Good job Tyhm

Tyhm,
Ok I had some catching up to do on the post , after reading more of your post and others , I guess I see the point in some way , still not really clear on its point but I am clear I am in error of which version it appeared to me to be. So after reading more of the post I gather this, it is a period before me because I started somewhere in the 1.28 - 1.39 era and Staff were on so this pre-dates me and I can't imagine a PW without Staff , God that must have been horrid to try to play if this was what it was like. The levels seemed to me to be later so I am sorry for that mistake and really didn't see the purpose of what you were doing, it does now seem to be clearer on it's intent. I started on Classic in a later period and I am familer to that and of course associated my memories with that , true Classic has changed, even since then to a great degree and it is hard for me to get around now because so much is so unfamiler to me now. BUT I did not expect Classic to stand still from progress anymore than I would Npulse to stay the same and we too get fussed at about the old Npulse. As I tell Npulse players, nothing stays the same , as in life things move on and change , the same is with Graal. It is not something we can control or for any amount of time anyway , either things progress or you are left behind , wither and die. So thanks for "beating it into my head" on what you were doing. :p ;)

I think G1998 should be reopened every so often :) it was truely a treat to see how graal was around the time when I first started

In order for it to be a proper recreation, a really proper one, the levels would have to stay just like this for a full year while Stefan works on 1.28...then the levels change radically, Captain USA appears and the GOPD, Olorin forms the LAT (Gee, we could probably even get the original Olorin if he's got the temps libres...^_~), there's a sudden massive hacker crackdown, the JF fight the Pachukites, and eventually playerhouses are accepted by one person when and if he's in the mood, then that's relegated to Nightlord who takes a month to reply to such requests incredulously...
I went way off track, but perhaps the relative future of a server is important. In 1998, people believed they would be able to upload stuff, that eventually there would be staff and hacking would be outlawed. The two sides of this are that on the one hand, if that ever happens it ceases to be Graal1998 and becomes Parallel Classic - not even Graal Perpetually Five Years Behind, as the tech used on Classic would be available on G1998...on the other hand, if people know G1998 is temporary and immutable, they don't aspire to new things and a better world.

*shrugs* In a project like this there are no easy choices.

well i thought it was an interesting experiment at best
 

just for a recap, i'm Sir Pickles and i started in late 98 (v1.1 i believe, maybe 1.0)...at this time there was a struggle between those of us who had standard graal and graal gold...standard graal players could only get lv2 axes and no special items such as the lizard items, gold sword, and joltbombs...Tyhm is right about it being really corrupt back then...basically there were 5 gods (azrael, mandi, nick, pachuka, and galen i think) and they could do basically whatever they wanted...they only got these positions because they kissed unixmad and stefan's asses hehe...standard players were exploited and a lot of hacking DID take place...probably about as much as there is on g98...the main difference i've seen is that the true 98 levels from i played actually worked most of the time (you could get 20 hearts legit, as long as your flags didn't mess up)...and also, pachuka had a good thing going until the power went to his head (this happened the very first day haha, but some of the levels he made were cool) and despite all this hacking n'stuff going on not EVERYONE knew how and not everyone abused it like they do on the 98 server...but all in all i think graal1998 is a pretty accurate representation of what graal was when it was first developing into it's own program and not just a java app

Sir Pickles

X_x cheating remember me in old times with Hell Raven and Team Pie.
Something i dont want to remember,on my acount Skappa, i got banned on classic., for me being dumb not thinking.

Pie and raven were my freinds but they betrayed me.....

cheating is evil

We miss the levels and NPCs, but most of the people asked for v1.27 levels, not v1.1. And of course with staff and rules, and all the old systems that have been changed since. Also, the way you treat the old players caused many to quit Graal or play illegal servers.

Um, fairly certain 127 never existed...=_=

Wench wench wench, even if I put up the 127 levels (assuming such a pack exists) you'd complain that I, like the staff then, won't upload nor review your house, quest, bug report, etc., that you can't get through L13 with the godmoders with bloodaxes chopping you down in three hits before you make it out instead of the 1 hit in 1.1...

If old players can get "special favors" on illegal servers, riddance. I don't judge someone better based on when they claim they started. Someone's gotta be an advocate for the newbies who just wanna play a game fairly without being cut down. That was the original intent of Classic, and it hasn't changed - to get new players to play and stay in the community. It caters to newbies. Once PWs came out, this became even moreso the point of Classic, to be the Newbie Hook. As such it is more newbie oriented than any self-respecting oldbie (myself occasionally included) would like - classic old stuff is removed for balance, copyrights pulled despite being cool, newbie protection granted to stop PKing everyone as they join until they quit forever.

