I agree entirely - especially since I feel the approach the majority of people are taking. I find most of these threads are very poorly considered - people do not do any research, or invest any consideration into their suggestions... if you're just going to knee-jerk some thread out what's the point? I'm still working on some personal research in regards to Graal Online's betterment, more of a hobby now than a serious project.
I don't think that's the correct approach either, although it could be a combination if player parties were interested. But I'm afraid it's still "beating a dead horse"... :frown:

so, are you saying i'm wrong about graal's problems? it'd be nice if you share with us some of that research you are doing so we can all get a better idea on how graal is doing

Lead a Graal revolt. All servers go into Staff Only. Develop nothing. Lead all players to a new game. Only then will those people upstairs realize they need to do something as well, but all will fail with everyone gone.

I don't think server owners can so easily make their servers staff only? Although, even if they could, they would just revert them. Ultimately if a group of users made a successful effort to interfere or "strong arm" Eurocenter into making a decision, I anticipate they would simply cut their losses and shut Graal Online down.

Never said you were wrong about anything you said.

I guess we're just going to have to accept that Graal will be sitting in the backseat while they attempt to make some quick change at the Appstore, or revolt and watch it all crumble.

It sucks but we've *****ed about this same crap for many years now, and typically the updates we see from the men upstairs are just quick money making attempts.

that was directed at ZH, but i do agree with you. what ever happened to the graal e-news letter? they hardly even use it anymore. what happened to graal3D? complete crash and burn, with galdor being the only real force behind it. graal has been in the backseat for awhile now, and yes we have discussed this before, but not into any type of specific direction

a revolt? it would not mean graal's demise - they still make some bank off the graal#### accounts. graal is being continued onto the iphone, so it can't be a total shut down. boycott? most people wouldn't participate, or wouldn't know how to participate. start our own graal? yea right, THAT'S a great idea :rolleyes: these are not the answers we're looking for

we're going to have to work inside the system, and force the owners to see that we are still here, still wanting to play, still wanting to make some sort of difference. no we don't care if we make them money - this about a community ten years in the running, a game a lot of us started playing as a child. i've had more fun on this game than any other, and it's crazy to sit there and let it die. but i can't develop. i cannot ****ing develop. i've tried multiple times to try and work my way through my mediocre LAT, script, and GFX skills, and it doesn't work. but i know others are out there with the abilities to make something worth while

so, i'm going to write down what i think the direction should be:

the hardest part about this plan is the first step. we must assemble a team of competent developers, ones who will follow the ideas and guidance of the manager. who these people will be is completely up to the community

second is the discussion of what the project will be. personally i'd love to see the ultimate classic-type server, perhaps with improved sword-play and a greater arrangement of (useful) NPCs. i know a lot of people love RPG and modern-type servers - it is impossible to think that this could please everyone, and it shouldn't be expected, nor is it the goal. the goal is to get new people to play and take interest

third is the discussion and community input part of the plan. the community must have stable input and constructive criticism into the project, or it isn't going to work out. a lot of us have been playing graal for five years or more - we know how graal works, and what is fun to do on graal. using that collective knowledge combined with the abilities of the developers, we can definitely come up with some awesome ideas and concepts

forth is the actual work. graal is a hobby, there won't be a deadline set for the project. what has to be included, however, is a solid stream of updates to let the community know whats up. a lot of current projects try to keep everything all secretive and surprising - this isn't what is needed nor wanted. i want to know the progress of the project, not every single step of the way, but with every major advancement, it would be nice to see that things are moving along. if we have no updates, we have no motivation, and with no motivation, we might as well all quit

fifth is testing things out, and actually buying a server. i've always felt it stupid to buy a server before anything was actually concretely made for it. you do not need a server to create GFX, or levels. testbed can be used for testing out scripts. the server should be bought once most of these aspects are created for the purpose of testing. i know that this also puts a lot of strain onto people, because they "can't save their work" or "see if it works online straight away" and "i can't see the progress other people are making" but there are ways to work around it. there is a plethora of internet chats that could substitute RC, windows meeting place has all the advantages a meeting and brain storming process could ask for, and there are so many sites to upload material to show to others that it is almost criminal. why waste the money quickly before it's really needed?

