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-   -   Bring back Classic levels and hit detection? (https://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85415)

DarkCloud_PK 05-09-2009 10:04 PM
I think it was planned mostly in consideration for what could have been, and not what the server is now.
If you remember GTA, Tyhm also blocked off newbies to a point because he absolutely hated the idea of them getting butchered by established PKers in 2 shots. Then newbie saint came and blah blah.
I think the idea is that the new players can't really experience the other aspects of the game anyway until they do those quests etc.
that problem would be more visible if classic had not started people off 6 and 2.
it will begin to rear itself as classic questing allows for more health and sword levels.

contego 05-09-2009 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK (Post 1490523)
if you guys think that 30/40 minutes of forced gameplay is bad, i don't know how you would react to having things be like old GTA where you had to spend several hours to become viable in any PvP action because you had to quest up a decent amount of hearts and a lizard sword.
nonetheless, I'll explore the option of allowing to skip some stuff.
key word is explore.
DC come on, you're clearly Dev Admin - respect other's opinions of what Graal is to them. Graal isn't the same game for everyone because it has so many faces.

Let's tie in an incentive for those who want to do the tutorial. Again, develop some attractive economy item and use one as a bonus for doing the tutorial.

DustyPorViva 05-09-2009 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK (Post 1490523)
if you guys think that 30/40 minutes of forced gameplay is bad, i don't know how you would react to having things be like old GTA where you had to spend several hours to become viable in any PvP action because you had to quest up a decent amount of hearts and a lizard sword.
nonetheless, I'll explore the option of allowing to skip some stuff.
key word is explore.
Also I just noticed this. I don't know how comparing GTA and questing up hearts to be competitive is anywhere close to linear gameplay. Just like in Zelda(or any RPG for that matter), I can CHOOSE to strengthen my player by questing and such, to make my game easier for me. This gives me a sense of freedom, even if my next steps is the same regardless. Being able to travel by myself from point A to point B and choose to partake in a quest gives a huge feeling of freedom, even if in actuality it is just an illusion.

However, ripping the player from one quest to the other with no actual choice or ability to walk from one point to another just screams a 'prisoner of gameplay', and with a low playercount and hardly no new players the player gets lonely... there's no sense of community or playerbase until they are done with the quests(if they get done).

Regardless, I think Classic would benefit from a sandbox-type tutorial. Lots of signs saying how to function(because new players will ALWAYS read signs. It's just in their nature in a game), toys to let the players test out their newfound skills like blocks, pots and bushes and maybe a few baddies. And finally, the ability to leave when they want rather than if they complete anything.

Afterwards, quests should be introduced, but not forced. I'm not sure how this can be done, maybe a marker on the map for a destination so the player never gets lost? I dunno, I just like the ability to choose when to quest.

DarkCloud_PK 05-09-2009 10:48 PM
Well in GTA, while it wasn't directly forced, you pretty much had to do a boatload of quests to be viable in events, PK, or sparring.
Back then, there was no scripting made to allow GCs to even players out, or sparring zones to even players out, etc etc.
Sure, you could sit around and have 6 hearts and a level 1 sword or some other combonation of numbers of your choosing, but if you didn't have 12/3, there wasn't really much you could do besides the events that didnt account combat, or bowling.

DustyPorViva 05-09-2009 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK (Post 1490543)
Well in GTA, while it wasn't directly forced, you pretty much had to do a boatload of quests to be viable in events, PK, or sparring.
Back then, there was no scripting made to allow GCs to even players out, or sparring zones to even players out, etc etc.
Sure, you could sit around and have 6 hearts and a level 1 sword or some other combonation of numbers of your choosing, but if you didn't have 12/3, there wasn't really much you could do besides the events that didnt account combat, or bowling.
It's a totally different feeling, though. One is the feeling of being underpowered, and probably a motivation to get better. The other(forced quests like it is currently) is the feeling of being MADE to do something against your will, even if the outcome is you being stronger.

GTA did, however block off a huge chunk of the overworld and pretty much make the players do quests in a linear way regardless. I wasn't a huge fan of GTA's approach either. I'm just really turned off when I log on a server and only 2/3 levels of the overworld is open to me -- basically a single path from where I am to where I have to go. At least enough of the overworld should be open to not feel enclosed in a cage and broken off from the rest of the world. I just prefer an open-world exploration do what I want when I want kind of thing and I think linear gameplay is being phased out fast in the gameworld as it's definitely something always brought up when reviewing a game.