So yes, guilty as charged, I treat oldbies worse than newbies on Classic because that's Classic's role. Ironically.

The new players are treated like crap now-a-days by alot of the old players....they are called names, told they are stupid, berated when they ask questions, and pk'ed to death when they try to figure out what the game is all about.
Older players need to remember that you were once a new player yourself.
The new people who play this game are just as important as the old players, and deserve the same respect...it is much worse today, then it was when I first started Graal (v128 I think, maybe one update earlier)

Tyhm
I have alot of the old levels as far as 1.28- 1.39 with the levels packs and all if you want me to see if I can find where I put them.If so let me know and I will round up what I have and send them to you.

Nah.
We had a vote a while ago on Which version of Old Classic is the definitive Old Classic?, and 1.1 won. The fact that now, seeing a 1.1 server, everyone's changing their vote to this fictional 1.27 pack just goes to the "People are intentionally disagreeable" thing. If there was a 1.27 pack, as I've been told it would be in fact 1.1 - there were no versions between 1.0 and 1.28, Stefan made that leap as an homage to binary or something. 1.1 was an update to the 1.0 pack (in fact the 1.1 pack was far from complete), so 1.27 would be defined as the pack which came out immediately before 1.28 - or the 1.1 update pack.

Someday, after G1998 has bit the dust, when oldbies continue to gripe that Tyhm doesn't love them and that it was all Tyhm's fault G1998 sucked and not at all theirs for standing at the entrance with the L20 sword, or somehow the fault of those damn newbies, there will rise a new project to remake "1.27". It may even get Unixmad's approval, and its own port though likely a communally sponsored pay-host port for legal reasons. When and if that day comes, I'll let them have the batchers and files and graphics and NPCs from 1.1 to bring back the Yoshi Heads and the Lollypop Trees and so forth - but it will not stay 1.27 for long. One or more of the staffers will get a bug up their respective rectum to Change things, to Fix things, to Make things Better, and they'll start tacking on their quests...then removing stuff from other quests....then adding more complex NPCs....then the ubiquitous Boomerang Except That This One Damages...then the Weapon That Places Explosions Creatively...soon it won't be "1.27" anymore, but a parallel Classic, every bit as corrupted as the one you have now but worse off for not being as developed as Graal: The Adventure. And then a rift will develop between the party who wants to keep Improving their server and the party who doesn't think it's "Classic" anymore, and then a new "Real Authentic 127!" server will open, which will either be as authentic and therefore as doomed as G1998, or which will just become yet another twisted clone of Classic, with an admin temporarily pleased that he made things just the way they always should have been...
Then all these Classics will realize they're competing for the attention of the same very small sector of oldbies, and they'll begin campaigning to get the other Classics shut down for being inferior copies. They may even succeed, and in the end there will be only one Classic remaining, and possibly not the best one after all but the one whose staff fought dirtiest.

And time will pass.

And then someone will say it isn't very Classiclike.

I say this because I know; I say this because I have seen the cycle before. This is the prophecy of Nostratyhmus, ignore it at your peril. You cannot have an authentic classic server except with everything fixed the way you think it should be fixed; it is an oxy*****. An authentic improved replica.

that is a vicious cycle...I really hope that those things dont happen

:(

An alternate Classic eh? Sounds cool. I'd like to see what Graal Classic would have became with different staff members... Curious.

Its online now! Go and look at it. I personally think is quite cool, It brings back memories of when I started in 2.05 as you had to run past alod of trainer useres in the center of Classic.

There weren't a lot of trainer users in 2.05 :P

True, but there was an exploit with NPCs that caused havok :(

in v1.1 not everyone hacked and cheated, like your trying to say tyhm =_=; You even made a built in trainer. You might have 5-6 ppl using a "hack" then, but now EVERYONE uses it on G1998, thus taking away from the server. On Christmas, I went on and seen the server, and quested with shocked, and pked WITHOUT a trainer, as did everyone else. There was maybe 100 ppl on too. Then ppl cought wind on the "YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HACK!" and then i went on vacation. When i returned, i find the server with 10 ppl on, 1 person NOT hacking, and the rest laughing at this person. I'm shocked and appauled, you made old graal look like hackers central, but in the real world, it wasn't, it wasn't half as bad as you say it was :\

Why must everyone just insist I'm lying instead of actually saying anything condusive to conversation? When I came on you couldn't walk through L13, there were no staffers to speak of, and the conventional wisdom was if you can't get where you need to be, hack. I never went that route because I prefer to fix things for everyone, not just myself - after some time resizing gifs and acting as a human signpost, I did a stint as a tour guide before joining the LAT. That was when the GPs started cracking down circa summer 2000, and I am told that before it was much worse.
Did everyone hack? No, but a lot of people did. I could just arbitrarily assign everyone a number on logon and let 10% of the population hack but the other 90% would complain. I could keep the codes a secret from 90%, but same problem. So I let 100% hack in a controlled, in-character way to prevent 3% hacking in an uncontrolled, 2002 way. It's a calculated risk.

