I'm pretty sure almost every statistic thrown in here is way off (too high)

This is the last time I am acknowledging you. Because I'm truly losing my patience with the lack of respect and maturity you have on this thread.

I never said focus solely on HD, I said that was the first challenge. If you actually go back through this entire thread and read my suggests on how to lure players in you'd retract that fkin' statement.

This is exactly why I challenged you to start reading my posts clearly, because you don't.

I've said it before and I'll say it again but I'm directing it to you; put your boxing gloves down and pick up some glasses. I'm here to help work not here to bicker. If you have something to say, be contructive not offensive.

Way to ignore the rest of my post.

Perhaps you realized your mistakes and chose to not post about them. But w/e.

When you say the 'hd is the first challenge', to me that implies doing it first. When you do something first, usually you put the other aspects on hold. Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats usually what doing something "first" means, right?

Well, yes...
but you can also do different stuff at once

EDIT: Not with our staff team tho

can someone close this thread

can someone close their mouth
(not pointing anyone out, I swear)

So this thread should probably be closed, but I wish that classic staff would try to add more people to their staff who want to be involved and set some goals. Really, its not going to hurt to try to dev on what you have and maybe just make a few other levels @ a time default HD or default events...

Classic Dev is really dry atm. There's pretty much no active scripters who aren't management/administration.

:[

If someone is willing to help me learn GS2, I would love to get to the point where I could help make a positive influence on Classic. There is too much talking going on and not enough people stepping up. Or people who are willing to step up, but only if certain conditions are met. It's ridiculous. If you love the server, realize that there isn't much hope of turning around in where it now (system wise), and do your best to improve upon what is currently there.

Oh, I forgot about Sam!

Well, the problem is that a lot of people loved what it was, not what it has become and has no hope of turning into. When you're working AWAY from what you loved about it, there's no motivation.

What people loved about Classic was the community. Let's not kid ourselves by thinking we loved the old HD and levels, because that's just not the case. While, I for one, would love to see the old HD return, it's pretty apparent that it's just not going to happen so it's time to suck it up and move on. It's not happening.

The only way to get the community back is by continuing to offer ideas that the administration can actually complete and add to the server, promoting Graal in general, and Classic more specifically.

OH, and I don't know, maybe by actually playing the server. It's kind of pathetic to see all the people in this thread on other servers for the most part. Blame the HD all you want for that, too. It's the cool thing to do.

That may be true for you. The people were part of it, but how significant a part is dependent on the person you're talking to. Just because you see them as the dominant factor in what made the server great doesn't mean that has to be the case for everyone else.


It's kind of pathetic to see development go in random directions at all times regardless of who's playing. You're not offering a magical solution, sorry.

What people liked was not exclusive to one thing or the other. When I used to play many people left and came, so the community was always changing. Appeal to a server is usually always a combination of this and that, here and there. Sometimes one provides the hook and the other provides the catch. It's not as simple as, "community = win!".

If people aren't playing, it's for a reason, no? Maybe it's because they're unhappy with the server, so why should they play?

That statement applies to more people than just me, whether anyone else wants to take off their nostalgia goggles and admit it is up to them. The problem here is more than HD and default movement. This problem is Graal-wide. If all the people who loved 'classic'-type servers because of HD and movement, why is UN struggling right now?

Most people just don't enjoy playing Graal period. And it has nothing to do with HD, it has to do with content and enjoyability. No one is offering anything new and it's pretty stagnant development-wise across the board. Granted, some people really dislike the HD on Classic, so they're not going to enjoy any content that it produces because of their bias towards the system, justified or not.


You're right. It's rough to watch an administration go in a million different directions at once and accomplish nothing. But, I'd say it's just about as pathetic to see people cry about the lack of content and offer nothing more than, "Bring back old levels!" and "This HD sucks! Bring back the old one!". That is what this is all resorted to and it's going to continue being a stalemate until both sides realize that there is a certain amount of give and take that needs to happen.

For me personally, I'm willing to adapt to the HD and movement if the administration is willing to put out new content and make an attempt at listening to players requests (the feasible ones at least).

