everything is because no one remade baddies

Wait. Aren't you Muddy?

Why is this link relevant?

Stev is staff, and he is taking swings at the players in a graal setting.

It's not like any global staff back up Classic, or the people paid to work on stuff- everyones busy, so nothing is expected to get done 'cept the 30 or so players who are on Classic 24/7.

If I'm such a bad guy, then why ask me to work on your new version of Classic?

Because you have talents, and that's the number 1 priority at the moment

You should reconsider your priorities.

Do you even know what server I am talking about?
Log onto Kalypso and you'll realize that we need lots of levels done quick.

What grudge do you have against me, Minoc? ;[

I just took a look around those catacombs and the newer levels associated with them.

I'm surprised any server on the classic tab allowed those levels to be uploaded. I came across NPC's that didn't work properly (there were a few state.png's that were lying around) and there were the worst levels I have ever seen on that server.

Whoever uploaded those levels is either incompetent or bias with his/her job. I know nothing of who uploaded it, but there is no reason, except those mentioned in the previous sentence, for why those levels are online.

Most NPCs don't work because we're using GScript2, and not many of us know how to use it. Looking at the levels from the other end of the stick, we've done rather well compared to what most people have to offer.

As for the levels being the worst you've ever seen; which levels are you talking about?

state.pngs? What version are you using? Linux? rofl

Uploading **** playerhouses on Classic has always occured, so don't even start with this, "Worst levels I have ever seen on that server" crap. You thought perhaps noob Saibot's house was decent? Or maybe hons' house? :/ Your house alone screamed "Pre-defined objects," so don't start.

Thanks for your opinion Shaun, however it is most invalid.

Ok well,woopty doo woopty daa,I luda king of cool am here

I AM GOING TO MAKE SOME POINTS HERE U BLOODY GRAALIANS
1:CLASSIC'S MANAGEMENT SUCKS,and I AGREE WITH MAXIMUS
2:I FIND IT RETARDED HOW VENTRUE HAS A GUILDHOUSE BIGGER THAN CLASSIC'S OVERWORLD (THEY BRAG ABOUT IT 2),NO HATES ON MY BROTHER STEV THO ^^
3:I FIND THIS ONE POST EVERY 24 HOURS THING BS,VIP'S SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO POST MORE OFTEN 2,SCREW GOLD ITS ANOTHER WAY FOR U FOOLS TO GET MORE MONEY YOU GREEDY ITALIANS
4:I AM KING OF COOL.

:rolleyes:

or because they were made wrong to begin with and no one has bothered to fix them.

NPC Code:

---

NPC state.png 64 8

if (created) {

  dontblock;

  drawoverplayer;

  x = 576;

  y = 8;

  setgifpart 84,81,14,16;}

NPCEND

---

this isn't a great example but there are many more like this, and I highly doubt someone fixed them all

way to be rude and try to sound smart

Yeah, it was rude. Sadly though, it's all very true, and very smart. No "trying" to be smart around here.

<3

wtf mate. Remember that it was designed for the old Classic, like, when Classic was massive. In comparison, US island was much larger and would be if it was uploaded now! That won't happen though, because people like Maximus are too busy complaining about Ventrue's guildhouse instead of fixing their own monstrosity.

r0lf italians

Yea, **** off. I know how you guys treasure your post counts, personal titles and all that other **** that's post related, but leave your spam out of the only decent thread on this entire board. Thank you kindly.

Lets try to get this back on topic. Classic is going to hell because of the Manager, he needs to step down. I contacted Tyhm, and sadly, he said he wouldn't come back. He does agree on how poorly Storm manages, and how Ventrue has there hand in its downfall.

Thanks for getting this thread back on topic, but since when has Tyhm logged onto Classic? How exactly has Ventrue had a hand in Classic's downfall?

Without justification of your statement, we can safely say that you're just out to bash us. Our guild house has not aided the downfall of Classic. Master Storm isn't Ventrue, so you can't blame us for that, so what's the reasoning?