BlackSolider 05-09-2009 11:32 PM
The difference between RPG games (Oblivion, fallout3, final fantasy, etc.) and online games is that rpg games are single player: your character level doesn't prohibit you from competing in the game, it just makes certain parts much harder until you character is at a higher level.

The thing about classic is that since everyone who plays has 8 hp, anyone new to the server that doesn't do the questing immediately is at a severe disadvantage in many aspects of our server. The main excuse people come up with is "well GCs can just give them HP in events, and people can drop hp when they spar". Really? It's pretty annoying to have to click on people 4 times every time they do something, and this doesn't count events like CTF where they always have 6 hp, which is a massive handicap for that team.

I've always believed that if you truly plan on playing a server, you need to do the quests ASAP to make sure you're at a competitive level. Whether we should force people to do them or not doesn't matter to me, but why not knock them out of the way early? Maybe people would still do them early on, but perhaps they don't want to be "forced" to do them.

ffcmike 05-09-2009 11:33 PM
The Tutorial and Intro can be skipped, for those that aren't aware you could try logging onto a guest account assuming you haven't logged on with one already.
Also the Castle Quest has only ever been forced for trial accounts.

DustyPorViva 05-09-2009 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSolider (Post 1490550)
The difference between RPG games (Oblivion, fallout3, final fantasy, etc.) and online games is that rpg games are single player: your character level doesn't prohibit you from competing in the game, it just makes certain parts much harder until you character is at a higher level.
In RPG's your character level CAN prohibit you from beating bosses and such. However this doesn't always apply to just RPG's. Like I said, Zeld ais a very good example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSolider (Post 1490550)
I've always believed that if you truly plan on playing a server, you need to do the quests ASAP to make sure you're at a competitive level. Whether we should force people to do them or not doesn't matter to me, but why not knock them out of the way early? Maybe people would still do them early on, but perhaps they don't want to be "forced" to do them.
That's the thing, you don't NEED to do anything. They can if they WANT to, is usually how players like it. Allow players to knock them out early, just don't force them to knock them out early.

jacob_bald6225 05-11-2009 12:21 AM
It really is ****ing frustrating being a player on Classic. NOTHING worthwhile has been added to the server in FIVE YEARS. Everyone for FIVE YEARS has wanted the old levels from one generation or another. The people in charge for FIVE YEARS have said you can't please everyone with a level pack so it never goes there. But instead, for FIVE YEARS they have pleased nobody.

FIVE YEARS of avoiding the old content and building ****ing 'systems' so that we can get better content. I truly believe nothing will ever come of Classic.

Everyone involved in the development of the server for the last FIVE YEARS are complete and undeniable failures and do not deserve to be in charge of such great content-- it would better offline.


Edit: I quit and urge anyone else with any common sense left to abandon ship. If you need me im on AIM
(DESTROYER STROYER is my aim)






Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo (Post 1036883)
Right. I became Classic Manager in April 2004, so thats 8 to 9 months ago, and straight away myself and Selflon started working on the NPC server trying to continue where Tyhm had left it. The problem was we had no kind of working movement for the server, and stuff like bombs and bows were just screwed.

Nothing was working properly, and by converting the existing classic it just meant that it was getting buggier by the day. After just over amonth it was decided that it was too messy/broken to continue, and so the server was wiped clean. This was about 7 months ago now. With a fresh server, I set about touching up a few of the main levels and getting asmall overworld up so that I had room top develop on. At this point I also made it so normal players could log on, thus providing me with feedback.

Over the next few months, I worked on various script and behind the scenes stuff such as totally rescripting the movement, and adding various chat based command, and reworking the Staff Tool's, basically ensuring that a tight framework was ready, making it easy for us to develop for, allowing to develop quests and the like a lot fast that we could before wiping.

At the start of October (3 months ago), I moved to university, and the ports for Graal are blocked here, so I can only get on from one of the copmputing labs (although they are sorting our the ports for me). This meant I couldn't really work during this time. In the 3 weeks I was home for christmas I worked like a small demigod to get the NPC Server ready to a playable state.

Now when you ask me why theres little in the way of content, realize that I've not had the 3 years of development time you all seem to think I've had. Also realise that classic was at a point where it simply no longer represented the history of graal, thats another reason why the content is gone. I'm by no means lazy, so please, be patient with me.