But hey, what do I know? It seems like the way you guys have been handling this has worked so well... :rolleyes:

But the fact remains that there was a community there. And you can not deny that a server with a higher populous is not attractive to old and new players alike. I did not say that the end all comes and goes with the community, but it plays a huge part in why I played Classic after other servers started appearing and is what keeps me coming back to Graal even today. I think it's fair to say that I'm not the only one who feels this way. But by no means am I calling the community the end all. I'm simply stating that people who use the HD as their main reason why Classic is not 'Classic' is just wrong, and fixing the HD will not fix Classic.

I agree. Classic is stagnant, development is at a crawl - at best, and there isn't a lot to offer in terms of game play. However, can you really expect management to listen to players who don't frequent their server? I'd be interested to see how many people would actually play on Classic if the HD was default. My guess is that it wouldn't make much of a difference as Classic's problems extend far beyond the HD and movement issues.

I stopped bothering when it became apparent I wasn't going to beat Sardon's Boss Monstar, and I wouldn't be allowed to do anything else until I did. Baddy Hit Detection had a lot to do with it, as did the absence of other quests ramping up in difficulty; it was pretty much "here's a nothing quest, and now here's a quest where you die arbitrarily and need to do a perfect run to stand a chance."
Seriously. The shootball scripts would just decide that when they hit anything, to hurt the player. Pretty sure Thor fixed them to some degree, but still, not okay. Plus I still take issue with CLASSIC deciding to arbitrarily double the HP of all the DEFAULT BADDIES. I can handle bad HD when there's a workaround or when the quest wasn't that hard to begin with, but when it's "you get hit from across the room because it's a little laggy, your hits don't register half the time, and it takes thirty seconds of not getting arbirarily hit to set up a shot, also there's a trick to defeating the boss that requires realizing that one of your attacks (that doesn't connect most of the time) is the only thing that does damage"....man, screw that.

Staff should listen to anyone who puts out a compelling and constructive argument, regardless of if they're frequent players or not. Players should not have to force themselves to play a server they don't enjoy just to get an opinion that matters.

Fair enough. But from what I can see, staff have put out a compelling and constructive argument against the proposal. All we are doing is beating this topic to death. As long as Storm is the manager, the HD is staying, the way I see it. I don't care for the system, but nothing is changing in that regard. So why as players are we still focusing on this instead of throwing out ideas that will actually be considered and can be implemented?

Their only argument is that it'll be too much work. Then some say that it will eventually be replaced with default, but they're willing to continue adding content that uses custom, which will eventually mean more work for them because they will have to replace all the content using the custom system now, AND whatever they add from hereon out.

I don't see this custom system as something that will last Classics lifetime, so eventually it will be replaced with another custom system or default or something, but I don't think it's going to be around forever. Classic as seen countless custom systems, conversion from pre-NPC server to NPC-server. Conversion from clientside to serverside. Conversion from regular maps to gmap. And what seems to be 5 years of just fiddling with systems rather than content, going from this system to the next. I don't think it's as much work, or going to be that huge of a set-back as they make it out to be.

Honestly, I gave up trying, but I still hope they will eventually convert to default, or at least a custom system that emulates it instead of thinking they can do it better.

Their only argument, and the only one they need, is that it'll be far too much work for the lackluster staff we currently have, not to mention it'd take months of time to complete.

Would classic survive those several months with minimal changes while this project is being worked on? It's debatable, but I'd guess no. Regardless, IMO we should simply try to improve things as much as possible and put this HD project on hold until our staff team is built up.

Is this the best course of action? Like everything else, thats debatable. But whether you agree or not, the people in charge, for whatever reason, aren't simply going to bend to every foreign whim, whether they played 8 years ago or not.

Hiring more lackluster staff is going to make things worse, which is all they seem to be doing.

I'm sick and tired of you and your friends slandering development staff who you see fit not into your eyes. Or actually anyone who gives their honest effort into helping Classic. You want Classic to release content, but for anybody to step up to the plate, that isn't 'quality' to your eyes, you make public and private insults at them, when they have not even released anything yet.(Or for recent cases, have only had their RC for 5 minutes). I've told the same thing to Luda when he decided to be a douchebag to me. Graal was made upon the basis of player-created content. Nothing has to be picture perfect, but with the right idea and effort is what's needed. The greatly wanted old levels didn't have the best designs to them when I looked through them, but I will assume that it was the gameplay which was more over appreciated.

