don't get me wrong, I can still work from testbed, but why would I want to do that? I want to work on Shaded Legends, not testbed. Regardless, portfolio comes first after gold is gone.

i don't care how stupid i sound why does stefan take the old classic heads from players in my opinion only wearing other peoples personals should count for gold i enjoy switching looks when i play graal that's the part that makes me really mad.

I just got the following comment for one of my youtube videos:

I couldn't say yes or no, only that trials are unable to play events not because we choose for them to be, but because of the fact the terrible built-in restriction observer mode causes too many problems and disruption to events, and that this can be attributed to the fact PC Graal is being neglected by its owners.

It's best you don't let them suffer as we are now.

Is this F2P offer still availible and could we get some more details about the requirements of a Playerworld/classic Server to go F2P? Valikorlia is really interested in this offer.

Please get in contact with me or Cort (darkshaed) our Manager.
Thanks.

Even if this were not available, or they are out-right refusing to remove observer mode for additional servers regardless of how much work and planning put towards it, it would be good to have an honest answer confirming it one way or the other, or some clarity as to whether they even want to move PC Graal forward.

When I was told currencies and systems needed to be secure among other issues of trust, I had fully anticipated it, and wasted no time in presenting scripted systems which should be convincing. Having then received no responses for a large period of time suggests to me these were nothing but lame excuses for the sake of blowing off responsibility.

Burying heads in the sand is not making the problem go away, if anything it is making it even harder. Server developers such as myself do not know for sure how much effort should be designated towards planning and preparing micro-transactions, and how much effort should be towards normal updates.
If Stefan can categorically state observer mode cannot be removed, we can move on and try our best, if he can give reasons for a plan being unsatisfactory we can put in extra work to make it satisfactory.

Could not agree more with this.

In the case of Stefan simply being swamped with too much work, and therefore not having enough time to fit something like this in between existing projects, there is no shame in admitting it, it is quite clear to see and easy to understand.

I am not asking for immediate action, only assurance that it is worthwhile to continue work in the hope of greater accomplishment, for the server I have lead the redevelopment from scratch for nearly 3 years, which is also the server that has arguably contributed the most to Graal. It's difficult to plan ahead when the last clarification of plans for PC Graal occurred within this very thread over an entire year ago.

From their perspective it has evolved and moved on where it is being enjoyed by thousands. It would be nice to see some love for the PC servers though.

I agree with that and I think that observer mode should be removed, it disrupts gameplay making it less enjoyable.

On the 19th July last year I received the following forum PM:

This was in response to the following post:


I'm curious, but does anyone know which part it might have been that I was thanked for saying?

I assume the first sentence.

Complimenting the work as some form of accomplishment.

The first line was more of a criticism though.

who cares

lol

Sorry, my internet cable and dish network cables were accidentally cut in the last day. Someone had to fix it... Metaphorically speaking I was on a temporary observermode I guess. Did I miss anything, did Stefan do the fair thing and improve anything worthwhile?

I wish I kept those 100 iClassic tile error pictures.
Might have them on a hard drive... They could come in handy to see the amazing content iClassic users are given, that we might not have.

Seems more like you were flat out saying that something was capable of working. Which can be construed as a positive thing to say. I was confused too trying to look and that's the best I could see.

I wanted to know if it was a possibility, since Shaded Legends is not classic, that we could possibly sell bodies, heads, emoticons, weapons, shields (when they have a use) and other supplies for Gralats, assuming they want them faster, which still having the option to gain them via in Shaded Legends currency coins..

The currency would be more realistic than most servers though.. bronze and iron possibly 2 gralats, silver 20, gold 50, diamonds 75 or whatever, pickaxe 35 per buy, 25 per repair.. certain percent to get the higher ones, probably certain areas too... (I'd have to look more into pricing)

It would be like iPod Graal, and could be free and I'd advertise to iPod Graal as well as other places.

Cujo and I have to work on the pricing still though.. And add in more currency systems. Trash for a gralat.. fishing needs to be brought down a bunch.. questing gives you small amounts of change.. So on..

Could this be a possibility for all servers, or even us since we have no static standards due to us not being classic yet?

The main server machine went down again but that's ok, because of the hard work that's been put into Classic for all this time, the server was there to pick up the tab and maintain a decent level of gameplay to the refugees.
I know you like to take your time with writing email responses Stefan, but please don't make it too long, we're very busy with development work.

While nobody really knows what the intention behind the whole "free to play" is, I'd imagine you'd have to seek an agreement in principle and then ensure everything agreed is in place beforehand. A flexible setup which sells the currency in the global shop, leaving the rest of the sales process in game would require a high level of scripted security to prevent hacking or staff abuse.

That was deep.

Am I on your buddy list Thor?

I can confirm maximus_asinus is not on my buddy list at this moment in time.

See I tend to try and give proper responses to legitimate questions or concerns even if I perceive them to be of scarce relevance.

Although I am disappointed I am glad you have replied in a timely manner.

P.S. can I be admin?

Any update on this? I'd like to see where it's going.

Let me know if there is anything I can do.

Bump the continued lack of response on this issue is appalling.

I also emailed a copy of plans translated to both French and German (thanks again you two), so that's one more possible excuse that can be scrubbed off.

i just **** my pants from laughter :cry:

It wasn't intended to make anyone laugh, but on the subject of it, here is the last response I received on May 7th:

The last -meaningful- response was April 2nd, the first response in February also occurred after over 4 months of attempted contact. So you could say there have been 7 months of potential lost progress on the matter, and after nearly 9 months I have not received anything that comes close to a definitive answer one way or the other.

ffcmike you understand that your weird behaviour is not really motivating us to speed up those things? This is a forum where you can speak about the game or development, this thread is about the Graal version(s) on Facebook.

Wait, you can speed those things up and haven't been meeting the deadlines that you said?

Then what is going to motivate you to speed things up exactly?
Or if you're simply too busy and are therefore unable to speed things up, which is perfectly understandable, why don't you just say so instead of continuing to ignore the issue?

If you were to familiarise yourself with the work that's been put into Classic for the past 3 years you'd find I'm not a stupid or unreasonable person, and although you may not like my behaviour, you cannot say I haven't been patient enough beforehand.
There are a lot of developers on PC Graal who are incredibly frustrated with the lack of support towards this version of the game. Sure there is the option to just give up and leave, but that's not a good thing, especially given that many feel PC Graal has its advantages and the potential for higher quality gameplay, compared to what exists on iPhone/Facebook Graal.

I'm not really asking for things to be sped up though, I'm just asking for clarification so I know what level of possibility exists for it. Ultimately I feel there is a responsibility to get something done rather than just assume there is an answer of "no".

Really?

I must have misunderstood this part then.

Same....

Do we get this list of requirements now or what? Why is it that complicated? If you can't do everything on your own I would suggest hiring more Developers to help you Stefan/unixmad.

You should be gratefull that so many Developers working for free, atleast give us (the Community) something back... I don't appreciate this arrogance.