holy goddamn exaggerations, batman

I still say 'Bring Back PK Tags' should be an option on that list.

The AP system is something that people have abused at times, no doubt about that, but i think removing it completely would only encourage people to run off and heal, would you rather have lamers sit around for half an hour before attempting to lame you, or have them constantly trying to lame you?

But then again, laming wasn't the main reason the AP system was introduced,
the important thing was for it to shorten the advantage PKers with level 3 sword + shield & 10 or more hearts had on new players with level 1 sword & shield and 3 heart.
This was ofcourse a long time ago and doesn't apply to the same extent at the time being, but the level 2 sword and shield aswell as more obtainable hearts are planned releases which will see starting levels and heart amount decrease.

The deal with Saint Mode is quite simply that if you avoid fighting with other players then other players should not be able to fight with you, this can also be helpful to new players, Newbie Saint is perhaps something that should be brought back for those who choose to go through the tutorial rather than skip it.

However i do think it might be a good idea to increase the time inwhich AP rises, i have the feeling that it rises alot quicker now than before the npcserver and as a result going from 0 - 20 and then 20 - 40 occurs too quickly.

A few points.

I remember on one server that when you logged on as a noob (trial), you had a 30 minute "no pk rule" where people couldn't hit you and you couldn't hit them. Of course you could voluntarily get rid of your power, but then obviously you were fair game. I'm not sure if/how something like this would work on classic, but it was just a thought.

I've never really understood why the hps change. Sitting around on 3 hp is just asking for trouble. Not that deaths matter, but being assaulted by every noob and/or s-key happy person who walks by you is not very fun, at least imo. I've been saint for a long time now because I got tired of people walking into lvl 14 and slashing me when I was talking. The pause image takes up a good amount of space, and it really gets in the way of talking. So I can either be paused and not able to read what people are saying, or I can sit unpaused and fear assault at any moment. Neither option was that good. So I went to saint to avoid both of these problems.

Someone early on in the thread suggested removing AP below the saint level, which seems like a very good suggestion. Forget this 3 hp vs 5 or 8 hp stuff. Everyone has 8 hp and they fight to see who's better. If they still want to run and heal (tbh healing shouldn't be allowed, imo) then they're pathetic. "Omg I can't win a fair fight and god forbid I get a graal death!"

So, either get rid of AP altogether (which is what I voted for), or change it to were only saints have any differences.

I 100% agree with Gladius, his post is spot on.

There should be some safe zones on the overworld where you cant get hit by bombs/arrows/swords regardless of ap.

Also Gladius, I think that was Era you are referring to. I remember a long long time ago they had a newbie protection which you could activate for 20 or so minutes if you were like really new.

You keep saying it's a loophole as if there's zero penalty to the person who is doing it. They have to stop PKing for a few hours to regain saint so obviously there is a penalty, even if you choose to not view it as one.

I get the feeling a lot of you don't remember or weren't around for PK tags. Here's a quick run down of what they were.

Regardless of your AP once you killed somebody you instantly hit zero AP, got a nice little (Player Killer) tag, couldn't heal. The tag lasted about 30 minutes, but this timer could be adjusted. Once your timer was up your AP went back to what it was before the tag(Prevents killing somebody and running to regain AP).

You can adjust the timer on it, cap hearts at 5 while tagged, make people PKable in non-PK zones with the tag, whatever. Not sure it'll be entirely doable since I'm not sure you can make two people with the same tag be able to hit each other though if it's doable in another way I'd love it. PK tags were fun.

Best part is when people see others with PK tags they of course go after them, getting a tag themselves, then others go for them getting tags, usually a chain reaction.

Nice idea, but what if people want to go on their own guild tags?

I'm sure there are other ways to do it than a tag. Could just have zero AP be the mark of a PK tag(black name).

I mean I remember back in the day you weren't a PKer unless you had zero AP. Now we can bring the black names to the PKers and knock out the laming.

I also realized what I described would end up with everyone either being Saint or PK since your AP would go back to what it was before the tag. Could make it go back to your AP minus like 30, or even 50. Saint as it is now is too easy to get and maintain, but I think removing AP or slowing down AP gain isn't very creative.

Perhaps the yellow (gold) graalat could grant 100 ap and that person would be the only saint?

Just a thought.