BlackSolider 05-11-2009 01:15 AM
Do you want some cheese with that whine?

jacob_bald6225 05-11-2009 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo (Post 1040226)
I like to prefer the term a switch of priorities.

If we'd had more time we'd have done loadsa quests n stuff, but alas we didn't I dont think the server was not ready to go up, but I think it could be a lot more complete. Hence, I dont think it was rushed.
:\

MysticX2X 05-11-2009 02:40 AM
Well we stand corrected on the forced graal castle quest, but I still think OSL should be changed to a more centralized location.

jacob_bald6225 05-11-2009 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1490774)
but I still think OSL should be changed to a more centralized location.
Moving the starting point will not fix anything.

-Ramirez- 05-11-2009 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob_bald6225 (Post 1490771)
:\
I think you mean "^^". That makes posts good.

MysticX2X 05-11-2009 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob_bald6225 (Post 1490775)
Moving the starting point will not fix anything.
Yes it will.

xnervNATx 05-11-2009 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1490781)
Yes it will.
wtf no its wont , having the osl in the bank (exemple) will not fix anything at all

MysticX2X 05-11-2009 03:39 AM
Actually, I change my mind. This is all completely opinionated. I feel as it will make a difference. Whether you think it will or not is an opinion.

-Albus 05-11-2009 03:42 AM
How would changing the OSL magically attract more players? To be honest, that's got to be one of the dumbest comments made in this whole thread. What Classic really needs is content that is not related to GCs.

MysticX2X 05-11-2009 03:44 AM
Hmmm, I don't recall saying changing the OSL would "magically attract players". Hell I recall myself just saying it would be better just to move it there. Changing the OSL would make players feel as there actually is life around them on the server.

I'm not sure how being boarded up in brothers house or tule village start house is any better, but do explain.

And also, Classic is working on content, so there is no debate there.

-Albus 05-11-2009 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1490788)
Hmmm, I don't recall saying changing the OSL would "magically attract players". Hell I recall myself just saying it would be better just to move it there. Changing the OSL would make players feel as there actually is life around them on the server.

I'm not sure how being boarded up in brothers house or tule village start house is any better, but do explain.

And also, Classic is working on content, so there is no debate there.
Yes, they've been working on content for how long now?

MysticX2X 05-11-2009 03:52 AM
Dev may be slow, but Content has been released periodically. However, that depends on your perspective of content.

-Albus 05-11-2009 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1490791)
Dev may be slow, but Content has been released periodically. However, that depends on your perspective of content.
Any content that doesn't relate to GC?

Terazel Tenjin 05-11-2009 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob_bald6225 (Post 1490759)
It really is ****ing frustrating being a player on Classic. NOTHING worthwhile has been added to the server in FIVE YEARS. Everyone for FIVE YEARS has wanted the old levels from one generation or another. The people in charge for FIVE YEARS have said you can't please everyone with a level pack so it never goes there. But instead, for FIVE YEARS they have pleased nobody.

FIVE YEARS of avoiding the old content and building ****ing 'systems' so that we can get better content. I truly believe nothing will ever come of Classic.

Everyone involved in the development of the server for the last FIVE YEARS are complete and undeniable failures and do not deserve to be in charge of such great content-- it would better offline.


Edit: I quit and urge anyone else with any common sense left to abandon ship. If you need me im on AIM
(DESTROYER STROYER is my aim)
Clearly, Classic continues to be a failure solely due to the fact that DC was not promoted to Manager.

Also, not that I think the revised Nations plan would have completely saved the server (even if it wasn't snuffed by the Dev Admin and Manager of the time; different Dev Admin but same Manager!), but it would have provided a decent breathing room to develop other things once the system was in place and the system became mostly player-driven/self-autonomous. But then again, five years is a lot of "breathing space" as well, same with the Mario Party theme the server seems to have completely leaned on since the server essentially suffered the classic case of "Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians" to pursue a solid objective for the server.

Is Classic up to standard as a server compared to all other "Classic" servers online? If not, why is it still open?

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Ramirez- (Post 1490777)
I think you mean "^^". That makes posts good.
^^

-Albus 05-11-2009 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terazel Tenjin (Post 1490797)
Is Classic up to standard as a server compared to all other "Classic" servers online? If not, why is it still open?
No, it is not up to standards. Why it's still open remains a mystery.

Terazel Tenjin 05-11-2009 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Albus (Post 1490799)
No, it is not up to standards. Why it's still open remains a mystery.
I think that's an exciting question for the PWA team!

contego 05-11-2009 05:59 AM
Terazel Tenjin<3. Long time old man. :p

Tyhm 05-11-2009 07:44 AM
It's not the progenitor.
It's not the standard.
It's not the default.
It's not Official.

It's just kinda subpar. Which is too bad, I bloody love the server I left behind when I got a job...

Luda 05-11-2009 08:52 AM
^^

DutchGuy 05-11-2009 01:48 PM
This thread started May 3th and is still hot for answers while we are exactly 1 week furthur.
Again a week of no development. Again a week of many ideas on a forum. The ignorance of the staff is the biggest problem. They are not open for ideas because if so, I think atleast something was added along time ago. While we keep talking about how classic should develope, I think it's time we should discuss how to leave classic. Just pull the plug out?

unknown 05-11-2009 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchGuy (Post 1490824)
This thread started May 3th and is still hot for answers while we are exactly 1 week furthur.
Again a week of no development. Again a week of many ideas on a forum. The ignorance of the staff is the biggest problem. They are not open for ideas because if so, I think atleast something was added along time ago. While we keep talking about how classic should develope, I think it's time we should discuss how to leave classic. Just pull the plug out?
I agree, if the staff can't even take into consideration what players want, and won't test anything to benefit their player count, then pull the plug. All the current "DEAD" classic servers should be taken down. There is no future chance for them, classic is the only one with potential, sadly the staff don't seem to care. All these dead servers do is steal a healthy player count from active servers and hold their staff hostage to waste time. IMO Classic is the only server that could make a come back, NP and Delt don't stand a chance.

Rufus 05-11-2009 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown (Post 1490834)
IMO Classic is the only server that could make a come back, NP and Delt don't stand a chance.
Lmao.

xnervNATx 05-11-2009 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown (Post 1490834)
I agree, if the staff can't even take into consideration what players want, and won't test anything to benefit their player count, then pull the plug.
one question.

why are you still here THEN wtf? and ill repeat myself again(like i said to kill)
staff are not obligated to do what players ask or else players would rules to server without being a staff, if you really want something to happend, WAIT.

unknown 05-11-2009 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnervNATx (Post 1490842)
one question.

why are you still here THEN wtf? and ill repeat myself again(like i said to kill)
staff are not obligated to do what players ask or else players would rules to server without being a staff, if you really want something to happend, WAIT.
yeah, well if they actually care for the server and care for their jobs, they would listen to the players.

I don't care if they are obligated or not, see the bigger picture and open your eyes before you open your mouth.

xnervNATx 05-11-2009 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown (Post 1490907)
yeah, well if they actually care for the server and care for their jobs, they would listen to the players.

I don't care if they are obligated or not, see the bigger picture and open your eyes before you open your mouth.

if u read my post again you will notice i did not write "to listen" but "TO DO" what players players tell them to do.

MysticX2X 05-11-2009 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchGuy (Post 1490824)
This thread started May 3th and is still hot for answers while we are exactly 1 week furthur.
Again a week of no development. Again a week of many ideas on a forum. The ignorance of the staff is the biggest problem. They are not open for ideas because if so, I think atleast something was added along time ago. While we keep talking about how classic should develope, I think it's time we should discuss how to leave classic. Just pull the plug out?
Probably because you're very ignorant to believe that taking a year of development to restore old levels will make Classic better than what can already done if the same willpower was used on newer content.

fa12 05-12-2009 02:55 AM
What people need are hugs.

jacob_bald6225 05-12-2009 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1490928)
Probably because you're very ignorant to believe that taking a year of development to restore old levels will make Classic better than what can already done if the same willpower was used on newer content.
If it was done when it should have we might have 4 years of progress instead of movement systems and disappointment.

Corp1 05-12-2009 05:01 AM
How long b4 decent hit detection returns to classic (not some gimmick special room or toggle crap)?

BlackSolider 05-12-2009 01:33 PM
Depends how many people, whether they currently play Classic or not, decide to dedicate some time and work on the massive project.

MysticX2X 05-12-2009 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob_bald6225 (Post 1491025)
If it was done when it should have we might have 4 years of progress instead of movement systems and disappointment.
I'm not sure about all the stuff that happened in the past and the reasoning behind it, but I have a fairly good idea on what can and should be done right now for Classic. There might of been errors done in the past (Hell every server has em), but the focus should be on current.


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