Despite my post asking for this to end, it has not. Surprise Surprise.
Whatever. :whatever:

Like every one of these posts, it curved off topic...way off topic might I add, and had to be brought back on topic. Shows you how much people really care on this matter, doesn't it? :cool:

If a guild and its guild house is the downfall of Classic, then you really need a reality check on what caused the downfall of Classic. The playercount has dwindled ever since the time of p2p. It came back for a bit, but then fell again after the lack of updates. Now instead of embracing the updates Storm has planned, you want them done faster, and on your schedule. That's just being greedy.

I won't stop until I've seen results.

I don't blame everything on Ventrue. They are apart of the problem, (actually just the few corrupted staff members who're around it), but most of the problem is Storm.

P2P effected Classic, as every server, but everyone else managed to turn around and recuperate. Classic hasn't. All the Managers are at fault for this one. Tyhm for going inactive, Com013 for leaving, the others who were there. Then we come to Storm, he took over, tried to get some levels up, couldn't (because of some bogus reason, he could have rescripted a bow and bomb), then decides to delete all the work on dev, start over, make a poor hit detection system, then when its put up, he forces this down the throuts of us Classic members, even though we complained. He ignores the player's opinion, thoughts, etc. We continue on, several months after the initial release. Nothing is added. Continue some more, we're promised some quests, but nothing is released. What is it, six months now? No quests, no updates. He blames in on various things (not everyone has V3,V4 or some bug in some systems), these are very poor reasons, he could have developed and worked out bugs as he went. Hit detection system. I don't know where to begin. It doesn't work. Various bugs, that I've reported to him, haven't been fixed (killing people who are paused, killing people who 'lag out', laming rating from other accounts, etc).


The problem is, Storm doesn't have a schedule. He doesn't believe in deadlines, he told me that himself. He has no plans for the future, well not until V4 is released to the public (and they haven't set a release date for this either). Storm is going to leave Classic, it'll stuggle, and die out. When it hits bottom, it'll be impossible to restore. It'll be tainted. Just look at Graal2001. The Management there destroyed the server, and because of their stubbornness, it'll never go anywhere.

I think the best thing that can be done besides removing Storm, is releasing the Levels set to certain people, who would try and build a real version of Classic. Whoever did the best job would get the Classic tab, the other server gets the boot.

Not really:

That's no reason for broken NPCs.

No.

There are more than enough, I can provide some examples for you.

Should it matter?

You try to defend your incorrect statements with insults (ad hominems).

If you're going to be a jackass, at least get the facts straight. I found it cute that you mention my choice of outfit, like it helps your flawed argument at all.

The NPCs aren't broken, they were just never scripted right. We've tried to script them correctly, but we've yet to find sufficient literature to teach ourselves to do so proficiently. Asking for help on the NPC Scripting board would probably result in multiple flamings along the lines of, "MAEK YUOR OWN SKRIPT 1ST D0NT AKS FOR TEHM."

Looking at it from the other end of the stick, we have done well. No other guild has managed to submit a reasonable sized guild house with half decent content, so that must stand for something.

Please do provide some examples of poor levels, and then provide some suggestions on how to improve them. "Constructive critisism" springs to mind, and it works a lot better than "Bashing."

I defend my correct statements with insults because the first punch was not thrown by me. You fight fire with fire.

If you're going to call me a jackass, at least get the facts right.

I love how I mentioned your choice of outfit. I love your response to it too. There was nothing malicious in my mentioning of it, yet you respond as though you have been attacked. Are you paranoid? Perhaps insecure?

The bottom line is, even working at a snails pace, a single person could have created more content than classic currently has, in the given time classic has had.

There is no excuse for the current lack of content really.

Oh, so Ventrue's levels are up because NPCs all work perfectly for everybody and the levels rock? Ok, makes sense.

But... Didn't you guys just justify Ventrue's levels being up because the scripts work so well? That was the impression I was given.

*cries*

Honestly though. If they aren't done, why are they up?