When we first launched the NPC Server I removed the whole AP system, including sainthood and health restrictions. Instead I put in a sort of PK 'rating' which was a score between 0 and 100 based on how good you were at PKing. Players who killed a lot without dying would have scores closer to 0 (realistically anything below about 30 meant a strong attacker). PK 'rating' was mapped against the AP colours, so that PKers had black nicks, players who died a lot had gold nicks, and players who avoided fighting had white nicks (Like 0AP, 100AP and 50AP respectively), with the whole scaling from 0 to 100 used in between. The idea of the system was simply to just let people fight without restrictions, with the rating used as an indictor to show what a players preference was.

I've always felt that the only reason people like being restricted to 3 or 5 hearts is because it allows them to get kills (and/or deaths) more quickly, ultimately inflating their stats. The fact that you die more often took away some of the enjoyment from PKing for me. I can see the arguement for not leting people who want to PK heal, but restricting their health just didn't work for me.

Eventually it was the players who voted to bring back the AP system, and that is why we have it. I personally wanted to do something similar to the 'Player Killer' tags mentioned by Stryker. I always thought these worked better than AP. From what I remember there was no sliding scale; either you were a Player Killer or not, and after 10 minutes without killing anyone the tag would get removed. There was no such thing as sainthood either, so people who did not want to fight were forced to run away. I've checked and it is possible for us to display '(Player Killer)' without interfering with any of the guild stuff.

I guess changing how the who PK/sainthood system works is something we can look at. ^^

The players have voted.

I approve of bringing back Player Killer tags instead of this AP System. Having said that, I also think there should be 100AP along with PK tags because some people just don't want to PK -- they shouldn't have to.

The players have voted to leave it untouched. But will storm go and do what he always does and NOT listen to the players? ...probably.

Actually it's an 8-8 tie. If you count the people who want something done about the system and combine it together, that's an 8 vote margin.

Yea too bad that isn't the way a poll works. Top number wins buddy.

But there are 8 players who feel something should be done about the AP system, buddy. When making a decision, you take into consideration the opinions of each and every player. Not just a number.

Mystic is right, the poll hasn't closed. It's only the 2nd day and you're already jumping to conclusions and claiming everyone voted to keep it untouched even though it's 8-8?

The last option was a bit stupid I admit, but if you think about it -- it does tie into PK tags replacing the AP System.

ill say like tatsumi , the way a poll work is top number win it, i never saw a poll counting 2 answer just to counter the top one

This isn't even an official poll nor does the management/dev team have a consensus about this.

storm will just act like there was no poll

Well considering Kill voted twice :rolleyes:

10-8 NOW!!!!

Well technically, 9-8...

mystic only has 3 accounts to , so this poll is useless u know

I changed my vote to 'make some changes' because obviously the 3rd option was a stupidly radical one. I couldn't change it on my account however, so I had no option but to use my other.

If only there was a way to change the options in the poll - I'd do it but I can't now; the 3rd option should be changed to 'Change it to PK tags instead'.

It'd be nice if every single person who voted actually stated why they voted which way. The only people I can recall posting (without looking) are kill, styker, laura, tats, and mystic. Thats 5 votes. Where's the other dozen who voted without posting?

If people vote for keeping it untouched, I personally would like to know why. No, perhaps we shouldn't get rid of it altogether. But surely it could stand a tweak or two. At least explain the logic and/or reasoning behind your vote, otherwise it seems that people are just reading the options and picking one without thinking.

I did not vote.

I brought up an old, more creative solution, but never voted. I'm staff on the server and I don't really PK anymore, so for me to vote would be silly.

Though I would say if PK tags were brought back I might PK again. :cool:

What was the point of making players with gold names completely immune to NPCs?

Also, I recommend the removal of the low-ap restrictions, if they still exist.

For those that have missed the updates thread Saints can now recoil when hit, but are not able to receive damage.

Why not?

Because that would bypass the point of Saint Mode.

But what is the point of saint mode?

What a rebel.

Point of saint mode, for me at least, is to avoid being assaulted by every s-key happy noob and/or person that happens to wander into lvl 14 while im talking.

Being paused while talking is very inconvenient, as the pause gui/message thing blocks a good portion of text. Thus if you're saint, you don't have to be paused and thus can talk freely without the fear of a horrible graal death.

Original saint system was cool