sixth would be to run test with actual players. we have to see if what was discussed is actually fun to play. i remember one incident where me, ajira, and xero were creating a crono trigger-type server, and we had this weird combat-gani that made the player look ready to fight. it looked awesome as a gani, but looked silly and stupid once implemented onto other players with customizable GFX. we had to redo it, even though it was awesome in concept. another was a boss-NPC we had created that was supposed to be hard to beat. we actually made it impossible given the structure of the combat system, which made it no fun. we had to redo the entire thing, and that's about when the server shut down from lack of funds, and we forgot to make a backup of all the data (in addition the server owner never got back onto graal, aim, and probably the internet)

last but not least is letting other players (ones who do not read the forums and had no knowledge of the project) actually play the server. we can hand select a stereotypical group of players from many server to see their reactions to it. let them run wild upon the work to really get the full server experience, and let them whine about every single insignificant problem with it. these types of players will become the core of the server, and we must adjust the server to their beck and whims - otherwise they won't play

if don't correctly, we can have a server full of hundreds of players, and that's what really makes any online video game fun - lots of players. only in this way will other people want to introduce their friends to graal to play this new awesome server that came out. only then will players try to defend graal; that it's not a child's game, that it's not a development platform, that it's not an old dead game that wads fun back in the day and is not for only those people who can't get over it and move on: it's a fun MMO with a large, tight community

of course this sounds way easier than it is, and i don't expect it to get done or even followed any time soon. but at least it's some sort of game plan

man it would be cool if CJ staff read this thread...

Just as a side note, if you want to clearly give your message to people you should give them bite size pieces first. If they want more, they can ask for it - a wall of text is instant tl;dr. :frown:

i have no sympathy for people who can't take the time to read an entire post, it's really not that hard

Hehe, people who ignore your posts aren't looking for sympathy; if you want to effectively communicate your opinions and ideas you need to cater to the audience. :p

You should really look into what you're saying yourself.

Still sore that I ignored you over that, eh? I worded it very specifically so that, if given an answer, there was no room for nonsense. :p It's not as though it's really that wordy anyways.

if they ignore my post because it's too long, then that is their problem not mine. honestly if you can't take 5 minutes to read a longer post, then you don't deserve too. the sympathy on my part would be to change my post to dumb and shorten it down so the kids can read it - and i won't

now how about we actually discuss what the thread was about. i take it you read my entire post - what are your thoughts?

Why would I be the one unhappy I was being ignored? You're the one that's looked like a fool, twice.

I would love to work on a server where a great bunch of developers worked, and would be honored to work with them, but it's not so much starting it as it is getting people away from what they are already doing.

I would love to invite everyone to work on Symphonia with me and the people there, but I'm sure Ziro would rather like it if people came and helped him on Maloria, and jerret (maybe... xD ) would love if people came and helped him on zodiac v2...

Aside from that though, if I had the money I would get another server and make it available for everyone to work upon.

Though, I don't really like the idea of another classic server XD there's only so many ways you can spar when you get bored of finding hearts.

Rpg = win. Get bored of grinding? Go do some quests, do some work for money, go pk, go level up your fishing or your mining... go explore area's, search for new holes, look for hidden items...RP....

Yes, it was getting rapidly derailed. >_<

I'd rather discuss it privately with you (you're not currently logged into your AIM SN...). Long and short of my response to your suggestion is that you have to consider a hierarchy of long term goals, and the scope of your suggestion ignores some greater priorities (or atleast from my perspective they're greater).
I'm not sure why you're consistently hostile, it almost seems arbitrary. :frown: