Never said you couldn't meet your standards, but you said standards was quality itself.

I just personally believe people can meet their standards in more shorter way.

No I can't judge what I can not see, but I can make open assumptions on what information I do know.
I know you wrote eleven pages. I assume that is too long and can somehow be shortened.

Actually, I've gone over Chris's application, and it is of the highest quality. He goes into detail about what to do in what case for the playerworld-attacked scenario and the graphics-stolen scenario - better than I bet any of the rest of you did. If he doesn't get selected based on that, I'd demand to see the other applications. I'm that confident in what I saw.

And to Dusty - shortening it would detract from its quality.

Side note - it doesn't really seem like 11 pages when reading it.

Again, I never said it lacked quality.
I just made an assumption on what knowledge I obtained.

Shortening will not always lower the quality. It all depends on how it is written.

In this case it would. Trust me on this one :)

Maybe.

I stand to my views though.

It depends in a stylistic matter.
Some people may be able to output the same message and quality in short and compiled amounts as someone who writes in massive amounts.

Again, don't take this offensively, we all have our views and opinions.

I hope I'm not misinterpreted. It was implied that someone who I've a lot of faith in cannot handle this job, or even the application. I stated that I saw his application, that it was good, and that if he wasn't selected, that I would like to see the other applications, to see just how much better they possibly could be, as I am interested in what the selected applications look like. I meant to insult none - I just want to see what could possibly be better than Chris's. I believe it's quite possible for someone to beat Chris's application, but considering the majority of the community it is not that likely - and if someone does, then I would praise them for doing an excellent job.

Further:

Nobody should be discouraged from what I said - there are several ways to attack the questions, Chris chose one which I happen to think is good. I'm not the final authority - heck, I don't even think I'm involved in the selection process, that's the only reason I made any comment at all. It's perfectly possible to answer the questions (and answer them well) in a shorter method, approaching it from a different way.

I didn't want to have to defend anyone, but I have seen his application, and I have adequate knowledge to counter points made about his application. Had I moderator powers here, I would have deleted all of these attacking/defending application posts, as this is not something the public should be involved in. However, I don't, so I can only try to stop the argument before it gets out of hand - And, the best way to do so was to disprove it, thereby ending the discussion.

Obviously if your assumptions put me down some how and offends me something is wrong dude.

"Never said you couldn't meet your standards, but you said standards was quality itself." - Dusty

"Standards = quality" - You should be able to tell I'm implying I could meet my own standards but you went ahead to attempt to put me down more.

"I just personally believe people can meet their standards in more shorter way."

Like Tseng said, shortening it would detract from its quality.

"No I can't judge what I can not see, but I can make open assumptions on what information I do know." - Dusty

No you can't otherwise things like this start happening and the opposing party would still get offended and defensive if your response was negative. What you stated above is true but earlier you did say "I consider this constructive criticism anyways" and you're criticizing it's quality which you have not seen but assume is crap because it's 11 pages. You're criticizing something you can't even be sure about. Damn, that's kinda amusing.

"I know you wrote eleven pages."
Refer to edits.

"I assume that is too long and can somehow be shortened."
Ok, let's say if it were still eleven pages and I didn't make those edits to make life easier as this was obviously posted before you read them. You're saying here that because it's 11 pages you're assuming it can some how be shortened...that still doesn't even make sense. How can you assume that in the first place if you haven't seen it, the quality of it, what started this in the first place to make that assumption? You can't assume that unless you're trying to say I can't meet my own standards.

Anyway...like Mr.T would say "I've had enough of this jibba jabba." I'm outta here. I'm sick and tired of this, also if this same assumed to be crap quality application gets me hired I'd lay back and smile in amusement thinking of all this "constructive criticism."

Edit: I recommend we all shutup with this now. It's not getting us anywhere and Spark's original intention was to keep this thread locked.

I ended it when Chris stated he did.
So there is nothing more going to be carried on unless someone else states their opinion.

I apologize.

I never intended for my replies to be anyway offensive.
I was just posting my opinion and I guess I shouldn't have used your application as an example.

Chris, just don't bother arguing, its just going to keep dragging on and on. Better to just wait and see who Spark choses for the job, then judge whether or not your method of writing worked for better or for worse.