Jeezes. Everyone who hates 1998 or what I've done with it kindly get a consensus on what your point is - that 1998 was the wrong sample year and things were REALLY perfect in the following update, or that 1998 was the right sample year but it should have a full-time staff keeping the hackers off. See also: All my prior posts on why it's an authentic server and why everyone secretly lusts for the Disney version.

but when you make the 100% of G1998 hackers, then you don't really show them what old graal was like, you show them what you think it was like.

Isn't perception subjective to a persons own view of it at the time? And why do you say it wasn't? Think of it in terms of today , peope are the same and without rules or people to govern those rules havoc will be the rule not the exception.

thats how i remember it too... less advertisements of where to get hacks but that's the player's decisions... not anything of tyhm's doing

The whole reason why graal1998 cannot be exactly the same as it was back then, is trainer use and hacking is not an unknown thing now....I believe back then, not near as many people used trainers..but you open that up now with all the wanna-be hackers out there nowadays, this is what you get.

since no one is gunna play G1998 as it is now, why not remove it, or fix it, with the help of volenteers.

...see also all prior posts - the point isn't to draw players or be a lovely server, I could do that in my sleep. The point is to be an accurate portrayal of Graal in 1998, as much as possible, with no regard whatsoever to who likes it.

then do my first suggestion, and remove it.

Philistine. If a museum recreation showed native americans being slaughtered and dying of smallpox you'd want that torn out too, because it's not as entertaining as depictions of the rugged fronteirsmen defending their wagon train from savage red-man attacks. Truth is nothing to entertainment in your eyes. =_=

It's going down sooner or later. 1.1 will then be retired, not because it was actively sabotaged or because the admins didn't want it up but because 1.1 was not really a peachy time. Next experiment will be 1.28, if at all. Staffers will have to remain in character in addition to their usual duties. Captain USA, Vangel, etc. I'll get a team together when the opportunity presents itself, see what we can peice together of what it was like back then. It may not be as idyllic as you remember it, but the truth rarely is.

Then you need to let me be a GP of the 1.28 server. :) I was GP back then...You'd also have to find Gandarian and lots of other people if you're trying to be authentic. :)

Sir Pickles

Oh by the way, I think there WAS a 1.27, but Stefan released 1.28 like two days later...

Sir Pickles

Nah, everyone'd have to be in character like in Disneyland. That's the trouble though; I don't want to make a Disney style recreation of the past or people will start thinking it really was like that, that people all got along and there were no hackers and Level 13 was a peaceful place and la la lollypops and rainbows.

Anyone could volenteer, I know alot of ppl who played back then.

On another note: I don't really want to see ppl like Olorin, and Vangel as staff again >_<

Tough. You can't get the past back selectively. If you want to make your own version of Classic that's one thing, but don't expect me to waste any of my time trying to shape an archived version of Graal to the way you think it should have been. If I were to bring back the levels from Vangel and Olorin's day, they'd have to be allowed to take their old positions again. And if Olorin decided to replace it with Matia like he was going to once, who are you to complain? That's how it was, that was the threat, the good with the bad. If you want Darkrider's Oldschool Classic, make your own damn playerworld.

Olorin is probably to busy to play makebelieve with you Tyhm, he's doing a REAL job, helping Com work on the NPCserver, converting levels.

It has been updated.
May 20th, 2000.
I've even fixed the corrupt levels in CC, and am fixing some warps that never worked right for trivial reasons anyway.
If it hits 60 players I'll start tapping some GPs and Level Admins.

Wow, sweet

Well, you didn't update it too well I don't think...:\ I'm stuck on top of the big building that looks like a pyramid...GoH guildhouse if I remember right...it's the level above level13

Sir Pickles

Supernick's Spar Arena. I don't have a copy before that one. There's a reset coming to wipe out the hacked stats and lock the server to 217 in a flailing attempt to prevent hackers, much as the attempts were in 1.3x

So are you changing the name of the server as well?
It is pretty good tho man. Keep up the good work

Sir Pickles

if your still stuck and they ahvent taken it away you can say:

''4 levelname X Y''

to get warped

1) Of course it was taken out - it'd be a little silly to leave that in and yet reset to remove hacked stats!
2) Believe it or not, Unstick Me works on almost all servers
3) When the reset comes you'll be moved regardless.

I knew that, but I was just reporting the bug.

Sir Pickles