While some guilds have submitted reasonably sized guild houses that were half decent, currently Ventrue's guild metropolis is neither an example of a reasonable sized guild house nor of decent quality. Anything less than decent is bad, so I assume your half-decent means decent, otherwise why would you brag about having bad levels?

I've been trying to get ahold of you on the server. It was sure tough to track you down too, in player, when not getting a response to my pm. Unfortunately, you only moved once every few seconds, as if you had an anti-idling bot running so you could gain hours. Or perhaps you were ignoring me, saying words to you that you would have seen when you occasionally moved a step. If you did ignore me, then I there is no need for you to make this request.

It could be invalid if the NPCs were working properly. My house screamed predefined objects? Just because I don't put grass tiles (predefined object's name: well) on roofs (ala Ventrue) doesn't mean my levels are that bad.

Yes, you do seem to love to hear yourself talk.

Windows. Normally I only get this problem the rare time on a heavily-under-construction playerworld that wouldn't qualify for the hosted tab.

What I see wrong with classic currently ;O

Classic is supposed to be a world of player content (Thats how it gets huge) But it seems to be locked away from anything getting uploaded...

Quests, let the ****ing players make them. Overworld... let the players make it, accept submissions for anything, and work on the main path of quests, if you like a quest a player submits, put it online, and refine it and make it beautiful as time goes on. We don't want a bug free world :( We want something to do for Christ's sake. I think I rambled a bit.

For this reason, I like the ventrue guildhouse.

I was origonally going to help with NPCs back when the server was "Graal 2000" and there was some mega-conflict about my having RC or something, I think you may have given me the RC, or someone else did, but the conflict was large enough to get it removed.

Anyways to clear up the first question, No I am not Muddy.
I heard about this guy, and i talked to him before you gave him the server back then.

And in other news, you are the user who signed up right before me.

You're all so quick to point out that certain levels suck and certain scripts don't work, yet how are we supposed to remedy such things without you even mentioning the locale of said problems? Surely, you're pulling my pisser about NPCs? The only NPCs I see that don't work are the level seteffects, though I must admit I don't have access to see which scripts are working. :\

Woah, you actually logged onto Classic? It's not hard to track me down. I was idling in the most public space on the server. It's common knowledge that I idle. I've done so for years. I have an "always on" connection, so why not always stay on Graal? I find it stupid that I have to use such bots to stay online whereas Fairyland (another unixmad enterprise) allows you to work while you're away.

Which guilds? lol

Nothing to do with me. ^^ My responsibilities lie within the Catacombs and the Citadel. I am determined to improve them, but I've yet to receive anything I can call "Guidance" towards such problematic areas which cause you complain incessantly.

As for the state.pngs Shaun, I really don't know what's going on with that. Classic doesn't even use a state.png. >_<

Which is probably the issue in itself, storms custom GUI and other NPCs screwing up with each other.

Do you see state.pngs Kev?

I can't quote most of what is said here. I'll just make points as I read them.

A complaint about older levels like hond's? During that time period those levels were accepted as tiling hadn't evolved as far as it has today. Now, standards are higher, people demand to see higher quality work. Unfortunately, Ventrue doesn't fall under that category. Predefined objects he argues? Look around their guild house and you'll see if it isn't predefined, then its a rip of two predfined objects mashed into one. Take a look at the level quality. Its not great. Hell, its not even good. It may have been acceptable the three or more years ago they were promised to have it put up, but times change.

As for malfunctioning NPCs. You could have asked. You didn't need to ask here (the message boards). I am sure someone else somewhere would of been happy to answer your questions. All you needed to do was ask.

Lets talk about something else Ventrue-esque. When there levels were uploaded (by a certain staff member who is Ventrue), the levels weren't checked for illegal NPCs. Guess what? There was some. Check the throne room for signs of such a thing. They had it scripted where they could trap you inside a room, no possible exits, also disabling pause for non - Ventrue person(s). I know Massokre went over and removed some of these things, but then his rights to the Ventrue levels were removed. They still have the disabling people from leaving the level, but not sure about the anti pause anymore. I think it was removed perminantly.

I'll end with a quote by Inspiration which does justice to my original point.

[edit]Those other guilds, I can think of a few. CO and NOM made levels, but since they aren't staff they couldn't upload the work and fix the NPCs like others can.[/edit]

EEENT.
I'm sorry, that level's sacred. One cave was added ever, and that was before my time in the Nightlord Debacle. I most certainly did NOT grant permission to put something in under the AC Cloud, and in any case would not allow the cloud to be moved so much as a twip. Mostly because I knew what kinda stuff happened when I did that.

Quickly touching on the other points:
GMaps don't work with oldschool bombs and arrows on purpose, as the old bombs and arrows are so easily trainerable.
I left because I was inactive; I was inactive because I left. It hardly matters. When I tried to work on Classic I was ordered to write a press release until I lost all motivation to do anything but eat and sleep, thus I opted to give Classic to someone who would work on it, a scripting genius - Com. Who had no head for politics (much like myself) and couldn't handle the requests to hire and fire, so he gave it to Stormy.
Basically, you need a genius scripter and a genius politician, two different people, to run things. Kinda like Unixmad and Stefan - Everyone puts their hate on Unixmad, and he handles it (to varying degrees), but it takes the heat of Stefan, allowing him (for the most part) to focus on making the game work. If Stefan had to singlehandedly manage IP renewal, hardware purchases, maintenance and upkeep, backups, finances, hiring and firing webmasters, press releases, international copyright and enforcement, etcetera, we'd still be on 1.28. Which some people think would be great, but I remember when there was a year between updates, and it sucked. Graal died on the vine.

Classic's future is a paradox. We want the boring stuff worked on: We want flawless movement, oldschool bombs, and bows, and oh, let's get some signs and baddies too, maybe the old weapons again. We work on guildhouses, shrines, player houses, all the crap the server's always had too much of and will always have too much of, all the spam and filler, all the Ventrue Brothers' Content, all the stuff that wastes good developers' time with the reviewing.
Which is why Kingdoms has an automated house system. Which is laughable until you realize how much time it freed up.

I'm drifting off topic again. Back to my point: We want the old boring stuff fixed up. And not updated or personalized, but painstakingly reconstructed to the original specifications. But we don't want to do it, we want YOU to do it. And apparently most of us expect it to have been done already.
Solution? I don't know that there is one. You could part out the old quests, all the old levels one by one, then review them with a finetooth comb, work out a network of who you can trust and who you can't, spending all your time uploading for other people just to get kvetched at for it. You could nag Stefan until you expire to fix it for you, to come up with some miracle server that lets you use the oldschool stuff while you convert the new stuff, one feature at a time. You could try and hunt down the last survivors of G2K1 and steal their ClassicEsque system, but if you know how to script you'll just wind up deigning to rescript it anyway. You could block all new content until the old content's finished, or you could dump all old content and start anew with a staple gun starting with level13.graal. That is, regrettably, the most canon way of doing things; I'm told that it happened before my time, and while it makes a traveshamockery of my herculean efforts to hold together a team enough to make a cogent world map, it's The Classic Way. Delete the major works of the previous generation, then make your own to be deleted by the next in the name of Progress. I did it, you'll do it too.

That's why I'm not coming back to save you all, friends. It isn't a question of How Fast One Person Could Work, it's a question of what direction they're working in and how often they repeat themselves. It's not a hundred workers (or even ten workers) spreading out from a single point - it's three workers babbling to themselves in the dark.
Sometimes I didn't even have two other workers.

In any case, someone's bound to get angry enough to put their money where their mouth is, then things will get interesting. Whether or not Classic will survive is between the upper admins and the newer newbies.

And this is why I love when he speaks.

The three years they had for development must not have been enough time to rescript and rework the system. Granted, Classic was large, hell, they could have eliminated some of the overworld, they could have kept some old quests, and some key areas that kept Classic what it is, but they decided to delete almost everything, and move on from there. They complicated the process by including a horrible hit detection/movement/display system, something that wasn't needed at all, a bow & bomb are very easy to rescript, look at half the servers that have done so already.