But it sounds like an intriguing read. :p

It was my opinion and is what these Forums are for are they not? I am not in any way trying to discourge or defame anyone. I just have an differnt opinion of how someones time should be spent if they are chosen for PWA , this would also include me if I was chosen, in my case I would spend 100% of my efforts to the PWA and nothing else on Graal. I don't feel your are giving your best if you divide your time between more than one job. If Chirz or anyone else feels they can that is their personal opinion. I haven't said it is wrong or he can't , all I said is I don't agree with it not that he or anyone else would make a bad PWA because of it. If I did what you saying I did this would have been a flame and I am not nor do I intend to flame here. I have nothing against Chriz or any other of the 15 I know of applicants. I'm sure whoever is chosen will do a fine job.

Yes. I was supposed to unstick, but opened for some reason.

No, I have nothing to do with the hiring process, or anything else......

Ah, I hear a "rumor" that you were.

lol, untrue rumor.....I didnt even see all of my husbands application, and have seen no one elses, I dont even know who all applied except those who have said they are applying on these forums :p

Well, this may or may not make sense, but the best people don't always win, even if their presentation is much better than others. For example, in my english class, there's this one girl, volunteers for everything, raises her hand for everything, and always sees that it must be nesccesary for her to state her opinion. My english teacher, instead of always picking her since she shows off the most skills, tends to actually ignore her, due to the sheer fact that she's extremely annoying. I'm not saying that Chris is annoying, I'm just saying that quality isn't everything, it is also how the person presents him or herself, at least I think that.

*Looks in mirror*
"--Chris-- equips Sunshades of Coolness (presentation+100)"

Question: Have you picked the PWA yet?
Answer: No.

Question: When will you pick the PWA?
Answer: When I have looked at all applications, and got the opinions of other people.

Question: Have you got my application?
Answer: Have you got a reply from me?

OMG I HAVE!!!

This is a general statement so no one get bent about it, it is not directed to anyone. Being the best is always a good thing but if you have a pompous attitude in a job that requires you to deal a lot with others then you are not the right person for the job. People will reject you on the basis of the way you come off at them and not by what you need to get across to them. This in itself is self-defeating and does neither you nor anyone else your trying to help any good.

The best people I have found to work with are those who have humility and not puffed up about what they can do. Really good people don't brag on what they can do they just do it without conflict. You need confidence to be a good leader I agree but to be overbearing brings reproach and conflict. The PWA are leaders, that is what the job ensues. So therefore the conduct to be a good PWA you need to be humble yet stern in whatever you need to do. This cannot be done if you have the reputation of being a horse’s rear end and indeed you are, no matter what your talents are. Like I said at the start this is my opinion and not directed at anyone.



(btw Jagen I know I didn't say it at the beginning but I agree with you.)

The forums have many purposes, that is not necessarily among them. There are (for very good reason) limits placed upon just what opinions you can express.

When pointing out flaws in your competitors, one could argue that you are promoting yourself.

Well, you have a real life job and you want to have a graal job as well - should you be forced to choose simply because you are dividing your time up, period?

If they can, it becomes not only opinion, but fact. Am I doing a poor job taking care of my own responsibilities? I've yet to get an answer to this one, and I split up my time more than many.

You're implying from your arguments that it's a bad idea to do this.

Granted you didn't come out and say that, but you raised doubts as to just how good a job Chris could do.

I'm not saying you flamed him. And, I only wish I had the same certainty you have about the people chosen doing a fine job.

I'm sure you won't disagree with me that the point of the selection process is to choose the most fit for the job. Someone could have the best presentation, and have the worst attitude, and they should not be selected. I'm certain that several people who should not be becoming PWA have applied anyway, and attempted to put together a good presentation - this, however, does not mean that they'll be becoming PWA. The person, not just the application, must be judged in order for this to be effective.

I am not that petty and since you don't agree with how a person spends their time on a Graal Job how can you say it is a "flaw"? Unless you appear to agree you cannot devote 100% to more than one job.

Quote:

Well, you have a real life job and you want to have a graal job as well - should you be forced to choose simply because you are dividing your time up, period?

We are talking about Graal and not real life and all of this is done in your "spare time" out of real life , Graal is not your life so your arguement is absurd to say the least.

Quote:

You're implying from your arguments that it's a bad idea to do this.

It was a general statement to all not directed to Chirs, but yes I do think it is a bad idea for anyone to do. If the shoe fits then it applies to whoever as my opinion and nothing more.

Quote:

Granted you didn't come out and say that, but you raised doubts as to just how good a job Chris could do.