You make your accusations off of unfinished content that is not supposed to be shown to non staff members, which imposes Staff transgressions.

If you want to help, I suggest shutting up. Maybe things might get released faster that way. I don't care if I am staff and telling you this. The people you call quality are the most disrespectful people ever. You actually used to not be an ass before.

I'm not here to argue, nor will I probably reply back, but I don't understand why you continue to play Classic if this is how you feel about current and future development. I've always wondered this in fact.

I didn't even need to write out a reply. This is a server revival and what I outlined in my quoted text has a heightened effect with increased hirings of scrubby and talentless staff. Good luck getting real developers to work alongside that.. y'know.. the level of skill that Classic actually needs for a revival. There isn't much time left for this either.

I think the problem is less of Classic hiring "scrubby and talentless" staff and more of the talented developers not stepping up and working for Classic. This could be for multiple reasons, but if they're hiring "scrubs", they're obviously desperate for help. So where are the "talented developers"?

Would you work on a server if you believed that you were pulling the team? Would you work on a server if you knew that the content that the other developers were making would need to be remade? Would you work on a server if you knew that the release of content that the crappy developers were making was punching its reputation further into the ground? How about working on a server where you feel you're working by yourself? Doesn't seem like a very nice setting to me.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...3&postcount=11

:asleep::asleep::asleep::asleep::asleep::asleep:

Yes, because everything you wrote was made of facts right?

I don't get it. SOMEONE has to step up and be the person to break the cycle. I WOULD work if I felt I was pulling the team. I WOULD remake content that needed to be remade. However, if I were in this position, I would be doing my best to help the other Devs so that this wasn't an issue. I WOULD be the person trying to turn the ship around instead of being a person standing by watching it sink. If I had to work or feel like I'm by myself, I would do it.

Sometimes you have to put yourself aside and if you care about something as much as all these people who are complaining about Classic are, why is NO ONE willing to be the person responsible for turning this around? How is anything going to change if no one is willing to put the effort, and be a consistent positive influence in development?

I'm not pointing anyone out here, but someone has to be willing to step up who is fed up with all this. Otherwise, we'll be in this thread debating what SHOULD be done with Classic in 5 years.

Good post and info there. But it still doesn't change the fact that the cycle needs to be broken.

I always knew that Classic's Highlight would be Classics downfall.

I've always said everything strongly depends on the eye of the beholder. I would also believe no 'quality' developers come to Classic because it's not as popular as the other servers and hasn't been for years, and that there isn't many benefits for graal developing.

Well said, Nelm.

edit:I also have to add that it's insulting to fix someone else's work to what you think of 'quality' without their consent. If the work isn't of expectations, it won't be used. That's not hard to understand.

One look at the complete lack of organization and thought put into the systems and you'll soon realize that it is simply NOT worth the effort. Rebuilding them is a possibility, but you can't do that when Storm is supposedly doing that himself. You'll just be making something that might (probably won't*) get replaced, potentially wasting your time. This, among some personal reasons, is why I haven't been doing it already.

So the question has to be asked, "Why did the PWA not feel the need to replace Storm?"

Maybe they did. The problem is that any alternative is questionably better. I guess taking that chance might have been worth it though.

Classic has been through this sort of thing many times before(like I stated in my post) and never really died.

Well, I'm not sure that the results could be much worse. However, this is not a 'Fire Storm' thread, so I'll leave this conversation for a different time.

Because scripting communications between serverside and clientside scripting is a pain in the butt, and few other people want to do it.

Heh. Here's a thought -
Whoever can throw together a system that works better (even on the test server), I'll throw my weight behind them for replacing Storm.

I'd sure do it if my focus wasn't on a different project. :( Although, this isn't any guarantee of non-wasted work.

You never know though. Even if Classic doesn't use a better Classic system, it's bound to be good for other servers.

I wouldn't be interested in another server unless it was an allowed Classic remake.