We didn't need everything redone from scratch, hell, he could have removed bombs and the bow and resubmitted, and then released them at a later date. We'd have a more original Classic, we'd have something more then what we have now.

Who said Tyhm gave permission for sting's house under AC? Com013 gave permission for all of our levels to be uploaded to our specifications. We counted through the levels with him so they would fit exactly to the overworld. Accurate to a level.

And the counter arguement to that is summed up in but a few words:

"Classic by name, Classic by nature."

So what if I'm contradicting myself? Just how original and clean can you be with pics1.png? Look at Maloria - look at Unholy Nation. All of their caves use similar tiles, yet use horrid black tiles as a background and use fewer tiles, meaning less detail. Go compare. :/

As for malfunctioning NPCs, how many times must I say this? PLEASE ****ING LIST THEM SO WE CAN FIX THEM. Thanks.

Warp ring? unstick me? Go enrol at Newbie Basics 101 right now young man.

This arguement is becoming far too tiresome. This thread should have been locked days ago.

If someone would be so kind as to list all tile errors/scripting errors in a nice presentable list and send them to either myself or Bell so we can fix them to please the masses, then do so. Otherwise, stop your God damned *****ing.

:rolleyes:
The Classic I remember, evolved. The Classic you are speaking of doesn't exist. Classic was constantly evolving, and tiling got more detailed as it went. If you want examples, I'd be happy to provide you with some.

These things are for last resort, unstick me was designed for if you got stuck. You shouldn't be forced to use this. You should be able to leave an area the same way you came in (in this case, through the door). Tyhm wouldn't have accepted something like that, and neither would have any other intelligent Admin. He would have thrown the levels back, and told you to remove the NPC, and even then he'd be sceptical about uploading it. Face it. The only reason why it got online in the first place was because it didn't follow the process. Corrupted members abused their powers to put it online.

Sorry for racking your brain, but I've yet to see something intelligent to come out of your mouth. You try and make a point, but then resort to petty insults if someone manages to prove you wrong.

This Ventrue power abuse is only one of the topics we're discussing in this thread. If you have any input on Storm's management, please do so.

I don't recall Com ever being given the title of "manager", or even anything above "LAT Administrator". He certainly didn't work on it a whole lot after a while, either.

I'm glad I just got completely skipped here... :(



As for what's being discussed here... I gave up trying to get the current administration to change several months ago. They simply want to do things their way. Classic had quite a few things from before already converted to work with an NPC Server. So what did Storm do when he came in? Oh, that's right, he deleted it all. While it may be true that everything was poorly planned out and scattered in terms of what was completed, it's also true that Classic has always been that way. (In the time I've been around, anyway.) It's certainly not something that wasn't able to be worked with. Hell, I used to work with the old system scripts on Classic prior to the NPC Server. I can assure you those were far worse than anything that was ever put on Classic Dev. It's apparently better for Storm to do everything himself, rather than using the resources that were available at the time. It doesn't matter if we essentially start with a completely blank server that has nothing, which is so far from what I know as Classic it's not even funny.

Anyway, it should be obvious now why I no longer help Classic, or care to try to get things changed anymore. I just thought I'd tell things the way I see them, in case there's some information there that was previously unknown. ;)

Com didn't do anything

Storm redid all the systems, but what's the point? honestly, Classic would have been better off launching with the levels on classicdev from BEFORE Storm started over.

Despite what you may be implying, people have been able to make good levels without tile errors. The current Ventrue levels are bad: endl;

Not our job. It is the responsibility of whoever uploaded the levels to ensure that they are of top quality. There is no need for you to lose your temper.

Again, it is the responsibility of whoever uploaded the levels. If whoever uploaded the levels failed that responsibility, he/she should promptly admit uploading them as a mistake and either be more mindful in the future or resign.

Are you so immature that you need to take the time out to compose this?

/\ oh so true