How good a job Chris can or cannot do is not for me to judge, I have never worked with him so to do so would be unfair and untrue for me to state something like that as fact. I just stated in a "general statement" you cannot give 100% to more than one job on Graal , that is a fact. Just as you cannot give 100% to more than one job in real life. You only have so much spare time in your life to give and the job as PWA is very time consuming so in my opinion you cannot hold any other job other than the PWA if chosen. But this is a moot point since Spark has already stated this from the very beginning, if you have more than one and are chosen then you have to make a choice.

Erm, Spicy! but uhh.. Goodluck, and congrats to who gets it.

oh man, i knew i forgot something.

Oh? :confused: If you don't mind me asking, what would that have been?

Well said.
You've changed my mind on this subject.

Good luck, everyone. :cool:

first i forgot to make it,
then i forgot to send it,
then i remembered that i decided not to take every shot at a semi-powerful job that really has point :O!

lol, you are a funny guy :p

My apologies, in my hurry I missed the word "supposed" prior to the word "flaws."

But, how much time you have to play graal is different than someone else's time to play graal. Just as you can split up your time between a real life job and online stuff, someone else can split up their time between real life stuff and online stuff differently, and even further can split up their online time between a graal job and something else, like relaxing. How is that absurd?

You miss the point - if mid-post I made such a stupid and ignorant allegation as "Truck drivers are stupid", could I then push aside any response from you by saying that it was a general statement, and not specifically directed at you? Perhaps countering my point would be a viable alternative, rather than writing it off in the manner which you did?

Then why did you say that he would be unable to do a good job? If you judge a category, you are applying your judgement to each member of that category, man. You're contradicting yourself. Either you judge that all pwa members, and thus Chris (in this hypothetical situation) would need to spend 100% of their time on graal doing PWA work and if they don't do that then they're not doing a good job, OR you aren't making that judgement. Make up your mind.

See above.

And why not? I have three pretty important/involving graal jobs, and a few less important but also involving jobs - yet I accomplish each of these to the utmost, arguably better than some the individual members who've had these jobs in the past or present.

And why not, if you have the time to?

That's nice. I still want to know if it's your opinion that Chris could or not, becuase you've said both that it's your opinion that he could, and also that you're not judging him. They both can't be true - I again ask you to make up your mind.

It's still debatable. :)

1) Most of Graal's administrative jobs are reactive in nature. If a problem takes only half an hour to solve, it doesn't matter that you have another three hours of spare time to dedicate. All you need is half an hour.

2) Joe spends twelve hours per day online, Bob spends three. Joe has three jobs, Bob has one. Joe doesn't give 100% to any of his jobs, but he still dedicates more time than Bob. PWA applications shouldn't be judged on how a person's time is divided, but rather on how much time would ultimately be dedicated to PWA activities.

It should be judged on how well you can handle the PWA job, ofcourse if you havnt got time to do your job, dont tryout.
Also, how much you write isnt important, the important is how well you can define what you would do in those sitautions and look on how well he can express himself in a review.

Certainly. The thing is, alot of the job is making yourself available in case there are problems somewhere.
The PWA should be top priority. If Joe wants the job, he should be ready and willing to dedicate as much time as possible for the job, or he simply shouldn't apply.

And writing scripts for a playerworld doesn't preclude that.

Then we're brought back to Tseng's earlier argument. Should people be forced to quit real-life jobs, or stop seeing girlfriends? There's no online-time requirement mentioned in the application, and I'll point out that the head of the PWA is online for only a few hours per day (as far as I've seen, anyway). Again: The division of the time isn't relevant. All that matters is the amount of time that the person is willing to dedicate.

Taken from the first part of the application:

+You must be willing to leave all playerworld jobs you have to put your energy into this team.

+You must be able to be online for at least 7-10hours a week on your PWA duties.

What's your point? 1 hour a day fills the time slot needed.

It answered this from Kai's post:

and also people who are saying they have time for multiple jobs, I dont know if spark is including global jobs in that, but it is certainly playerworld jobs (which would, I imagine, include manager and everything below management)

Ahh okay sorry, didn't understand why you said that. Foolish me... :whatever:

It's pointless for me to post anymore opinions of mine on here , whether you agree or disagee it really doesn't matter. Spark will say when he is ready exactly what he meant and when he does no matter which way it falls it will be over and done with.